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Nissan Deltawing: The Future of Motorsport?


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#1 Lazy

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 11:47

Nissan Deltawing

Half the weight, half the fuel consumption, half the tyre consumption.

Formula 1 could easily move in this direction if this prototype is successful.

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#2 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 11:51

They won't, it's too big a change.

We'll probably see it integrated into sportscars as it's own class. I think it'd be an ideal LMP2 replacement.

#3 King Six

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 11:51

There's already been some discussion on this in the Le Mans thread as they practiced with it a few days ago, most people here are quite upset about it as they say it looks silly, I'm looking forward to seeing how it does in the race and I think it's good that motorsport is trying out new things, I think they're targeting LMP2 pace but their practice times weren't that impressive, but still it's a completely new concept so expect the times to increase all the time.

http://www.autoblog....aps-at-le-mans/
http://www.lemans.or...os-gallery.html

#4 krapmeister

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 11:52

Aesthetically speaking, I am not looking forward to the future...

#5 Lazy

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 11:57

Aesthetically speaking, I am not looking forward to the future...


If it goes fast, it will look good.

I thinks it's an interesting concept, practice times not bad at all for a 1.6 and a new concept.

#6 Xpat

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 11:58

Aesthetically speaking, I am not looking forward to the future...


Have you had a good look at today's car?

#7 GSiebert

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 12:03

Aesthetically speaking, I am not looking forward to the future...


Looks better than the current F1s (nose and wings proportions :mad:) and LMPs (sharkfin :mad: ) imo.

#8 krapmeister

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 12:05

It's an interesting concept and if it is quick I will appreciate it's speed, but it isn't going to make me like the way it looks... :p

#9 King Six

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 12:06

To really see what this car is worth we'll have to wait and see what class its pace fits into, then once the race is over (hopefully it lasts the distance) you compare the total fuel it used vs its competitors (pace-wise) and then we'll see its real worth. I really do hope it does well, and then they can beef it up for another run next year.

Does the ACO limit the total amount of fuel cars can use for the entire 24 hour race? Like people said this is the way forward for motorsports series to cause innovation in effeciency and higher adoption of hybrid technologies instead of a more top down approach with engine regulations etc..

#10 ArnageWRC

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 12:10

To really see what this car is worth we'll have to wait and see what class its pace fits into, then once the race is over (hopefully it lasts the distance) you compare the total fuel it used vs its competitors (pace-wise) and then we'll see its real worth. I really do hope it does well, and then they can beef it up for another run next year.

Does the ACO limit the total amount of fuel cars can use for the entire 24 hour race? Like people said this is the way forward for motorsports series to cause innovation in effeciency and higher adoption of hybrid technologies instead of a more top down approach with engine regulations etc..


It is what 'Garage 56' is all about. Whatever you think about it, it's good that Sportscars encourages this type of thinking.


#11 Andrew Hope

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 12:10

It really is one of the ugliest cars I've ever seen, of any kind. I just can't get interested about it - it's too hideous. I read about the advancements and the technology and for a second, I think it's a great idea, and then I scroll down a little further and see a picture of it and I end up hoping the Deltawing crashes and burns, and almost literally.

#12 Snic

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 12:13

Aesthetically speaking, I am not looking forward to the future...


I actually quite like it compared to some of the other monstrosities at Le Mans and it hasn't even had time to grow on me yet! However I get the feeling it's a car that looks best in black..


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(Couldn't resist ): )


#13 krapmeister

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 12:13

It really is one of the ugliest cars I've ever seen, of any kind. I just can't get interested about it - it's too hideous. I read about the advancements and the technology and for a second, I think it's a great idea, and then I scroll down a little further and see a picture of it and I end up hoping the Deltawing crashes and burns, and almost literally.


:lol:

Re: pics above - it looks like a Land Speed Record car had it's way with the DW12 and this was the result...

Edited by krapmeister, 05 June 2012 - 12:15.


#14 Mr Plug

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 12:24

"Look Rodders," said Del Boy as he surveyed the Trotters Independent Traders Reliant Regal." I know it's failed its MOT, but all we have to do is cut the bodywork around a bit, spray it black, and one of them F1 or La Mons yuppies is sure to buy it.....and then we're cushty!"'

#15 ensign14

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 12:33

They should enter it in the sidecar world championship...

#16 undersquare

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 12:34

Luddites Ahoy lol.

I love it! New and different, I really hope it does well.

#17 TheWilliamzer

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 12:39

Looks like that blue car Mr. Bean keeps bumpin into... :drunk:

Edited by TheWilliamzer, 05 June 2012 - 12:40.


#18 krapmeister

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 12:41

Luddites Ahoy lol.

I love it! New and different, I really hope it does well.


I can appreciate the thought and engineering behind it, and if it does as well as it is supposed to then I will be impressed - but just because I am not a fan of it's appearance doesn't make me a luddite...

#19 W154

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 12:50

If it turns out to be a winner, it will look great! Can't see how it can be called a sports car when most of the rear wheels are uncovered, in breach of sports car requirements.

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#20 Lazy

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 12:54

Your Google driven private car could look a bit like that in 10-20 years time :)

#21 Haribo

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 12:54

They won't, it's too big a change.

We'll probably see it integrated into sportscars as it's own class. I think it'd be an ideal LMP2 replacement.


I think they want to run it in the American Le Mans Series next year


#22 Fastcake

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 12:59

It's a very interesting project and I'm going to follow how it does now and in the future, but it doesn't stop it looking utterly awful. I do hope they think of some better designs for the future.

#23 blackhand2010

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 13:00

Despite it's, ummmm, "unique" looks, I like it.
And frankly, it's nice to see someone coming up with something truly innovative for motorsports as opposed to the constant retro-fitting to appear shiny, new and "green", that most major series seem to be guilty of at the mo.

#24 undersquare

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 13:00

I can appreciate the thought and engineering behind it, and if it does as well as it is supposed to then I will be impressed - but just because I am not a fan of it's appearance doesn't make me a luddite...

Well you might not like it quite legitimately of course. I'm just referring to the broad kneejerk reactions that OHHH it's too different and looks <gasp> unfamiliar.

For me I hate things all to be the same. And if it can be competitive with 300 bhp then kudos to them, and if it is successful then it'll build those associations and look fine I think.

#25 Ali_G

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 13:02

Looks better than the Dallara DW12.

But that wouldn't be difficult.


There's not much radical about this car outside of it's shape. You could easily develope a car which would be nearly as light, but would be much faster due to being much better aerodynamically.

#26 ensign14

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 13:02

I don't have any objections to it per se, just that it seems a bit out of place that Le Mans - a race that is ostensibly for road cars in which you could cram a passenger - could allow it to enter. Let's see it driven on the roads around the town for a while first.

#27 jee

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 13:08

Half the weight, half the fuel consumption, half the...

...power.

There must have been a genius at work!

#28 Option1

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 13:12

Apart from it looking very very silly, I have some objection to the opportunism shown by those pushing the idea of it.

First it was a contender as an open-wheel replacement for the Indycar crapwagon, but it wasn't chosen.

Oh look, suddenly it's a closed-wheel sportscar. How convenient.

Neil

#29 Seanspeed

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 13:17

Apart from it looking very very silly, I have some objection to the opportunism shown by those pushing the idea of it.

First it was a contender as an open-wheel replacement for the Indycar crapwagon, but it wasn't chosen.

Oh look, suddenly it's a closed-wheel sportscar. How convenient.

Neil

Why is that a bad thing? :confused:

#30 PayasYouRace

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 13:26

I can't really decide what I think of it yet. I'll think I'll have to see it in action. I do like the concept behind it but I can't really decide if it looks cool or awkward.

#31 smoothcrim

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 13:28

Why is the driver offset?

Im surprised its as fast as it is,u wouldnt think it would generate much front end grip with such a narrow track.

#32 Victor_RO

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 13:28

I'll think I'll have to see it in action.




Some natural-sound video from the Test Day, includes a number of cars in action and the Deltawing is among them.

Why is the driver offset?

Im surprised its as fast as it is,u wouldnt think it would generate much front end grip with such a narrow track.


Uses the chassis from last year's Aston Martin AMR-One LMP1, and since LMP cars are (theoretically) two-seaters, the driver is offset to one side of the cockpit.

#33 MattPete

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 13:32

Why is the driver offset?


Le Mans rules (it's a sportscar, now)

Im surprised its as fast as it is,u wouldnt think it would generate much front end grip with such a narrow track.


The majority of the mass is in the back, therefore you can get away with a narrow front track and narrow front tires as long as you have a wide track and wide tires in the back. Ground effects also helps.

#34 Option1

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 13:33

Why is that a bad thing? :confused:

So what is it, an open-wheel formula car, or a sportscar? As I said, to me it has the tinge of greedy opportunism by the promoters.

Neil

#35 PayasYouRace

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 13:38



Some natural-sound video from the Test Day, includes a number of cars in action and the Deltawing is among them.


It's certainly a strange one. I think I'm starting to like it.

PS. That video had some rather strange suggestions on side. :well:


#36 Red17

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 13:43

Why is the driver offset?

It's also a AMOne tub. Yes THAT epic fail of an LMP1 you are thinking of.

The front actually looks ok. But there is something with that rear looking too large and at the same time too low.
But again, why should I complain when Formula 1 went platypus and Indycar went swan?

Edited by Red17, 05 June 2012 - 13:44.


#37 Andrew Hope

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 13:44

IndyCar didn't go swan. IndyCar went booty :smoking:.

Edited by Andrew Hope, 05 June 2012 - 13:45.


#38 smoothcrim

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 13:49

Seems strange they wouldn't design a chassis from the ground up for a new concept like this.

I dont like it for that reason alone,but it also it has a gutless engine and shitty looks.A 1.6 litre turbo should make a reliable 450 horse these days at least.







#39 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 14:12

So what is it, an open-wheel formula car, or a sportscar? As I said, to me it has the tinge of greedy opportunism by the promoters.

Neil


I think it's kind of neat the way they have something that can work everywhere but NASCAR. It's a concept, not a car as such.

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#40 Woody3says

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 14:28

Listen to the Radio LeMans podcast for lunch time at the test. Towards the end Hindy interviews Audi's engine guru. He was the one who pushed BB to go to LeMans with the car. He also starts that he and the OEMs are behind the push for the smaller engines with higher efficiency. If you don't like the looks, fine. At least understand the concept behind the car before you bitch and moan. It's 300hp not because it's a POS 4, but because that was the HP number BB had when the car was set before IndyCar! The argument about shamelessly switching the car to LeMans is absolutely laughable to me. What the hell is a LMP1/2 than a closed wheel openseater to start with!

I hope it does well and would love to see it run ALMS next season. Give Nissan credit. It took some big balls to go fully backing the project. Best of luck to the team, and finally I'll root for a Franchitti.

#41 maverick69

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 14:36

Nice to see a novel concept out there. Variety is the spice of life and all that. It also makes for an interesting study in vehicle dynamics.

However, I can't help but feel it's a bit of a gimmick...... not to mention fundamentally flawed/limited.

Then again - a 911 is fundamentally flawed and has been for the last 50 or so years........

#42 midgrid

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 14:39

I don't have a strong opinion on the car's aesthetics, and the worries about it being able to take sharp corners when it was an IndyCar proposal proved to be a red herring, but I'm wondering if it will be less stable in the turbulence of traffic than a conventional LMP? It reminds me slightly of the off-centre Nardi Damolnar Bisiluro (450kg), which was literally blown off the track in the 1955 event whilst being lapped.

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#43 Option1

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 14:42

I think it's kind of neat the way they have something that can work everywhere but NASCAR. It's a concept, not a car as such.

Fair comment. I think in the end my reasons could best be summed up as "She ugly!"

Neil

#44 PayasYouRace

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 14:44

I don't have a strong opinion on the car's aesthetics, and the worries about it being able to take sharp corners when it was an IndyCar proposal proved to be a red herring, but I'm wondering if it will be less stable in the turbulence of traffic than a conventional LMP? It reminds me slightly of the off-centre Nardi Damolnar Bisiluro (450kg), which was literally blown off the track in the 1955 event whilst being lapped.

Posted Image


Aerodynamics have come a long way since then. That looks like it would crash if you breathed on it too hard.

#45 snash

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 14:57

Interesting article in this month's Road & Track.

http://www.roadandtr...ent-and-testing

#46 Victor_RO

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 15:00

I don't have a strong opinion on the car's aesthetics, and the worries about it being able to take sharp corners when it was an IndyCar proposal proved to be a red herring, but I'm wondering if it will be less stable in the turbulence of traffic than a conventional LMP? It reminds me slightly of the off-centre Nardi Damolnar Bisiluro (450kg), which was literally blown off the track in the 1955 event whilst being lapped.


Apparently it's actually more stable in traffic and dirty air, under-body aerodynamics are less affected by turbulence. Allegedly.

#47 Bloggsworth

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 15:03

It was 25 seconds off the pace.

#48 Slowinfastout

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 15:06

It was 25 seconds off the pace.


Compared to what?

#49 Victor_RO

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 15:09

Compared to what?


Compared to the McNish-driven #2 Audi. It was 7-8 seconds off the 3:40 target time that the ACO set for it (as far as I'm aware), but this on the car's first outing at Le Mans. Peaked at 307 kph in a straight line, not bad for 300 bhp. The real test in terms of laptimes is going to be in qualifying and the race though, Test Day times mean relatively little.

#50 Slowinfastout

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 15:14

Compared to the McNish-driven #2 Audi. It was 7-8 seconds off the 3:40 target time that the ACO set for it (as far as I'm aware), but this on the car's first outing at Le Mans. Peaked at 307 kph in a straight line, not bad for 300 bhp. The real test in terms of laptimes is going to be in qualifying and the race though, Test Day times mean relatively little.


It's pretty much doing what was expected of it, then..

I'm also more curious how it will handle itself in normal close racing situations, with it's odd proportions and stuff.