94 replies to this topic

[Muppetmad]

http://planetf1.com/...e-Daddy-s-Boys-

Is there some validity to what Jacques says, despite the ever-candid approach he has taken in expressing it? I do agree with him that the attitude towards the one-move rule is flawed, and could eventually lead to a serious accident if not addressed. However, are today's drivers really "little daddy's boys" who coast their way to success? I think that's a very unfair assessment; one can look at the stories of numerous F1 drivers on today's grid, or in recent years, who haven't had an easy time in getting to F1.

Your views? Has he put his foot in it once again?

Edited by Muppetmad, 07 June 2012 - 10:33.

[rhukkas]

http://planetf1.com/...e-Daddy-s-Boys-

Is there some validity to what Jacques says, despite the ever-candid approach he has taken in expressing it? I do agree with him that the attitude towards the one-move rule is flawed, and could eventually lead to a serious accident if not addressed. However, are today's drivers really "little daddy's boys" who coast their way to success? I think that's a very unfair assessment; one can look at the stories of numerous F1 drivers on today's grid, or in recent years, who haven't had an easy time in getting to F1.

Your views? Has he put his foot in it once again?

If you look further down the ladder then you start to see that he's not far off the truth, though I disagree about working hard. But when a season of KF3 costs 100-250k then you start to understand if you aren't bringing SERIOUS cash from day one you've got no chance. It's getting worse.

[jamiegc]

He's not wrong. Ironic though.

[pingu666]

i guess its mostly true, as the drivers themselves are typicaly too young to really work a normal job. in the past alot of drivers started around 18years old as weekend warriors, now they start at 5? in go carts.

so they "earn" through compertion, but not like they are doing a 9 to 5 job to get money to go racing

[sofarapartguy]

Most of the fans admire drivers like MW, FA, JB - the way they act is old-schooll, from the times when F1 was a hard-core S.P.O.R.T. without this "show" stuff we have nowadays. Villeneuve himself was pretty joung when he made a debute in F1 but he wasn't looking like a young nice media-frendly guy with a convinient sense of humor. Of course F1 has changed a lot, but new drivers are looking like artificially developed by the young driver programms - all with similar characters and habbits.

Look at GP2 drivers - they drive like it is a Codemasters F1 2012 multiplayer.

[iotar]

I really need to find clip of Senna whining like a baby about hardly questionable Mansell overtakes. In his usual fake thoughtful way. It should be also handy to counter this silly "gap - real racer" quote that pops up too frequently here.

This grass was greener fifteen or even two ( ) years ago attitude is really unbearable. Most likely, the ones complaining were younger and enjoyed life and F1 more. Nostalgia is a big, fat lie: active suspension, launch control, traction control, teams with own tracks and tyres. What a "pure racing" time it was.

[sosidge]

Jacques is simply building up his profile before the British pantomime season.

[jjcale]

He's not wrong. Ironic though.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought so.... both on the basis of who his dad is and he is one of the biggest whingers ever... its like he was looking in a mirror when he said this.

That said, I agree with everything he said... including his thoughs on BS and MS... that's how I saw it at the time.

Edited by jjcale, 07 June 2012 - 11:04.

[Diablobb81]

I agree with his thoughts about the moves. I said the same about the moves made by Nico and BS.

[BigWicks]

I think he's so spot on, some of the moves you see drivers pull these days... it's going to end really badly one day quite soon. Everyone raved about it but I thought that pass Webber pulled on Alonso in Belgium last year was just stupid, really really stupid.

[Risil]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought so....

It sounds ironic, but when you think about it it's also extremely sad.

Single-seater really fell of the cliff these last ten years, didn't it?

[TheBunk]

Anyone sticking up for Schumacher @ Spain gets a from me ;)

[OldSoldier2]

Let's see. JV lost his father at an early age but his family had enough money to raise him in Monte Carlo. That is sad as he lost the advice of his father, one of the most talented F1 drivers, as JV undertook his racing career.

The top three drivers, according to most on the Autosport board, are Alonso, Hamilton, and Vettel (not necessarily in that order).

Alonso's father was a factory mechanic; Mom worked in a department store.

Hamilton, as I am sure all here know, had a father who worked three jobs so Lewis could get his start in the sport.

Vettel's father was a carpenter who packed the family in a camper to travel to various races when Seb was young.

It is old school, but remember that the son of a bricklayer and part-time cart fixer whose mother ran the canteen became a seven time WDC.

If JV wants to talk about pay drivers, fine. But there is nothing to criticize about parents trying to nurture a child's talent in any endeavor.

So call them "little daddy's boys".

[andrewr]

Let's see. JV lost his father at an early age but his family had enough money to raise him in Monte Carlo. That is sad as he lost the advice of his father, one of the most talented F1 drivers, as JV undertook his racing career.

The top three drivers, according to most on the Autosport board, are Alonso, Hamilton, and Vettel (not necessarily in that order).

Alonso's father was a factory mechanic; Mom worked in a department store.

Hamilton, as I am sure all here know, had a father who worked three jobs so Lewis could get his start in the sport.

Vettel's father was a carpenter who packed the family in a camper to travel to various races when Seb was young.

It is old school, but remember that the son of a bricklayer and part-time cart fixer whose mother ran the canteen became a seven time WDC.

If JV wants to talk about pay drivers, fine. But there is nothing to criticize about parents trying to nurture a child's talent in any endeavor.

So call them "little daddy's boys".

Not sure what point you're trying to make here. Nobody said their parents were rich. Just that they have been groomed since childhood for success.

Edited by andrewr, 07 June 2012 - 12:53.

[Headspin]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought so.... both on the basis of who his dad is and he is one of the biggest whingers ever... its like he was looking in a mirror when he said this.

My first thought too. Wether he's right or not, it's pretty much coming from him.

[bmardini]

It is true that being on various grids these days says more about how much money you have than how much talent you have.

The reality is this;

go karting has gotten a lot more expensive
Touring car racing at the club level costs a minimum of $50K/year, assuming you own the car
GT4 racing at the club level costs a minimum of $120K/year, assuming you own the car
GT3 racing at the club level costs a minimum of $180K/year, assuming you own the car

To buy a seat at the Rolex Daytona 24 hours in the GT class is upwards of $100K
To buy a seat at LeMans in GT is upwards of $150K

And so on and so forth. GP2 is 2 million Euros a year. GP3 is a bit less. Some of the GP2 guys have been doing it for years. The only reason you do GP2 is if you are thinking about F1.

Pure sponsorship does exist, but somehow someway you need to get yourself competitive first at your own cost. I've estimated the upfront cost to be >$250K before an ideal scenario where you'd start recovering sponsor money.

So, yeah, its a rich man's sport.

[King Six]

So, yeah, its a rich man's sport.

Really though it's what you would expect at the higher levels where the technology is vastly different, but you can still run a banger around a track for dirt cheap as Top Gear has proven.

[JV97]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought so.... both on the basis of who his dad is and he is one of the biggest whingers ever... its like he was looking in a mirror when he said this.

That said, I agree with everything he said... including his thoughs on BS and MS... that's how I saw it at the time.

Nah. Can't level any of his comments here at his own gate. Context.

And whinger?

[Peat]

I don't think he is making a point about people's parents livelyhoods.....

In the case of Vettel and Hamilton, they were brought on from an early age by Mclaren and Red Bull respectively. This has meant that they haven't really had to scratch around for funds, deal with rejection and disappointment on thier way up. Y'know, that thing called 'life-experience'. So times get tough in F1, suprise suprise, they act like children.

Look back a generation or 2 when driver's represented themselves, fought for drives, worked jobs, ran businesses while in racing. Looking at GP2 etc, driver's tend to hide behind big sponsors and managers who control thier every breath. They are simply not 'men'. This can be said of alot of F1 drivers too.

Sure, Jacques' surname opened a few more doors for him, but he had to go after it and prove himself through results. And results he had by the bucket-load!

I tend to agree with his sentiment, but as usual his 'outspoken' (read: hamfisted) approach is misconstrude by most.

Edited by Peat, 07 June 2012 - 14:02.

[Markn93]

Haha just seen Martin Brundle's latest tweet: ‏@MBrundleF1 This should be fascinating, We welcome Jacques Villeneuve on SkyF1 for the Canadian GP this w/end. He's never short of a controversial view

[pingu666]

Really though it's what you would expect at the higher levels where the technology is vastly different, but you can still run a banger around a track for dirt cheap as Top Gear has proven.

yep, but your unlikely to make it to a f1 that isnt f1 stockcar or whatever its called.

theres very few drivers who have started at a late age and self funded to high levels of the sport

if sebs dad or lewis's dad had said, no lets stop karting, would they be in f1 ?

[hammibal]

Let's see. JV lost his father at an early age but his family had enough money to raise him in Monte Carlo. That is sad as he lost the advice of his father, one of the most talented F1 drivers, as JV undertook his racing career.

The top three drivers, according to most on the Autosport board, are Alonso, Hamilton, and Vettel (not necessarily in that order).

Alonso's father was a factory mechanic; Mom worked in a department store.

Hamilton, as I am sure all here know, had a father who worked three jobs so Lewis could get his start in the sport.

Vettel's father was a carpenter who packed the family in a camper to travel to various races when Seb was young.

It is old school, but remember that the son of a bricklayer and part-time cart fixer whose mother ran the canteen became a seven time WDC.

If JV wants to talk about pay drivers, fine. But there is nothing to criticize about parents trying to nurture a child's talent in any endeavor.

So call them "little daddy's boys".

I was thinking the same, Villenueve had a privileged upbringing unlike some of the other drivers he is perhaps criticising

Not sure what point you're trying to make here. Nobody said their parents were rich. Just that they have been groomed since childhood for success.

Many sports people are

[1Devil1]

Most of the fans admire drivers like MW, FA, JB - the way they act is old-schooll, from the times when F1 was a hard-core S.P.O.R.T. without this "show" stuff we have nowadays. Villeneuve himself was pretty joung when he made a debute in F1 but he wasn't looking like a young nice media-frendly guy with a convinient sense of humor. Of course F1 has changed a lot, but new drivers are looking like artificially developed by the young driver programms - all with similar characters and habbits.

Look at GP2 drivers - they drive like it is a Codemasters F1 2012 multiplayer.

I really can't see the artificially developed media guys. Vettel is great, has lot of humor, he is playing all the time with the media, he has some fun, but if something goes wrong he is mad and you can see in his face he wants to punch somebody really badly. You can say the same about the Hamilton and his happy bubble - but they all humans, and i like that, it shows that f1 is way off the all driver having the same character and attitude like you said. You can't blame them for driving differently to the guys starting ten years ago. f1 changed their rules and the expectations of young drivers. believe me if fia would allow to drive harder, vettel, hamilton would be the first to kick out the next guy to win a race.

[jjcale]

In fairness to JV - I feel the need to point out that there is a difference between growing up with (your family's) money and being a corporate sponsored driver from a young age.

He is complaining about the bland personalities and poor driving manners of the latter ... not the sense of entitledment and unfounded egos and poor driving habits of the former. I should not have said he was looking in the mirror. I should have said he is a hypocrite.

[BRG]

Hmm, F1 race in Montreal, Quebec this weekend. Controversial opinions reported from F1 driver with connections to Quebec. Surely there cannot be any link?

[Skinnyguy]

About the drivers moving too late to defend, he´s right. It´s happening more and more often. If you´re going to cover the inside, do it early enough to avoid the guy behind being forced to hesitate.

About the rest, it´s a poor nostalgia rant.

[PoleMan]

I actually disagree with Jacques about Bruno. Michael was miles quicker, he moved to the outside while Michael thought he'd defend the inside and went for the outside pass. Michael was a bit too impatient and wrecked two races because of that.

Considering how difficult JV made it to pass people when he was in slower cars, I'd think he would be more understanding of Bruno's plight.

[Pamphlet]

Not sure what point you're trying to make here. Nobody said their parents were rich. Just that they have been groomed since childhood for success.

What's the problem with that?

I actually disagree with Jacques about Bruno. Michael was miles quicker, he moved to the outside while Michael thought he'd defend the inside and went for the outside pass. Michael was a bit too impatient and wrecked two races because of that.

Considering how difficult JV made it to pass people when he was in slower cars, I'd think he would be more understanding of Bruno's plight.

I remember the last time when the so-called "general fan opinion" ended up being wrong...

Edited by Pamphlet, 07 June 2012 - 16:48.

[aditya-now]

I actually disagree with Jacques about Bruno. Michael was miles quicker, he moved to the outside while Michael thought he'd defend the inside and went for the outside pass. Michael was a bit too impatient and wrecked two races because of that.

Considering how difficult JV made it to pass people when he was in slower cars, I'd think he would be more understanding of Bruno's plight.

Same here, huge fan of Villeneuve, but here he is wrong. What could Bruno Senna do with that set of tires? Up to the driver behind, and Schumi was way too fast and losing downforce in the slipstream.

Sometimes I get the impression that Villeneuve has some late nostalgia for Schumacher (after dishing it out to him for many years....)

[Pamphlet]

Sometimes I get the impression that Villeneuve has some late nostalgia for Schumacher (after dishing it out to him for many years....)

If he was anything like Hill he would've immediately bashed Schumacher.

[aditya-now]

If he was anything like Hill he would've immediately bashed Schumacher.

You could say about Hill that at least he is consistent....

Anyway, Damon was quite congratulatory on Mike's pole lap in Monaco, so he is not totally blind...

[jjcale]

Same here, huge fan of Villeneuve, but here he is wrong. What could Bruno Senna do with that set of tires? Up to the driver behind, and Schumi was way too fast and losing downforce in the slipstream.

Sometimes I get the impression that Villeneuve has some late nostalgia for Schumacher (after dishing it out to him for many years....)

Commit to a line?

[aditya-now]

Commit to a line?

It was a little side move, and Michael was already far too close and too fast for taking avoiding action, whether Bruno had stayed on his original line or moved that little bit.

Glad you bring that up, jjcale. At least you are in line with Jacques!

[PoleMan]

I remember the last time when the so-called "general fan opinion" ended up being wrong...
[/quote]
Not clear if your intent is to disagree with me, but MS was docked 5 spots in Monaco by the stewards who aren't "general fans", but the sporting authority.

BTW, I also think Vettel was in the wrong...more impatience/revenge with Narain and it bit him.

[Slowinfastout]

Same here, huge fan of Villeneuve, but here he is wrong. What could Bruno Senna do with that set of tires? Up to the driver behind, and Schumi was way too fast and losing downforce in the slipstream.

Sometimes I get the impression that Villeneuve has some late nostalgia for Schumacher (after dishing it out to him for many years....)

What Villeneuve says is that at that point, because of the pit strategy and the early state of the race, Bruno wasn't really racing Michael... there was no point having the widest car imaginable and holding a car on fresh tires behind. Bruno was actually slowing himself down driving so defensively, as well.

It's an entirely fair comment in my book...

BTW, I had to go read the article as these JV comments tend to attract the crazies even if the core argument is pretty much always pretty sound, and yes, it's said using a bit inflammatory images, but the message is spot-on.

[Pamphlet]

BTW, I also think Vettel was in the wrong...more impatience/revenge with Narain and it bit him.

It's not even a matter of opinion at this stage. That post alone proves it. And I even approve of Schumacher's penalty.

[aditya-now]

BTW, I had to go read the article as these JV comments tend to attract the crazies even if the core argument is pretty much always pretty sound, and yes, it's said using a bit inflammatory images, but the message is spot-on.

I agree, it's highly advisable to read the article, typical Jacques speak. There hasn't been anyone like him since.

[MidKnight]

Same here, huge fan of Villeneuve, but here he is wrong. What could Bruno Senna do with that set of tires? Up to the driver behind, and Schumi was way too fast and losing downforce in the slipstream.

Sometimes I get the impression that Villeneuve has some late nostalgia for Schumacher (after dishing it out to him for many years....)

I'm just glad actual racers get it, just confirms that guys like JV are much better sources for an assessment of what happened then people that post here. Senna was being a complete boob in the DRS zone and as I opined back when it happened anyone that understands racing knows why...and that is what JV is talking about...in a past era you would never make some kind of unpredictable move in that situation at that spot under braking there as the crash would likely kill both drivers...

Edited by MidKnight, 07 June 2012 - 17:37.

[spacekid]

Its easy to be cynical about the timing of Jacques comments, as well as their nature under the headline banner.

However I tend to agree with the thrust of what he is saying. We now seem to expect F1 to be populated by 21 year old kids with instant success in top seats. I also agree with him regarding the tyres.

[Diablobb81]

It was a little side move, and Michael was already far too close and too fast for taking avoiding action, whether Bruno had stayed on his original line or moved that little bit.

That's what i find funny. If it wouldn't have been Michael it would have been universally regraded as making two moves in the braking zone and the fault of the defending driver. Now it's all about the "little" second move. But it is what it is.

Michal probably got the penalty considering his stunt in FP.

Edited by Diablobb81, 07 June 2012 - 17:45.

[MidKnight]

That's what i find funny. If it wouldn't have been Michael it would have universally regraded as making two moves in the braking zone and the fault of the defending driver. Now it's all about the "little" second move. But it is what it is.

Michal probably got the penalty considering his stunt in FP.

Just imagine the uproar had that been Schumacher pulling the move that Senna did...Jackie Stewart and Stirling Moss would have held a joint press conference at Silverstone the next day...

[aditya-now]

Just imagine the uproar had that been Schumacher pulling the move that Senna did...Jackie Stewart and Stirling Moss would have held a joint press conference at Silverstone the next day...

A joint press conference of Sir Jackie and Sir Stirling!!!



That made my day. And I can exactly imagine how they would have ranted about Schumi!

[TheBunk]

Just imagine the uproar had that been Schumacher pulling the move that Senna did...Jackie Stewart and Stirling Moss would have held a joint press conference at Silverstone the next day...

[Bloggsworth]

Villeneuve is spilt milk crying...

[TheBunk]

Villeneuve is spilt milk crying...

No, I miss guys like him who call their colleagues corporate robots, dress in oversized race overal, dye their hair platina blonde and do not hang huge name tags with smiling pictures of themself in the garage.

[Buttoneer]

Jenson was asked about this in today's PC.

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/100173

Q. (Livio Oricchio – O Estado de Sao Paulo) To all of you, a World Champion, Jacques Villeneuve, said this generation of drivers are all Daddy's boys.

JB: I'll make a comment. Jacques has a very unusual way of answering questions but you've also just picked out one piece of his interview. Basically, the more important part of his interview is him talking about safety and the way that back in the seventies the drivers were more aware of there being a lot more risk and the possibilities of fatality. I think he was stating that these days racing has got safer, and the circuits have got safer, and he was talking about the manoeuvre with Nico and Lewis in Bahrain and he was stating that he didn't think it was correct. That's what he was saying. But that's quite normal for you to pick out that sentence.

[spacekid]

Props to Jenson - a very fair minded response there I think. He's right to call out the journalists on selective quoting, and I like his referrence to Jacques 'unusual' style in interviews!

[spacekid]

No, I miss guys like him who call their colleagues corporate robots, dress in oversized race overal, dye their hair platina blonde and do not hang huge name tags with smiling pictures of themself in the garage.

I don't think F1 needs JVs driving skills anymore (he's been so long out of the game...) but a few more individuals like him wouldn't hurt.

[TheBunk]

Jenson was asked about this in today's PC.

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/100173

[ryan86]

NEW HEADLINE: Button and Villeneuve in Feud: Button calls ex-teammate unusual