16 replies to this topic

[syph0nJZ05]

Recently (this season) we have seen a lot closer and hence more competitive racing. For many this type of racing is simply more fun and of course creates a much tighter and more interesting championship battle. This has led to a number of rumblings about how this might be too similar to a spec series (both from supporters of such series' and detractors).

However F1 is not a spec series and to go down that route would simply be a step away from the bedrock that F1 sits on. Let's be honest the vast majority of fans follow the more successful teams in the sport and that success has nearly always come from periods of dominance through engineering brilliance (that the sport quite rightly rewards through the championship system). And let's be honest F1 wouldn't be F1 without the famous teams which are synonymous with motorsport across the globe.

So we have this contradiction within the sport - of course everyone wants to continue to see the engineers being given free rein to compete, but equally a lot of fans don't want to lose what we've seen this season with the drivers being given a closer platform to truly demonstrate their skills and arguably produce better racing.

So what's the answer? Well why not take a leaf out of GP2s book and have two races; but this time have one race being a spec series and the other being a more liberal form of the F1 we see today. In other words split the WDC and WCC championships. This way we would see the benefits of both the close and tight spec series type racing but equally there would be a platform for the teams to demonstrate their engineering prowess.

It could work something like this:
Friday - WDC practice and WDC qualifying session.
Saturday - WDC race and WCC practice session.
Sunday - WCC qualifying and WCC race.

Obviously the races would have to be shortened a little for time and fitness reasons, but equally the sport would be seeing two races instead of one.

Personally I think something like this could truly work. It could even develop in the future into an F1, F2 and F3 series with promotions and demotions of teams like in football. But what do we say (both purists and innovators alike), is this something that could potentially work (maybe with some tweaking) or is it one step too far from an already well established sport?

[MrMontecarlo]

How many different cars do you need for that? Freaking expensive.

The solution is to let Formula 1 be what it always has been. We need more design freedom.

Edited by MrMontecarlo, 11 June 2012 - 19:17.

[pingu666]

if people wanted spec racing, indycar and gp2 would be much popular, and f2/fpa would be hugely popular
sad but true

[phil1993]

2012 is one of those seasons you get every now and then.

The midfield teams, such as Williams and Sauber, will develop their 2012 car too late in the season. Therefore they'll get behind on 2013 and slip back a bit. Next year will be a little bit more spread out because the front running teams can balance working on the current and future car.

It would be nice to have a little more design freedom, but it's getting ever more difficult to regulate. Furthermore, the way F1 is now it's less about innovation and more about exploiting the weak wording of a regulation.

As for promotions & relegations; it's an interesting concept but wholly impractical. Budget is so different compared to GP2 & F1. The time it takes to build up an F1 team would mean that the same teams would go up and down and barely make it past 107%. It's taken Caterham two and a half seasons to start challenging Toro Rosso.

The only way promotion/relegation would work would be if F1, GP2 and GP3 had exactly the same specs; what would be the point in that?

Edited by phil1993, 11 June 2012 - 19:30.

[syph0nJZ05]

The only way promotion/relegation would work would be if F1, GP2 and GP3 had exactly the same specs; what would be the point in that?

Not necessarily true. The different 'leagues' could be separated by a limiting factor such as engine, or budget, etc - but otherwise have very similar regulations. That way it would make it easier for a team to make the step up into F1 and therefore we wouldn't see the disaster that we've seen from HRT and Marussia.

[syph0nJZ05]

How many different cars do you need for that? Freaking expensive.

The solution is to let Formula 1 be what it always has been. We need more design freedom.

The majority of the costs come from transport and personnel. Those cost are taken care of already - the extra expense would come from having to run an extra two GP2 style cars. For an F1 team I don't think that would be a significant extra expense.

[syph0nJZ05]

if people wanted spec racing, indycar and gp2 would be much popular, and f2/fpa would be hugely popular
sad but true

It is true, but F1 one has two things that they don't have - the glamour and of course the World's best drivers. I think people watch F1 more because of the spectacle, the drivers and teams more so than the type of series it is. Capitalism in sport doesn't always work ;) .

[phil1993]

Not necessarily true. The different 'leagues' could be separated by a limiting factor such as engine, or budget, etc - but otherwise have very similar regulations. That way it would make it easier for a team to make the step up into F1 and therefore we wouldn't see the disaster that we've seen from HRT and Marussia.

But I don't want to see the pinnacle of motorsport butchered further just to allow Addax, ART & DAMS in for the sake of HRT, Marussia & Caterham. What would it add? Pretty much nothing. It would ruin teams rather than help them.

In the same way that in football, I want to see the top teams fight without being limited. If you want to make it big in F1, you do it the hard way or do what Red Bull did - buy a team and build it up.

I think you're underestimating just how complex the sport is and how big the gap is between F1 and junior formulas nowadays; I don't think it's as easy to make the step up like teams have (Jordan) in the past, unless you want to allow Customer Cars. That would be the only realistic solution unless you want the sport butchered beyond recognition. But then Customer Cars brings with it problems of its own...

The best way of a promotion/relegation is what some teams have with multiple teams. For example, Marussia has an F1 team, a GP2 tie up with Carlin and a team in GP3. Caterham has a GP2 team and FR3.5 tie-up with Arden. Lotus has a GP2 and GP3 team in collaboration with ART. That would be the best way maybe? Each F1 team has a 'junior' team in GP2 & GP3.

Edited by phil1993, 11 June 2012 - 20:19.

[syph0nJZ05]

But I don't want to see the pinnacle of motorsport butchered further just to allow Addax, ART & DAMS in for the sake of HRT, Marussia & Caterham. What would it add? Pretty much nothing. It would ruin teams rather than help them.

In the same way that in football, I want to see the top teams fight without being limited. If you want to make it big in F1, you do it the hard way or do what Red Bull did - buy a team and build it up.

I think you're underestimating just how complex the sport is and how big the gap is between F1 and junior formulas nowadays; I don't think it's as easy to make the step up like teams have (Jordan) in the past, unless you want to allow Customer Cars. That would be the only realistic solution unless you want the sport butchered beyond recognition. But then Customer Cars brings with it problems of its own...

The best way of a promotion/relegation is what some teams have with multiple teams. For example, Marussia has an F1 team, a GP2 tie up with Carlin and a team in GP3. Caterham has a GP2 team and FR3.5 tie-up with Arden. Lotus has a GP2 and GP3 team in collaboration with ART. That would be the best way maybe? Each F1 team has a 'junior' team in GP2 & GP3.

Well I don't envisage a league system like football were a number of teams come up and go down each season. I expect it to be more like Rugby League were a team in a lower division has to prove they are a capable race team before progressing up. A promotion might only happen then every 2 or 3 years. But at least lower teams then have something to focus on if they want to progress. I think it could work - although it is obviously quite a major change hence why I mentioned it at the end of my OP.

[pingu666]

gp2 not having the worlds best drivers isnt true either
hamilton, alonso(f3000) rosberg, hulk, pasta, koba, glock and others all came through gp2. no reason to presume the current gp2 drivers are rubbish.

[phil1993]

Well you could argue that we had that in 2010. HRT was the dream of Campos, so he basically promoted a large swathe of his GP2 package until he needed help. Marussia is just Manor Motorsport now with Marussia investment. Caterham was founded by a lot of people from Litespeed.

Every now and then the FIA opens it up for new entries and some junior formula teams evaluate whether to make the step-up. We had three teams that got accepted in 2010 but for 2011 the FIA decided no-one could do it.

[syph0nJZ05]

gp2 not having the worlds best drivers isnt true either
hamilton, alonso(f3000) rosberg, hulk, pasta, koba, glock and others all came through gp2. no reason to presume the current gp2 drivers are rubbish.

But they're not in GP2 now; the cream of the crop are regularly plucked and move to F1. So F1 always has a field of the World's best drivers, whereas other series might only have a couple of really top class drivers at any time.

[syph0nJZ05]

Well you could argue that we had that in 2010. HRT was the dream of Campos, so he basically promoted a large swathe of his GP2 package until he needed help. Marussia is just Manor Motorsport now with Marussia investment. Caterham was founded by a lot of people from Litespeed.

Every now and then the FIA opens it up for new entries and some junior formula teams evaluate whether to make the step-up. We had three teams that got accepted in 2010 but for 2011 the FIA decided no-one could do it.

But an awful lot of those engineers are having to learn many trades (especially in-season development) on the job. If a system was in place were the lower formula had the opportunity to design as well then the teams making the step up would include more skilled and readied engineers. Although I'm not too sure how much extra finance it would take to go from a supportive racing team to a supportive and designing racing team.

[BullHead]

It is what it is, it will be what it will be, and that's fine. That's F1.

[syph0nJZ05]

It is what it is, it will be what it will be, and that's fine. That's F1.

Don't get me wrong I like how the sport is at the moment. If anything I'm just trying to play Devil's advocate.

All sports change and develop (usually for the better). Football (the World's biggest sport) has had quite a number of radical changes over the last couple of decades; such as the introduction of new tournaments (the Premiership, Champions League, Europa League, etc) and changes to tournament structures (group stages replacing some knock-out rounds for example).

If other sports review their structures, then maybe F1 could too?

[Baddoer]

No idea whats going in topic post, but i've got a name for series - N1. Great name, isn't it ?

[4MEN]

How many different cars do you need for that? Freaking expensive.

The solution is to let Formula 1 be what it always has been. We need more design freedom.

Agreed. Discussions over holes in the floor are ridiculous. Let them do what they want!