How long until DRS causes a serious accident?
#1
Posted 11 June 2012 - 21:24
Oh, it ruins racing too.
Ban it please.
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#2
Posted 11 June 2012 - 21:39
So back when DRS was brought in one of the fundamental requirements was that if it failed it failed in the closed position. However we saw on Schumacher's car in Canada that it IS possible for the system to jam in an open state, despite the efforts of several burly mechanics to slam it shut (hardly surprising given the wind loading the actuator has been designed to deal with). Now, luckily the team was able to tell Michael over the radio that the DRS was open when it shouldn't have been, but can you imagine what would happen say going into Ascari at Monza if DRS stayed open under braking? We could well be looking at a serious accident as the driver bangs on the brakes at 200+mph with next to no rear downforce. No doubt this would be followed by a knee jerk FIA reaction probably involving slashing downforce by 50% the following season.
Oh, it ruins racing too.
Ban it please.
It's just another part of the car that can break, there's many parts that, if broke, would cause an accident. Plus 'next to no' rear downforce is a bit of an exaggeration.
#3
Posted 11 June 2012 - 21:44
monza is a safe place for such a failure. there is very little difference between DRS on and off. THe cars run very very low downforce
#4
Posted 11 June 2012 - 22:00
and yes it makes fake overtaking and ruins the races, ban it please.
#5
Posted 11 June 2012 - 22:05
It's just another part of the car that can break, there's many parts that, if broke, would cause an accident. Plus 'next to no' rear downforce is a bit of an exaggeration.
Edited by Disgrace, 11 June 2012 - 22:05.
#6
Posted 11 June 2012 - 22:11
http://forums.autosp...a...t&p=5769592
Like i said in these post, i'm fully agree with you. DRS is useless and dangerous.
And Mercedes GP is STUPID. Schumacher DRS was stuck open during his pitstop, and they let him race. It's STUPID, and dangerous. What they were thinking ?
#7
Posted 11 June 2012 - 22:12
Still I don't think it's necessary anymore.
#8
Posted 11 June 2012 - 22:17
#9
Posted 11 June 2012 - 22:19
#10
Posted 11 June 2012 - 23:19
I'm by no means a DRS fan but I see no value in this particular argument against it.
#11
Posted 12 June 2012 - 00:48
#12
Posted 12 June 2012 - 01:30
-DRS straight with malfunctioning rear wing
-High speed corner with a bumpy entry
-A blown tire
-Short safety zone with insufficient safety barrier
#13
Posted 12 June 2012 - 01:47
Edited by ViMaMo, 12 June 2012 - 01:50.
#14
Posted 12 June 2012 - 01:56
#15
Posted 12 June 2012 - 03:36
Banning DRS would cut down overtaking by how much? Any stats on how many were DRS related overtaking? If its the majority then for sure there will be that "faster car stuck behind slower car" thingy or "there was nooo overtaking, so boring" etc etc.
Unfortunately, most of the times DRS helps the overtake when a slower car has somehow gotten ahead of a faster car. It punishes the good drivers in bad cars and helps the front runners when a mistake is made. If it wasn't for Alonso getting stuck behind Petrov in 2010, I don't think DRS would've been introduced in the first place.
#16
Posted 12 June 2012 - 03:50
#17
Posted 12 June 2012 - 04:34
#18
Posted 12 June 2012 - 05:35
How many serious accidents has DRS prevented?
#19
Posted 12 June 2012 - 06:15
Where is your god now.
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#20
Posted 12 June 2012 - 06:23
#21
Posted 12 June 2012 - 06:58
#22
Posted 12 June 2012 - 07:25
DRS has caused serious and less serious accidents. Without DRS Schumacher wouldn't have knocked his front wing off at Silverstone last year. The crash with Senna wouldn't have happened. The speed difference was very high coming to a braking zone.
There have been other off-camera moments I guess. We never know.;)
#23
Posted 12 June 2012 - 07:29
DRS, by definition, is unsafe. The fact that the officials reserve the right to turn it off in inclement weather and certain situationsspeaks volumes. How many other parts of a modern Formula One car can be deactivated beyond the team's controls?
For example, I have never heard anyone being told by race control during bad weather "your engine is being turned down to 16000 rpm"; "you must pit and change to wet tyres", "your fuel mix is being made more lean". From the team, maybe; but never from the officials. That is because it is a maxim of motorsport that you race using every tool available to you. You push to the maximum in the dry; you push to the maximum in the wet. That Charlie Whiting can decide to weld part of your toolbox shut just elucidates the artificiality of it.
Imagine the 110m Hurdles at the Olympics. Semi-finals are dry so the race is run as normal. Two hours later its raining heavily so the race coordinator says to the athletes in the final: "It's quite slippery out there, so we've taken away the hurdles. It's just gonna be a straight sprint now".
The myopia of the Formula One fiefdom is astounding. Instead of addressing the problem, they find a short term workaround. The cars have a mechanical cancer (dirty air) which prevents overtaking and instead of chemotherapy (stricter regs on the rear of the car) to try and deal with the problem, Bernie and co. prefer a spot of wig shopping (DRS) to cover it up.
#24
Posted 12 June 2012 - 07:30
Why every real concern about safety and fairness of the competition must be turned into a fanboy blabber? It was MS who could end in a wall, not Alonso.It's funny how all the Alonso fans are now screaming ban the DRS. Just love it.
Yes, F1 is dangerous by nature, but the more gimmicks there are on the car, the higher the probability of failure. Imagine a driver approaching a corner at max speed with DRS failing to close, and in the braking zone he finds that there's no braking effect from the rear wing. Wheel brakes? Yes, but without downforce they are also less effective.
Edited by sharo, 12 June 2012 - 07:30.
#25
Posted 12 June 2012 - 07:47
It's funny how all the Alonso fans are now screaming ban the DRS. Just love it.
I think there has been a consistent group on here (including me) calling for this gimmic to be banned from the very start.
I wanting racing, not seeing a car blast past another car down the straight aided by that piece of crap.
#26
Posted 12 June 2012 - 07:47
#27
Posted 12 June 2012 - 07:49
#28
Posted 12 June 2012 - 07:53
I love when threads are done in the first reply.It's just another part of the car that can break, there's many parts that, if broke, would cause an accident. Plus 'next to no' rear downforce is a bit of an exaggeration.
#29
Posted 12 June 2012 - 07:59
Also, how many memorable battles between drivers we've had since the introduction of DRS? Zero. That some fans like this piece of **** that ruins racing is beyond me.
#30
Posted 12 June 2012 - 08:04
Banning DRS would cut down overtaking by how much? Any stats on how many were DRS related overtaking? If its the majority then for sure there will be that "faster car stuck behind slower car" thingy or "there was nooo overtaking, so boring" etc etc.
Easy to fix
Instead of a DRS zone, make it a "KERS zone". Disable KERS or allow double power output for chasing car.
Yes, opens a whole new can of worms.
I thought that DRS was fairly safe until I saw MSC fail open. If he was going into the final chicane it would have been a massive accident instead of a grassy trip.
#31
Posted 12 June 2012 - 08:07
I'm pretty sure we had passing on the straights with a 15kph speed difference long before DRS.I always wince whenever cars pull out from behind other cars while using DRS on a straight. There have been some very dramatic attempts to block this by certain drivers and I fear it's only a matter of time before we have another Webber/Kovalainen situation where front wheel makes contact with rear wheel and someone ends up in the air.
#32
Posted 12 June 2012 - 08:14
I'm pretty sure we had passing on the straights with a 15kph speed difference long before DRS.
I'm pretty sure we've seen a vast increase in this happening since the introduction of DRS though.
#33
Posted 12 June 2012 - 08:14
I think we should get rid of drivers too, becuase they are massively error prone by comparison to components.
I simply can't workout in my head how some people like DRS ? Are you actually one of them ?
#34
Posted 12 June 2012 - 08:14
I always wince whenever cars pull out from behind other cars while using DRS on a straight. There have been some very dramatic attempts to block this by certain drivers and I fear it's only a matter of time before we have another Webber/Kovalainen situation where front wheel makes contact with rear wheel and someone ends up in the air.
It does look dangerous really.
#35
Posted 12 June 2012 - 08:20
#36
Posted 12 June 2012 - 08:26
#37
Posted 12 June 2012 - 08:29
In other news, Motorsport is dangerous and the water is wet.
What's the point of having something that is dangerous and ruins racing? Someone please explain me because I don't get it.
#38
Posted 12 June 2012 - 08:35
In other news, Motorsport is dangerous and the water is wet.
Maybe F1 should introduce a system where cars fire turtle shells at other cars, to spice up the show ? What's a little extra danger ?
#39
Posted 12 June 2012 - 09:22
More powerful engines
Less aero
Ban on electronics
The whole thing boils down to the same thing : It's unsafe.
While i'admit i'm not a big fan of DRS, it did spice things up. Better than watching a parade, IMO.
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#40
Posted 12 June 2012 - 09:34
#41
Posted 12 June 2012 - 09:37
Having said that, I think if they made it so engines had only 500hp (limited to 15k rpm) with an extra 400hp kers powered (limited to 18-19k rpm), we would see a lot more overtaking...
#42
Posted 12 June 2012 - 09:37
Given that that accident happened without DRS why use it as an example?I always wince whenever cars pull out from behind other cars while using DRS on a straight. There have been some very dramatic attempts to block this by certain drivers and I fear it's only a matter of time before we have another Webber/Kovalainen situation where front wheel makes contact with rear wheel and someone ends up in the air.
#43
Posted 12 June 2012 - 09:42
#44
Posted 12 June 2012 - 09:45
Why every real concern about safety and fairness of the competition must be turned into a fanboy blabber? It was MS who could end in a wall, not Alonso.
Yes, F1 is dangerous by nature, but the more gimmicks there are on the car, the higher the probability of failure. Imagine a driver approaching a corner at max speed with DRS failing to close, and in the braking zone he finds that there's no braking effect from the rear wing. Wheel brakes? Yes, but without downforce they are also less effective.
But it's not the first time that the DRS has proven to be problematic. It just that never before have so many people screamed about it. And it's mostly one group of fans.
I think there has been a consistent group on here (including me) calling for this gimmic to be banned from the very start.
I wanting racing, not seeing a car blast past another car down the straight aided by that piece of crap.
But the problem is that we had examples of car being 1-2s faster but being unable to pass. How do you fix that.
#45
Posted 12 June 2012 - 09:49
Abandon this 30yo basic config of F1 car and come up with and introduce brand new spec car.But the problem is that we had examples of car being 1-2s faster but being unable to pass. How do you fix that.
#46
Posted 12 June 2012 - 09:52
#47
Posted 12 June 2012 - 09:53
I agree with the OP.
DRS, by definition, is unsafe. The fact that the officials reserve the right to turn it off in inclement weather and certain situationsspeaks volumes. How many other parts of a modern Formula One car can be deactivated beyond the team's controls?
For example, I have never heard anyone being told by race control during bad weather "your engine is being turned down to 16000 rpm"; "you must pit and change to wet tyres", "your fuel mix is being made more lean". From the team, maybe; but never from the officials. That is because it is a maxim of motorsport that you race using every tool available to you. You push to the maximum in the dry; you push to the maximum in the wet. That Charlie Whiting can decide to weld part of your toolbox shut just elucidates the artificiality of it.
Imagine the 110m Hurdles at the Olympics. Semi-finals are dry so the race is run as normal. Two hours later its raining heavily so the race coordinator says to the athletes in the final: "It's quite slippery out there, so we've taken away the hurdles. It's just gonna be a straight sprint now".
The myopia of the Formula One fiefdom is astounding. Instead of addressing the problem, they find a short term workaround. The cars have a mechanical cancer (dirty air) which prevents overtaking and instead of chemotherapy (stricter regs on the rear of the car) to try and deal with the problem, Bernie and co. prefer a spot of wig shopping (DRS) to cover it up.
Not true. Teams are obliged to use wet tires with a SC start in the rain. I vaguely remember Ferrari getting a DT penalty for being on the wrong tires years ago. Now they just loiter behind the SC (if they can keep up due to deg. ) until it is dry enough for inters.
Edited by SenorSjon, 12 June 2012 - 09:54.
#48
Posted 12 June 2012 - 10:12
Overtaking on the straights? Yup. Dangerous blocking, no. If anything, passing on the straights with DRS are actually safer than without because of the higher speed difference making defensive driving a waste of time.I'm pretty sure we've seen a vast increase in this happening since the introduction of DRS though.
There's nothing wrong with not liking DRS, but this safety argument is pretty ridiculous. Sure it can fail and screw up the balance of the car, but arguing for a ban because of the danger kinda reminds me of this:
#49
Posted 12 June 2012 - 10:20
1. It's a device that's described in the regulations as something that teams can implement if they want to (so they can't ban it as such, they'd have to re-write the regulations that allow it)
2. It was the TWG that came up with the idea - i.e. it's the teams themselves that wanted it - so I can't see that there would be any interest from either the teams or the FIA to get rid of it.
Having said that, I don't really like the whole idea myself. It's a big kludge to avoid having to make more tricky and unpalletable changes, I think.
#50
Posted 12 June 2012 - 10:39
I'm pretty sure we've seen a vast increase in this happening since the introduction of DRS though.
We have seen several accidents caused by DRS.. where a driver once committed to a drs pass is going so much faster than the car in front that they are unable to avoid tail-ending them when the defending driver does anything unexpected.
The system makes racing worse (drivers now avoid, and are instructed to avoid, passing anywhere else), is somewhat dangerous, doesn't usually even work as intended.. It seems like all lose to me.