Jump to content


Photo

Interlagos track changes [split]


  • Please log in to reply
123 replies to this topic

Poll: Is this a good idea? (79 member(s) have cast votes)

Is this a good idea?

  1. Yes. (15 votes [18.99%])

    Percentage of vote: 18.99%

  2. No. (50 votes [63.29%])

    Percentage of vote: 63.29%

  3. Don't care. (14 votes [17.72%])

    Percentage of vote: 17.72%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#1 highdownforce

highdownforce
  • Member

  • 3,675 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 06 November 2011 - 14:02

I've just seen the proposal presented by CBA to changes on the track, namely:
(1) (more) escape area;
(2) new wall;
(3) completely new pit entry.

Posted Image

However, AFAIK, there's no planing for when this changes should start to be made.

Edited by D.M.N., 15 June 2012 - 15:38.
remove first now irrelevant line "Another thread that I've left without updates for a while."


Advertisement

#2 johnmhinds

johnmhinds
  • Member

  • 1,860 posts
  • Joined: July 09

Posted 06 November 2011 - 15:11

The new pit entry is a mystery to me.

Making cars slow down earlier to enter the pits is going to push all the faster cars into overtaking them just before or even in the middle of the corner itself.



#3 Ross Stonefeld

Ross Stonefeld
  • Member

  • 55,919 posts
  • Joined: August 99

Posted 06 November 2011 - 15:13

I think that will be fine, they'll probably just ask the drivers on a normal lap not to cut into the pit entrance, and the early part of the pit entry is fast enough for the car pitting to stay flat.

#4 Risil

Risil
  • Member

  • 12,243 posts
  • Joined: February 07

Posted 06 November 2011 - 15:25

What's the point of the chicane at the pit entrance? Doesn't the pitlane have speed limits?

Edited by Risil, 06 November 2011 - 15:25.


#5 johnmhinds

johnmhinds
  • Member

  • 1,860 posts
  • Joined: July 09

Posted 06 November 2011 - 16:12

What's the point of the chicane at the pit entrance? Doesn't the pitlane have speed limits?


Beats me, i've never seen any problems with speeding in the pits.

This addition to the pit entry and the ridiculous pit exit must make it by far the longest pit lane on the whole F1 calendar.
The pits will be half the length of the track. :stoned:

Edited by johnmhinds, 06 November 2011 - 16:27.


#6 highdownforce

highdownforce
  • Member

  • 3,675 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 07 November 2011 - 12:13

Despite that I'm also confused, and that I haven't seen the documents yet, a think the chicane (that will require embankment work) may indicates that there won't be a speed limit on that point.

The design plan was based on FIA's appointments, it probably may have some reasons for those changes.
And again, remember this changes are not being made with (only) F1 in mind.

#7 highdownforce

highdownforce
  • Member

  • 3,675 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 07 November 2011 - 12:13

Despite that I'm also confused, and that I haven't seen the documents yet, a think the chicane (that will require embankment work) may indicates that there won't be a speed limit on that point.

The design plan was based on FIA's appointments, it probably may have some reasons for those changes.
And again, remember this changes are not being made with (only) F1 in mind.

#8 Risil

Risil
  • Member

  • 12,243 posts
  • Joined: February 07

Posted 07 November 2011 - 14:31

Despite that I'm also confused, and that I haven't seen the documents yet, a think the chicane (that will require embankment work) may indicates that there won't be a speed limit on that point.

The design plan was based on FIA's appointments, it probably may have some reasons for those changes.
And again, remember this changes are not being made with (only) F1 in mind.


I can understand why the embankment work for the pit chicane would be useful when Interlagos gets its periodic idea that it should be running MotoGP races. It looks like it could be converted into a proper chicane without a problem. Whether that would be enough to convince the FIM, of course...

#9 highdownforce

highdownforce
  • Member

  • 3,675 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 07 November 2011 - 15:04

According to the old circuit administration, FIM just objected about run off area at Curva do Café.

#10 August

August
  • Member

  • 1,961 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 16 November 2011 - 11:07

I come back to this.

Another thread that I've left without updates for a while.
I've just seen the proposal presented by CBA to changes on the track, namely:
(1) (more) escape area;
(2) new wall;
(3) completely new pit entry.

Posted Image

However, AFAIK, there's no planing for when this changes should start to be made.


Might that need much work at all? Here's the current satellite picture.

Posted Image

Seems that they won't demolish the permanent grandstand, they'll just remove the barrier next to the track and use the area in front of the grandstand as runoff. As the runoff is marked with grey, it's possibly tarmac. The new runoff might possibly mean there isn't space for the temporary grandstand of Curva do Cafe.

The pit entry seems somewaht similar to '98 pit entry. (1:25) The only difference seems to be that in the proposal the pit lane starts before Curva do Cafe, in '98 the pitlane started just before the chicane, but there was the white line at Curva do Cafe. But the chicane already exists, anyway. But, I wonder if F1 will use that pit entry chicane.

#11 highdownforce

highdownforce
  • Member

  • 3,675 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 16 November 2011 - 12:27

Might that need much work at all? Here's the current satellite picture.

Thanks for your addition.

Seems that they won't demolish the permanent grandstand, they'll just remove the barrier next to the track and use the area in front of the grandstand as runoff. As the runoff is marked with grey, it's possibly tarmac. The new runoff might possibly mean there isn't space for the temporary grandstand of Curva do Cafe.

Looks exactly like that, it's a really bad drawing because some items are juxtaposed but by the satellite pic you can see that jus moving the barriers back might be enough.
Maybe a how of seats could be lost but nothing more than that.
The temporary grand stand could even be a smaller one.

The pit entry seems somewaht similar to '98 pit entry. (1:25) The only difference seems to be that in the proposal the pit lane starts before Curva do Cafe, in '98 the pitlane started just before the chicane, but there was the white line at Curva do Cafe. But the chicane already exists, anyway. But, I wonder if F1 will use that pit entry chicane.

The chicane already exists indeed, but it's entrance besides being prolonged is thought to be widened.
This is the main concern as this could mean dealing with the banking there.

This changes are planed to happen next year, before the Brazilian GP.
WEC round at Interlagos is pending confirmation mainly because of this changes on the track that may still be on their way at September next year.

Edited by highdownforce, 16 November 2011 - 12:28.


#12 August

August
  • Member

  • 1,961 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 16 November 2011 - 15:01

The chicane already exists indeed, but it's entrance besides being prolonged is thought to be widened.
This is the main concern as this could mean dealing with the banking there.


That proposal picture doesn't show properly whether embankment work is needed. If the pitlane will be made to start before Curva do Cafe, then embankment is obviously needed. Another option might be to make the track's inside line the new, longer pitlane, narrowing the racing line. But I just wonder what's the purpose of the long pit entry. If the problem is the last corner, then have the entry between the last two corners and have a concrete barrier at the last corner preventing shortcutting. At least I don't think the long pitlane has anything to do with bikes.

#13 highdownforce

highdownforce
  • Member

  • 3,675 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 16 November 2011 - 15:21

That proposal picture doesn't show properly whether embankment work is needed.

That's right, the picture barely shows anything. But we believe that something must be done at that area because of its topology.

If the pitlane will be made to start before Curva do Cafe, then embankment is obviously needed.

That's the current understanding, but not much was presented after that.
The proposal was not declared to be accepted neither.

Another option might be to make the track's inside line the new, longer pitlane, narrowing the racing line. But I just wonder what's the purpose of the long pit entry. If the problem is the last corner, then have the entry between the last two corners and have a concrete barrier at the last corner preventing shortcutting.

As I have understood, and some others have this understanding (that by no means I'm able to claim to be the correct one) the track will be widened a bit to comport the new pit entrance. A concrete barrier will be placed mid corner to avoid drivers cutting to the pit entry.

At least I don't think the long pitlane has anything to do with bikes.

AFAIK, specifically talking about the pit lane changes, those were proposed by FIA.

#14 wewantourdarbyback

wewantourdarbyback
  • Member

  • 6,358 posts
  • Joined: September 08

Posted 16 November 2011 - 18:40

Looking at that satellite picture. If they remove the current barrier back to the one in front of the grandstand, that looks awfully close to the permanent grandstand if it's not removed. Also if someone loses it half way around the corner it's still not a massively bigger run off.

I think they may have to move the grandstand back a little, or at least remove a couple of rows down the front.

#15 highdownforce

highdownforce
  • Member

  • 3,675 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 03 April 2012 - 21:24

One year since Gustavo Sondermann's death.
What changes have being made to Interlagos? Or to the spec race cars?

Nothing...

Despite that pointless chicane, nothing has being done.
Those proposed changes to Curva do Café are not underway and many have lost their faith on it happening.
With WEC and F1 on the second semester there is no much time (for Brazilian standards) for something serious to be made.

So we'll have another year with the track on current palliative conditions. The yellow flag is gone but the chicane is there, stock car used it, but I can't confirm you if bike races are using the chicane.

But much more worrying is the fact that those Copa Montana cars still using an older iteration of the Stock Car chassis, no relevant further modifications were made to that.

For any given Sunday such event can happen again.

#16 Tiakumosan

Tiakumosan
  • Member

  • 278 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 03 April 2012 - 21:30

Brazilian politicians :S

I remember seeing this year, on a motorsports program (i thing it was auto+), a bike race happening and they were not using the chicane.

#17 highdownforce

highdownforce
  • Member

  • 3,675 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 09 May 2012 - 16:29

Today SPTuris, municipal company that manages the Interlagos circuit, presented a reform plan for the Sao Paulo circuit as part of the second phase of the project planned by the city.

The changes include the construction of a new pit area - exclusively for F1 - at the back straight (Reta Oposta), as well as a new section of stands, an arena for events and concerts behind the new pitlane, a new drag strip on the Retão straight (behind Reta Oposta) in the old circuit, new public access, a new Automotive Museum and skate park on the outside of Curva do Lago and several new sport facilities on the site.

About Curva do Café, a new chicane, not for F1 use, will be built at the outside of this turn for bikes and national competitions.

This changes are expected to be ready for the 2013 Brazilian Grand Prix.

Posted Image

Posted Image


Edit: Yes... grid will be move to back straight and Senna's S won't be T1 anymore.

Edited by highdownforce, 09 May 2012 - 20:44.
remove "Thread necromancy, I know." - now irrelevant


#18 Atreiu

Atreiu
  • Member

  • 9,475 posts
  • Joined: May 07

Posted 09 May 2012 - 16:47

Sweet.

#19 Cavani

Cavani
  • Member

  • 905 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 09 May 2012 - 17:09

nice work , would love the classic venues to have modern facilities and new look like silverstone

Advertisement

#20 D.M.N.

D.M.N.
  • RC Forum Host

  • 7,102 posts
  • Joined: May 08

Posted 09 May 2012 - 17:41

Today SPTuris, municipal company that manages the Interlagos circuit, presented a reform plan for the Sao Paulo circuit as part of the second phase of the project planned by the city.

The changes include the construction of a new pit area - exclusively for F1 - at the back straight (Reta Oposta), as well as a new section of stands, an arena for events and concerts behind the new pitlane, a new drag strip on the Retão straight (behind Reta Oposta) in the old circuit, new public access, a new Automotive Museum and skate park on the outside of Curva do Lago and several new sport facilities on the site.

About Curva do Café, a new chicane, not for F1 use, will be built at the outside of this turn for bikes and national competitions.

This changes are expected to be ready for the 2013 Brazilian Grand Prix.


They can modernise the facilities all they like, but please do not change the track layout, it's perfect as it is.

#21 Tiakumosan

Tiakumosan
  • Member

  • 278 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 09 May 2012 - 18:50

Hmm, brazil, brazil .... Election year, and more promises ...

#22 Zava

Zava
  • Member

  • 4,743 posts
  • Joined: September 10

Posted 09 May 2012 - 19:02

Today SPTuris, municipal company that manages the Interlagos circuit, presented a reform plan for the Sao Paulo circuit as part of the second phase of the project planned by the city.

The changes include the construction of a new pit area - exclusively for F1 - at the back straight (Reta Oposta), as well as a new section of stands, an arena for events and concerts behind the new pitlane, a new drag strip on the Retão straight (behind Reta Oposta) in the old circuit, new public access, a new Automotive Museum and skate park on the outside of Curva do Lago and several new sport facilities on the site.

About Curva do Café, a new chicane, not for F1 use, will be built at the outside of this turn for bikes and national competitions.

This changes are expected to be ready for the 2013 Brazilian Grand Prix.

if that means moving the starting grid to the back straight (I assume the one after the Senna-S) then no, thanks.

#23 RC127

RC127
  • Member

  • 844 posts
  • Joined: May 10

Posted 09 May 2012 - 19:17

if that means moving the starting grid to the back straight (I assume the one after the Senna-S) then no, thanks.


I second that!

Could F1 ever live with a pit/paddock complex that *wasn't* where the grid was - IndyCar does this at a few tracks, I believe (therefore I assume other series do as well), so why not F1.

We cannot lose the Senna "S" being T1, would completely change the character of the lap, and not in a good way.

Can understand why they want to move the pits - give the teams a pit/paddock complex worthy of F1, plus eliminate the rather marginal on safety pit entry we currently have.

#24 highdownforce

highdownforce
  • Member

  • 3,675 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 09 May 2012 - 20:24

if that means moving the starting grid to the back straight (I assume the one after the Senna-S) then no, thanks.

I've just realized I've forgotten to mention this. :blush:
Yes, the starting grid will be moved to Reta Oposta, new T1 will be current T4.

Posted Image


Edit: Should be noted that Interlagos pitlane is really small, smaller than Jacarepaguá, for a track that wants to be a fixed WEC round this is surely a problem. Also this would allow F1 teams to have their so desired space that the circuit is famous for not offering.

Edited by highdownforce, 09 May 2012 - 20:31.


#25 Dunder

Dunder
  • Member

  • 6,784 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 09 May 2012 - 20:27

I second that!

Could F1 ever live with a pit/paddock complex that *wasn't* where the grid was - IndyCar does this at a few tracks, I believe (therefore I assume other series do as well), so why not F1.

We cannot lose the Senna "S" being T1, would completely change the character of the lap, and not in a good way.

Can understand why they want to move the pits - give the teams a pit/paddock complex worthy of F1, plus eliminate the rather marginal on safety pit entry we currently have.


How do you figure that?
A lap is still a lap, the only real difference would be the race start.


#26 highdownforce

highdownforce
  • Member

  • 3,675 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 09 May 2012 - 20:35

Could F1 ever live with a pit/paddock complex that *wasn't* where the grid was - IndyCar does this at a few tracks, I believe (therefore I assume other series do as well), so why not F1.

Indycar doesn't have (for now) standing starts.

#27 ascension

ascension
  • Member

  • 42 posts
  • Joined: April 12

Posted 09 May 2012 - 23:16

The pit lane is ridiculously long on this track!
Posted Image

#28 midgrid

midgrid
  • Member

  • 4,338 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 09 May 2012 - 23:19

How do you figure that?
A lap is still a lap, the only real difference would be the race start.


Personally, I think the opening sequence of corners at Interlagos (up until the Descida do Lago) is the best in F1 right now, with the possible exception of Spa-Francorchamps up to Les Combes.


#29 Fastcake

Fastcake
  • Member

  • 5,667 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 10 May 2012 - 00:12

Personally, I think the opening sequence of corners at Interlagos (up until the Descida do Lago) is the best in F1 right now, with the possible exception of Spa-Francorchamps up to Les Combes.


I do agree with you, I really like the current start at Interlagos going through the Senna S. Also with the current start line we've got the grid on a hill, which really adds to the place's character. :)

#30 IceSkyrim

IceSkyrim
  • Member

  • 867 posts
  • Joined: December 11

Posted 10 May 2012 - 01:06

Ridiculous ! :rolleyes:

They finally made decent grandstands [full concrete and covered] in front of the boxes and now they are gonna move the whole thing ? :drunk:

They are gonna swap Sector A [front boxes] one of most expensive for Sector G [Opposite Straight] the cheapest one :drunk:

What about the "old boxes" interfering the view in Sector A ? Are they gonna demolish it all ? :drunk:

The chicane will interfere the top speed in into the Senna Esses and cut all overtaking there.

...

They just need to build a second floor over the boxes and build some boxes before the first one.
That will give more room to the racing teams for hospitality.

...

The chicane is needles bcs the curve is not dangerous.
The deaths were caused by stupid touring car drivers doing rogue manouvres on a wet race.
Both times, they made door-to-door contact, one of them eventually ended lying across the track and being T-Boned by drivers comming behind on a bumper carnage.


#31 Tiakumosan

Tiakumosan
  • Member

  • 278 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 10 May 2012 - 01:19

The new chicane won't be used for F1.

#32 Dunder

Dunder
  • Member

  • 6,784 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 10 May 2012 - 01:34

Personally, I think the opening sequence of corners at Interlagos (up until the Descida do Lago) is the best in F1 right now, with the possible exception of Spa-Francorchamps up to Les Combes.


Right but the track layout isn't changing, just the location of the pits and S/F line.


#33 PayasYouRace

PayasYouRace
  • Member

  • 6,017 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 10 May 2012 - 07:30

Seems like a good idea to me.

#34 Clatter

Clatter
  • Member

  • 26,863 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 10 May 2012 - 10:53

nice work , would love the classic venues to have modern facilities and new look like silverstone


Because it improves the racing how?

#35 midgrid

midgrid
  • Member

  • 4,338 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 10 May 2012 - 15:40

Right but the track layout isn't changing, just the location of the pits and S/F line.


Indeed, but I was referring to the opening sequence of corners specifically on the first lap, immediately after the start. I think Interlagos has one of the best, if not the best, track layouts in this respect. Having said that, seeing multiple cars going side-by-side into Ferradura (the new Turn 3) would also be interesting!


#36 Cavani

Cavani
  • Member

  • 905 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 10 May 2012 - 15:53

Because it improves the racing how?


i didn't say it improves racing , i said the track layout stays the same (this is the classic part ) but improve the venue by building new facilities just like silverstone , i dont think my post was that hard to understand

#37 Risil

Risil
  • Member

  • 12,243 posts
  • Joined: February 07

Posted 10 May 2012 - 15:55

i didn't say it improves racing , i said the track layout stays the same (this is the classic part ) but improve the venue by building new facilities just like silverstone , i dont think my post was that hard to understand


Improve the venue for who though?

Edited by Risil, 10 May 2012 - 15:56.


#38 highdownforce

highdownforce
  • Member

  • 3,675 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 10 May 2012 - 17:11

Posted Image
Interlagos after track changes.

Posted Image
Two proposals for changes at Curva do Café .

#39 phil1993

phil1993
  • Member

  • 1,933 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 10 May 2012 - 17:14

I don't want to state the obvious, but surely with the red layout, anyone who has a brake failure there or anything is going to have the mother of all head-on crashes about half a second later? Unless of course that highway is being moved, which seems unlikely.

Advertisement

#40 midgrid

midgrid
  • Member

  • 4,338 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 10 May 2012 - 17:20

I don't want to state the obvious, but surely with the red layout, anyone who has a brake failure there or anything is going to have the mother of all head-on crashes about half a second later? Unless of course that highway is being moved, which seems unlikely.


Agreed - it reminds me of the Eau Rouge chicane of 1994, which also could have been dangerous in similar circumstances.




#41 Cavani

Cavani
  • Member

  • 905 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 10 May 2012 - 17:45

Improve the venue for who though?


for teams , fans on the track , and tv spectators , because when the buildings and surroundings are good looking , they add to the place

#42 bernardoBR

bernardoBR
  • Member

  • 36 posts
  • Joined: December 09

Posted 10 May 2012 - 20:56

We may lose some action in the first lap. But in the other side the last lap get more chances of a last minute overtake at Senna´s S.

Overall this change is needed and Reta Oposta is where most unused space is. There´s no room for improvements where the paddock is now.

There´s also a train station nearby the reta oposta, where the future main entry of the track is going to be.

#43 PayasYouRace

PayasYouRace
  • Member

  • 6,017 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 10 May 2012 - 22:16

Posted Image
Interlagos after track changes.

Posted Image
Two proposals for changes at Curva do Café .


At this rate more than half the track will have pitlane alongside (they aren't going to demolish the old one, right?). I mean, the new pit exit will probably have to be after T4 or even T5, as that straight isn't that long.

I'd have thought the best option for the chicane would have been to enlarge the one that's already there on the inside of the track. But then maybe there's something I'm missing.

#44 Les

Les
  • Member

  • 2,054 posts
  • Joined: January 09

Posted 10 May 2012 - 22:42

I don't want to state the obvious, but surely with the red layout, anyone who has a brake failure there or anything is going to have the mother of all head-on crashes about half a second later? Unless of course that highway is being moved, which seems unlikely.


Yeah you would think with the problems at that corner the last thing they would want to do is build closer to the highway, you would think they would want to move the track the other way instead away. Its a difficult place to change though. I do love the circuit though so I hope the pit changes can go ahead and help save the track on the calendar.

#45 saudoso

saudoso
  • Member

  • 4,420 posts
  • Joined: March 04

Posted 10 May 2012 - 23:30

...

They just need to build a second floor over the boxes and build some boxes before the first one.
That will give more room to the racing teams for hospitality.



I guess you don't know the track. If you get to go to the PPC you will see the teams like sardines in cans behind the garages. And it's not just office space, it's just too damn tight back there.

#46 V8 Fireworks

V8 Fireworks
  • Member

  • 5,239 posts
  • Joined: June 06

Posted 11 May 2012 - 02:37

I don't want to state the obvious, but surely with the red layout, anyone who has a brake failure there or anything is going to have the mother of all head-on crashes about half a second later?

The straight from the previous (fairly slow?) corner is very short though.

#47 phil1993

phil1993
  • Member

  • 1,933 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 11 May 2012 - 07:35

The straight from the previous (fairly slow?) corner is very short though.


Vettel's still hitting 270kph there. It's still going to be a quick corner. F1 hasn't got any issue there apart from when it's wet or Nico Rosberg forgets his front wing has done a disappearing act. It's the other series

#48 Clatter

Clatter
  • Member

  • 26,863 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 11 May 2012 - 10:48

i didn't say it improves racing , i said the track layout stays the same (this is the classic part ) but improve the venue by building new facilities just like silverstone , i dont think my post was that hard to understand


The new buildings at Silverstone have improved nothing for the spectator.

#49 Clatter

Clatter
  • Member

  • 26,863 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 11 May 2012 - 10:49

for teams , fans on the track , and tv spectators , because when the buildings and surroundings are good looking , they add to the place


BS.

#50 Clatter

Clatter
  • Member

  • 26,863 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 11 May 2012 - 10:50

I guess you don't know the track. If you get to go to the PPC you will see the teams like sardines in cans behind the garages. And it's not just office space, it's just too damn tight back there.


And yet they seem to manage OK.