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Vergne cheapshot on Kovalainen


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#1 tarmac

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 15:10

Helmut Marko needs to reasses this guy. Cheapshot on Kovalainen and awful performances so far..

Firing Alguersuari is making Helmut Marko look silly.

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#2 Wander

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 15:12

Neither of these two guys they have now are any better the previous two guys were. Vergne likely to be worse.

#3 bub

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 15:12

Does seem over-rated.

#4 sofarapartguy

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 15:15

Helmut Marko needs to reasses this guy. Cheapshot on Kovalainen and awful performances so far..

Firing Alguersuari is making Helmut Marko look silly.


The whole STR thing is making Helmut Marko look silly. I'm sorry for a potential team's drivers - miserable car where you can show zero performance. Look at FI and what they have achieved in what, 5 years?

Anyway, Vergne is a joke. I'm sure Alg would've wiped him out.


#5 Kyo

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 15:22

They could have hold one of the old guys to serve as benchmark. Now is pretty hard to rank the car/drivers.

About the cheapshot, that was a complete wtf moment.

#6 sesku

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 16:57

stupid JEV. no better than ALG or BUE. He is responsible for ruining race for several driver today.

#7 Disgrace

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 16:59

There's no point of Red Bull having their young driver programme if they don't promote the best drivers in the system to F1. They're looking for the new Vettel, which the previous two drivers weren't.

Now we're finding out whether these guys are the new superstars, and so far we've got very mixed signals. They were both excellent in Melbourne, Ricciardo has had some great qualifying with JEV some good races, but it's clear the car has fallen behind and with it some of the driver performance.

JEV is slow in qualifying which is disappointing, but this race is his first DNF, and first really bad weekend on his part.

Edited by Disgrace, 24 June 2012 - 17:00.


#8 marcoferrari

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 17:07

Such a shame that Jaime was replaced by Vergne. :well: Both current drivers are overated as hell by Horner and Marko.

#9 fatd

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 17:09

Yeah I think Alguersuari had a better performance than both STRs atm, though of course with STR car looking less competitive this season it's hard to compare.
Had to laugh because basically Vergne's puncture was the one that sent out the SC which completely ruined Vettel's race. Won't impress Helmut of course.

Edited by fatd, 24 June 2012 - 17:11.


#10 Bunchies

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 17:11

Such a shame that Jaime was replaced by Vergne. :well: Both current drivers are overated as hell by Horner and Marko.


It's pretty disappointing to watch JEV. Ricciardo I think is ok, and has a good attitude, but watching Vergne just makes me sad.

#11 Kyo

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 17:12

There's no point of Red Bull having their young driver programme if they don't promote the best drivers in the system to F1. They're looking for the new Vettel, which the previous two drivers weren't.

Now we're finding out whether these guys are the new superstars, and so far we've got very mixed signals. They were both excellent in Melbourne, Ricciardo has had some great qualifying with JEV some good races, but it's clear the car has fallen behind and with it some of the driver performance.

JEV is slow in qualifying which is disappointing, but this race is his first DNF, and first really bad weekend on his part.

Of course they must promote their young drivers, but they should have promoted just one, and them the next year promoted the other. I don't like this idea of putting two rookies together.

#12 FlashMaster

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 17:12

JEV via Twitter "All my apologies to @H_Kovalainen, rookie, not rookie, just my mistake and will learn from it..."

#13 Disgrace

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 17:15

Of course they must promote their young drivers, but they should have promoted just one, and them the next year promoted the other. I don't like this idea of putting two rookies together.


Fair enough, I was personally not impressed at the dropping of Jaime myself after his great latter season last year. It also means no reference point for the team.

However, we have seen rookie lineups work in the past, Jordan in 1997 I always think of. The reference point also might not be as impressive as he should like Rubens last year against Pastor. I think it's worth the risk for a team whose sole purpose is to find the best drivers for the senior team.

#14 sergeym

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 17:16

Of course they must promote their young drivers, but they should have promoted just one, and them the next year promoted the other. I don't like this idea of putting two rookies together.


I think they decided that both Alg and Buemi are not on the RBR level. So, they picked up next drivers from their program to evaluate them.

#15 lokiman

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 17:19

I think they decided that both Alg and Buemi are not on the RBR level. So, they picked up next drivers from their program to evaluate them.


Yep, that was exactly it. I thought that dropping both drivers was brutal, but when you think about what the purpose of the Toro Rosso program is, it makes sense.

#16 Buckethead

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 17:20

Thank you JEV for making this race interesting :)

#17 Henrik B

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 17:33

JEV via Twitter "All my apologies to @H_Kovalainen, rookie, not rookie, just my mistake and will learn from it..."


I guess someone finally showed him the video. In interviews he was going "uh, I just turned in for the corner and I was ahead...".

#18 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 17:37

He's performing quite disappointing so far I must say. He was so highly rated in the junior Formula's, but he's just too wild. It wouldn't surprise me if Toro Rosso replace him with Sebastien Buemi for a few races until Vergne calms down a bit.

Maybe his debut came a bit too soon, after all, the original plan was to let Alguersuari or Buemi race alongside Ricciardo and let Vergne drive Friday sessions. Too bad his debut has been rushed.

Edited by DutchQuicksilver, 24 June 2012 - 17:38.


#19 fabr68

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 17:39

Helmut Marko needs to reasses this guy. Cheapshot on Kovalainen and awful performances so far..

Firing Alguersuari is making Helmut Marko look silly.


Will not be surprised if Vegne is waiting for Marko with his head in the chopping block.

His incident with Kovalainen triggered the Safety Car and arguably the outcome of the race.

Edited by fabr68, 24 June 2012 - 17:40.


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#20 Rob

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 17:43

I think they decided that both Alg and Buemi are not on the RBR level. So, they picked up next drivers from their program to evaluate them.


That's all very well, but they told Alguersuari his seat was safe and then fired him when it was too late to find a seat elsewhere. He'd turned down offers because he thought he was staying with STR.

#21 Ensign

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 18:03

They should've gone with Rob Wickens.

#22 Jon83

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 18:15

He's still young but his comments about doing as good-a-job as Webber are starting to look even more silly than they were then.

#23 F.M.

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 18:20

He's still young but his comments about doing as good-a-job as Webber are starting to look even more silly than they were then.

That's indeed the only thing I think off when I see him drive (perform) this year.

Vergne is overrated, and the most by himself; He dared to say that everybody, and he himself particularly, could have done a better job at Red Bull in 2010. He makes the most stupid moves/crashes and always says he didn't do anything wrong but the other guy is at fault. After those stupid moves, he simply carries on doing stupid things (like driving his car into retirement today after the puncture).

Edited by F.M., 24 June 2012 - 18:21.


#24 Slowinfastout

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 18:30

Vergne is still ridiculously young, the penalties he got today are fully deserved but he's just beginning his F1 career..

Personally I'm much more disappointed by STR as a team in general, and predictably it's impossible to say how much of it is down to the drivers since they didn't keep one from last year.

#25 Lotusseven

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 21:11

He's still young but his comments about doing as good-a-job as Webber are starting to look even more silly than they were then.


That comment was probably meant the RBR car ( Abu Dhabi Young Driver F1 test).. and note the STR ​​car he drives today.
If it´s someone as overrate Jean-Eric Vergne it´s not only Helmut Marko and Christian Horner you can add
Ian Morgan (Head of Race Engineering at Redbull Racing F1 Team). Trevor Carlin (Team principal Carlin Motorsport).
Personally I don't think he is overrated, and everyone can do mistakes in a race.

#26 SirRacer

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 21:55

Anyone has a video?

#27 sumpthy

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 21:57

Maybe the Toro Rosso is really that bad this year? Keeping Alguersuari would have given them a proven quantity in the other car to evaluate Vergne/Ricciardo against.

#28 Toffeli

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 22:00

Here's couple


Edited by Toffeli, 24 June 2012 - 22:03.


#29 Feanaro

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 22:02

Anyone has a video?





(the video isn't mine)

#30 DILLIGAF

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 22:09

He's still young but his comments about doing as good-a-job as Webber are starting to look even more silly than they were then.


I'd forgotten about that. Good point!! :lol:

#31 SirRacer

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 22:11

Here's couple




(the video isn't mine)

Thanks, that was fast :clap:

And well, nothing to add really, that was clearly a stupid mistake by Vergne...

#32 Jon83

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 22:23

That comment was probably meant the RBR car ( Abu Dhabi Young Driver F1 test).. and note the STR ​​car he drives today.
If it´s someone as overrate Jean-Eric Vergne it´s not only Helmut Marko and Christian Horner you can add
Ian Morgan (Head of Race Engineering at Redbull Racing F1 Team). Trevor Carlin (Team principal Carlin Motorsport).
Personally I don't think he is overrated, and everyone can do mistakes in a race.


It was a ridiculous claim, which he had no right to make and comes home to roost when he makes mistakes like he did today which put him out of the race and nearly put Kovalainen out too.

#33 SirRacer

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 22:31

Bring back Alguersuari.

#34 Bruce

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 22:35

Being a Canadian I watched the Formula Renault quite closely last year. Vergne was beaten to the championship by his team-mate - Robert Wickens, from Toronto. Who got the try in F1? Vergne. Give Wickens a chance.

#35 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 22:47

he was a moron today but heck, he said he's sorry, give the guy a break this time.
I have no clue what he was trying to do there but every driver has brain farts

#36 Rob

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 22:53

Being a Canadian I watched the Formula Renault quite closely last year. Vergne was beaten to the championship by his team-mate - Robert Wickens, from Toronto. Who got the try in F1? Vergne. Give Wickens a chance.


I thought Wickens was dropped from the Red Bull programme.

#37 senna da silva

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 22:55

They should've gone with Rob Wickens.


This.

#38 engel

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 23:15

RB isn't interested in churning out OK drivers. Buemi and Alguersuari were both OK drivers, arguably they deserve a midfield seat in F1 but neither of them are the next Vettel and that's what RB is looking for. Are Ricciardo/Vergne the next Vettel? On current evidence no they are not, so I 'd expect them to get a "second" chance in 2013 then join Buemi/Alguersuari in no man's land

#39 MrFondue

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 00:00

Being a Canadian I watched the Formula Renault quite closely last year. Vergne was beaten to the championship by his team-mate - Robert Wickens, from Toronto. Who got the try in F1? Vergne. Give Wickens a chance.


Now he has his chance in the DTM, remember Di Resta?

Too bad he's terrible there.

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#40 Andrew Hope

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 00:06

My favorite part of all of this (beyond last season's 'BUT ALGUESUARI IS SO YOUNG OMG HOW COULD THEY DROP HIM' when Buemi is only a year and a few months older) is how now Toro Rosso fans are trying to pretend that this has suddenly become a failed experiment and we ought to bring back a driver from last year. Erm, no, this was retarded from day one, they should never have binned both of their drivers and they are essentially starting from scratch with 3 years of proof showing that starting from scratch takes at least 3 years.

Edited by Andrew Hope, 25 June 2012 - 00:07.


#41 Bruce

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 00:15

I thought Wickens was dropped from the Red Bull programme.


Wickens was never in (as far as I know) the Red Bull drivers program - which I suppose explains why J-E V is in F1 and Wickens is in an uncompetitive DTM ride...

#42 Bruce

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 00:18

Now he has his chance in the DTM, remember Di Resta?

Too bad he's terrible there.


What team did DiResta race for? What team is Wickens racing for?

#43 gm914

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 00:25

Erm, no, this was retarded from day one, they should never have binned both of their drivers and they are essentially starting from scratch with 3 years of proof showing that starting from scratch takes at least 3 years.

:rotfl:

#44 bourbon

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 00:42

RBR is looking for the next Vettel for the big sister team, but they are also putting some very talented youngsters on display. They have the opportunity to drive elsewhere if they show they have enough of what it takes. Jaime was and still is very young. Like Grosjean, he could definitely get another swing at it if he missed the opportunity due to assurances from Marko last season. If there is potential, it will be seen by those in the know, trust me. Seb Buemi played it smart; if they get fed up with the STRF drivers, he's in.

Edited by bourbon, 25 June 2012 - 00:44.


#45 Jaybools

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 00:53

I still think Ric is actually very far ahead of Vergne. Most of the time Ric has actually had better race pace but STR often split the strategies, with Vergne coming out with the better more often (I question this motive - is this teams objective to score points or assess young drivers? assessing them should mean placing them on the same strategy, right?). In China or Malaysia, wherever Vergne scored points, they kept him out and brought Ric in. Opposites in Monaco, along with Ric's issues led him to be behind his teammate despite showing far better pace when both were at a similar stage in tyre wear. This race Ric actually got a decent start and was more confident in overtaking by the looks of it and it showed.

Unfortunately JEV's car was parked in the pit box of STR preventing him from getting a pit stop and declining him of points which is shit play from STR (how can you not think of that? before the safety car was even deployed I was screaming at the TV saying they better get his f*cking car out of the way.. Instead they were playing with the disintegrated rubber!)

Anyway, as a blatant Ric fan my opinion might not be taken seriously but atm I'd say JEV has more to prove (they are both doing a good job though, and I believe in the end both will be better than Alg and Buemi)

#46 exmayol

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 01:00

Current STR lineup is a joke. Dr Marco failed sacking both JA and SB.

#47 Bruce

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 01:09

I still think Ric is actually very far ahead of Vergne. Most of the time Ric has actually had better race pace but STR often split the strategies, with Vergne coming out with the better more often (I question this motive - is this teams objective to score points or assess young drivers? assessing them should mean placing them on the same strategy, right?). In China or Malaysia, wherever Vergne scored points, they kept him out and brought Ric in. Opposites in Monaco, along with Ric's issues led him to be behind his teammate despite showing far better pace when both were at a similar stage in tyre wear. This race Ric actually got a decent start and was more confident in overtaking by the looks of it and it showed.

Unfortunately JEV's car was parked in the pit box of STR preventing him from getting a pit stop and declining him of points which is shit play from STR (how can you not think of that? before the safety car was even deployed I was screaming at the TV saying they better get his f*cking car out of the way.. Instead they were playing with the disintegrated rubber!)

Anyway, as a blatant Ric fan my opinion might not be taken seriously but atm I'd say JEV has more to prove (they are both doing a good job though, and I believe in the end both will be better than Alg and Buemi)



I'd agree about DR - I think he's worth keeping and has proved it. But Vergne need a head shake....

#48 LukeM

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 03:49

I still think Ric is actually very far ahead of Vergne. Most of the time Ric has actually had better race pace but STR often split the strategies, with Vergne coming out with the better more often (I question this motive - is this teams objective to score points or assess young drivers? assessing them should mean placing them on the same strategy, right?). In China or Malaysia, wherever Vergne scored points, they kept him out and brought Ric in. Opposites in Monaco, along with Ric's issues led him to be behind his teammate despite showing far better pace when both were at a similar stage in tyre wear. This race Ric actually got a decent start and was more confident in overtaking by the looks of it and it showed.

Unfortunately JEV's car was parked in the pit box of STR preventing him from getting a pit stop and declining him of points which is shit play from STR (how can you not think of that? before the safety car was even deployed I was screaming at the TV saying they better get his f*cking car out of the way.. Instead they were playing with the disintegrated rubber!)

Anyway, as a blatant Ric fan my opinion might not be taken seriously but atm I'd say JEV has more to prove (they are both doing a good job though, and I believe in the end both will be better than Alg and Buemi)


:up:

#49 karne

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 04:10

I still think Ric is actually very far ahead of Vergne. Most of the time Ric has actually had better race pace but STR often split the strategies, with Vergne coming out with the better more often (I question this motive - is this teams objective to score points or assess young drivers? assessing them should mean placing them on the same strategy, right?). In China or Malaysia, wherever Vergne scored points, they kept him out and brought Ric in. Opposites in Monaco, along with Ric's issues led him to be behind his teammate despite showing far better pace when both were at a similar stage in tyre wear. This race Ric actually got a decent start and was more confident in overtaking by the looks of it and it showed.

Unfortunately JEV's car was parked in the pit box of STR preventing him from getting a pit stop and declining him of points which is shit play from STR (how can you not think of that? before the safety car was even deployed I was screaming at the TV saying they better get his f*cking car out of the way.. Instead they were playing with the disintegrated rubber!)

Anyway, as a blatant Ric fan my opinion might not be taken seriously but atm I'd say JEV has more to prove (they are both doing a good job though, and I believe in the end both will be better than Alg and Buemi)


:up:

#50 Slowinfastout

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 04:19

I think Vergne could possibly have used an additional year in the lower series, but I'm not ready to hang him just yet.. as I said before he is really very, very young and the potential clearly is there.

The other thing is the french aren't here to defend themselves against the aussies.. :D :p