Jump to content


Photo

Kimi vs Grosjean 2012 [merged]


  • Please log in to reply
1323 replies to this topic

Poll: Kimi vs Grosjean 2012 [merged] (308 member(s) have cast votes)

Who will score first so much desired win for Lotus team?

  1. Kimi (186 votes [60.59%])

    Percentage of vote: 60.59%

  2. Romain (82 votes [26.71%])

    Percentage of vote: 26.71%

  3. They won't win (39 votes [12.70%])

    Percentage of vote: 12.70%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#1301 Vesuvius

Vesuvius
  • Member

  • 6,094 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 04 November 2012 - 19:26

Qualifyings are now 9-8 for Grosjean and races 16-2 for Kimi.

Advertisement

#1302 Ze Bum

Ze Bum
  • Member

  • 236 posts
  • Joined: June 08

Posted 04 November 2012 - 19:40

I expect Grosjean to beat Raikkonen consistently - Kimi will lose interest in his uncompetetive car and run back to his bank.


Can I use this as my sig?

:cool:


#1303 Shiroo

Shiroo
  • Member

  • 4,012 posts
  • Joined: October 12

Posted 04 November 2012 - 20:01

Can I use this as my sig?

:cool:

I dunno what is more funny, uncompetetive car or Grosjean beating Kimi :p

#1304 One

One
  • Member

  • 6,527 posts
  • Joined: May 06

Posted 04 November 2012 - 20:07

Grosjean is a French Version of Sato, over driving racer as of now, while Kimi.... Just fine...

#1305 Music Lover

Music Lover
  • Member

  • 359 posts
  • Joined: June 09

Posted 04 November 2012 - 21:26

There is no need to put down Grosjean after Kimi's todays performance. Leave it up, boys.

Well...he almost destroyed Kimis victory!


#1306 DrF

DrF
  • Member

  • 1,546 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 05 November 2012 - 00:04

Anyone want to put money on Kovalinen replacing Grosjean at Lotus next year?

Disclaimer: I haven't checked the silly season thread recently, but last I heard was that neither driver has a contract for 2013. Add to that Heikki is a former employee and Romaine's inability to stay out of trouble this year and before.

#1307 Jimisgod

Jimisgod
  • Member

  • 2,848 posts
  • Joined: July 09

Posted 05 November 2012 - 00:07

Anyone want to put money on Kovalinen replacing Grosjean at Lotus next year?

Disclaimer: I haven't checked the silly season thread recently, but last I heard was that neither driver has a contract for 2013. Add to that Heikki is a former employee and Romaine's inability to stay out of trouble this year and before.


:rotfl: Heikki? Might as well go for Kamui, at least he hasn't proved himself to be a failure in a top car yet. At his peak Heikki was little more than a post-accident Massa.

Case in point, 2008: Lewis 1st, Heikki 7th. 2009: Lewis 5th, Heikki 12th.

He may do better than Grosjean, but more than half the field could.

Edited by Jimisgod, 05 November 2012 - 00:11.


#1308 scheivlak

scheivlak
  • Member

  • 11,900 posts
  • Joined: August 01

Posted 05 November 2012 - 00:11

I still can't help but chuckle about this one :D

Grosjean by quite a large margin. Raikkonen is only there for the money, while Grosjean seems hyper-motivated. If I was a betting man, I'd bet on Raikkonen not completing the season due to lack of motivation.

Now I'm ready to be torn into by the army of Kimi fans. ;)

Nah, we have too much fun :p

#1309 DrF

DrF
  • Member

  • 1,546 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 05 November 2012 - 00:17

:rotfl: Heikki? Might as well go for Kamui, at least he hasn't proved himself to be a failure in a top car yet. At his peak Heikki was little more than a post-accident Massa.

Case in point, 2008: Lewis 1st, Heikki 7th. 2009: Lewis 5th, Heikki 12th.

He may do better than Grosjean, but more than half the field could.

Not that Heikki had #1 status in the team or anything.

#1310 Jimisgod

Jimisgod
  • Member

  • 2,848 posts
  • Joined: July 09

Posted 05 November 2012 - 00:35

Not that Heikki had #1 status in the team or anything.


Funny. I thought all the modern day whinging about McLaren concerned their equality for drivers, such as Button and Hamilton. So why does Massa not get a glorious No.2 exemption for not actually having finished 7 places behind Alonso on two occasions?

Heikki scored a grand total of 3 podiums to Lewis' 15 in the McLaren. He had his chance, I'd rather see what Sutil, Di Resta, Kobayashi, Jamie A. or even one of the rookies could do in the 2013 car.

Personally, I think Dan R. has proven to be one of the more interesting drivers Lotus could have chosen. He and Hulkenberg would demolish Grosjean if not match Kimi.

#1311 DrF

DrF
  • Member

  • 1,546 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 05 November 2012 - 02:18

Funny. I thought all the modern day whinging about McLaren concerned their equality for drivers, such as Button and Hamilton. So why does Massa not get a glorious No.2 exemption for not actually having finished 7 places behind Alonso on two occasions?

Heikki scored a grand total of 3 podiums to Lewis' 15 in the McLaren. He had his chance, I'd rather see what Sutil, Di Resta, Kobayashi, Jamie A. or even one of the rookies could do in the 2013 car.

Personally, I think Dan R. has proven to be one of the more interesting drivers Lotus could have chosen. He and Hulkenberg would demolish Grosjean if not match Kimi.

Any of those guys would've struggled against Hamilton, especially considering what happened the year before. Heikki was always heavier. His job was to help Lewis win the wdc and he did his job, which is why I want him in the other Lotus.

#1312 Wander

Wander
  • Member

  • 2,284 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 05 November 2012 - 02:39

I still can't help but chuckle about this one :D


Nah, we have too much fun :p


Oh dear. There were quite a few of these people who were sure of Räikkönen failing, weren't there? I remember a few posts by other members being dug up earlier, possibly in other threads.

#1313 Seanspeed

Seanspeed
  • Member

  • 14,622 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 05 November 2012 - 03:27

Personally, I think Dan R. has proven to be one of the more interesting drivers Lotus could have chosen. He and Hulkenberg would demolish Grosjean if not match Kimi.

Ricciardo has been hard to judge, along with Vergne, because of a clearly inferior car to most of the midfield.

Hulkenberg I agree is very good and may very well be a match for Grosjean, but I highly doubt there'd be any 'smashing' going on. Kimi can be beat, but I dont there's many drivers on the grid who can make him look ordinary. Grosjean seems to be lacking a little lately and I think its cuz he's been overly cautious instead of his usual rambunctious(sp?) self, but he's a very good driver.

Honestly, Hulkenberg and Grosjean I think will be two of the future star drivers in the sport. They may not reach Alonso/Lewis/Vettel-levels of success, but I think they both have very good careers ahead of them.

#1314 Ze Bum

Ze Bum
  • Member

  • 236 posts
  • Joined: June 08

Posted 05 November 2012 - 08:58

:rotfl: Heikki? Might as well go for Kamui, at least he hasn't proved himself to be a failure in a top car yet. At his peak Heikki was little more than a post-accident Massa.

Case in point, 2008: Lewis 1st, Heikki 7th. 2009: Lewis 5th, Heikki 12th.

He may do better than Grosjean, but more than half the field could.


Heikki and McLaren was not a good combination, that's for sure.

But he was very good in the Enstone team in his rookie year. So good that McLaren hired him. :D

Maybe Kimi can have a word with Lopez. He would be lonely in the drivers' parades without Heikki in F1. :|


#1315 ICEBALL

ICEBALL
  • Member

  • 163 posts
  • Joined: October 09

Posted 05 November 2012 - 09:39

Heikki and McLaren was not a good combination, that's for sure.

But he was very good in the Enstone team in his rookie year. So good that McLaren hired him. :D

Maybe Kimi can have a word with Lopez. He would be lonely in the drivers' parades without Heikki in F1. :|


No .... he will have Bottas ...the new finland's star

#1316 Torsion

Torsion
  • Member

  • 627 posts
  • Joined: February 12

Posted 05 November 2012 - 10:18

It is too late now, but I think Hulkenberg is probably the best out of the rookies. He seems to be consistent and can't recall any significant mistakes over the year. Maldanado is probably another choice, he seems to be driving better now (and also brings a lot of cash).

Having said that, I am not convinced that it is absolutely necessary to replace Romain. A bit surprised that he hasn't been keeping up with Kimi over the past few weekends, but during the latter part of the year, he hasn't always had the same equipment. Just out of curiosity, do we know whether they were running the same car this weekend?

Edited by Torsion, 05 November 2012 - 10:19.


#1317 Wander

Wander
  • Member

  • 2,284 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 05 November 2012 - 10:20

Hulk is no rookie, but I agree that he might be the best thing out there after the obvious top 5 or 6 guys.

#1318 Ze Bum

Ze Bum
  • Member

  • 236 posts
  • Joined: June 08

Posted 05 November 2012 - 11:04

No .... he will have Bottas ...the new finland's star


And Vettel will always hang around him anyway. Trying to learn more Finnish. :p


#1319 swerved

swerved
  • Member

  • 3,688 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 26 November 2012 - 09:56

I still can't help but chuckle about this one :D



I've had a chuckle at some of the quotes as well, When the results are in, and the fat lady has done the thing with her vocal chords i like looking back on threads like these, just to get a feel for how the reality of things might differ from the expectations, this thread reminded me of the first "Button to McLaren" thread. Here are a few that made me chuckle. I'll start with a quote of my own, since that one also proved to be incorrect.


"I've already said that Grosjean wont be a pushover"


"Imo a lot of people thinks Kimi will beat Grosjean, and I have the feeling Grosjean is not only going to beat Kimi but destroy him."

"Imo Grosjean will be the "rookie of the year" (well, despite being Alonso team mate for me he´s still a rookie), and he will clearly overpace Kimi. He has the talent to be the new "Alain Prost"."

"Great thing is, qualifying has never been his specialty. He's a better racer than qualifier, much like Lewis" <--Grosjean, btw, just in case anyones wondering.

"and Kimi is about 7 years past his use by date, so I think Romain will surprise a lot of people."

"Im going to stick my neck out and say that Grosjean will finish above Kimi in the wdc. There i said it"

"My opinion is that Grosjean has been, is and will be better, and I feel the case for this is pretty strong."

"Lotus should focus to Romain, he is the future for them. Younger, faster, cheaper contract. Once he gets consistent, he is money."

"No matter what happened today, at the end of the year, Grosjean will most likely be ahead of Raikkonen in the standings. Now he is clearly the faster driver of the two."

"Actually my bet is Romain taking the first win if it ever happens. There is just so much bad luck that this guy can take on 1st lap incidents.. Kimi even if he qualifies 5 he goes back after lap 1, and that is not how you win a race with this highly competitive grid."


"Luckaly Grosjean is such a massive talent and will have more bright races ahead of him. The results will speak for themselves."*

*Not bolded in original quote.


So, there's a little look back at peoples instincts, feelings, expectations and predictions, and as pointed out, the results certainly do speak for themselves.

Points KR 207
RG 96

Wins KR 1
RG 0


Races Completed KR All 20
RG 12/20 (12/19 If you dont count his self inflicted Ban)


Points scoring positions KR 19/20
RG 10/20

Podiums KR 7
RG 3



There we have it, now, as i said somewhere around the beginning of this thread, I quite like Romain, or rather, i did, I liked his enthusiasm, his openness and approachability, and of course, the flashes of real racer that he occasionally showed, a couple of times this season though, he's shown a tendency to either blame others for his own mistake, or try and downplay/rationalise his own errors, this, like some of the quotes above, is something of a "feeling", but i sense a subtle change in his character.

When Kimi overdid it and spun in qualifying his answer to the question "What happened", was simply "I spun", not "I spun because of the tyres" or "I spun because of a distraction", just a straightforward admittance that he spun, similarly, when Romain was outqualifying him he simply said "Qualifying isn't going/didn't go as i wanted, Romain is faster" and i just get the sense that Romain is more reluctant to accept responsibility for his own shortcomings.

I feel he has let the team down, they had a great chance for 3rd in WCC, and the extra money that that would bring which would obviously help in the development race, imo if the team aren't looking closely at replacing him, then they should be.

Kimi has scored more than double Romains points, the only other 2 drivers to have done so are a 2 and 3 times WDC, Kimi has finished ahead of both McLarens, one Red Bull and one Ferrari, Romain has finished behind both McLarens, both Red Bulls, and both Ferrari's.

I think now we've seen the season completed, and the points tallied we can only deduce that Kimi has won this particular team battle, and he's done it quite convincingly.








Advertisement

#1320 Wander

Wander
  • Member

  • 2,284 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:07

I always knew Kimi would beat Romain.

Next year is a new year and everybody starts from clean slate. Still, whether Lotus keeps Romain or hires somebody new, I can't see Kimi losing with the form he's been in. If they keep Romain, he must do better. Really there is no other option. I honestly don't think he's the best option they have, but surely there is a lot more to him if he can just cut down on the mistakes. It could be argued, after all, that if Grosjean had not been crashing so much, he could have been quite close to Kimi in the standings in the end (But not ahead, no way).

Edited by Wander, 26 November 2012 - 10:08.


#1321 Pothead4Philosopher

Pothead4Philosopher
  • Member

  • 542 posts
  • Joined: September 12

Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:09



Amen to swerved's conclusion.


EDIT: Had to change format as this popped on a new page.

Edited by Pothead4Philosopher, 26 November 2012 - 10:14.


#1322 Raikkonen94

Raikkonen94
  • Member

  • 529 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:11

Despite Kimi's fantastic comeback season, there is always room for improvement of course. Especially in qualifying Kimi (at start of the season) was not at his best. So maybe with the steering a little bit more to his liking, his second year in the team which makes things easier ofcourse, and a bit better car I really hope Kimi can compete with the top guys again and fight for more victories.

#1323 Pothead4Philosopher

Pothead4Philosopher
  • Member

  • 542 posts
  • Joined: September 12

Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:22

Despite Kimi's fantastic comeback season, there is always room for improvement of course. Especially in qualifying Kimi (at start of the season) was not at his best. So maybe with the steering a little bit more to his liking, his second year in the team which makes things easier ofcourse, and a bit better car I really hope Kimi can compete with the top guys again and fight for more victories.


We can always look for improvements, but let's be honest on the simple fact that Kimi brought the car -- and himself in WDC standings to a place not meant to be. Aided slightly by others misfortunes, but he has been often enough on the other side. That's racing I'd say.

He can only do better if the machinery under him allows it. All there is to it.

As far as Grosjean is the point of conversation -- he should be packing by now. He did cost Lotus team the money 3rd in WCC would have brought and double that by all the wreckage he caused.


#1324 swerved

swerved
  • Member

  • 3,688 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:22

I always knew Kimi would beat Romain.

Next year is a new year and everybody starts from clean slate. Still, whether Lotus keeps Romain or hires somebody new, I can't see Kimi losing with the form he's been in. If they keep Romain, he must do better. Really there is no other option. I honestly don't think he's the best option they have, but surely there is a lot more to him if he can just cut down on the mistakes. It could be argued, after all, that if Grosjean had not been crashing so much, he could have been quite close to Kimi in the standings in the end (But not ahead, no way).



My gut feeling was that Kimi would triumph within the team, but, like many others it seems, i expected it to be closer, next year i hope to see Kimi improving his qualifying performances, as the season progressed he seemed to get more of a grip on them so the trend and momentum is there, and i believe the skill is also. I have to say i'll be surprised if they keep Romain, of course, Boullier is part of his management team, but that team is owned by Lopez as well i think, and as Kamui may well be discovering, its a cut throat results driven world, even for a driver with flair, Romain hasn't been delivering the results. :up: