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Minor change to SC rules


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#1 Gareth

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 11:06

I had a thought about the SC rules.

I think that, with the delta time introduced, they are much improved but I think one further minor change would help it.

At the minute, the 20s in the pitlane under SC conditions loses you a lot less than it does in racing conditions - as your competitors travel less far in those 20s as they are driving to the delta.

My proposed change - under the SC, the pit lane speed limit reduces by a factor equal to average expected lap time divided by the delta lap time. This means that the distance lost to competitors whilst pitting would be roughly equal under SC as it is in the race. This reduces the disadvantage caused to drivers who pit just before the SC period vs those who get their stop in under SC conditions.

Of course, there remain a whole host of "fairness" issues with the SC that the above does nothing to resolve. But if it's a minor step in the right direction in correcting one issue, why not do it?

(and, yes, this thread does demonstrate that I should find something better to do in two week gaps between races :D )

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#2 icecream

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 11:10

but the safety car is like a wildcard. everyone needs to rethink their strategy. it's a good thing.

#3 sharo

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 11:29

If the intention was to preserve as much as possible of fairness, yes. SC rules are written exactly with the opposite in mind. We see that the SC now stays even longer because of the stupid (and somewhat dangerous) unlapping process.
We have also seen rules variations forbidding pit stops during SC or closing and opening the pits. All had no valuable results.
KISS - the more the rules are tweaked for some short term reasons, the worse it gets and the higher the probability of a cock up.

#4 johnmhinds

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 12:08

The safety car period is for the safety for the drivers, marshals and spectators and nothing more.

You're only going to get someone killed if the race director has to divert attention towards things like "fairness" during a safety period.

#5 Seanspeed

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 12:11

If the intention was to preserve as much as possible of fairness, yes. SC rules are written exactly with the opposite in mind. We see that the SC now stays even longer because of the stupid (and somewhat dangerous) unlapping process.
We have also seen rules variations forbidding pit stops during SC or closing and opening the pits. All had no valuable results.
KISS - the more the rules are tweaked for some short term reasons, the worse it gets and the higher the probability of a cock up.

Having the pits open I think has been a success. This is one of the first times the SC has created any controversy since what, the restart in Monaco in 2010 where Schumi passed Alonso with one corner to go? I think the rules right now aren't so bad and have been improved from what we had a few years ago.

And I like the unlapping thing. It takes a little longer, but these are guys that need to get out of the way of the big guys anyways. It makes sense for them to just go ahead and get out of the way ahead of time so they dont just sit there and spend 30 seconds pulling over on the restart lap for all the cars lapping them coming through in a huge bunch.

As for Gareth's idea, I like it. There was a push to reduce the pit lane speed limits already before the season, so its not like the cars couldn't handle it. I'd be for it. The only problem I see is that cars who are in a position to get into the pits BEFORE the safety car is deployed(as in, they see that one will obviously be put out and they're coming right up to pitlane), they'll get the advantage of not having a lowered speed limit, which is a little unfair.

#6 Gareth

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 12:54

The safety car period is for the safety for the drivers, marshals and spectators and nothing more.

You're only going to get someone killed if the race director has to divert attention towards things like "fairness" during a safety period.


It'd be handled by the ECU. The drivers hit a button to kick in the pit lane speed limiter. The ECU can vary what that limit is, depending upon whether it's race or SC conditions. The speed under SC conditions would be set prior to the race.

So no involvement from the race director at all. And it seems like a pretty simple and easy change to me.

#7 Tsarwash

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 13:02

What is the slowest speed that an F1 car can lap at that doesn't kill the engine ? That is the speed that should go, while behind the SC, and then one final faster lap for the tyres to warm up again, before restart.

#8 One

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 13:08

If it worked well, then no one pits so it makes the racing boring.

#9 ensign14

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 13:09

What is the slowest speed that an F1 car can lap at that doesn't kill the engine ?

Anyone got Yuji Ide's phone number?

#10 SenorSjon

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 13:43

For entertainment purposes, they let the cars unlap themself. The easiest and safest method is letting the backmarkers to get lapped on the straight one lap before the SC goes back to the pit.

Even worse, if backmarkers can rejoin while unlapping, they have warmed up tires and brakes. They can have a serious advantage when getting back on the tail of the leadlap runners when the SC ends.

#11 ExFlagMan

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 16:00

The whole point of the SC is to bunch the cars up to give the marshals as large a 'clear' space as possible to check/clear the track - you really don't want stray cars circulating whilst trying to clear debris, it just makes the process take even longer prolonging the SC period.

OK, some drivers may seem to get an advantage during any one SC intervention, but as Americans say 'what goes round, comes round'.

#12 smitten

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 17:15

Just close the pitlane like they used to do. They only changed the rule because people had to pit for fuel and had a choice of a penalty or stopping on track; no longer a problem.

#13 ExFlagMan

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 17:26

Just close the pitlane like they used to do. They only changed the rule because people had to pit for fuel and had a choice of a penalty or stopping on track; no longer a problem.

Agree completely :clap:

#14 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 21:28

Just close the pitlane like they used to do. They only changed the rule because people had to pit for fuel and had a choice of a penalty or stopping on track; no longer a problem.

how does that make it fair if you had 20+ sec advantage, people pitted and you are left out with old tyres an 0.5 sec gap to sec place?

#15 smitten

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 21:41

how does that make it fair if you had 20+ sec advantage, people pitted and you are left out with old tyres an 0.5 sec gap to sec place?


Nothing about the SC is fair, but it is an evil we now consider necessary. Being stuck on old tyres is an issue related to the artifical "racing" imposed on us by Pirelli tyres and for another thread.

IF SCs are for safety then we should not allow teams to obtain strategic advantages other than closing gaps (which is the necessary evil). If the public want SCs to re-invigorate a race then I despair.


#16 Henrik B

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 22:00

And I like the unlapping thing. It takes a little longer, but these are guys that need to get out of the way of the big guys anyways. It makes sense for them to just go ahead and get out of the way ahead of time so they dont just sit there and spend 30 seconds pulling over on the restart lap for all the cars lapping them coming through in a huge bunch.


They should let the cars on the lead lap pass those lapped instead, tucking them in behind. Would take far less time. That would make the last car lapped seriously disadvantaged compared to that car not yet lapped, but I'm willing to sacrifice that.

#17 olliek88

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 22:12

If there was one thing i'd change with the SC rules it be to follow the same process as the Indycar series. Instead of lapped cars unlapping themselves, which takes a fair amount of time, send the lapped cars through the pitlane, this would get them to the back of the train in 1/10 of the time and reduce the danger involved in the existing process.

#18 ExFlagMan

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Posted 30 June 2012 - 08:32

I guess the real solution is for drivers to stop running into each other and causing the SC to be needed :rotfl:

Anyone else thing that maybe Red Bull/Renault should be censured for leaving a car they new was about to fail out at the front of the field and thus likely to cause a problem for other competitors :evil: