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Lotus E20 - 2012 - Part II


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#1851 artista

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 21:41

i think they are a trustworthy source when it comes to news/information about french racing teams - renault, citroen

For things related with Citroën they are, definitely, really good

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#1852 DarkknightRises

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 22:13

well...it wont works immediately.....!!

#1853 JRodrigues

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 22:54

Where is that news? In the print version of the publication?

#1854 DarkknightRises

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 00:21

if anything, the blown diffuser will hv an impact on their 2013 car...

they are newbie on this field in comparison to the top 3

its a complex system..and we know how they screw up with FEB last year...

#1855 quidam

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 05:23

Auto Hebdo is wrong, not at Suzuka But Korea  ;)

Suzuka = DRD (drag reduction device)

Korea = Exhausts


You can't test both together like Mercedes.

#1856 wrcva

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 17:43

‘Double DRS’ has slowed Lotus’ development – Mika Salo
“If the developments do not work in Japan, they will fall out of the championship battle,” former Sauber and Toyota driver Salo told the Finnish broadcaster MTV3. ... I think it’s likely that they have focused so much on the double DRS that many other things have been missed, and it has slowed down the development of the car overall”. link



#1857 Chomsky

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 18:31

Salo is right. They knew from when first testing it that there wasn't much if any performance gain. Reminds me of the Forward exhausts from last year.

#1858 Vesuvius

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 18:36

Salo is right. They knew from when first testing it that there wasn't much if any performance gain. Reminds me of the Forward exhausts from last year.


No, there is gain...that's why they still focus on it and will bring it to Suzuka. I don't think focusing on ddrs is the only reason...also tracks didn't suit for Lotus.

#1859 grunge

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 15:50

Finally,Lotus listen to me! :) ...Time for a coanda diffuser in Korea.

This would be more directed towards next year's development plan though..Lotus had to do it..this year would be more about just getting to terms with the concept and penning down the basic data

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#1860 Trust

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 15:58

If they nail(but unlikely)it with these aero package, then they could win the title with Kimi still. They just have to take a few points of Alonso at least in Suzuka.

#1861 MadYarpen

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 16:43

If they nail(but unlikely)it with these aero package, then they could win the title with Kimi still. They just have to take a few points of Alonso at least in Suzuka.

Romain knows the way

#1862 Kyo

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 16:47

Romain knows the way

:rotfl: :rotfl:

#1863 grunge

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 18:36

Dont expect anything from the Exhaust this year..The rest of the grid has updated the design all through the year,while we're just starting on the path..Better late than never..

All money's on the DDRS..Suzuka,here we come

#1864 Torsion

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 18:49

Dont expect anything from the Exhaust this year..The rest of the grid has updated the design all through the year,while we're just starting on the path..Better late than never..

All money's on the DDRS..Suzuka,here we come


Let's not get too excited about the exhaust, it only seems to be a rumor at the moment? and only being mentioned by one media outlet?

#1865 grunge

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 18:53

Let's not get too excited about the exhaust, it only seems to be a rumor at the moment? and only being mentioned by one media outlet?

Yup,nothing from any other major source yet.

#1866 Vesuvius

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 19:01

Finally,Lotus listen to me! :) ...Time for a coanda diffuser in Korea.

This would be more directed towards next year's development plan though..Lotus had to do it..this year would be more about just getting to terms with the concept and penning down the basic data


There is no confirmation about coanda edhaust..and such a system doesn't maybe eve work in Lotus that well.

#1867 OSX

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 22:28

Jerome got lucky on Saturday...

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#1868 Wander

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 23:49

One of the best looking F1 cars ever, that. (is it 97 or 98?)

Edited by Wander, 30 September 2012 - 23:50.


#1869 Kyo

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 00:16

One of the best looking F1 cars ever, that. (is it 97 or 98?)

It's Senna car.

#1870 Wander

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 01:18

Yeah, and I'm asking which model it is (t97 or t98).

Edited by Wander, 01 October 2012 - 01:19.


#1871 Kyo

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 01:32

Yeah, and I'm asking which model it is (t97 or t98).

ahhh, i believe it's the 98.

#1872 Torsion

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 11:15

We’re bringing a few promising updates including our “device”


http://www.lotusf1te...GP.html?lang=en

Could this be an hint at a new exhaust system? Since they already introduced a new rear-wing and a floor, not sure what else can providing a significant aero advantage.

Edit: could also be a new front-wing/side-pod configuration I guess

Edited by Torsion, 01 October 2012 - 11:24.


#1873 grunge

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 15:03

or just another modification of the front wing cascades..they had a new version of those in Singapore too.

#1874 grunge

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 15:13

READY FOR REDEMPTION – JAPANESE GP PREVIEW WITH JAMES ALLISON [Q&A]

http://www.lotusf1te...GP.html?lang=fr

TALK US THROUGH THE SINGAPORE RACE WEEKEND…
If the race was in isolation then I think we could say ‘it was just a bad race, let’s put it behind us’, however it was the third in a sequence of uninspiring performances and therefore something that we need to arrest to ensure that we make the most of the six remaining races this season and give ourselves a little more of the bounce that we had earlier in the year.

HAVE WE IDENTIFIED WHY SINGAPORE FAILED TO LIVE UP TO EXPECTATIONS ?
There wasn’t a sole reason as to why we were sub-par in Singapore. The first explanation is that we didn’t do a particularly good job on Friday with our starting set up on the car, so it took us until Saturday morning to be somewhere close to the mark and this leaves you a bit behind in the game. Secondly, some of the upgrades we had applied for Singapore did not perform, causing us to revert to an earlier configuration of the car. In the meantime the lion’s share of our competitors had moved forwards. Finally, in the all-important qualifying session neither driver had a good lap when it counted. Kimi had a mistake at T1 on his Q2 lap and Romain had a rather dramatic Q3 lap meaning he wasn’t able to repeat his earlier performances. From that point onwards, if you’re back down the grid in Qualifying then that’s usually where you’ll stay on a tight street course.

HOW DIFFICULT IS IT INTRODUCING AND VALIDATING UPGRADES WITH NO TESTING AND WEATHER CAUSING REDUCED RUNNING ON A FRIDAY ?
The simulation methods in the factory are good, allowing around 70% - 80% of the upgrades that we put on the car to work straight away with no problem. Of those that suffer birth pangs, a fair proportion are eventually found to perform as expected when given a second hearing. When you’re not running dedicated track testing there’s a whole raft of variables you’re not in control of. The drivers might not get clear laps and with the track constantly evolving plus tyres not always being a new set for each run you do not have a stable baseline to compare against. These factors can cloud the assessment of a new part – so if you are struggling then you very often remove them from the car out of an abundance of caution and look for a suitable opportunity in the future to have a second go with them.

LOOKING TO SUZUKA NOW, HOW DO YOU FEEL IT WILL SUIT THE E20 ?
It’s a track with a wide range of cornering speeds, but there are several very fast turns in the Silverstone mould ; in particular Turn 1, the ‘S’ bends and130R. These are features that have suited us so far but it’s a tight season and, as we’ve shown, you really need to hit the ground running in order to have a good weekend.

HOW DO YOU THINK OUR CHANCES IN THE CHAMPIONSHIP ARE GOING BOTH FOR DRIVERS’ AND CONSTRUCTORS’ ?
Fourteen races in and we’ve had a handful of results that have allowed Ferrari to open up a small gap on us in the championship. We fight each weekend with strong and dedicated opposition who will leave us for dead if we take our eye off the ball for one moment, but the great thing about this sport is that the opportunity to do the same is always there for your team as well. Every weekend you have a chance at redemption and we’re fortunate to have a number of items that we believe will improve our car over the remaining races. The gap to Ferrari is small in terms of the points available, so our goal over the next six races is to overtake them in the championship and to put Kimi back on a path that will allow him to close the gap to the front.

Edited by grunge, 01 October 2012 - 15:15.


#1875 Vesuvius

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 15:38

READY FOR REDEMPTION – JAPANESE GP PREVIEW WITH JAMES ALLISON [Q&A]

http://www.lotusf1te...GP.html?lang=fr

TALK US THROUGH THE SINGAPORE RACE WEEKEND…
If the race was in isolation then I think we could say ‘it was just a bad race, let’s put it behind us’, however it was the third in a sequence of uninspiring performances and therefore something that we need to arrest to ensure that we make the most of the six remaining races this season and give ourselves a little more of the bounce that we had earlier in the year.

HAVE WE IDENTIFIED WHY SINGAPORE FAILED TO LIVE UP TO EXPECTATIONS ?
There wasn’t a sole reason as to why we were sub-par in Singapore. The first explanation is that we didn’t do a particularly good job on Friday with our starting set up on the car, so it took us until Saturday morning to be somewhere close to the mark and this leaves you a bit behind in the game. Secondly, some of the upgrades we had applied for Singapore did not perform, causing us to revert to an earlier configuration of the car. In the meantime the lion’s share of our competitors had moved forwards. Finally, in the all-important qualifying session neither driver had a good lap when it counted. Kimi had a mistake at T1 on his Q2 lap and Romain had a rather dramatic Q3 lap meaning he wasn’t able to repeat his earlier performances. From that point onwards, if you’re back down the grid in Qualifying then that’s usually where you’ll stay on a tight street course.

HOW DIFFICULT IS IT INTRODUCING AND VALIDATING UPGRADES WITH NO TESTING AND WEATHER CAUSING REDUCED RUNNING ON A FRIDAY ?
The simulation methods in the factory are good, allowing around 70% - 80% of the upgrades that we put on the car to work straight away with no problem. Of those that suffer birth pangs, a fair proportion are eventually found to perform as expected when given a second hearing. When you’re not running dedicated track testing there’s a whole raft of variables you’re not in control of. The drivers might not get clear laps and with the track constantly evolving plus tyres not always being a new set for each run you do not have a stable baseline to compare against. These factors can cloud the assessment of a new part – so if you are struggling then you very often remove them from the car out of an abundance of caution and look for a suitable opportunity in the future to have a second go with them.

LOOKING TO SUZUKA NOW, HOW DO YOU FEEL IT WILL SUIT THE E20 ?
It’s a track with a wide range of cornering speeds, but there are several very fast turns in the Silverstone mould ; in particular Turn 1, the ‘S’ bends and130R. These are features that have suited us so far but it’s a tight season and, as we’ve shown, you really need to hit the ground running in order to have a good weekend.

HOW DO YOU THINK OUR CHANCES IN THE CHAMPIONSHIP ARE GOING BOTH FOR DRIVERS’ AND CONSTRUCTORS’ ?
Fourteen races in and we’ve had a handful of results that have allowed Ferrari to open up a small gap on us in the championship. We fight each weekend with strong and dedicated opposition who will leave us for dead if we take our eye off the ball for one moment, but the great thing about this sport is that the opportunity to do the same is always there for your team as well. Every weekend you have a chance at redemption and we’re fortunate to have a number of items that we believe will improve our car over the remaining races. The gap to Ferrari is small in terms of the points available, so our goal over the next six races is to overtake them in the championship and to put Kimi back on a path that will allow him to close the gap to the front.



Finally there is a clear message that Kimi did make a mistake in his q2 lap with fresh tyres and that was it :)

Allison knows what he is talking, updates don't always work and you need to try them again...example McLarens updates didn't work at silverstone and they were nowhere...but in the next race at hockenheim they already had the best car :)

now he seems more carefull with his words about how strong they should be or could be...it's good, so we won't have too high hopes at this point.


#1876 grunge

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 12:12

Romain Grosjean: Victory not vital for Lotus in 2012

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/103009

"If you win one race and then the next race you are nowhere, that's not really what we want," Grosjean told AUTOSPORT.

"We have been consistently at the front, and even a more difficult race like Singapore we still finished sixth and seventh.

"We are at the front, we are gaining experience and holding our competitiveness. We started the season not knowing what the car would be like after a difficult 2011, and we showed that we are strong."

The 26-year-old believes that Lotus, which is set to retain its driver line-up for next year, will have a better chance to win races in 2013.

"If we can win a race this year of course we will try to grab it," he added. "But if it's not this year I'm sure it will come next year.

"We have been consistently at the front, getting good data and good experience for the future.

"It will be much easier next year to go to race weekends knowing the track, knowing the team, knowing what we did the year before and being ready straight away."


#1877 Verderer

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 12:57

What strange talk... I guess by Lotus Romain really means himself? I mean, a win is vital for both Lotus and especially for Kimi?

Edited by Verderer, 02 October 2012 - 12:57.


#1878 korzeniow

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 12:59

Wise words form Grosjean.

But if they won't manage to win this season this will be a big failure from the team and the drivers

#1879 KimiSolberg

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 13:00

Romain Grosjean: Victory not likely for Lotus in 2012

"We have been consistently at the front, If by the front you mean me crashing out at the start."
"It's starting to sink in that we probably won't win a race this year. I mean. We have to get really lucky. I've decided to bring unstable druggies to the paddock hoping they assault drivers from the other teams. But I've been doing that for a while and suddenly Maldonado got a seat."


:p

Edited by KimiSolberg, 02 October 2012 - 13:04.


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#1880 korzeniow

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 13:06

Romain Grosjean: Victory not likely for Lotus in 2012

"We have been consistently at the front, If by the front you mean me crashing out at the start."
"It's starting to sink in that we probably won't win a race this year. I mean. We have to get really lucky. I've decided to bring unstable druggies to the paddock hoping they assault drivers from the other teams. But I've been doing that for a while and suddenly Maldonado got a seat."


:p



That's clever... not

#1881 OSX

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 13:12

What strange talk... I guess by Lotus Romain really means himself? I mean, a win is vital for both Lotus and especially for Kimi?

Well, Grosjean is nowhere in the WDC race so...


#1882 artista

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 13:15

What strange talk... I guess by Lotus Romain really means himself? I mean, a win is vital for both Lotus and especially for Kimi?

Difficult to know what people really means, and you never know when they mean 'I' when they say 'we'. But he's right in one thing: winning one race and being nowhere the next one brings 25 points, being second in two consecutive races brings 36 points; from that point of view it's better to be consistent than being able of winning a race one weekend and nothing the next.
Of course, the best option is to win races every weekend, but it's not realistic for them.

#1883 korzeniow

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 13:19

What strange talk... I guess by Lotus Romain really means himself? I mean, a win is vital for both Lotus and especially for Kimi?


I don't think he considers himself as unable to win when comparing to Kimi, especially when he pushed for it on two occasions.

It looks like he plays down expectations for the reminder of the season. They are on a strike of bad races after all.

Grosjean went a little philosophical there

Our only hope for the win lies in the updates

#1884 OSX

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 13:24

That said if Romain represents the general attitude within the Lotus team right now it is slightly worrying. By saying they're content with what they have achieved means that they lack the needed ambition to turn Kimi's third place in the driver standings into number one and while it is obviously very hard they should still go for it 110%.


#1885 korzeniow

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 13:27

That said if Romain represents the general attitude within the Lotus team right now it is slightly worrying. By saying they're content with what they have achieved means that they lack the needed ambition to turn Kimi's third place in the driver standings into number one and while it is obviously very hard they should still go for it 110%.


They are bringing updates, aren't they. Grosjean plays supporting role to Raikkonen. So what more would you expect?



#1886 quidam

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 13:50

They don't dream like Kimi fan, Their car is not at the level of Red Bull or McLaren. They are doing the most they can do and will see where they are at the end.

#1887 beute

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 14:18

I don't think he considers himself as unable to win when comparing to Kimi, especially when he pushed for it on two occasions.


when did happen though?
i dont remember him pushing the leading driver/drivers to the end of the last lap in any race this season.

In hungary and bahrain he had phases where he was the fastest man on the track, but he ended up ~10 seconds behind second place in the end instead.
and valencia he was hardly the fastest, that was easily vettel, he had a brief period of maybe like 2 laps where he pushed alonso for the lead before he shared the fate of vettel, but I would hardly call that "pushed for victory".

Grosjean has undoubtedly been fast and has beaten kimi on some weekends,
but whenever a Lotus was capable of winning, it was Kimi that ended up chasing the eventual victors.

that doesnt mean he cant do it though!
who knows, maybe one of those races he ruined with his start collisions could've been one where HE would chase the eventual leaders or even win himself.


#1888 korzeniow

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 14:34

@beute, I don't see what so important in finishing in second place. Point is Grosjean fought for the win in Valencia and Hungary.

Next time somenone ask other criterias about frighting from lap one, another will have criteria about quali.



#1889 OSX

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 15:28

They are bringing updates, aren't they. Grosjean plays supporting role to Raikkonen. So what more would you expect?

You missed my point which was that if Lotus are content with what they have achieved they may be lack that last crucial bit of ambition and drive that is needed in trying to push Kimi and Lotus at the top in the remaining races. I know they're bringing updates and Grosjean has promised his support to Kimi but if what he said echoes the views of the Lotus brass it is worrisome.

#1890 Seanspeed

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 15:34

Its a throwaway comment. They'll go for a win if they think they can do it. They're just probably stating that the win may be a bit elusive but that consistency is a key factor in fighting for championship positions(both in WDC and WCC).

Edited by Seanspeed, 02 October 2012 - 15:35.


#1891 Kyo

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 16:34

After the first races he said that the win was not far away... now winning is not that important and if it not come this year it will certainly come next year. Well, consistency is important but this not exclude grabbing some wins, and wins are extremely important for a team, since it brings lots of exposure, and thats what they want.

Fact is, if you have a chance to win you better win because you never know if you will have another chance.

#1892 rijole1

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 16:54

That said if Romain represents the general attitude within the Lotus team right now it is slightly worrying. By saying they're content with what they have achieved means that they lack the needed ambition to turn Kimi's third place in the driver standings into number one and while it is obviously very hard they should still go for it 110%.


That worries me too. Hope they haven't given up yet.

#1893 Skinnyguy

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 17:06

But if they won't manage to win this season this will be a big failure from the team and the drivers


They won't win, and it won't be a failure. They'll still be season's main surprise and most improved team. From fighting for points, they have gone to getting loads of podiums and mounting a decent challenge for both titles, with a good but not top car.

That's far from a failure to any of the parts involved.

#1894 Viryfan

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 17:30

They won't win, and it won't be a failure. They'll still be season's main surprise and most improved team. From fighting for points, they have gone to getting loads of podiums and mounting a decent challenge for both titles, with a good but not top car.

That's far from a failure to any of the parts involved.


I completely agree.

Even there were gremlins this year, considering that they missed 4 days of testing, + a nearly rookie/F1 returnee from Rally ,+ lower budget....

All in all it's not a bad year.

#1895 rijole1

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 17:36

They won't win, and it won't be a failure. They'll still be season's main surprise and most improved team. From fighting for points, they have gone to getting loads of podiums and mounting a decent challenge for both titles, with a good but not top car.

That's far from a failure to any of the parts involved.


Exactly, I think this year has already been a success for Lotus.
But I really hope they still go on trying to catch that win :)

Edited by rijole1, 02 October 2012 - 17:36.


#1896 fum3s

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 20:51

Its a throwaway comment. They'll go for a win if they think they can do it. They're just probably stating that the win may be a bit elusive but that consistency is a key factor in fighting for championship positions(both in WDC and WCC).

Quite so. I think he's just pointing out that Lotus is in a better place than Williams or Mercedes, despite their wins.

#1897 korzeniow

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 20:56

They won't win, and it won't be a failure. They'll still be season's main surprise and most improved team. From fighting for points, they have gone to getting loads of podiums and mounting a decent challenge for both titles, with a good but not top car.

That's far from a failure to any of the parts involved.


From 2011 prespective, no doubt it's great success. From 2012 having the best car middle of the season perspective: not scoring a win is a failure.

Edited by korzeniow, 02 October 2012 - 20:57.


#1898 2ms

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 21:59

From 2011 prespective, no doubt it's great success. From 2012 having the best car middle of the season perspective: not scoring a win is a failure.


There's that old "Lotus has the best car" meme some troll invented the instant Kimi blew everyone's expectations out of the water first race weekend 2012... This is the Lotus E20 thread. People around here actually know the car. Not the place you're going to be able to sell that crap.

#1899 Sinceref189

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 22:14

There's that old "Lotus has the best car" meme some troll invented the instant Kimi blew everyone's expectations out of the water first race weekend 2012... This is the Lotus E20 thread. People around here actually know the car. Not the place you're going to be able to sell that crap.

:up: I do love it when people tell it how it is , no bullshit.

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#1900 Skinnyguy

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 22:28

From 2011 prespective, no doubt it's great success. From 2012 having the best car middle of the season perspective: not scoring a win is a failure.


No way. Challenging for both titles is way better than a win here or there. Or would you be happier in Haug's skin than in Boullier's? Is Mercedes season a success because of the win? Really? No. That is a real failure. Is Maldonado's season a success? No, it was a failure.

Lotus has built a good car, Kimi has driven brilliantly and Grosjean has shown great flashes of speed. There's not a hint of failure in any of the elements unless you want to invent them.