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Lotus E20 - 2012 - Part II


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#101 KimiSolberg

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 12:13

Awesome factory tour. Nice to have a break from the endless bickering in these forums :up:

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#102 iotar

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 12:18

Lotus Factory Tour by Speed Hunters

Enjoy :wave:

Some nice technicals.

Very cool. :up: Look at this model of F1 car with all the details but smaller. Like a toy. how cute.

After qualifying in GB Alonso had a long look at Lotus.

#103 Owen

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 12:20

Jon Noble ‏@NobleF1

Five place penalty for Romain Grosjean at the German GP as he needs a new gearbox.

#104 Vesuvius

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 12:29

Jon Noble ‏@NobleF1

Five place penalty for Romain Grosjean at the German GP as he needs a new gearbox.


Bad news :down: they have lot's of technical problems lately

#105 2ms

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 12:37

This is the second time they've had this happen. First time was to Kimi.

#106 Owen

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 13:14

'interesting' upgrades coming
http://www.autosport...t.php/id/101169

#107 MadYarpen

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 13:18

sh!t happens. As if they were too good in qualy:(

#108 Zava

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 13:22

'interesting' upgrades coming
http://www.autosport...t.php/id/101169

that must be some bigger change, not just some tweaking the wings and floor. DDRS, exhaust, or new gizmo? pick your choice. :p

#109 tarmac

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 13:26

Oh well

Team orders need to be placed if Grosjean drops more than 50 points in Germany/Hungary

Edited by tarmac, 13 July 2012 - 13:27.


#110 korzeniow

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 13:28

sh!t happens. As if they were too good in qualy:(


Time to bring up the famous phrase: "Well, that's motor racing".

'interesting' upgrades coming
http://www.autosport...t.php/id/101169


"At the very edge of the brave"? Anyone? :p


#111 cilurnum

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 13:28

Jon Noble ‏@NobleF1

Five place penalty for Romain Grosjean at the German GP as he needs a new gearbox.

Bugger. Reliability has been strong for them over the past few years, but this year some gremlins appear to have crept in.

#112 iotar

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 13:30

How old was this gearbox? Couldn't they change it in Valencia when he didn't finish? Anyway this interesting update is going to be either f-ducted-DRS :eek: that will solve their qualifying problems or it's a colourful-nerd-speak for a new wing which is quite different from the previous one.  ;)

#113 cilurnum

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 13:36

The F-duct DRS is a failure. It's not provided Mercedes with the massive edge that the amount of effort they've put into it would warrant. Allison has remarked on that in the past. They need more downforce, and that means exhaust modifications.

#114 MadYarpen

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 13:40

How old was this gearbox? Couldn't they change it in Valencia when he didn't finish? Anyway this interesting update is going to be either f-ducted-DRS :eek: that will solve their qualifying problems or it's a colourful-nerd-speak for a new wing which is quite different from the previous one.;)

I'm sure that if it had been possible (and not finishing a race makes it legal to change gearbox, right?), they changed it.

Edited by MadYarpen, 13 July 2012 - 13:41.


#115 SpaMaster

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 14:24

Yeah, nice memories. I remember when they build that place, Benetton name on the fence. MS was one of the racing drivers. I have small booklet from the start of 1993 season, with all drivers, tracks. New Benetton base, was also featured there, pictures. Interview with Briatore. New 1993 car.
MS the best winning driver for Enstone. 19 wins , I think.

Yeah, we all know MS is the best for every team out there. Alas, driver is not a runner who wins by himself, there is a car, an eminent number of technical leaders. and numerous engineers who make the winning possible. So, no a driver cannot take credit for all those wins.

#116 ivand911

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 14:53

Yeah, we all know MS is the best for every team out there. Alas, driver is not a runner who wins by himself, there is a car, an eminent number of technical leaders. and numerous engineers who make the winning possible. So, no a driver cannot take credit for all those wins.

Where I said the opposite? He has 19 wins for Benetton. Of course he didn't achieve them alone. All people that worked there get credit for it. Many of them still work there probably.

Edited by ivand911, 13 July 2012 - 15:01.


#117 pizzalover

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 15:51

Sort of makes one wonder how well Lotus would be doing if that brake levelling thingy hadn't been banned. I dare say there'll be a separate thread for this at the end of the season.

Edited by pizzalover, 13 July 2012 - 15:51.


#118 ivand911

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 16:15

Sort of makes one wonder how well Lotus would be doing if that brake levelling thingy hadn't been banned. I dare say there'll be a separate thread for this at the end of the season.

I think they changed the construction of it and still use it. They make it legal. Other just don't know it.

Edited by ivand911, 13 July 2012 - 16:15.


#119 Vesuvius

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 18:09

I think they changed the construction of it and still use it. They make it legal. Other just don't know it.


nope they don't have that system at all, it had to abandoned totally, they would be massively quick with that system.

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#120 JuanDelaCruz

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 23:31

Why not wait for exactly half of the season? Hockenheim should tell us a lot. Can RB repeat Canada/Valencia form? Or can McLaren come back? Or can Ferrari perform well on every track? I have doubts about Ferrari's strength.

Simple: if they can be closer in qualifying the pace is there to fight with anybody except Valencia RB from pole. Whether they end up second or fourth doesn't matter that much as long as it's close. About development: they may be a smaller team but I would guess regular updates are comparable, like floor, wings, suspension. The problems start when there's need for 3 different approaches to exhaust, simultaneous work on exhaust and f-duct, or when it comes to exotic problems in the middle of the season like flexing wings. That's where bigger teams have the edge.

In the meantime it was McLaren who had problems and Ferrari just recently solved them. Most of the tracks should suit them, maybe apart from Monza or I don't know, comparatively Hungaroring. It's not like car will lose its qualities, tyres, high-temperature handling; Silverstone was good, Allison and Raikkonen sounded more optimistic than ever.


And why is that?

Up until now the F2012 is the most consistent point scorer thats why Alonso is leading the WDC & now Ferrari is 2nd in WCC, jumped McLaren & Lotus in the last race..

#121 race addicted

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 23:43

Surely the "interesting updates" features a new exhaust? Lotus' are stone age compared to most others.

#122 iotar

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 06:59

And why is that?

Up until now the F2012 is the most consistent point scorer thats why Alonso is leading the WDC & now Ferrari is 2nd in WCC, jumped McLaren & Lotus in the last race..

About Ferrari you mean? That's only one sentence but OK. It's the worst time to underestimate Ferrari but I was thinking about tyres management relative to competition (Williams, RB, Lotus) and race pace, too. Their best results happened when they weren't the fastest (Valencia, Malaysia) although to be fair they were up there on merit in Barcelona, Canada and Silverstone. We'll see, I was dead wrong about their chances in Silverstone.

About "interesting" update: if we're thinking fancy and not regular parts like suspension, floor or wings the options are:
- f-ducted DRS
- McLaren type exhaust
- McLaren style brake ducts, see: different tyre warming for qualifying and races.

#123 korzeniow

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 08:57

Surely the "interesting updates" features a new exhaust? Lotus' are stone age compared to most others.


Exhaust modification I would classify rather as bigger update.

BTW in the last Flying Lap Scarbs admitted he has no idea why E20 is so quick

Edited by korzeniow, 14 July 2012 - 08:57.


#124 korzeniow

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 09:53

@ivanF1
#F1 Not only #McLaren is thinking to use the #Ferrari's suspension. The front pull-rod is under study by #Lotus too for next season car


sweet!

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#125 Carlo's

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 14:37

BTW in the last Flying Lap Scarbs admitted he has no idea why E20 is so quick


Hahah, it made my laugh hard. E20 is mighty quick and everyone has no f*****g why is that :D This is beautiful :cat:

As for front pull-rod suspension, I believe that most of the pack will assess this solution. Good thing is that front runners won't copy Lotus' solutions, because they don't really know what to copy :rotfl:

Edited by Carlo's, 14 July 2012 - 14:38.


#126 Anja

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 15:43

Hahah, it made my laugh hard. E20 is mighty quick and everyone has no f*****g why is that :D This is beautiful :cat:

Yeah. And when you consider the fact that their exhaust solution is probably the simplest, it really makes you wonder...

Edited by Anja, 14 July 2012 - 15:43.


#127 Vesuvius

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 16:20

James Allison said that the reasons why they are so fast, are that the car is so light and there is no holes in that aren't needed, he has taken that method from Red Bull and car is designed with extra details with this method. Also new extra light suspension designes from the guy who they took from Red Bull is their advantage.

#128 Puhoon

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 16:34

BTW in the last Flying Lap Scarbs admitted he has no idea why E20 is so quick


Must be the drivers.

#129 Skinnyguy

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 16:44

Must be the drivers.


Wrong answer. This is not Alonso´s thread. All the other drivers go fast only because of the car, they are mortals under the tyrany of physics. :smoking:

#130 908T

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 17:36

Wrong answer. This is not Alonso´s thread. All the other drivers go fast only because of the car, they are mortals under the tyrany of physics. :smoking:


.6 seconds/lap faster than the mortals! Exactly! :up:

#131 cilurnum

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 21:20

BTW in the last Flying Lap Scarbs admitted he has no idea why E20 is so quick

Nobody does. That's why you've got people like Adrian Newey and Alonso looking at it.

#132 cilurnum

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 21:23

As for front pull-rod suspension, I believe that most of the pack will assess this solution.

Most teams will assess it, if nothing else to work out just why Ferrari have decided to implement it. As for whether other teams will use it, I'm not so sure.

#133 Mauseri

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 22:19

Must be the drivers.

:up:

#134 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 11:03

Most teams will assess it, if nothing else to work out just why Ferrari have decided to implement it. As for whether other teams will use it, I'm not so sure.


Yeah, that would be really inconvenient for you.

#135 cilurnum

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 09:32

Yeah, that would be really inconvenient for you.

As per usual we shall see, and as per usual I'm not seeing any arguments or discussion on the subject. :rolleyes:

#136 Zava

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 07:53

from the 'most improved team: Lotus' AS plus article:
http://plus.autospor...d-team-in-2012/

The interesting thing, though, is that if there's a number one in the eyes of the team, it's very possibly Grosjean. In Valencia, for example, there was one new front wing for the race and it was on the Frenchman's car. Enquiries as to why – did Kimi perhaps not prefer it? – resulted in a "no comment"


didn't they have different updates for that weekend? ISTR Kimi had floor updates, and Romain wing updates, or something like that.

#137 hello86

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 09:08

from the 'most improved team: Lotus' AS plus article:
http://plus.autospor...d-team-in-2012/


didn't they have different updates for that weekend? ISTR Kimi had floor updates, and Romain wing updates, or something like that.


Kimi said at the last GP that he was okay with it :)
Guess that next time such stuff happens Kimi will get the new part

#138 Vesuvius

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 12:17

from the 'most improved team: Lotus' AS plus article:
http://plus.autospor...d-team-in-2012/


didn't they have different updates for that weekend? ISTR Kimi had floor updates, and Romain wing updates, or something like that.


both had the floor updates but first it was only Kimi who used it because they made comparison against old floor. New front wing was indeed only on Grosjean's car, don't know why.

#139 tarmac

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 15:36

He is used to racing with worse equipment since karting. He wouldnt complain about anything

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#140 korzeniow

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 17:38

from the 'most improved team: Lotus' AS plus article:
http://plus.autospor...d-team-in-2012/

didn't they have different updates for that weekend? ISTR Kimi had floor updates, and Romain wing updates, or something like that.


Where are those insiders when you actually need them?

#141 Zava

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 06:46

both had the floor updates but first it was only Kimi who used it because they made comparison against old floor. New front wing was indeed only on Grosjean's car, don't know why.

ah, so in friday Kimi had floor, Grosjean had wing updates; then from sat. Grosjean got the floor as well? thanks, I didn't remember the second part.
not that I'm gonna cry over a front wing, I'm no Webber fan. :smoking:

something else:
Scarbs thinks lotus (and mclaren, but that's irrelevant to this topic) are gonna introduce something like an improvement of the red bull tunnels, the difference is that the opening will be at the front of the sidepod, facing forward, and not at the back, facing slightly to the side.

from his twitter:
Today my notepad's been filled with ideas of what mac & lotus new sidepods may look like. I'm thinking of a forward facing tunnel set up
Imagine Macs U pods being inverted, with the channel now between the floor and the tub.
Or Renaults FEE pods, with the exhaust duct, now a tunnel feeding airflow back to the diffuser.
Both solutions create a tunnel, to prevent a crossflow with the exhaust ramp. But not lose airflow energy as with RBR side facing tunnel
Both teams have experience with that sort of sidepod packaging and haven't updated their pod/exhausts yet this year
-I think he is wrong on this though, I think mclaren had a sidepod update somewhere
Its just speculation, I've no info this is going to be their new package. Its a solution to point the flows in rightplace without a X-over


#142 korzeniow

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 07:06

Scarbs thinks lotus (and mclaren, but that's irrelevant to this topic) are gonna introduce something like an improvement of the red bull tunnels, the difference is that the opening will be at the front of the sidepod, facing forward, and not at the back, facing slightly to the side.

from his twitter:
Today my notepad's been filled with ideas of what mac & lotus new sidepods may look like. I'm thinking of a forward facing tunnel set up
Imagine Macs U pods being inverted, with the channel now between the floor and the tub.
Or Renaults FEE pods, with the exhaust duct, now a tunnel feeding airflow back to the diffuser.
Both solutions create a tunnel, to prevent a crossflow with the exhaust ramp. But not lose airflow energy as with RBR side facing tunnel
Both teams have experience with that sort of sidepod packaging and haven't updated their pod/exhausts yet this year
-I think he is wrong on this though, I think mclaren had a sidepod update somewhere
Its just speculation, I've no info this is going to be their new package. Its a solution to point the flows in rightplace without a X-over


It' doesn't look anythink like U but I think he meant this:

Posted Image

This would mean that Lotus will finally strat blowing their diffusor.

Edited by korzeniow, 18 July 2012 - 07:07.


#143 Zava

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 07:15

It' doesn't look anythink like U but I think he meant this:

Posted Image

This would mean that Lotus will finally strat blowing their diffusor.

something like that, yes, but now the shape wouldn't be like:

OO xx|
OO xx|
OOOO|
OOOO|

but

OOOO|
OOOO|
OO xx|
OO xx|

where O is the sidepod, x is the 'hole', | is the side where the car continues.

#144 F.M.

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 07:20

ah, so in friday Kimi had floor, Grosjean had wing updates; then from sat. Grosjean got the floor as well? thanks, I didn't remember the second part.
not that I'm gonna cry over a front wing, I'm no Webber fan. :smoking:

something else:
Scarbs thinks lotus (and mclaren, but that's irrelevant to this topic) are gonna introduce something like an improvement of the red bull tunnels, the difference is that the opening will be at the front of the sidepod, facing forward, and not at the back, facing slightly to the side.

from his twitter:
Today my notepad's been filled with ideas of what mac & lotus new sidepods may look like. I'm thinking of a forward facing tunnel set up
Imagine Macs U pods being inverted, with the channel now between the floor and the tub.
Or Renaults FEE pods, with the exhaust duct, now a tunnel feeding airflow back to the diffuser.
Both solutions create a tunnel, to prevent a crossflow with the exhaust ramp. But not lose airflow energy as with RBR side facing tunnel
Both teams have experience with that sort of sidepod packaging and haven't updated their pod/exhausts yet this year
-I think he is wrong on this though, I think mclaren had a sidepod update somewhere
Its just speculation, I've no info this is going to be their new package. Its a solution to point the flows in rightplace without a X-over

Thus basically a double floor like Toro Rosso has

#145 korzeniow

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 07:29

Thus basically a double floor like Toro Rosso has


Not really. It's supposed to be a tunnel in order not to disturb exhaust gasses flow that seals the difusor. The tunnel should then blow the starter hole.

#146 Jovanotti

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 10:48

Getting (maybe too) excited everytime I hear positive news from Lotus. Surely there must be a lot of potential in the E20, it's about time to touch the exhaust/diffuser and try some more aggressive updates if they want to stay with the big boys. Can't wait for the weekend!

Edited by Jovanotti, 18 July 2012 - 10:49.


#147 Zava

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 11:16

Posted Image

is it just me or there really is a duct under the R of CLEAR, not fully seen because of the suspension?
or just a reflection?

also, what is the circular hole on the bottom of the car?

Edited by Zava, 19 July 2012 - 11:18.


#148 F.M.

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 11:43

Posted Image

is it just me or there really is a duct under the R of CLEAR, not fully seen because of the suspension?
or just a reflection?

also, what is the circular hole on the bottom of the car?

Is it just me, or is the most visible change the two extra inlets on the roll hoop, like they had for the F-duct?

Edited by F.M., 19 July 2012 - 11:44.


#149 korzeniow

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 11:46

Is it just me, or is the most visible change the two extra inlets on the roll hoop, like they had for the F-duct?


Maby they tunnel the air directly into the motor starter hole?

#150 eREr

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 11:47

Yeah, it looks unusual.

This is the Silverstone spec air intake: http://photos.gpupda...arge/203793.jpg

Edited by eREr, 19 July 2012 - 11:48.