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Lotus E20 - 2012 - Part II


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#2001 korzeniow

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 07:42

Speed trap figures: http://www.formula1....speed_trap.html

This new DRS must be quite good. Not much top speed disadvantage with wing for high DF tracks

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#2002 ICEBALL

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 07:48

Speed trap figures: http://www.formula1....speed_trap.html

This new DRS must be quite good. Not much top speed disadvantage with wing for high DF tracks


the table is from fp2 where they didn't use the ''device''.....you should see the difference in fp1.....it's quite big 5 km/h

#2003 korzeniow

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 08:15

FP2 Lap Times: http://184.106.145.7.....Lap Times.pdf

Long stints look quite good.

#2004 boldhakka

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 08:15

This is part of the game. Let's hope reliability is not an issue during the race. FP3 will be critical. Any word on whether they're gonna stick to "The Device" for the rest of this weekend?

#2005 Yoshi

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 08:18

@OskariSaari
Kimi: Lotus wont use DDRS in Suzuka. "We would use it if we thought it would make the car faster."

WTF

#2006 Vesuvius

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 08:19

nope the device will not be used anymore

from twitter of Okari Saari:

Kimi: Lotus wont use DDRS in Suzuka.
"We would use it if we thought it would
make the car faster."

#2007 OSX

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 08:20

@OskariSaari
Kimi: Lotus wont use DDRS in Suzuka. "We would use it if we thought it would make the car faster."

Now there's a surprise...


#2008 Vesuvius

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 08:23

it was clear from the first test that DDRS or device as it actually is wasn't working like it should, either it would have been already in the car at spa and monza...the system is really crap and there is no point to use the device ever again as it brings nothing to the car, waste of money and time from other updates.

#2009 Trust

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 08:30

So one more race without any useful update( I don't count front wing alternations). Once again we are in damage limitation mode and our last hope is Korea package. If we aren't fastest with it it's all over to win the title. Lets hope that we can take some points out of Alonso in this race.

#2010 2ms

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 08:32

Here we go again: Lotus with their competitive driver trying to do all his setup in the final practice right before qualifying. And KERS issues, of course.

#2011 Torsion

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 08:44

FP2 Lap Times: http://184.106.145.7.....Lap Times.pdf

Long stints look quite good.


They look good for Romain, but Kimi has been running a different car setup in FP1, and barely had any running in FP2, so it would be surprising if he was able to do any setup on the car in race configuration.

Lets just hope that the team/Kimi can nail a good race setup in FP3, and take it from there. We should still be able to reduce the gap to Fernando if we get the job done tomorrow.

#2012 boldhakka

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 08:50

In hindsight "The Device" turned out to be a very inefficient use of limited resources. How much of these troubles could have been anticipated is up for debate, but it's telling that the only two teams to try the DDRS approach are 4th and below in the constructors. It is relatively inexpensive to build though, in terms of parts and manufacturing, it's got to be said.

I'm not optimistic about the Korea package, unfortunately. But fingers crossed.

#2013 tarmac

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 08:52

Absolute trainwreck to test if for more than two months.. just wow.

#2014 DrF

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 09:12

Why continue to waste precious development resources and even more crucial FP time on a gizmo that's patently not going to work instead of developing the whole car and looking for a good setup with parts you have data for?

I'm all for innovation but Lotus are wasting their time focussing on one part instead of developing the whole car and bringing tested parts to races.

They have a very fast car. No need for Secret Weapons. DDRS hasn't helped Merc and will be banned even if Lotus have a different flavour, the concept will be banned and all that effort will have been for nothing.

#2015 korzeniow

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 09:34

Lotus Friday quotes: http://www.autosport...t.php/id/103097

Overall good moods in the team


#2016 Vesuvius

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 09:36

according to TS, Grosjeans long run was good but was done in lighter fuel load than McLarens and Red Bulls, those two are clearly ahead of everyone else.

#2017 Vesuvius

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 09:42

Lotus Friday quotes: http://www.autosport...t.php/id/103097

Overall good moods in the team


yes they sound ok but not very optimistic, they sound like victory is out of the reach and podium unlikely as well but achieveable if they improve setups tomorrow. Also will wait for Kimi's finnish comments as he always more optimistic in english press releases than he is in his finnish interviews where he says how things really are.

#2018 wrcva

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 09:48

"It worked a little bit but we are not going to run it," said Raikkonen.

"Plus we had some other issues during the running so it didn't help again to get the best idea. But it is not going to suddenly make us win if it worked 100 per cent."

Raikkonen admitted the device was also making the car harder to set up.

"It seems to be," he added. "I think you have to ask the team, but it started well the first time we tried it, and with all the things that were going on it hasn't been as easy as we had hoped, but we are learning with it."-- link



#2019 Vesuvius

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 09:52

according to Kimi, he had lots of other problems as well besides kers, there were problems with electronics etc. but he says it's ok to see Grosjran 6th and closer to top than for a while so hopefully tomorrow will be trouble free day.

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#2020 grunge

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 09:52

Disappointed again..
-Kers issues for KR again.

-No DDRS,yet again.makes you wonder the purpose of investing such time and resources into this when they cant even use it with 6 races to go..Maybe they plan to evaluate it further now during the pre season testing at the end of the year.but rest assured,other big teams will have their own versions of the device if there is anything to gain from it.

And No,i cant see why Lotus's system would be banned next year as it is passive.it has nothing to do with the Mercedes DDRS.but rest assured,other big teams will have their own versions of the device if there is anything to gain from it.


#2021 grunge

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 09:55

Well According to Kimi,the situation is atleast better than than Singapore.

Kimi Raikkonen - 14th: "We didn't get much running because of the issue with the KERS, but at least it happened today and we got it fixed. It wasn't ideal for helping us find the best setup but there's nothing you can do about these things. Suzuka is not the easiest place to get the car set up, but we still have tomorrow's practice before qualifying. I think we have the potential to be nearer the front than we have done in the last couple of races."


#2022 korzeniow

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 10:00

Disappointed again..
-Kers issues for KR again.

-No DDRS,yet again.makes you wonder the purpose of investing such time and resources into this when they cant even use it with 6 races to go..Maybe they plan to evaluate it further now during the pre season testing at the end of the year.but rest assured,other big teams will have their own versions of the device if there is anything to gain from it.

And No,i cant see why Lotus's system would be banned next year as it is passive.it has nothing to do with the Mercedes DDRS.but rest assured,other big teams will have their own versions of the device if there is anything to gain from it.


Team evaluated the gain to be around half a secound at Spa. I think it's wort to pursue such kind of performance gains.

They have to win a race this season so I will be happy even if it will be working on the one track only.

As for other teams introducing their copies of the solution, it is normal in F1 and it will be matter of effectiveness. At least we have head start

Edited by korzeniow, 05 October 2012 - 10:01.


#2023 boldhakka

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 10:08

Pretty sure RB and McLaren are running significantly higher fuel loads these days in their long runs. We're still 4th best. Retirements, Massa, and other factors will get us into top 6 maybe. There will probably be brief stints during the race when Lotus will appear fastest, but later it will emerge that the leaders were cruising and controlling the race.

Edited by boldhakka, 05 October 2012 - 10:12.


#2024 2ms

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 10:08

Team evaluated the gain to be around half a secound at Spa. I think it's wort to pursue such kind of performance gains.

They have to win a race this season so I will be happy even if it will be working on the one track only.

As for other teams introducing their copies of the solution, it is normal in F1 and it will be matter of effectiveness. At least we have head start


They have to win a race? Their target is 4th in WCC. That doesn't require winning a race. It may require having a weekend that isn't a nightmare of problems for once, however.


#2025 korzeniow

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 10:10

Pretty sure RB and McLaren are running significantly higher fuel loads these days in their long runs. We're still 4th best. Retirements, Massa, and other factors will get us into top 6 maybe. There will probably be brief stints during the race when Lotus will appear fastest, but later it will emerge that the leaders were cruising and controlling the race. This has been the case for the last 3-4 races.


It looks like you went too far with your negativity. In Hungary E20 was the best car :wave:

#2026 Torsion

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 10:15

Pretty sure RB and McLaren are running significantly higher fuel loads these days in their long runs. We're still 4th best. Retirements, Massa, and other factors will get us into top 6 maybe. There will probably be brief stints during the race when Lotus will appear fastest, but later it will emerge that the leaders were cruising and controlling the race.


I think tires and tire strategy might have some impact on this race.



#2027 boldhakka

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 10:18

It looks like you went too far with your negativity. In Hungary E20 was the best car :wave:


Yep, that's why I edited my post to remove the last line even before I saw your post!

#2028 Vesuvius

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 10:33

Team evaluated the gain to be around half a secound at Spa. I think it's wort to pursue such kind of performance gains.

They have to win a race this season so I will be happy even if it will be working on the one track only.

As for other teams introducing their copies of the solution, it is normal in F1 and it will be matter of effectiveness. At least we have head start


Boullier said the advantage is only 0,2-0,3 seconds...but indeed still a worth to try to get it working as they have invested so much on it that they would look really stupidif it will not be used at least on one car in race/races this season.

I don't think any other team will try similar system this season...McLaren did develop one but they haven't tested it at all yet so don't think it will be raced at all.

#2029 wrcva

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 10:34

The only positive situation since Hungary is Gro's statement that if there is a need he'll let Kimi go... otherwise the car is/has been stagnant. Who knows maybe the F-duct was the highest payback project to spend time on as opposed stabilizing the KERS, fixing the steering, ... but we'll never know I guess. Strategy for the 2nd half of the season turning out to be "prayer strategy" for the misfortunes of front runners.

KERS is a core infrastructure item - it is NOT an optional gadget to get to when you have time from other vaporware projects.

#2030 Wander

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 11:23

Have there ever been first corner pile-ups at Suzuka?

#2031 Baddoer

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 11:42

FP2 Lap Times: http://184.106.145.7.....Lap Times.pdf

Long stints look quite good.

Yep, pretty much on the same pace as Vettel. Kobayashi looked very good too.

#2032 Youichi

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 13:30

Have there ever been first corner pile-ups at Suzuka?


Yes, 2010 Petrov hit a slow Hulkenberg off the line, and Massa wiped out several people at Turn 1.

http://www.dailymoti...-official_sport

Not to mention 1990......

Edited by Youichi, 05 October 2012 - 13:31.


#2033 Ze Bum

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 15:36

Why don't they just run the device in Romain's car all the time to get it to work? It doesn't seem to make the car much slower anyway.


#2034 Seanspeed

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 16:04

If Grosjean's long run pace is real, then damn. Top 4 start or so may put him right up there in the fight. I think the car is going well here. Kimi's still got time to get things ready for quali and the race, too.

I'm actually a bit concerned one or both of your guys will be in the way of Ferrari here. ):

#2035 korzeniow

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 16:28

I sure hope so :p

Good performances from both drivers and we could jump Ferrari in WCC

#2036 korzeniow

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 17:02

formula1.com reports there are new front wing, new floor and new rear wing this weekend: http://www.formula1....2/10/13875.html

#2037 Skinnyguy

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 17:04

I'm actually a bit concerned one or both of your guys will be in the way of Ferrari here. ):


But I'm confused sir, weren't you a Räikkönen supporter? You said so lots of times alongside your rants against him.

Just kidding, not confused at all, it did never stick, not for a second. Good to see you don't play that card anymore, it was lame and embarrasing.

#2038 Skinnyguy

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 17:06

formula1.com reports there are new front wing, new floor and new rear wing this weekend: http://www.formula1....2/10/13875.html


Great to see them still pushing, regardles of the success or not of the updates.

#2039 Seanspeed

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 18:13

But I'm confused sir, weren't you a Räikkönen supporter? You said so lots of times alongside your rants against him.

Just kidding, not confused at all, it did never stick, not for a second. Good to see you don't play that card anymore, it was lame and embarrasing.

I've always been a Ferrari fan, first and foremost. You must be one of the few regular posters here who hasn't learned that yet.

Edited by Seanspeed, 05 October 2012 - 18:22.


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#2040 FenderJaguar

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 18:33

Like to add that I think the characteristics of the E20 should be pretty good for this track and Kimi is usually very good in these kind of long sweeping corner tracks so I had high hopes for this weekend. So depressing they lost a lot of time in practice 2 but Romain seems pretty close so there is still a chance of a really good result.

#2041 sniper80

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 18:49

Why does Lotus & Renault have so many KERS problems? :confused:

#2042 Seanspeed

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 18:50

Why does Lotus & Renault have so many KERS problems? :confused:

Pushing the limits probably.

Edited by Seanspeed, 05 October 2012 - 18:53.


#2043 BetaVersion

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 19:05

Lotus is looking really strong this weekend.

I think they will fight to be 3rd best car in qualifying after Mclaren and Red Bull.

#2044 SpaMaster

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 19:09

Why does Lotus & Renault have so many KERS problems? :confused:

Red Bull and Lotus have different KERS. The problems are not related.

Some people are moaning too much about the KERS failure, and how this has happened so many times. Fact is Lotus has been one of the most reliable cars this season. They had one mechanical DNF with Grosjean, that's it. True, they have had minor glitches here and there. It is still better than race-ending DNFs. These things are normal in practice sessions. If you don't find the limit in practice sessions, when will you? The team deserves more understanding and appreciation. Some talk like they know all about DDRS, kers, set-ups, etc. If there isn't anything to be gained, they wouldn't be doing it. They know what they are doing. Some comments seems like they are utter morons and they should better listen to the fans here.

#2045 korzeniow

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 20:11

Red Bull and Lotus have different KERS. The problems are not related.

Some people are moaning too much about the KERS failure, and how this has happened so many times. Fact is Lotus has been one of the most reliable cars this season. They had one mechanical DNF with Grosjean, that's it. True, they have had minor glitches here and there. It is still better than race-ending DNFs. These things are normal in practice sessions. If you don't find the limit in practice sessions, when will you? The team deserves more understanding and appreciation. Some talk like they know all about DDRS, kers, set-ups, etc. If there isn't anything to be gained, they wouldn't be doing it. They know what they are doing. Some comments seems like they are utter morons and they should better listen to the fans here.


I dodn't expect that coming from you. Really good stuff :up: :up: :up: I agree in 100 %

#2046 One

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 20:40

Why does Lotus & Renault have so many KERS problems? :confused:

I think you are very politie. Lotus failed to run two perfectly manager car thoughts 2012 season. Eventualiteit It happende only on one car. I believe that the team is doing the best but the rate of failure is too highe to challenge the WDC or WCC. Actually it is almost ...
Suit happens and you go forward, but it is too bad. Truly it is very disappointing. BS actually. Way below F1 level

#2047 grunge

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 22:11

Team evaluated the gain to be around half a secound at Spa. I think it's wort to pursue such kind of performance gains.

They have to win a race this season so I will be happy even if it will be working on the one track only.

As for other teams introducing their copies of the solution, it is normal in F1 and it will be matter of effectiveness. At least we have head start


i agree..the reason Lotus keep bringing it and trying it on Friday is cause they think the gain would be worth the hassle...that why i was so disappointed when Permane said they wont be using it at Suzuka either..prolly means not this year at all with 5 races to go.

Me thinks,they underestimated the time required to fine tune the device..with only three practice sessions each weekend..makes u wonder

1.why didnt they use DAmbrosio to do the testing of the device when RG was banned..2.maybe RG shouldve been the one running the device and not KR so that they dont jeopardize their quali and race preparation..

In any event we dont know whether the device will be banned next year or not..its certainly not helped at all this year(or even pulled them back as they kept running those front intakes closed on KR's car which would've logically caused atleast some drag)...Makes u wonder if they should've invested the same time and resources on something else..like the coanda diffuser.



#2048 grunge

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 22:20

Here are some pictures from Raikkonen's E20 in FP1

Posted Image
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#2049 grunge

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 22:30

Front wing cascades.

Singapore
Posted Image
Suzuka
Posted Image

#2050 Skinnyguy

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 23:15

I've always been a Ferrari fan, first and foremost. You must be one of the few regular posters here who hasn't learned that yet.


You don't seem to grasp it mate: I knew perfectly well who you support. Ferrari for wcc and Alonso for wdc. No need to be a genious to notice.

This is about who you claimed to support lots of times despite blatantly disliking. That's what "didn't stick for a second".