Jump to content


Photo
* * * * - 9 votes

Lotus E20 - 2012 - Part II


  • Please log in to reply
3555 replies to this topic

#2151 grunge

grunge
  • Member

  • 4,411 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 07 October 2012 - 20:53

Disappointing weekend to say the least..Grosjean is such a sight to watch when he gets away at the race start..his speed is 2nd to none and is an excellent overtaker on the track,but he seems to spatial orientation problems at race starts again and again..today was just plain clumsy..i dont even know what he was thinking there,he says he was looking out for Perez on the side but you've got to be aware of cars from all 4 directions around you..he bumped into Webber just like he didnt know he existed in front of him.

Raikkonen did what we could..our pitstops were a sec slower than Mclaren on average..I cant blame Lotus for that cuz Mclaren was the only team in the < 3sec bracket...the 2nd stop was particularly slow though..thats how Hamilton got ahead when KR rejoined.

Updeat for Korea..big update coming but then there are rumored big updates for Ferrari and RB too..the latter being bigger teams usually are better at in season updates than Lotus.Fingers crosse

Advertisement

#2152 grunge

grunge
  • Member

  • 4,411 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 07 October 2012 - 21:07

It's disappointing the deivce isn't working. If Red Bull indeed runs the DDRS and it contributes to their latest step in form, does it show we just missed the boat? In theory, the passive Lotus system has the advantage of also aiding race pace but just how big can this advantage be? Can the device be adjusted for qualifying and the race separately, where the lap-times not only fluctuate but are also a few seconds slower than in qualifying even at the end when on low fuel? If not, it surely has to be configured so that the stalling effect arrives at the maximum exit speed onto a straight in qualifying. However, in the race that speed will only be achieved on the actual straight and the stalling period will last proportionally shorter to the difference in lap-times between Saturday and Sunday which as I said is a significant difference. Taking into account that the device is said to be stalling the rear wing and Red Bull's DDRS the beam wing, isn't it mainly a quali tool also but with its inherent problems of a passive system?

The Lotus Device is speculated to stall all three storeeys at the back..the rear wing,the diffuser and and the beam wing..a kind of a 3 in 1 combo.how it helps in the race situation is probably by blocking the air intake hole directed to the beam and rear wings and redirecting the air flow to the Diffuser which would increase the downforce produced by the latter and thus aid in overall grip levels

The point u raised is valid and only Lotus personnel can answer that..in addition to that the main factors i think,that can possibly hinder the DDRS seem to be

1.the configuration of the device..we know the device activates and inactivates based on air volume/pressure fed into the intake hole..when the value raises above the set standard,the hole opens up,stalls the 3 components and there is a gain of straight line speed(any where around 6 km/hr to 10 km/hr acc to speculation)..now the air pressure will vary as the air intake changes..eg topometric changes based on track elevation and depressions,the atmospheric pressure value,the humidity value and then most importantly the situation of following a car in front which would drastically alter the values..how can u achieve a baseline value when u have that many variable on race day.

2.the scenario of driving through corners that are usually taken flat out these days eg 130R..the air pressure would be equal/greater than the ones achieved on straights and the device would activate..imagine the drivers going thru 130R and the device activates and deprives him of his rear downforce..it could be calamity.

#2153 Alexandros

Alexandros
  • Member

  • 1,159 posts
  • Joined: February 03

Posted 07 October 2012 - 21:37

Raikkonen did what we could..our pitstops were a sec slower than Mclaren on average..I cant blame Lotus for that cuz Mclaren was the only team in the < 3sec bracket...the 2nd stop was particularly slow though..thats how Hamilton got ahead when KR rejoined.


Hamilton would probably overtake Kimi after all... and Kimi would have to take evasive action, slowing him down for several laps. With Hamilton ahead by a few secs, Kimi had clean air and could concentrate on lapping OK... Given that Force India finished just a sec behind Kimi, it might have been a fortunate event that Hamilton passed right through after the pitstop, otherwise Kimi might have been overtaken not only by Hamilton but by the 2 cars behind him as well.

#2154 Kraze

Kraze
  • Member

  • 63 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 08 October 2012 - 05:29

Lotus form has dipped so low that I doubt if Kimi can hang on to the 3rd position in the driver standings at the end of the season if their much hyped upgrades fails to work in Korea.

#2155 Oho

Oho
  • Member

  • 7,652 posts
  • Joined: November 98

Posted 08 October 2012 - 05:35

Lotus form has dipped so low that I doubt if Kimi can hang on to the 3rd position in the driver standings at the end of the season if their much hyped upgrades fails to work in Korea.


Cant really say, they had so little to go by when setting up Räikkönen's car. The car was pretty fast for couple laps but quickly lost performance once the tires started to wear, it was what one could expect with no practice dedicated for tire management which it seems is done primarily during FP2 on Friday.

#2156 Kraze

Kraze
  • Member

  • 63 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 08 October 2012 - 05:44

Cant really say, they had so little to go by when setting up Räikkönen's car. The car was pretty fast for couple laps but quickly lost performance once the tires started to wear, it was what one could expect with no practice dedicated for tire management which it seems is done primarily during FP2 on Friday.


Lotus much hyped DDRS did not work and curtailed kimi's preparations on Friday, if the same thing happens again this time in korea then Hamilton is definitely going to take 3rd place from him.

#2157 eronrules

eronrules
  • Member

  • 3,225 posts
  • Joined: January 12

Posted 08 October 2012 - 11:04

any indication weather or not they'll use 'Coanda exhaust' in korea?? or any idea on the list of possible upgrades they'll bring e.g floors/FW/sidepods etc???

#2158 Vesuvius

Vesuvius
  • Member

  • 6,026 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 08 October 2012 - 11:10

they will according to TS, have new diffusor and floor + other updates and possibly they will also test DDRS...no mention about coanda exhaust but it could still be on updated package.

#2159 Yoshi

Yoshi
  • Member

  • 949 posts
  • Joined: February 06

Posted 08 October 2012 - 11:13

Team principal Eric Boullier told AUTOSPORT: "I don't think in Korea the layout is bringing any gains with it, so we will concentrate on some other updates there."

I don't think they will test the DDRS again in Korea, but maybe they will test it with Romain instead of Kimi.

Edited by Yoshi, 08 October 2012 - 11:16.


Advertisement

#2160 eronrules

eronrules
  • Member

  • 3,225 posts
  • Joined: January 12

Posted 08 October 2012 - 11:20

I don't think they will test the DDRS again in Korea, but maybe with Romain instead of Kimi.


they should've tested the device (DDRS) with d'ambrossio in monza, the whole race was there for the tesing. they missed that opportunity.

but funny boulier said that, cause korea and subsequent races have long straights where they could've benefited from DDRS. or he was saying it about 'Coanda'???

also they really needs to sort out there KERS. does anybody know weather their KERS is same as the REd Bulls KERS i.e less powerfull (60%) than Ferrari/merc KERS???

#2161 Trust

Trust
  • Member

  • 3,195 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 08 October 2012 - 11:30

they should've tested the device (DDRS) with d'ambrossio in monza, the whole race was there for the tesing. they missed that opportunity.

but funny boulier said that, cause korea and subsequent races have long straights where they could've benefited from DDRS. or he was saying it about 'Coanda'???

also they really needs to sort out there KERS. does anybody know weather their KERS is same as the REd Bulls KERS i.e less powerfull (60%) than Ferrari/merc KERS???

Can't believe this is dragging so long. It's the same strength 100 percent! Stop with this nonsence.

#2162 swiniodzik

swiniodzik
  • Member

  • 606 posts
  • Joined: November 08

Posted 08 October 2012 - 14:13

The Lotus Device is speculated to stall all three storeeys at the back..the rear wing,the diffuser and and the beam wing..a kind of a 3 in 1 combo.how it helps in the race situation is probably by blocking the air intake hole directed to the beam and rear wings and redirecting the air flow to the Diffuser which would increase the downforce produced by the latter and thus aid in overall grip levels

The point u raised is valid and only Lotus personnel can answer that..in addition to that the main factors i think,that can possibly hinder the DDRS seem to be

1.the configuration of the device..we know the device activates and inactivates based on air volume/pressure fed into the intake hole..when the value raises above the set standard,the hole opens up,stalls the 3 components and there is a gain of straight line speed(any where around 6 km/hr to 10 km/hr acc to speculation)..now the air pressure will vary as the air intake changes..eg topometric changes based on track elevation and depressions,the atmospheric pressure value,the humidity value and then most importantly the situation of following a car in front which would drastically alter the values..how can u achieve a baseline value when u have that many variable on race day.

2.the scenario of driving through corners that are usually taken flat out these days eg 130R..the air pressure would be equal/greater than the ones achieved on straights and the device would activate..imagine the drivers going thru 130R and the device activates and deprives him of his rear downforce..it could be calamity.


Hmm, but wouldn't any hole opening and closing mechanism in such a three-in-one system, even working on its own according to air pressure, be considered as moveable aero and illegal? I was under the assumption the device is always 'open' and switches on and off as a specific duct geometry determines how and when the air inducted from the intakes is vented out - at low speed it exits mainly through the big outlet above the beam wing, at high speed it's encouraged through the small outlets placed under the rear wing and causing it to stall. Still, it has to be very tricky to get that geometry right so that the thing doesn't sabotage performance by switching on and off in unwanted places.

I was only thinking out loudly with the questions in my earlier post and not expecting strict answers, just wondering if Lotus perhaps out-smarted themselves. Obviously they've thought the assistance of race pace, even if less powerful than that of quali pace, was worth the effort of mastering a passive system which stalls the more draggy rear wing. Red Bull seems to have settled for the active, qual-only system and stalling the less draggy beam wing and it seems to be working, whereas the theoretically more powerful Lotus device doesn't. I hope it works eventually even this late into the season as it's kinda starting to look like another blind development alley for the team, only this time in the championship fight.

#2163 KimiSolberg

KimiSolberg
  • Member

  • 70 posts
  • Joined: February 12

Posted 08 October 2012 - 14:13

Romain Grosjean: Victory not likely for Lotus in 2012

"We have been consistently at the front, If by the front you mean me crashing out at the start."


:p


Boo-yaa! I´m sad that I was right. Lotus deservers a lot more constructors points this season. And I have actually been rooting for Grosjean up until his "last nail in the coffin" performance in Suzuka.

Ps. The quote is a parody of a news story than ran on Autosport the same day.

#2164 SpaMaster

SpaMaster
  • Member

  • 5,856 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 08 October 2012 - 14:58

Lotus much hyped DDRS did not work and curtailed kimi's preparations on Friday, ..

No, DDRS did not curtail Kimi's preparations. KERS and anti-roll bar did.

#2165 Torsion

Torsion
  • Member

  • 627 posts
  • Joined: February 12

Posted 08 October 2012 - 16:07

No, DDRS did not curtail Kimi's preparations. KERS and anti-roll bar did.


Surely it had some effect? the fact that the race spec car was different to the car run by Raikkonen in FP1 would mean that no sensible setup work came out of that session? Missing FP2 and FP3 certainly made things worse, and clearly the team couldn't anticipate this.

In hindsight it might have been better to try the DRD with Romain, and have Kimi do race setup from the start.

Edited by Torsion, 08 October 2012 - 16:08.


#2166 SpaMaster

SpaMaster
  • Member

  • 5,856 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 08 October 2012 - 16:47

^ He tested DDRS the whole Friday in Hungary and his race pace was awesome on Sunday!? If people think all updates would stop drivers from setting up the car for the weekend, there won't be much testing of updates at all during practice sessions! Updates and set-up work are not mutually exclusive. You can test mutitude of parameters simultaneously. That happens in setting up various parameters together and in setting up few old parameter and few new parameters in the name of updates. This sort of multi-tasking happens all the time in F1.

#2167 eronrules

eronrules
  • Member

  • 3,225 posts
  • Joined: January 12

Posted 08 October 2012 - 17:00

^ He tested DDRS the whole Friday in Hungary and his race pace was awesome on Sunday!? If people think all updates would stop drivers from setting up the car for the weekend, there won't be much testing of updates at all during practice sessions! Updates and set-up work are not mutually exclusive. You can test mutitude of parameters simultaneously. That happens in setting up various parameters together and in setting up few old parameter and few new parameters in the name of updates. This sort of multi-tasking happens all the time in F1.



we're not accusing, but some of us thinks that when your driver is chasing WDC, you should let non WDC chasing driver to do testing jobs. kimi himself said he couldn't set up car properly with DDRS in FP's, so they had to change it back to old spec, meaning his rhythm was already in jeopardy for the whole weekend. but kimi being kimi didn't give a shit and drove wheels off that car to pick up 6th. but maybe if he had more practice of high fuel, he could've kept hamilton behind him.

#2168 eronrules

eronrules
  • Member

  • 3,225 posts
  • Joined: January 12

Posted 08 October 2012 - 17:12

Back to the drawing board - Lotus f1


Perhaps the biggest news of the weekend as far as the E20 is concerned was the trial – and ultimate failure – of the ‘Device’.While potentially a highly beneficial upgrade, this particular development has proved to be less than simple to implement during a race weekend.


so they admit they cocked up ... :well:

With the Young Driver Test in Abu Dhabi coming up, the team will be hoping that an extended opportunity to fine-tune this concept will prove the key in reaping its rewards in the final two rounds of the season.


so there is still hope for the 'DEVICE it seems :up:

On a more positive note, a number of upgrades which failed to live up to expectations in Singapore – notably an amended front wing configuration – were far more effective this time around at Suzuka; a positive sign heading into the upcoming races with the development race far from over [Watch out for James Allison’s Korean Grand Prix Preview Q&A to find out more…]

Finally, each of the three Free Practice sessions were seemingly dominated by requests for regular setup changes from both drivers. A particularly frustrating start on Friday gradually mellowed to the stage where – by the time qualifying arrived – Kimi and Romain were significantly more comfortable in the E20; a testament to the hard work of the team.


let's see what allison says ... :smoking:

Korea is our next port of call and a new challenge for both drivers; neither of whom have driven the Korea International Circuit in their careers to date. With a significant upgrade package scheduled for the E20 and a fresh opportunity to kick start our season, let’s hope a little bit of beginners’ luck may shine on the team in Yeongam… _ _


about time i'd say ):

#2169 SpaMaster

SpaMaster
  • Member

  • 5,856 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 08 October 2012 - 17:12

^ I don't think Kimi said that. He said he could set up the car properly because of KERS issues. In a separate line, he said they did not use DDRS for the afternoon session. If Grosjean tests the updates and it works, and the team decides to bolt on the car for the race, then people would say 'Oh, they let the other guy test the new parts and Kimi had to use it without getting used to it'. I don't think anyone needs to watch over for Kimi. He is a grown man, and can suggest sensible options himself. Lost track time is what Kimi cost set-up runs, not DDRS. If something has a reasonable risk, it is first up to Kimi to say no.

#2170 Zava

Zava
  • Member

  • 5,040 posts
  • Joined: September 10

Posted 08 October 2012 - 17:16

even I was already saying back at about hungary that they should go and do the YDT with ferrari and mercedes in the first half of septembre, good morning lotus!

#2171 SpaMaster

SpaMaster
  • Member

  • 5,856 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 08 October 2012 - 17:22

so they admit they cocked up ... :well:

Failure for the weekend. Not forever.

Lot of people wrote it off that the upgrades they brought to Singapore did not work. But, on further testing, they did seem to be working well.

Some would say it is important to enjoy the process rather than getting all lost over what the result would be.

#2172 swerved

swerved
  • Member

  • 3,677 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 08 October 2012 - 17:33

even I was already saying back at about hungary that they should go and do the YDT with ferrari and mercedes in the first half of septembre, good morning lotus!


Lets hope its a good morning, and that they take a good sniff of the coffee, I've been quite positive about the team up to now, that positivity is starting to wane a little, I'll reserve any further judgement until after Korea.


#2173 eronrules

eronrules
  • Member

  • 3,225 posts
  • Joined: January 12

Posted 08 October 2012 - 17:42

Failure for the weekend. Not forever.

Lot of people wrote it off that the upgrades they brought to Singapore did not work. But, on further testing, they did seem to be working well.

Some would say it is important to enjoy the process rather than getting all lost over what the result would be.



i too meant for the weekend ... well make it all the weekends they tried since german gp :smoking:

but instead of making the big step, there are some other issues too that Lotus needs to fix, most importantly there woefully slow pit stop times. here are the pit times that cost kimi 5th from lewis

kimi raikkonen pit stops ...

lap 13 : 20.901 (faster than Macca one due to Lewis hesitating to leave)
lap 30 : 21.222 (1.428s slower than macca )

lewis Hamsta

lap 16 : 21.148 (there was hesitation form lewis)
lap 31 : 19.794 (fastest pit stop !!!)

i know macca is unbeatable in pit times, but 1.4 seconds is embarrassingly slow.

Edited by eronrules, 08 October 2012 - 17:46.


#2174 SpaMaster

SpaMaster
  • Member

  • 5,856 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 08 October 2012 - 18:05

Again the constant skepticism.. They only tested it from German GP. It was obviously not a fail there because the testing proved to confirm it was beneficial, so they went ahead and decided to race. They only planned to race at Spa, but it was raining. The only real racing weekend test was at Japan. Not the way you make it out to be.

Woefully slow pit stop time"s"? The Japan second pit stop was the only one that was problematic in the recent times. If you want to compare with McLaren, they have messed up more pit-stops than all teams combined this season. I mean big time goof ups. Arguably they are going to lose this championship because of their pit stop gaffes. Lotus were slower earlier in the season. But once they started bring advanced machineries like the big teams, they have been consistently quick. Japan second stop was an exception.

#2175 hello86

hello86
  • Member

  • 3,660 posts
  • Joined: February 06

Posted 08 October 2012 - 18:29

Back to the drawing board - Lotus f1

let's see what allison says ... :smoking:


James Allison: “The potential gain of the Coandă system surpasses that of our current design”
With new developments for the E20 showing positive signs in Suzuka and a raft of further upgrades scheduled for Korea, James Allison explains why the E20 is far from being out of the running with a quarter of the 2012 season remaining…

What do we have new on the car for Korea?
We’ve been ploughing something of a lonely furrow on the circuit with our relatively straightforward, power-maximizing exhaust. However, since well before the launch of the E20 and to the present day we’ve been carrying out parallel developments in our wind tunnel programme based around a Coandă effect exhaust. Once we saw the potential gain of the Coandă system surpass that of our current design it was clear that we needed to implement it, both for the benefit we could get in the last quarter of this season and also for learning experience it presents us for next year. We will run our first version of this style of exhaust in Korea.

Are there a lot of changes involved with the Coandă system?
It is not as big a deal as the 2011 style blown exhausts. Last year (for all teams, but especially for our forward exhausts) it was quite challenging to ensure that the exhausts did not set fire to the car. The Coandă system is a little more indirect, and the jet has cooled a little before it impinges on the floor which makes things a little easier to manage. There’s still a fair amount of rearrangement including new Coke panels, new exhausts, new exhaust exit panels, some fireproofing of the floor and so on. All told, it’s a biggish change rather than an enormous one. It’s also easier to swap to and fro for evaluation.

Where do we stand on the implementation of the Double DRS ‘Device’?
We haven’t had the happiest of introductions with the system. It’s been harder than I anticipated to make it switch effectively with only the limited opportunity afforded in Free Practice. We’re going to take it away, have another think and most likely give it another go in the Abu Dhabi young drivers’ test where we’ll have more time to develop it in a systematic fashion.

The team’s other upgrades gave the impression of working quite well – at least for qualifying – in Suzuka?
It was quite pleasing that we were able to resurrect the upgrades that left Singapore under something of a cloud. It’s annoying when something that the tunnel says will be good does not work straight away, but it is very easy at the track to end up with a false negative – as we did in Singapore. The problem is that the track is a very uncontrolled testing environment. It’s always a relief when you find out at the second attempt that the factory modelling was correct after all.

Is there any reason why we didn’t have the race pace in Suzuka?
We took a little bit of damage in the first lap incident with Kimi and subsequently saw some loss of aerodynamic performance as the race progressed. We had respectable qualifying positions in Suzuka, but if we can succeed with our upgrades it ought to put some fairly clear air between us and the squabbling pack.

Any fears about how the Yeongam circuit should suit the E20?
It’s a bit like Germany. The first part of the circuit is largely straights and sweeping curves and the second half a series of slower speed corners. It averages out as a fairly ordinary type of track with slightly more overtaking opportunities than average. The weather may be a little cooler than we would ideally like it, but we are expecting a good weekend.


source: Lotus

#2176 Yoshi

Yoshi
  • Member

  • 949 posts
  • Joined: February 06

Posted 08 October 2012 - 18:44

Nice to hear that we gonna see a first version if the Coanda exhaust.

#2177 eronrules

eronrules
  • Member

  • 3,225 posts
  • Joined: January 12

Posted 08 October 2012 - 18:56

source: Lotus


:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

but if they had thought of the coanda exhaust before, seeing Sauber, why didn't they put priority on coanda instead of DDRS ??? :confused:

#2178 swiniodzik

swiniodzik
  • Member

  • 606 posts
  • Joined: November 08

Posted 08 October 2012 - 19:38

Easy to say with hindsight, eronrules. The interview is an honest acknowledgment of getting their rear-end-development priorities wrong from today's perspective, no doubt. Under-estimating the difficulties to get the device working and seeing the potential of the Coanda-exhausts in the simulations too late - that's the gist of Allison's words for me. Meh, so we can basically stick a fork in the device for this year as there are only two races left after the Abu Dhabi test. Let's hope for an effective on-track translation of the exhaust potential straight away as it's getting crunch time and we clearly need to shift into a higher gear in the development race.

#2179 grunge

grunge
  • Member

  • 4,411 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 08 October 2012 - 21:30

Im really glad our persistent moaning has reaped results and Lotus are going to test their initial version of the Coanda.

But nobody should get their expectations high..Mclaren,RB have had the exhaust utilizing the coanda effect since the start of the season..their exhaust is pretty different right now to what they started with..they have hundreds of miles of data on the system..Lotus is 'just' introducing this.We also know that Ferrari took a while before they started getting any benefits when they introduced the system..Mercedes ,the same,infact they havent improved in Quali pace at all but the tire degradation seems to have gotten better.

This update is very much with next year in mind...the earlier they get a start,the better itll be for them in 2013.

Advertisement

#2180 grunge

grunge
  • Member

  • 4,411 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 08 October 2012 - 21:31

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

but if they had thought of the coanda exhaust before, seeing Sauber, why didn't they put priority on coanda instead of DDRS ??? :confused:

as i said above,this is very unlikely to have immediate benefits so no need to get hopes high for Korea.

#2181 grunge

grunge
  • Member

  • 4,411 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 08 October 2012 - 21:41

Hmm, but wouldn't any hole opening and closing mechanism in such a three-in-one system, even working on its own according to air pressure, be considered as moveable aero and illegal? I was under the assumption the device is always 'open' and switches on and off as a specific duct geometry determines how and when the air inducted from the intakes is vented out - at low speed it exits mainly through the big outlet above the beam wing, at high speed it's encouraged through the small outlets placed under the rear wing and causing it to stall. Still, it has to be very tricky to get that geometry right so that the thing doesn't sabotage performance by switching on and off in unwanted places.

I was only thinking out loudly with the questions in my earlier post and not expecting strict answers, just wondering if Lotus perhaps out-smarted themselves. Obviously they've thought the assistance of race pace, even if less powerful than that of quali pace, was worth the effort of mastering a passive system which stalls the more draggy rear wing. Red Bull seems to have settled for the active, qual-only system and stalling the less draggy beam wing and it seems to be working, whereas the theoretically more powerful Lotus device doesn't. I hope it works eventually even this late into the season as it's kinda starting to look like another blind development alley for the team, only this time in the championship fight.

Since the hole doesnt open or close by the driver or Pit input ,it is essentially a passive system.

What u described is fundamentally true..Scarbs explanation of the system states that at lower speeds the air intake into the beam and rear wing is closed .the air blows directly into the diffuser increasing the downforce created in the rear which would aid cornering speeds..As the car picks up speed on the straight,the air volume/pressure into the air intake increases and this causes the duct leading to the rear and the beam wings to open up...this results in stalling all three...

This is Scarbs hypothesis ofcourse and no one really knows if its true or not.

I agree its easier to say in hindsight that they shouldve done this or that..When they wouldve started on the idea late last year,it may have looked much more promising than it does now and also the enthusiasm of implementing something that no other team has thought of would have played a part.

I dont see any chances of the device making a debut this season..Lotus have to collect as many points as they can to close up that gap to Ferrari in the WCC standings.Raikkonen's WDC hopes are pretty much over so theyll prolly prefer consistency over taking a risk.


Edited by grunge, 08 October 2012 - 21:44.


#2182 grunge

grunge
  • Member

  • 4,411 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 08 October 2012 - 21:49

Korea Preview

Pirelli
Paul Hembery, Pirelli motorsport director
“We’re bringing the same tyre nominations to Korea as we did last year, which at the time was seen as quite a bold choice because Korea has the highest lateral energy loadings of all the circuits where we use the super-soft tyre. In the end, we saw the super soft lasting for 10 laps or more and the soft lasting for 20 laps or more, enabling a two-stop strategy for the majority of the drivers. This year, however, all our Formula One tyres are softer apart from the super soft, which has remained the same. We should see another two-stop race this year, which in theory should be even faster. This year though, there have been some changes to the aerodynamic regulations, which have generally slowed lap times down over the course of the season. Strategy played a key role in last year’s race but there was also a safety car and some rain at the start of the weekend. So Korea is the sort of circuit where anything can happen, and as always the teams with the most data and the ability to adapt that information to rapidly changing circumstances will be the most successful.”


No rain predicted..Temperatures around 20 degree C

Edited by grunge, 08 October 2012 - 21:51.


#2183 Vesuvius

Vesuvius
  • Member

  • 6,026 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 09 October 2012 - 00:20

so we have new diffusor,floor and exhaust for Korea...big update, good news but like I wrote last weekend, big updates take couple of races to get them working.

super softs and cold weather for Korea is not good news for Kimi, so expecting some quali troubles again (hopefully not).also Kimi haven't even seen photos of the track lol so he will get few laps to get used to the track.

#2184 DrF

DrF
  • Member

  • 1,504 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 09 October 2012 - 05:44

Great. Another weekend of testing new parts - on a track they've no data for - then taking everything off and doing all their setup on Saturday morning.
Can't wait.

#2185 Oho

Oho
  • Member

  • 7,652 posts
  • Joined: November 98

Posted 09 October 2012 - 07:24

Great. Another weekend of testing new parts - on a track they've no data for - then taking everything off and doing all their setup on Saturday morning.
Can't wait.


Indeed if they sacrifice practice time to evaluate development components they should make damn sure the car runs properly during FP2 which, I guess, is focused around race setup.

Edited by Oho, 09 October 2012 - 07:24.


#2186 eronrules

eronrules
  • Member

  • 3,225 posts
  • Joined: January 12

Posted 09 October 2012 - 08:50

Great. Another weekend of testing new parts - on a track they've no data for - then taking everything off and doing all their setup on Saturday morning.
Can't wait.



you forgot to mention ... on a track that none of the current drivers have previously driven, forget updates, even the drivers don't have baseline data. :(

#2187 Seanspeed

Seanspeed
  • Member

  • 14,524 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 09 October 2012 - 12:19

Great. Another weekend of testing new parts - on a track they've no data for - then taking everything off and doing all their setup on Saturday morning.
Can't wait.

There'll be time for setup stuff in FP1 and 2 still. They've got two drivers, dont forget.

Either way, its in their best interest to get it on the car as soon as possible if it truly is the better solution. If it doesn't work well right away, they'll need to know which areas to work on. Ideally, they'll want to have it all figured out by season's end so they can go into the winter comfortable about their 2013 car from the get-go.

One thing I'd be looking out for is to see if it affects their previously great tire wear.

#2188 quidam

quidam
  • Member

  • 188 posts
  • Joined: June 12

Posted 09 October 2012 - 12:52

If it doesn't work well right away :

“All told, it’s a biggish change rather than an enormous one. It’s also easier to swap to and fro for evaluation.”



We will see if they will continue with this package during FP2

#2189 Starish

Starish
  • Member

  • 986 posts
  • Joined: January 11

Posted 09 October 2012 - 12:55

Will mostly be learning the track for kimi in FP1 since he doesn't use the simulator so it shouldn't be a problem if they test on his car in fp1.

#2190 boldhakka

boldhakka
  • Member

  • 2,802 posts
  • Joined: September 10

Posted 09 October 2012 - 13:10

Risky weekend. Both drivers new to track, "biggish" update testing, cold temperatures ...

Will be impressed and surprised if it turns out to be a clean weekend.

#2191 eronrules

eronrules
  • Member

  • 3,225 posts
  • Joined: January 12

Posted 09 October 2012 - 13:20

they'll need to do comparison runs on both solutions, so one car will have to run old spec. dunno ... setting up ''Coanda'' with rear tire wear took other teams quiet a while. but atleast they should run one car with this throughout the GP, take the risk, like merc did in singapore, perhaps with RoGro's car maybe.

Edited by eronrules, 09 October 2012 - 13:21.


#2192 2ms

2ms
  • Member

  • 2,212 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 09 October 2012 - 13:28

Hopefully this weekend they'll distribute the burden of parts testing across both drivers rather than only using their WDC contender/guinea pig :drunk:

#2193 SpaMaster

SpaMaster
  • Member

  • 5,856 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 09 October 2012 - 16:54

One one hand we hear complaints they Lotus was not developing as well as the big teams. On the other hand so much apprehension in testing updates and losing set up time. New track. Go back soon. Guinea pig. Preference to test because of exerience. Just make the mind up. :stoned:

#2194 grunge

grunge
  • Member

  • 4,411 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 09 October 2012 - 23:15

KOREA PREVIEW

Kimi Raikkonen, Lotus
2011 Qualifying - n/a, 2011 Race - n/a
“I’ve never been to Korea, but it doesn’t make a difference for me. Since I was very young I have always been able to pick up circuits very quickly. This has not changed. It’s always interesting to race at a new venue and I enjoy going to different places. It gives me a good feeling. It is exciting to be going there for the first time and to start work by walking around the circuit and checking all the corners. I’ve seen a Korean Grand Prix on TV, but we’ll have to wait until the first laps of FP1 on Friday to get to grips with the circuit. Hopefully we will have normal weather there and will not miss any track time on Friday because of rain or technical issues. I will approach Yeongam the same way I approach every race - with the intention of going there to do my very best.”

Romain Grosjean, Lotus
2011 Qualifying - n/a, 2011 Race - n/a
“Seoul was very nice when I visited it last year; it’s a fascinating combination of Asian culture with some European flavour too. The circuit is quite remote and it’s a very different part of Korea from Seoul. It’s certainly a different experience from that of many other Grands Prix. The track looks to be a good challenge and it’s going to be great to be racing in front of new fans for Formula One. I do like travelling and seeing new fans. We’ve just left Japan where the supporters are very enthusiastic; they even gave me a flag signed by many people which was really nice. In Korea Formula One is new so it’s fascinating seeing the sport grow and meeting new followers.”

Eric Boullier, Lotus team principal
“Every time you bring new developments you hope that they will work as predicted. The upgrades for Korea are a big step; it is the opening of a new era for us. We expect that they are going to work, but of course it’s always a difficult task to find the correct setup for the car when you are also evaluating new parts. What happened with our ‘DDRS’ shows that you can’t take any improvement for granted until you actually measured it on the track. Let’s say that we are cautiously optimistic.”

James Allison, Lotus technical director
“It’s a bit like Germany. The first part of the circuit is largely straights and sweeping curves and the second half a series of slower speed corners. It averages out as a fairly ordinary type of track with slightly more overtaking opportunities than average. The weather may be a little cooler than we would ideally like it, but we are expecting a good weekend.”


#2195 hijinx

hijinx
  • Member

  • 626 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 10 October 2012 - 01:03

One one hand we hear complaints they Lotus was not developing as well as the big teams. On the other hand so much apprehension in testing updates and losing set up time. New track. Go back soon. Guinea pig. Preference to test because of exerience. Just make the mind up. :stoned:


Dheeban,

your support and positivity for the team and for Kimi is immense and commendable. I think many here have become apprehensive for a variety of reasons. Mainly, the PR talk coming from the team doesn't match the results so far. And every week, we see some problem or another emerging... so it is natural that people start to voice concerns, doubts, etc.

There is no doubt that every team up and down the grid also have their problems, but I dun think they jump the gun and drum up their innovation quite like Lotus. I know Lotus is trying to sensationalize everything to attract new sponsors and keep existing sponsors happy but when the results don't really match up, it is the fans who suffer for it emotionally. I think it's important that fans are able to communicate their feelings and if the team really cares, they will change their approach in time. But maybe they think, ah, again, the crazy kimi fans... what do they know? :rotfl:

#2196 intelligentsia

intelligentsia
  • Member

  • 2,357 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 10 October 2012 - 02:26

One one hand we hear complaints they Lotus was not developing as well as the big teams. On the other hand so much apprehension in testing updates and losing set up time. New track. Go back soon. Guinea pig. Preference to test because of exerience. Just make the mind up. :stoned:


The problem is not that Lotus isn't bringing updates the problem is it simply isn't good enough. Other smaller teams like Sauber and Williams haven't lost out as much as Lotus so it is not a resource problem either, they just diverted their attention onto the wrong route of development. But right lets see what they can do this weekend, hopefully it will be better then last weekend.


#2197 Alexandros

Alexandros
  • Member

  • 1,159 posts
  • Joined: February 03

Posted 10 October 2012 - 06:56

The problem is not that Lotus isn't bringing updates the problem is it simply isn't good enough. Other smaller teams like Sauber and Williams haven't lost out as much as Lotus so it is not a resource problem either, they just diverted their attention onto the wrong route of development. But right lets see what they can do this weekend, hopefully it will be better then last weekend.


Prior to Singapore, Lotus hadn't really brought any significant updates that I can remember, except a couple front wings (earlier in the year)and a different airbox cover with a smaller exit hole (hungary) down the back of the car.

At the same time, other cars have evolved A LOT.

As far as the coanda goes, it troubles me because Lotus does not have the appropriate engine maps to make it work as good as the others. And with the regulation regarding minimal deviation from pre-existing engine maps, it's all the more difficult to optimize engine power + coanda effect.

The extra heat in the back of the car, might also introduce reliability issues. These things take time to "debug" before being raced. I don't know if it's worth it... I guess we'll find out Friday morning.

#2198 Jovanotti

Jovanotti
  • Member

  • 2,936 posts
  • Joined: October 11

Posted 10 October 2012 - 07:39

It's vital for Lotus to introduce these things now. Either it works, fine, or they get mileage and data with the system for next years car (which could turn out quite a beast with the good base of the E20 and an implemented Coanda and the DDRS finally working.

#2199 boldhakka

boldhakka
  • Member

  • 2,802 posts
  • Joined: September 10

Posted 10 October 2012 - 07:41

...
The extra heat in the back of the car, might also introduce reliability issues. These things take time to "debug" before being raced. I don't know if it's worth it... I guess we'll find out Friday morning.


I think the heating is the one thing that they'll already have a handle on because they spent so much time dealing with it last year with their forward facing exhausts. .

The work they put in this weekend will pay off for next year too, so I hope they get plenty of clean testing laps and I don't mind if that compromises the race itself.

Advertisement

#2200 Youichi

Youichi
  • Member

  • 3,000 posts
  • Joined: January 04

Posted 10 October 2012 - 07:48

The problem is not that Lotus isn't bringing updates the problem is it simply isn't good enough. Other smaller teams like Sauber and Williams haven't lost out as much as Lotus so it is not a resource problem either, they just diverted their attention onto the wrong route of development. But right lets see what they can do this weekend, hopefully it will be better then last weekend.


Where is this idea that Lotus have fallen behind come from ?

They started 4th on the grid last GP, how exactly is this falling behind ?