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Lotus E20 - 2012 - Part II


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#2251 FenderJaguar

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 21:58

he sometimes says such strange things, maybe it is the language with French - English. I don't know. But as soon as I read "must stay united" I was wondering if there is tension growing within the Lotus Renault team.

Edited by FenderJaguar, 10 October 2012 - 22:00.


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#2252 eronrules

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 22:00

What's up with all this hate? :rolleyes:


not hate mate, just speaking out my mind loudly. it seems boullier is somehow too overprotective of Grosjean (his investment). also somehow i feel he's too content with finishing safely rather than aiming high. at the beginning of this year, 4th was a dream, but lotus themselves have produced a car capable of winning and raising the expectation, then squandering around in blind development alley like last year. as a team principle, he needs to show more affection and attitude towards better result which i haven't seen from him to be honest.

#2253 korzeniow

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 22:06

not hate mate, just speaking out my mind loudly. it seems boullier is somehow too overprotective of Grosjean (his investment). also somehow i feel he's too content with finishing safely rather than aiming high. at the beginning of this year, 4th was a dream, but lotus themselves have produced a car capable of winning and raising the expectation, then squandering around in blind development alley like last year. as a team principle, he needs to show more affection and attitude towards better result which i haven't seen from him to be honest.


no shit Einstein

coach your preety boy

something new (reason)

yeah, those are valid arguments



do you know what affection he and the team were showing trough the whole season? the win!

#2254 Carlo's

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 22:28

Can't wait for photos of E20 from Korea.

#2255 SchumacherBest01

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 23:06

Williams haven't lost out as much? Last time I checked, Lotus is still a much better car and is closer to the front than Williams. Nothing much has changed between the Lotus-Williams gap from the beginning to now.
Sauber: They have done better in 2 of the 4 races since the break. Does that mean Sauber has done better than Lotus this season? Absolutely not. They come to life now and then when the track and conditions suit them. I am not going to say that when Williams won at Spain or Sauber got 2nd at Malaysia and Monza, they had developed better than Lotus at that point of the season. It was more the case of track characteristics and conditions suiting them at that particular point of the season. How did Sauber compare to Lotus at Singapore? Some teams getting close to top teams at some stretch, and some top teams falling behind some small teams at some stretch is not proof to say that a team with low resources has done better. It has to be consistent and extend over a period of time. That, only Lotus has done. They are the only non-big team in championship fight this season.

Losing out by wrong route of development, hitting the sweetspot with a lucky update, just plain stretch of being less competitive, one cannot be sure of any of these. I maintain that Lotus has been the most impressive team this year, and the most overachieving team this year.


you need to check again!! williams has been faster than lotus since spa!! especially suzuka, maldonado was scaringly fast but decide to play safe and settle for 8th

#2256 Skinnyguy

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 23:17

you need to check again!! williams has been faster than lotus since spa!! especially suzuka, maldonado was scaringly fast but decide to play safe and settle for 8th


No way buddy. Only recent race Williams was faster is Singapore.

#2257 Starish

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 00:39

Paul Seaby ‏@Seabs
the lads did very well last night pre-fitting the latest 'kit' to Kimi's car! Fire them up this morning ready for P1... Coanda here we come!

#2258 korzeniow

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 06:27

first photo, can't see much

Posted Image

click for high resolution

#2259 eronrules

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 06:39

Paul Seaby ‏@Seabs
the lads did very well last night pre-fitting the latest 'kit' to Kimi's car! Fire them up this morning ready for P1... Coanda here we come!


again ... :confused:

:smoking:


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#2260 Torsion

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 06:58

again ... :confused:

:smoking:


Don't think the team has much choice. When they bring a new upgrade pacakge, they need to work based on the assumption that it is going to work, in which case, I would assume that Kimi would prefer to run it from FP1 to get as much time with it as possible.

If you start with the assumption that it is not going to work, you are probably not going to get far with it anyway.



#2261 eronrules

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 07:02

Don't think the team has much choice. When they bring a new upgrade pacakge, they need to work based on the assumption that it is going to work, in which case, I would assume that Kimi would prefer to run it from FP1 to get as much time with it as possible.

If you start with the assumption that it is not going to work, you are probably not going to get far with it anyway.


Lotus's record so far doesn't boast confidence in recent races :rolleyes:, but what the heck, if kimi didn't want it, they wouldn't have put it on his car. so i'll swallow my sarcasm with my morning coffee :wave: .

btw, checked lotus's Tw@tter feed, they are hyping the update way too much and calling it a shot at race victory ... :smoking:

we shall see :cool:

#2262 Torsion

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 07:02

first photo, can't see much

Posted Image

click for high resolution


Thanks for the picture.

From that angle, it doesn't look as if the exhaust outlet is obstructing the coke-bottle too much. Seems to be a Maclaren/Sauber type of solution rather than the RBR or Mercedes solutions.



#2263 Torsion

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 07:04

btw, checked lotus's Tw@tter feed, they are hyping the update way too much and calling it a shot at race victory ... :smoking:


May be they know something we don't :)



#2264 Yoshi

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 07:07

From twitter

First picture or Lotus E20 downwash a.k.a. Coanda style exhaust - Posted Image … via. xpb / photo4 #F1




#2265 SchumacherBest01

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 07:19

im disadppointed the sidepod remain old design. they should copy mclaren and tried to channel more and more air to the rear

#2266 Torsion

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 07:21

im disadppointed the sidepod remain old design. they should copy mclaren and tried to channel more and more air to the rear


Are you referring to the front of the sidepod? The rear looks quite different/updated to me.



#2267 Carlo's

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 07:22

Looks like a simple iteration, but we have to wait for more photos.

#2268 Yoshi

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 07:23

Hi-res picture from the picture above => http://t.co/ZJMMnioS

#2269 SchumacherBest01

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 07:26

Are you referring to the front of the sidepod? The rear looks quite different/updated to me.


front of course!! the double sidepod idea is genius pioneer by sauber!! the rear has to changed to fit the new exhaust pipe

#2270 quidam

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 07:53

im disadppointed the sidepod remain old design. they should copy mclaren and tried to channel more and more air to the rear



do not put the cart before the horse :)

Edited by quidam, 11 October 2012 - 07:54.


#2271 eronrules

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 07:57

their iteration is like sauber one's. although i'm not an aerodynamist, i've always thought Red Bull solution was better as it doesn't have the step that Macca and sauber has, meaning a continuous path to the diffuser side gap. but let's see :smoking:

they seems to have 2 gills near the coke bottle end, which i'm pretty sure they weren't before. but i've to see one picture from the front and side to judge that.

#2272 SchumacherBest01

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 08:01

their iteration is like sauber one's. although i'm not an aerodynamist, i've always thought Red Bull solution was better as it doesn't have the step that Macca and sauber has, meaning a continuous path to the diffuser side gap. but let's see :smoking:

they seems to have 2 gills near the coke bottle end, which i'm pretty sure they weren't before. but i've to see one picture from the front and side to judge that.



this is their prototype....team has changed many version before finalized it!! Rbr version is the best!!

i dont expect big improvement, just at least match sauber pace LOL

#2273 eronrules

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 08:32

By the way, Group Lotus is it the shits, 30 Mil debt and even the chinese aren't interested, DB-hicom wants to get rid of Group lotus and bahar suing for misconduct. i know that Lotus F1 doesn't have any solid connection to Group lotus and doesn't get paid (just re-badging of Renault F1).

but i'd like to know if there will be any potential trouble to LotusF1 if Group lotus folds. any idea fellas ??? :confused:

#2274 KirilVarbanov

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 08:43

Lotus' version of downwash aided flow exhausts, dubbed in media as "Coanda":

Posted Image

#2275 SchumacherBest01

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 08:52

By the way, Group Lotus is it the shits, 30 Mil debt and even the chinese aren't interested, DB-hicom wants to get rid of Group lotus and bahar suing for misconduct. i know that Lotus F1 doesn't have any solid connection to Group lotus and doesn't get paid (just re-badging of Renault F1).

but i'd like to know if there will be any potential trouble to LotusF1 if Group lotus folds. any idea fellas ??? :confused:


no problem at all!! infact, the name might stay forever if they went brankruptcy!! Free publicity is always welcome LOL

#2276 Torsion

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 08:53

Lotus' version of downwash aided flow exhausts, dubbed in media as "Coanda":

Posted Image


Is it me or is the rear bodywork a bit crooked?



#2277 Yoshi

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 08:54

Posted Image

#2278 eronrules

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 08:54

Lotus' version of downwash aided flow exhausts, dubbed in media as "Coanda":



p.s just correcting your mistake, it's not dubbed by media as ''coanda'', it's named after the scientist who recognized it's practical application.

The Coandă effect /ˈkwɑːndə/ is the tendency of a fluid jet to be attracted to a nearby surface.[1] The principle was named after Romanian aerodynamics pioneer Henri Coandă, who was the first to recognize the practical application of the phenomenon in aircraft development


wikipedia - coanda effect

:smoking:

#2279 eronrules

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 09:34

btw, i found it in the 'romain grosjean' thread, in my opinion an honest account of romains incidents this year and it's implecations. no need to discuss here please as it's lotus E20 thread, but give it a read and visit 'romains' thread


link : how-do-you-solve-a-problem-like-romain

:smoking:

P.S thanks @monacomaster for the original post :wave:

Edited by eronrules, 11 October 2012 - 09:36.


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#2280 KirilVarbanov

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 09:49

p.s just correcting your mistake, it's not dubbed by media as ''coanda'', it's named after the scientist who recognized it's practical application.



wikipedia - coanda effect

:smoking:

I know, I've written an article in my blog a long time ago, it's just the aero term is "downwash effect". But I don't think anyone really cares - at least some recognition for Henri ...

Edited by kvarbanov, 11 October 2012 - 09:49.


#2281 One

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 09:53

first photo, can't see much

Posted Image

click for high resolution


Beautiful Brake ducts sculpting!

Lotus' version of downwash aided flow exhausts, dubbed in media as "Coanda":

Posted Image


I love the way hot air is extracted from the side pods. Looks to me a very clean solution for air up on the chassis.

Donno how the exhaust itslef look a like, but the over all solution looks to me very well refined indeed. Looking forward.

#2282 eronrules

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 10:12

two more images from korea

Posted Image

Posted Image

no change in FW, same as suzuka

Edited by eronrules, 11 October 2012 - 10:22.


#2283 eronrules

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 10:22

this picture should give us a better view of the coanda exhaust :rolleyes:

Posted Image

#2284 Carlo's

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 10:23

Here's their Coanda:
https://pbs.twimg.co...E9Fdc.jpg:large

#2285 H2H

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 11:16


Scarbs did talk quite a bit about the Lotus in TFL. :up:

#2286 MadYarpen

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 11:22

this picture should give us a better view of the coanda exhaust :rolleyes:

Posted Image

hopefully it is going to work right from the start, at least it looks like an elegant solution with no butt ugly ducts.

#2287 F.M.

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 11:41

this picture should give us a better view of the coanda exhaust :rolleyes:

Posted Image

Is the big opening in the engine cover new as well? Can't remember having seen such a large opening there?

Edit: or are there some pieces missing (DDRS stuff)?

Edited by F.M., 11 October 2012 - 11:41.


#2288 Zava

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 11:44

Is the big opening in the engine cover new as well? Can't remember having seen such a large opening there?

Edit: or are there some pieces missing (DDRS stuff)?

not with that beam wing. there is an upsidedown U profile in the middle of the 'device' version of the beam wing.

#2289 intelligentsia

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 11:45

Williams haven't lost out as much? Last time I checked, Lotus is still a much better car and is closer to the front than Williams. Nothing much has changed between the Lotus-Williams gap from the beginning to now.
Sauber: They have done better in 2 of the 4 races since the break. Does that mean Sauber has done better than Lotus this season? Absolutely not. They come to life now and then when the track and conditions suit them. I am not going to say that when Williams won at Spain or Sauber got 2nd at Malaysia and Monza, they had developed better than Lotus at that point of the season. It was more the case of track characteristics and conditions suiting them at that particular point of the season. How did Sauber compare to Lotus at Singapore? Some teams getting close to top teams at some stretch, and some top teams falling behind some small teams at some stretch is not proof to say that a team with low resources has done better. It has to be consistent and extend over a period of time. That, only Lotus has done. They are the only non-big team in championship fight this season.

Losing out by wrong route of development, hitting the sweetspot with a lucky update, just plain stretch of being less competitive, one cannot be sure of any of these. I maintain that Lotus has been the most impressive team this year, and the most overachieving team this year.


What I was saying is that compared to where the front teams are, in other words, Red Bull Mclaren and Ferrari, other midfield teams like Sauber and Williams are still performing at a similar scale against them then what they where doing at the beginning of the year. While Lotus on the otherhand doesn't have the same margin of performance against Red Bull, Mclaren and Ferrari anymore. This isn't just an issue of circuits not suiting the car.

In the first part of the year Lotus was faster then Sauber and Williams, and now we have the situation where these two teams are regularly faster then Lotus. And it is not just those two teams. It is Force India as well. In Spa Kimi was struggling to keep ahead of Hulkenberg. In Singapore and Monza, which is two very different tracks they where faster then Lotus, and again in Suzuka Kimi was struggling to keep ahead of Hulkenberg. I think it is very safe to say that Lotus has gone backwards from where they were at the beginning of the year.

Lotus being the most impressive team is your opinion, nothing to agree or disagree about a personal opinion.


#2290 eronrules

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 11:49

Is the big opening in the engine cover new as well? Can't remember having seen such a large opening there?

Edit: or are there some pieces missing (DDRS stuff)?


there is a bit missing form the coke bottol (the U-wing in front of monkey seat. i think they'll add that bit when the car is running)

#2291 grunge

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 13:10

Thanks everyone for the pictures...exciting stuff to say the least.

1.New Engine cover..(Yes FM,it definitely looks new)

2.New Diffuser

3.The Coanda exhaust...Looks like copied from the Mclaren solution.


The Exhaust will usually take a couple of GPs to start reaping results as they find the sweet spot with setups...



#2292 Baddoer

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 13:12

So thats coala effect... Should it make car will be quicker, what do think?

#2293 grunge

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 13:24

I think the heating is the one thing that they'll already have a handle on because they spent so much time dealing with it last year with their forward facing exhausts. .

The work they put in this weekend will pay off for next year too, so I hope they get plenty of clean testing laps and I don't mind if that compromises the race itself.


Yup..Heated gases shouldnt be an issue here as the outflow gets somewhat cooled down before it hits the floor of the car..its was a much bigger problem with front facing exhausts...but i reckon they'll still have some floor fireproofing this weekend.

This is my entire point. F1 fans fall for this all the time. A couple tracks where the car doesn't go well and 'they've fallen behind in the development race'. It happens every year. There's times where a car genuinely does fall behind, but its too early to say thats the case here.


i have no idea how some of you continue to tell everyone that Lotus havent fallen behind the update race..Allison himself has admitted that on 3 or 4 different occasions during the past few weekends since Spa.

And no it cannot be explained by Lotus not being good at a certain type of circuit..Spa,Monza,Singapore and now Suzuka..we've been off pace on all of them and these tracks pretty much cover the entire spectrum of tracks.

Thanks for the picture.

From that angle, it doesn't look as if the exhaust outlet is obstructing the coke-bottle too much. Seems to be a Maclare Seemsn/Sauber type of solution rather than the RBR or Mercedes solutions.


Yup looks exactly like the Mclaren solution to me.thats what every team on the grid bar RB is using.

Edited by grunge, 11 October 2012 - 13:26.


#2294 korzeniow

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 13:31

OK get ready for some hi-res photos

Posted Image

Posted Image

Here is Romain's car, but you an still see new floor:

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image


#2295 boldhakka

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 13:33

OK get ready for some hi-res photos

Posted Image


This is exactly what I wanted to see. Thanks, korzeniow.

#2296 Torsion

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 13:41

This is exactly what I wanted to see. Thanks, korzeniow.


Does the Lotus exhaust exit seems to be further forward in the car than the Maclaren or Sauber solutions? possibly not to disturb the coke bottle too much with over hanging bodywork?

Also it does look fairly refined. Hoping for the best.

Edited by Torsion, 11 October 2012 - 13:50.


#2297 SpaMaster

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 14:04

Lotus's record so far doesn't boast confidence in recent races :rolleyes:, but what the heck, if kimi didn't want it, they wouldn't have put it on his car. so i'll swallow my sarcasm with my morning coffee :wave: .

btw, checked lotus's Tw@tter feed, they are hyping the update way too much and calling it a shot at race victory ... :smoking:

we shall see :cool:

Hoping for victory is not hype. They really need to shoot for wins to be in contention for championship.

..
Lotus being the most impressive team is your opinion, nothing to agree or disagree about a personal opinion.

Of course it is my opinion. I never forced anyone to agree or disagree with it specifically.

Edited by SpaMaster, 11 October 2012 - 14:19.


#2298 boldhakka

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 14:18

What was the rationale for not running it on Grosjean's car this weekend? I wonder if this is an example of budget constraints or if this is part of their approach to test the updates with the right baselines.

The update, if it works, has the potential to put Lotus ahead of or on par with the front again. Even a fraction of the simulator-predicted gains will be quite substantial, I suspect.

No rain predicted for the weekend is a good start. Let's hope the planets align and everything falls into place so their hard work pays off.

#2299 tarmac

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 15:04

Its obviously one kit flown straight from factory. There is no time to do multiple as it obviously couldnt be ran at suzuka just a week ago

Edited by tarmac, 11 October 2012 - 15:07.


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#2300 SpaMaster

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 15:56

No no no, let's test it on Grosjean's car, and if it works then we can bolt it on Kimi's car! They should not risk Kimi's race set-up, qualy set-up, new-circuit trial runs, blah blah..