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Lotus E20 - 2012 - Part II


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#2351 Carlo's

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 07:32

I'm curious if they have spares for Grosjean too. But it's a good signs that new exhaust stays. Let's have this DDRS sorted after Abu Dhabi GP and two last races could be competitive. I don't expect any big results there, though.

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#2352 Trust

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 07:35

Does this mean that Kimi's car was much heavier than lets say Alonso's in FP2? No way that he is that much behind.

#2353 Jovanotti

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 07:52

Does this mean that Kimi's car was much heavier than lets say Alonso's in FP2? No way that he is that much behind.

These numbers are useless, or do you think Webber is a second slower than Alonso? There you go...

#2354 Miggeex

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 08:09

With these new updates they have much more important stuff to do than hotlapping.

#2355 intelligentsia

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 08:19

Kimi barely did any race simulations at all.

Okay it is good if the new updates are staying on the car.

#2356 Carlo's

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 08:24

Well, coanda isn't even optimised yet and won't be tomorrow. It takes time to get to know important changes to the car, but hopefully they will make the most of it in Korea.

#2357 Jovanotti

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 08:25

Well, coanda isn't even optimised yet and won't be tomorrow. It takes time to get to know important changes to the car, but hopefully they will make the most of it in Korea.

Lotus normally come up with quite a bit of pace from Friday to Saturday after analysis, so I expect them to do better tomorrow.

Edited by Jovanotti, 12 October 2012 - 08:26.


#2358 grunge

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 08:37

There is no way we can tell from today if the coanda is working or not..its their first version...itll take time,probably 2 or 3 Gps atleast for them to get it working in harmony with the rest of the car..

Im optimistic..there was no early drop in pace that can happen when you introduce an update for the first time...something which means they have it dialled it right to begin with.Just Lotus a bit more time and we'll see the gains coming in leaps and bounds.



#2359 grunge

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 08:39

Lotus to stick with Coanda-effect exhausts for Korean Grand Prix

Lotus is set to keep its new Coanda-effect exhaust system on the car for the rest of the Korean Grand Prix.

The new package was initially trialled on Kimi Raikkonen's car in Yeongam practice.

Lotus technical director James Allison underlined that the upgrade was far from optimised, but indicated it would stay on the car into the weekend.

"We're reasonably happy with the way they are working," he said.

"We are at the beginning of a relatively long road with them. It's not straightforward to make them work from the start, but numbers we got are good so we are quite pleased."

Asked if Lotus would keep the exhausts on for Saturday, Allison replied: "I think so, yeah. We haven't decided yet but it looks like we will."

Allison added that Lotus had been working on the exhaust system since the start of the year, but had not prioritised the development as it was getting consistently strong results without it.

"At the point where we were committing to what we were going to start the season with, we had a Coanda path and a simple exhaust to optimise power," he said.

"At the time the Coanda solution was worth a bit more than the power maximising solution but you had to be confident that it was going to deliver on the downforce loss.

"Where we were when we launched the car, that was a finely balanced decision, and we got away and had a reasonably bright season and have been pretty competitive deep into the year.

"We worked on the other option because that was where the centre of opinion in the pitlane was.

"It got to the point where the gain of the Coanda system was sufficiently ahead of our previous race system that it was clearly something to look at this year and to make sure we were doing the right thing for next year.

"We could have committed earlier but things were going quite well for us on track."

Lotus's last major development was its double-DRS, which has yet to make it beyond practice as the team struggled to get the best out of the system.

"We're not giving up on it because there is some goodness in there, but that really is tricky. Well, we found it so," Allison said.

"So we will keep working on that, but probably you will not see it as much on Fridays.

"We will bring it out to play at the young drivers' test and hope to make some progress there."


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#2360 grunge

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 08:43

More new exhaust pictures.

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#2361 eronrules

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 08:56

More new exhaust pictures.



gotta say, looks good with black bodywork, shiny :cool:

#2362 One

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 09:10

Posted Image

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:up: :up:

Huge work being carred out! Got to say that the whole aero work is done beautifully. I got belief in the team finding the right set up for tomorrow.
Looking forward.

#2363 eronrules

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 09:14

however, judging the coanda of macca/sauber/ferrari, it seems the amount of overhang on lotus extended exhaust is much less than others. if we look at macca's for example. it almost forms a double floor. lotus's coanda is much closer to bodywork.

#2364 Cyanide

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 09:18

I'm quite confident they will find the right setup tomorrow. They can find at least 5 tenths more judging from their previous weekends and how much they improve from Friday to Saturday.

#2365 One

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 09:20

however, judging the coanda of macca/sauber/ferrari, it seems the amount of overhang on lotus extended exhaust is much less than others. if we look at macca's for example. it almost forms a double floor. lotus's coanda is much closer to bodywork.


I assume that is because the length of the exhaust cannot be changed due output performance. Lunger slits above the body work will also reduce the effects of blowing, if you look at Sauber and RBR, the overhang is much smaller and it still works. So there is not much to find here. Ferrari did have more and had more problem so I say Lotus has been running in tuned mode to find out the setting.

#2366 One

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 09:21

Besides the benefit of clean rear body work is that more air flows towards the rear wing and that creates more down force that is handy here... Keep up your good work the team!

#2367 eronrules

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 09:22

I assume that is because the length of the exhaust cannot be changed due output performance. Lunger slits above the body work will also reduce the effects of blowing, if you look at Sauber and RBR, the overhang is much smaller and it still works. So there is not much to find here. Ferrari did have more and had more problem so I say Lotus has been running in tuned mode to find out the setting.


RBR really has a continuous body work towards the diffuser for better attachment and guidance of exhaust. also i think they have sort of enclosed tunnel arrangement just before the diffuser for maximum sealing between tire and diffuser.

#2368 boldhakka

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 09:23

Generally a pretty clean Friday. Very difficult to compare cars based on laptimes, looks like everyone was running their own different programs today.

Lots of room for improvement in the final sector.

Edited by boldhakka, 12 October 2012 - 09:24.


#2369 Zava

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 09:36

Tobias Grüner F1 ‏@tgruener
#f1 Lotus has two sets of the new coanda exhaust in #Korea. But it's likely only Kimi will use it on saturday: http://bit.ly/QgAFg5

#2370 eronrules

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 09:44

Tobias Grüner F1 ‏@tgruener
#f1 Lotus has two sets of the new coanda exhaust in #Korea. But it's likely only Kimi will use it on saturday: http://bit.ly/QgAFg5

that's cause they need to compare the race pace with different solutions. i hope kimi's car shows better pace come saturday & sunday :wave:

#2371 eronrules

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 09:51

looking at sector times, TBH lotus doesn't look bad. kimi in FP2 is faster than both FI and nico rosber in sector 2&3, but sector 1 (with long straight) kimi's strugling. but compared to RBR, lotusf1 is suffering in the final sector. perhaps it's due to kimi's lack of experience in the twisty last sector. track evolution is also another key aspect. but mostly i think LotusF1 cars are yet to run in anger. hopefully tomorrow we'll see some REAL PACE


SECTOR TIMES FP2

#2372 boldhakka

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 09:57

Lotus Friday quotes:

Kimi Raikkonen, P1 - 1:40.929, 11th; P2 - 1:39.839, 10th
“The circuit is okay; it’s surprisingly bumpy in some parts but it’s quite different from other places we race. It’s difficult for me to say about the exhaust until I’ve sat down with the engineers and gone through the data. We’ll try to improve the car for tomorrow as it wasn’t very easy to drive and get a good lap today. Let’s see if we can get it completely right and maybe we can be in the top five in qualifying.”

Romain Grosjean, P1 - 1:40.422, 8th; P2 - 1:39.957, 11th
“It’s not been the easiest day. I think we still have some work to do with the car to get the best out of the tyres so tomorrow morning will be important. The track is interesting but it’s not been so hard to learn. The trickiest part is definitely Turns 11 and 12 which are not easy to get exactly right but overall it’s not too bad. On the positive side we’ve had a good amount of time learning the circuit and gathered a lot of data, so hopefully we can analyse things overnight and see an improved performance by the time we get to qualifying.”

Alan Permane, Lotus trackside operations director
“We ran the Coandã exhaust system on Kimi’s car for both sessions. Romain ran with the Singapore generation rear wing for evaluation at the start of FP1, swapping to the Japan spec rear wing for the remainder of the day. Pirelli’s soft compound tyre was used in the morning, the soft and super soft in the afternoon. The Coanda exhaust performed as expected aerodynamically. Heavy fuel balance and tyre degradation levels were both promising.”

James Allison, Lotus technical director
“We’re happy with how the new exhaust worked from a performance perspective and now need to assess if there are any potential reliability implications due to the hot exhaust gas running in different areas than usual. Early impressions are certainly good and we expect to retain it for the rest of the weekend with Kimi. Both drivers learnt the circuit very quickly. Romain complained of a little too much oversteer and with Kimi there’s still potential with the setup, especially as we learn more about the new exhaust. Both drivers reported that they were very happy with the balance of the car when on high fuel loads and degradation levels look manageable from the tyres so it’s been a productive first day.”

Edited by boldhakka, 12 October 2012 - 09:57.


#2373 Miggeex

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 10:02

I believe that the biggest difference comes from fuel at the moment. The difference to the leader is quite even in every sector. Around 3 tenths. In the twisty S3 with lot of accelerations and brakings + the final long right hander it makes bigger difference.

Unless the Red Bulls also drives with similar fuel levels. But we'll see tomorrow :)

Edited by Miggeex, 12 October 2012 - 10:03.


#2374 eronrules

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 10:06

Kimi Raikkonen : We’ll try to improve the car for tomorrow as it wasn’t very easy to drive and get a good lap today. Let’s see if we can get it completely right and maybe we can be in the top five in qualifying.”

both pessimism an optimism ... that's kimi for you :lol:


Alan Permane : Romain ran with the Singapore generation rear wing for evaluation at the start of FP1, swapping to the Japan spec rear wing for the remainder of the day. Pirelli’s soft compound tyre was used in the morning, the soft and super soft in the afternoon. The Coanda exhaust performed as expected aerodynamically. Heavy fuel balance and tyre degradation levels were both promising.”

i thought they were the same, singapore RW didn't work in singapore and they reverted back to old spec, then they used singapore RW in japan - is what i've assumed. confusing :confused:

[b]James Allison, Lotus technical director
“We’re happy with how the new exhaust worked from a performance perspective and now need to assess if there are any potential reliability implications due to the hot exhaust gas running in different areas than usual. Early impressions are certainly good and we expect to retain it for the rest of the weekend with Kimi.

:up:
both Allison and Permane are optimistic on coanda, let's hope it stays that way :rolleyes:

#2375 eronrules

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 10:15

short tech analysis from F1technical.com on lotus conada exhaust

The layout very much resembles that of McLaren's downwash exhaust, however on the Lotus it does feature only a very minor bulge, instead the exhaust channel is almost seemlessly integrated into an unchanged sidepod shape. Another interesting detail is the metallic channel used by the team instead of special coated carbon fibre that other teams are using for weight benefits.

Also interesting is that the team are still not in need to extra cooling of the exhaust. Apart from two gills above the frontal upper suspension arm of the rear wheel, not additional outlets have been added - contrary to Ferrari, McLaren and Mercedes who all added gills around the exhaust at the time of introduction of their Coanda exhausts.


i hope it doesn't affect the KERS unit :|

#2376 grunge

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 11:53

however, judging the coanda of macca/sauber/ferrari, it seems the amount of overhang on lotus extended exhaust is much less than others. if we look at macca's for example. it almost forms a double floor. lotus's coanda is much closer to bodywork.

That is true..the Lotus solution seems much less radical than the other top teams..at first glance it looked like the Mclaren solution but as you inspect it in detail,its probably more akin to Williams design.

The smoothness of the sidepods has been maintained,apparently Lotus donot want to sacrifice their original 'coke bottle effect'.Also the ''hump/lump'' of the new exhaust is much smaller than the Mclaren design.

This is just the first version..i think we'll see much more aggressive changes as the season proceeds.

#2377 Trust

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 11:55

Traditionally the supersoft and soft combination didn't work the whole season for Lotus. They find it hard to extract maximum from it, especially Kimi has some problems with super soft. However, I somehow feel there is huge potential if they can find right setup for Coanda. Fingers crossed.

#2378 grunge

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 11:57

short tech analysis from F1technical.com on lotus conada exhaust



i hope it doesn't affect the KERS unit :|

I think Lotus will have the ''heating issues'' well covered..they have significant data and experience with that as they ran the forward exhaust solution last year,which has much more hot gas issues that the coanda design

#2379 grunge

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 12:04

Lotus Friday quotes:

Kimi Raikkonen, P1 - 1:40.929, 11th; P2 - 1:39.839, 10th
“The circuit is okay; it’s surprisingly bumpy in some parts but it’s quite different from other places we race. It’s difficult for me to say about the exhaust until I’ve sat down with the engineers and gone through the data. We’ll try to improve the car for tomorrow as it wasn’t very easy to drive and get a good lap today. Let’s see if we can get it completely right and maybe we can be in the top five in qualifying.”

This comment should fuel optimism even further..considering KR wasnt comfortable with the car and still

@andrewbensonf1

Interesting. Race sim avgs: Alonso 1:45.588; Massa 1:45.756; Button 1:45.797; Vettel 1:46.172; Raikkonen 1:46.368; Webber 1:46.461; Ham N/A


Every team will improve tomorrow with better setups but the potential for KR/Lotus is the greatest because they ran the new exhaust today and are still way behind their optimal setup.

Fingers crossed guys..this looks good for next year too.We're right in the Exhaust race now.

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#2380 eronrules

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 12:04

Traditionally the supersoft and soft combination didn't work the whole season for Lotus. They find it hard to extract maximum from it, especially Kimi has some problems with super soft. However, I somehow feel there is huge potential if they can find right setup for Coanda. Fingers crossed.


what makes u say that ??? :confused:

#2381 MadYarpen

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 12:06

what makes u say that ??? :confused:

I think it's because he was not spectacular in qualy so far.

#2382 eronrules

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 12:12

I think it's because he was not spectacular in qualy so far.


on supersoft, kimi's quali performance is not so good, i admit that. :well: but looking back at last couple of races, i think kimi's main problem lies with mercedes more than anything. he needs to qualify before both the mercs, how many races has been ruined by following the gearbox of schumi i wonder. also looking at the sector times, mercs are blisteringly fast in the first sector. cause for concern :(

#2383 MadYarpen

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 12:29

Well, but Merc is not the cause of his qualy performance, the performance itself results in problems with merc drivers. His main problem is that he, or his car, whatever, is not quick enough :lol:

#2384 grunge

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 19:15

Raikkonen on the new exhaust.

Q :You ran the new Coandă exhaust today; how did it feel from behind the wheel?

KR: The car can feel completely different from place to place even if you don’t change anything at all, so I can’t really say if it felt so different or not as we’ve only used if for one day at one track. We have to look at the data to see how it’s working before deciding if we’re going to keep using it or not. The good thing is that there were no problems with it. We spent a bit of time in the garage in the first session but there was nothing stopping us running; just normal checks and things you have to try out with new parts which takes a bit of time.

Q: Both cars were hovering around the mid-pack on the time sheets today; how much do you read into that?

KR: We were about a second off the leaders today and there’s definitely room for improvement, but there’s no point reading into anything on a Friday. We’re usually around this sort of position on the first day and we always improve so let’s hope it’s the same tomorrow. To be honest, I don’t care about the lap times as long as we get a good understanding of the car so we can try to put everything together tomorrow; that’s what matters. If we can get it completely right then maybe we can be in the top five in qualifying. Let’s wait and see.

#2385 tarmac

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 19:21

both pessimism an optimism ... that's kimi for you :lol:


Kimi trashed his car in team radio even after AUS2007 quali..

#2386 grunge

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 04:34

Qualifying starts win half an hour.

We're not at Mclaren and RB's pace but im still impressed by the improvement.Kudos to Lotus :up: Also the new exhaust will decrease tire wear out of slow corners/medium speed corners(S1) and thus yield even better longer runs for Lotus.Means we can probably pull off a 1 stopper.

We're on for a podium.Expect them to run longer 1st or 2nd stints(depending on 1 or 2 stopper) than the top2

Edited by grunge, 13 October 2012 - 04:40.


#2387 grunge

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 04:38


Korean GP: Pirelli says one-stop strategy possible
Autosport


Pirelli believes a one-stop tyre strategy could be a possibility in the Korean Grand Prix because of the unique nature of the circuit.

The track surface and layout of the Yeongam track poses a difficult challenge for the teams, with getting the tyres in to the right operating window a bigger challenge that dealing with degradation.

Pirelli motorsport director Paul Hembery believes that could mean strategy being fairly straightforward in Sunday's race.

"Here it is quite a strange circuit because it looks like a permanent normal fast circuit but the surface itself is like a street circuit," he said. "It is very smooth, so there are low wear levels.

"From the tyre point of view, the structure comes under relatively heavy loads in terms of braking and laterals, but the compound itself is worked quite lightly which is why we came with the soft and super soft.

"Last year, people suggested that decision was quite crazy and we would have five or six pit stops - and we saw there were two.

"That will be replicated this time around, possibly with people looking at a one-stop race."

Hembery said the lap time difference between the super soft and soft tyres is between 0.2 and 0.6 seconds depending on the car - which makes it possible that some of the teams at the bottom end of the top 10 in qualifying may elect not to go for a lap time on the super soft.

"That is absolutely possible," said Hembery. "It is that close – as you might be able to go a vast majority of the race on the soft tyres. The rear tyre could probably do the whole race, as here you are front limited."


#2388 grunge

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 05:12

KR on top with 8 minutes to go ..0.8 sec faster than Grosjean....

#2389 Carlo's

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 06:03

Well, Coanda seems to be working a bit.

#2390 pryanjack

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 06:04

P5 and P7, not bad, not bad at all

#2391 Yellowmc

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 06:04

Yep, updates do seem to be working given Kimi's gap to Grosjean. Looking forward to the race.

#2392 Trust

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 06:06

Yep, updates do seem to be working given Kimi's gap to Grosjean. Looking forward to the race.

Well, that's only if you think Kimi=Grosjean on speed, taking into account that Coanda gives you .3 tenths.

#2393 grunge

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 06:07

Satisfied with Quali..P5 and P7 is ok.

Raikkonen had 0.3 on RG with the new exhaust..i think the difference will be bigger on long runs with KR having less wear.

#2394 Yellowmc

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 06:08

Well, that's only if you think Kimi=Grosjean on speed, taking into account that Coanda gives you .3 tenths.


No, I actually think in Quali, Grosjean is a little faster so perhaps the updates are giving more time. We'll see.

#2395 Jovanotti

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 06:10

Veery pleased, finally a good Q3 lap!

Oh, and I guess Fernando will yield a bit more tomorrow :lol:

#2396 limit

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 06:12

It was morw fantastic kimi lap then update. He was at Suzuka fast like this, but made that mistake. Now he got it.

#2397 Topsu

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 06:14

Not bad, not bad.

#2398 korzeniow

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 06:22

Finally! Q3 nailed :up:

Although Permane said Romain didn't put a perfect lap together so maby Massa was within reach

#2399 Torsion

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 06:28

I don't think there is anyone particularly slower than us ahead of us, so we should be able to manage the race without being held up. If a one stopper is possible, may be that is an option.

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#2400 SpaMaster

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 06:33

I don't think there is anyone particularly slower than us ahead of us, so we should be able to manage the race without being held up. If a one stopper is possible, may be that is an option.

Yes, I think it is time to think out of the box to make up points gain for the championship. If one stopper is any possibility, they should go for it. I don't care if he falls like a pack of cars as in China.