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Lotus E20 - 2012 - Part II


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#2401 OSX

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 06:34

Finally! Q3 nailed :up:

Although Permane said Romain didn't put a perfect lap together so maby Massa was within reach

Yup! :up:

Romain seemed a bit down and nervous when interviewed. Hope he manages to get through the race without crashing this time before the guy breaks down completely, and puts himself out of F1.

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#2402 DrF

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 06:35

Neither Lotus driver has ever raced here, so that makes their result even better. I wonder where they'd have ended up without the yellow flag.

#2403 Oho

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 06:44

Neither Lotus driver has ever raced here, so that makes their result even better. I wonder where they'd have ended up without the yellow flag.


Why should it have made any difference as it was Q2 and both made it through?

#2404 intelligentsia

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 06:47

Good job from the team to improve the car setup from yesterday.

#2405 korzeniow

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 08:20

speed trap: http://www.formula1....speed_trap.html

sectors top speeds: http://en.mclarenf-1...e...;s=7094&p=5

Strange. Highest top sped in S1 but the lowest in speed trap

#2406 Torsion

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 08:22

speed trap: http://www.formula1....speed_trap.html

sectors top speeds: http://en.mclarenf-1...e...;s=7094&p=5

Strange. Highest top sped in S1 but the lowest in speed trap


Has to be a gearing thing. So its the reverse of Monza. The lotus picks up speed faster than others, but then stalls at 310.



#2407 boldhakka

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 09:52

Lotus , post qualifying comments via F1.com:

Kimi Raikkonen (5th, Q3 - 1m 37.625s)
“Qualifying was okay and I think we did the best we could have done. We tried some different things on the car over the weekend and qualified in a reasonably good position, but of course you always want to go faster. The new exhaust system feels good; you do lose a little horsepower from it but it’s better on the aero side and you can’t get something for nothing. The gap to the cars at the front is not too much so we’ll try to do what we can tomorrow.”

Romain Grosjean (7th, Q3 - 1m 37.934s)
“It was a bit of a strange qualifying session for me to be honest; In Q1 the car felt nowhere, in Q2 it was good, then in Q3 it wasn’t fantastic either so we need to spend some time analysing what happened. The track changed a little and the tyres felt slightly different so we need to understand that. For sure there will be a lot of attention on my start tomorrow; I know my objectives and I think we’re capable of a good result.”

Alan Permane, Lotus trackside operations director
“It looks like our new package is working as it should. We’re reasonably happy with today’s performance and it looks like our new package is working as it should. We’ve clearly taken a step forward and getting both cars solidly into Q3 is satisfying.

“We have made clear performance gains and there’s still further improvement to come from (the new Coanda exhaust) once we have optimised the set-up. Kimi had great pace in Q1 to go through with a single run on the soft tyre whereas Romain needed a set of the super softs to be sure of getting into Q2, but from then on we were confident of getting both cars into Q3. The advantage from the new Coanda exhaust system on Kimi’s car confirms that we will run it on both for the next race.

“After some difficulties with front tyre graining yesterday we now have both the soft and super-soft compounds working well. We’ve seen track improvement and have also found a better set-up to make improvements in this area. Pirelli say one stop is possible, which is something we’ll have a good close look at.”

#2408 Trust

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 10:00

Lotus , post qualifying comments via F1.com:

Kimi Raikkonen (5th, Q3 - 1m 37.625s)
“Qualifying was okay and I think we did the best we could have done. We tried some different things on the car over the weekend and qualified in a reasonably good position, but of course you always want to go faster. The new exhaust system feels good; you do lose a little horsepower from it but it’s better on the aero side and you can’t get something for nothing. The gap to the cars at the front is not too much so we’ll try to do what we can tomorrow.”


Comments from F1.com are much different than the one at autosport. On AS he completely downplayed coanda system to today's performance in qualifying.

#2409 swerved

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 10:40

http://twitter.com/L...0/photo/1/large

:lol:

#2410 korzeniow

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 11:18

http://twitter.com/L...0/photo/1/large

:lol:


I don't get it. What's the joke?

#2411 hijinx

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 11:25

http://twitter.com/L...0/photo/1/large

:lol:

funny they dun even realize they were using the wrong car!

#2412 swerved

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 11:49

funny they dun even realize they were using the wrong car!


Neither did i!! Good spot.

Korzeniow "Do not take to copy shop, if do take to copy shop get receipt, it may be tax deductable"

Referencing spygate, and the fact that McLarens fine has been judged to be tax deductible.


#2413 korzeniow

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 12:01

Oh, now it makes sense, thanks swerved

#2414 Skinnyguy

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 14:25

Comments from F1.com are much different than the one at autosport. On AS he completely downplayed coanda system to today's performance in qualifying.


I prefer that´s the case. It´d mean that there´s still plenty of... how they say? Oh yes, "potential to unlock" in the system :lol:

If they can start moving forward as they learn about it in the remaining of the season, things could get interesting. Big question mark now is coanda car race pace.

#2415 Amin

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 14:26

Has to be a gearing thing. So its the reverse of Monza. The lotus picks up speed faster than others, but then stalls at 310.


Yeah, Kimi seemed to be hitting the limiter quite early.

#2416 korzeniow

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 14:27

What are your expectations for the race?

Given our drivers start on clean side with a little bit of luck both should jump their Ferrari rivals. So Kimi in front of Fernando and Romain in front of Massa. If they would keep it so to the end of the race Lotus would gain 4 points over Ferrari in WCC.

Could Kimi stand on podium? We will se whether updates will allow Kimi to challenge RBRs and Lewis on the pace. Ferrari also have very good race pace.

It will be tough race

#2417 Skinnyguy

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 14:29

Has to be a gearing thing. So its the reverse of Monza. The lotus picks up speed faster than others, but then stalls at 310.


That has to be aimed to the start. It´s mega important, and there´s plenty of places to win on the way down to turn 7, where they´ll finally spread out.

Could get ugly in a DRS train ala Spa thought.

#2418 boldhakka

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 14:59

Grosjean can probably take Massa off the start or during the race. There aren't any significantly slower cars ahead of Kimi and no significantly faster cars behind him (bar Button), so ending the race in fifth and sixth is the safest bet based on speed and ignoring external factors.

The front tyres go away quicker than the rears in this track. I'm worried that this will impact Kimi a little since he doesn't go so well when the fronts lose grip. So if they try a 1-stopper, it'll probably be with Grosjean as opposed to Kimi.

Kimi hasn't done any race simulations/long runs with his current setup, so there's a question mark on tyre degradation there. Grosjean didn't seem entirely happy with the variations in car behavior in qualy, hopefully he can figure it out overnight.

Overall, I'll be pleased with 5th and 6th. Would need some DNFs and other circumstances for podium (or a successful 1-stopper, which I think is unlikely).

#2419 tarmac

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 15:03

http://www.yallaf1.c...ce-longer-bans/

Swiss steward Paul Gutjahr, a F1 steward since 1995, told Blick newspaper in Korea: “The Frenchman is warned. Another crash, and he will be a spectator on more than another occasion.”


Grosjean needs a good start otherwise he could be compromised desperately trying to avoid contacts

Edited by tarmac, 13 October 2012 - 15:04.


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#2420 eronrules

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 15:06

sorry for being late, i've gotta download the english feed and watch later(being in germany :wave: ) the coanda seems to produce atleast 0.3 sec improvement over standard exhaust (compared to grosjean) which is good. :up:

reason for Q2 time slump is as follows

At one point in Q2 there was a bit too much understeer but we managed to get rid of it. I think it was because my first set of tyres wasn’t so great but we switched to a different set, added a bit more front wing and the car felt much better.


according to Kimi, coanda exhaust improves rear grip but compromises top speed (may explain RBR's sudden dominance in speed with DDRS). what i'm dreading though is massa with his ferrari will likely jump kimi in the 800m straight after T2. also not to forget the mercs are lurking behind with their top speed. i'll go nuts if i see kimi stuck behind schumi again ):

on the positive side, alonso just in front of kimi :p perhaps alonso will hesitate a bit (hopefully) and stop pulling tricks on kimsta. kimi has a better chance of closing the gap to alonso. also seeing the wrong RBR is on pole, there might be fireworks between two RBR's. (although DC thinks RBR will use team strategy to swap position)

kimi is also hopefull ...

This is probably the best we’ve been in qualifying for a while and the gap to the cars at the front is not too much, so for sure it gives us a better chance of a good result in the race. We don’t know what fuel levels the others were running yesterday, but our long run pace looked pretty strong so hopefully with the speed we’ve shown in qualifying we can score lots of points. There’s no use trying to predict the result because anything can happen, but I think we’ve got a good chance for a decent result so let’s see what we can do…


regarding Romain ... a good opening lap and maybe slotting infront of massa and rest to rearguard kimi ... :rolleyes:

#2421 hijinx

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 15:07

http://www.yallaf1.c...ce-longer-bans/



Grosjean needs a good start otherwise he could be compromised desperately trying to avoid contacts

I have a very bad feeling his next victim is his teammate

#2422 eronrules

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 15:12

Grosjean can probably take Massa off the start or during the race. There aren't any significantly slower cars ahead of Kimi and no significantly faster cars behind him (bar Button), so ending the race in fifth and sixth is the safest bet based on speed and ignoring external factors.


hopefully you meant overtaking rather than literal sense of the phrase :p

The front tyres go away quicker than the rears in this track. I'm worried that this will impact Kimi a little since he doesn't go so well when the fronts lose grip. So if they try a 1-stopper, it'll probably be with Grosjean as opposed to Kimi.


well according to Gary anderson, the soft tires will initially grain, but if the driver is carefull, it'll come back after 2/3 laps. problem is kimi has a no. of faster cars behind him (Mercs TBH) going to the coanda exhaust, kimi's car is down on power. thus DRS may not work well for kimsta. :(

Kimi hasn't done any race simulations/long runs with his current setup, so there's a question mark on tyre degradation there. Grosjean didn't seem entirely happy with the variations in car behavior in qualy, hopefully he can figure it out overnight.

Overall, I'll be pleased with 5th and 6th. Would need some DNFs and other circumstances for podium (or a successful 1-stopper, which I think is unlikely).


well kimi disagrees :cool:

Q: This is your best grid position since Belgium where you finished on the podium; does that give you cause for optimism heading into tomorrow’s race?

KR: This is probably the best we’ve been in qualifying for a while and the gap to the cars at the front is not too much, so for sure it gives us a better chance of a good result in the race. We don’t know what fuel levels the others were running yesterday, but our long run pace looked pretty strong so hopefully with the speed we’ve shown in qualifying we can score lots of points. There’s no use trying to predict the result because anything can happen, but I think we’ve got a good chance for a decent result so let’s see what we can do…



#2423 eronrules

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 15:14

I have a very bad feeling his next victim is his teammate


:eek: :eek: :eek:
are you trying to give me a heart attack ??? :mad:

#2424 korzeniow

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 15:46

http://www.yallaf1.c...ce-longer-bans/



Grosjean needs a good start otherwise he could be compromised desperately trying to avoid contacts


He put himself under enormous pressure.

I feel sory for him.

How he can keep his head clean? Media are all around drivers even a minute bofore they setp into the car to race on Sunday...

He should play safe and not fight on the opeing laps even if that means losing a plce

#2425 korzeniow

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 16:33

Massa's start from P5 last year: http://videa.hu/vide...77A2Tzpn83xb0FW

He uses a little bit of KERS down to the first corner and the rest on the longest straight and he's 3rd after 3rd corner

Kimi repearts that tomorrow and we have a podium :D

#2426 hijinx

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 16:49

:eek: :eek: :eek:
are you trying to give me a heart attack ??? :mad:

No I'm not... just have a bad feeling is all... and now Groggy has a new warning he might even be more flustered... sigh ):

#2427 eronrules

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 16:54

No I'm not... just have a bad feeling is all... and now Groggy has a new warning he might even be more flustered... sigh ):


well one of the stewards has already warned if he does any thing funny again , he'll have multiple holidays :cat:, also i feel if something happens between two teammates, total may pull the plug on romain, so that will be extra caution for him. :smoking:


then again we've seen him botching things up in suzuka ... :(

#2428 fum3s

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 16:56

I don't get it. What's the joke?

Not just the tax thing - but the cooking utensil is a "colander".

#2429 eronrules

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 17:12

although a lot has been said before, but here's again Friday's press conference for TD's .

james allison explains in detail their position regarding Coanda exhaust development (just to clear things up :wave: )

youtube : sky sport F1 friday press conference TD's

#2430 Mauseri

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 20:33

Yeah, Kimi seemed to be hitting the limiter quite early.

That should be good for early race pace with heavy load! And also late, but overtaking could be difficult at that stage. If Lewis can jump Seb at start, Kimi could maybe finish second? :)

#2431 eronrules

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 20:38

That should be good for early race pace with heavy load! And also late, but overtaking could be difficult at that stage. If Lewis can jump Seb at start, Kimi could maybe finish second? :)


no chance, realistically if the race is ''uneventful'' then 4/5 :smoking:

#2432 g1n

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 20:58

Grosjean sounded terrified when asked about tomorrows start by BBC :)

Edited by g1n, 13 October 2012 - 20:58.


#2433 SpaMaster

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 21:01

If BBC has any common sense, they would leave him alone.

#2434 weareracing

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 21:11

BBC just doing their job and asking the obvious and topical question.
Now it's up to Romain to consistently do HIS JOB and the question will no longer be asked. :wave:

#2435 race addicted

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 21:16

Why haven't Lotus shielded Grosjean from the press as much as they could?

#2436 Kkrans

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 21:18

Neither did i!! Good spot.

Korzeniow "Do not take to copy shop, if do take to copy shop get receipt, it may be tax deductable"

Referencing spygate, and the fact that McLarens fine has been judged to be tax deductible.


+McLaren reference

#2437 cokeb

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 21:22

Am I the only one who has a bit of man-crush on James Allison? He has a certain je ne sais quoi... :blush:

#2438 SpaMaster

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 21:24

No, it is not 'BBC just doing their job'. If someone is in such a bad situation, you either say something good to him or stay away. A TV company is what transmitting robots? They are humans. They should be able to understand such common courtesy. Grosjean is not doing these maliciously. It is a clear technical short-coming. There are other drivers who are much more wrong at head.

#2439 eronrules

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 21:33

Am I the only one who has a bit of man-crush on James Allison? He has a certain je ne sais quoi... :blush:


well of all the TD's, he somehow has a charm, specially verbal charm explaining stuff :smoking:

p.s to clear things out , i'm a dude :cool:

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#2440 weareracing

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 21:47

SpaMaster............
nothing technical about it, it's a very HUMAN failure................ by Romain.
It has affected not only HIS performance but also other drivers he has taken out.
No point pretending, if he can't navigate SAFELY and WITHOUT INCIDENT through the start sequence and the opening laps of an F1 race, then he's going to be questioned.
It's up to Romain to make sure HE AVOIDS the situation.
I'm confident that tomorrow he will do so :up:

#2441 Elloh

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 22:29

Both drivers starts on the clean side, the dirty side has less grip than on other tracks because of fewer support races and the dust around the track. The car is good at the starts so hopefully they can get 1-2 positions directly (and Grosjean to not hitting any car).

Edited by Elloh, 13 October 2012 - 22:41.


#2442 grunge

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 05:55

yup..the dirty side at Korea is notoriously bad...both lotus cars start from the clean side of the track...Also we need to keep in mind that its not just the Race start itself,but there are 2 long runs onto turn 3 and turn 4..

I expect KR to be aggressive at the start..Alonso has comparable pace to us,if KR can take him at the start,i reckon he'll be able to keep him behind in the first stint...

#2443 August

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 07:18

Overtaking seems difficult for Lotuses, just compare Massa's overtake on Lewis to Kimi's and Romain's attempts. Do Lotuses have too much downforce, too short gears, or does Renault engine lack so much power?

Edited by August, 14 October 2012 - 07:19.


#2444 Vesuvius

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 07:28

Overtaking seems difficult for Lotuses, just compare Massa's overtake on Lewis to Kimi's and Romain's attempts. Do Lotuses have too much downforce, too short gears, or does Renault engine lack so much power?


It has been like that all season, Lotus lacks traction out of corners and they reach their top speeds much later than others.

#2445 korzeniow

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 07:45

It is over for Kimi now. Frankly it was over fow some time now

Unless they manage to make DRD to work it is over in WCC too

Sadly

#2446 boldhakka

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 07:55

Pretty solid race, I'm pleased. Expected result, perhaps Romain could have been up one position, but that Force India was pretty quick.

Kimi lost about 10 seconds behind Hamilton, so without that he would have finished ~25 seconds behind the leader, which is about right where I expected from the E20 - about 0.4 seconds/lap slower than Red Bulls over the course of a race.

Kimi pulls away from both McLaren drivers, which is good. Lotus lost a chunk of points to Ferrari again.

We've been out-developed. I told you so.

EDIT: pretty poor move by Hamilton at the start, when he lunged towards the Lotus. But then he has the least to lose, so no surprise.

Edited by boldhakka, 14 October 2012 - 07:58.


#2447 korzeniow

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 07:57

We've been out-developed. I told you so.


Where did you said that?

#2448 boldhakka

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 08:07

Where did you said that?


I had a long discussion with Seanspeed about that a couple of pages back (here is the post). Anyway, it's not important.

Amazingly we are only 29 points behind McLaren in the WCC. It's possible to grab third!!

Edited by boldhakka, 14 October 2012 - 08:10.


#2449 SpaMaster

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 08:17

If I remember it right, the prize money is based on points fraction i.e. the amount of points you collect to the overall points given, not based on the WCC rank. So, in terms of money, finishing second or 4th won't matter much if there is only 5 pt difference. It is just purely a pride thing. But that is worth it!

#2450 korzeniow

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 08:18

If I remember it right, the prize money is based on points fraction i.e. the amount of points you collect to the overall points given, not based on the WCC rank. So, in terms of money, finishing second or 4th won't matter much if there is only 5 pt difference. It is just purely a pride thing. But that is worth it!


First time I hear such a thing but I hope you are right