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Lotus E20 - 2012 - Part II


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#3101 artista

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:27

well Lotus have been here already so they could predict time the most accuretly.

Com'on! don't take it away from them :) , it's not that they tested with the same car, same tyres and so on. And they had to predict what Vettel would do, not what their cars would do.
Actually, if I recall it correctly, last year in India, most teams made the same mistake: they expected the circuit to be slower.

Best thing is that HRT prediction is better than Ferrari's and Williams :D

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#3102 OSX

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:31

Great quali from the team. Kimi has now officially lost qualibattle for Grosjean.

Well, considering that Kimi spent two years rallying while Romain returned to F1 from GP2, where he drove a full season on Pirelli's F1 tyres, it's no wonder really.

#3103 Shiroo

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:35

smn with top speeds?

#3104 BetaVersion

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:36

I have to praise Lotus, they really were slow playing all weekend :up:

I was completely wrong as I expected them to even struggle to get to Q3(well, Kimi did struggle just passing in 10th :p )

#3105 skywing

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:36

smn with top speeds?

http://www.formula1....speed_trap.html

#3106 korzeniow

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:41

http://www.formula1....speed_trap.html


Mark Webber last! With good start we might be fighting for podium tomorrow :)

#3107 race addicted

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:43

Hah! where the heck this came from? 4th and 5th (9th and 4th then)/. I'm amazed sometimes HOW Lotus finds time out of nowhjere. At Friday everyone here is like (WE ARE BAD) then boom 4th and 5th. Beauty job guys.


The result is a bit better than expected but I've got to say I'm hugely surprised how relatively informed forumers (you'd think) didn't see that Lotus were just fine this weeekend.

Fourth on the grid is very nice, and I believe Räikkönen will be able to stay with Vet-Ham-Web tomorrow.

#3108 skywing

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:43

Mark Webber last! With good start we might be fighting for podium tomorrow :)

The speed differences are quite small so passing shouldn't be a problem unless they somehow get stuck on a DRS-train.

#3109 Shiroo

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:47

Webber under investigation for missing weight check! we might start from p3 then and get Hamilton due to soap side of track

#3110 korzeniow

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 20:01

Webber under investigation for missing weight check! we might start from p3 then and get Hamilton due to soap side of track


I really convinced Webber will be penalized :)

#3111 F1ultimate

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 21:21

I really convinced Webber will be penalized :)


His penalty will be to eat a 800 gram Texas steak right before being allowed out on track tomorrow:

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#3112 Baddoer

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 21:22

Didn't expected that, car looked absolutely horrible in FP3. I assume increasing temperatures played in Lotus hands.

#3113 subete

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 21:46

Mark Webber given reprimand over weighbridge incident
No further action taken against Michael Schumacher for moment with Fernando Alonso in Q1

#3114 korzeniow

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 11:55

There is big possibility of Kimi being stuck behind Schumacher :(

#3115 Zava

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 12:02

There is big possibility of Kimi being stuck behind Schumacher :(

I have hope in getting past on the 1st lap, in q1-q2-q3 lotus was the only team that didn't need to do an extra preparation lap, but could go fast right after the outlap. hopefully this will translate to a great first lap as he'll get the temperatures faster than the others. :)

#3116 grunge

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 12:25

The drivers comments after Quali

KR

I think it's been very difficult to get the car working at some races where it's been difficult to get the tyres working," said Raikkonen.

"I really expected a much more difficult qualifying, but luckily it warmed up a bit and we got the tyres working a bit better.

"It's still not 100 per cent what we want, but it's getting there, so this is pretty good after how difficult it's been."

The Finn admitted that Grosjean's penalty was a mixed blessing for him, as it would elevate his car onto the dirty side of the grid in fourth.

"I'd probably rather take fifth place but if we can make a good start hopefully we won't lose too many places," Raikkonen said.


RG

"The guys did an awesome job to change the gearbox between P3 and qualifying. It was really tight," he said.

"So it's good to be able to do that - miss half of P3, then jump in and just go for it.

"I think we did quite well today. It's good to be back at the front in qualy."


#3117 grunge

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 12:30

Some comments from drivers on starting from the dirty side at Austin GP.

Massa

"I think it will be the biggest difference you ever saw at a start," said Massa.

"It will be massive. This morning I did the start on the left, and I was slower than in the wet."


Hamilton

Speaking about a practice start he did from the dirty side of the grid on Saturday morning, Hamilton said: "It wasn't very good. It was really poor; I barely went anywhere when I let the clutch out.

"That is why I am saying they need to clean the inside because it is just as slippery as when we started driving yesterday.

"While the track is bedding-in now and getting much, much better, that part is untouched, so it is going to be very much the same as the pitlane, which has no grip at all.

"I don't know what they have got to do. But at least clean it."




#3118 Raikkonen94

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 13:44

Some comments from drivers on starting from the dirty side at Austin GP.

Massa

"I think it will be the biggest difference you ever saw at a start," said Massa.

"It will be massive. This morning I did the start on the left, and I was slower than in the wet."


Hamilton

Speaking about a practice start he did from the dirty side of the grid on Saturday morning, Hamilton said: "It wasn't very good. It was really poor; I barely went anywhere when I let the clutch out.

"That is why I am saying they need to clean the inside because it is just as slippery as when we started driving yesterday.

"While the track is bedding-in now and getting much, much better, that part is untouched, so it is going to be very much the same as the pitlane, which has no grip at all.

"I don't know what they have got to do. But at least clean it."


Pff, I'm really expecting a bad start after hearing all this. It actually is really bad that starting on the even sides gives so much disadvantage, now you'd rather start 3th than 2nd. Bit strange if you ask me.


#3119 Torsion

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 13:52

Pff, I'm really expecting a bad start after hearing all this. It actually is really bad that starting on the even sides gives so much disadvantage, now you'd rather start 3th than 2nd. Bit strange if you ask me.


I think JB had mentioned that he did a practice start from the clean side which wasn't any good either. So it might not be that bad.



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#3120 Miggeex

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 14:03

We'll see it already in the beginning of the formation lap if there's lot of wheelspin. Hopefully it won't be that bad. The teams just must clean up the grid slot REALLY well :D

#3121 Jovanotti

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 14:08

Come on guys, last race many here (and even Kimi himself) were pessimistic about starting on the dirty side after moving up from 5th to 4th, and look what happened. I reckon it will probably be worse here, but with support races going on and slow starting Webber in front, there's no need to panic imo.

And to quote JB:

"I am the only car who has done a start on the clean side of the grid and that wasn't good either. There is just such low grip".

"On the straights we are not putting rubber down. We might be cleaning the circuit but there is no rubber down, so it is very, very slippery."

"I don't think one side of the grid is going to have a better start than the other. The dirty side has had a lot of rubber put down from all the practice starts that were done this morning."



#3122 SpaMaster

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 14:40

Besides the even number side is not uncleaned for ever. They do clean the tracks these days, particularly the start-finish. It was already cleaned on Friday. Button is right that the odd number side is still slippery and does not really any rubber laid down.

#3123 Vesuvius

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 14:44

Come on guys, last race many here (and even Kimi himself) were pessimistic about starting on the dirty side after moving up from 5th to 4th, and look what happened. I reckon it will probably be worse here, but with support races going on and slow starting Webber in front, there's no need to panic imo.

And to quote JB:


Not true, saw Maldonado and others doing starts from the clean side and they got much better starts than Lewis from the dirty side. So it doesnt look good, Massa said it's worse then start on wet conditions.

#3124 Alburaq

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 16:07

I have to praise Lotus, they really were slow playing all weekend :up:

I was completely wrong as I expected them to even struggle to get to Q3(well, Kimi did struggle just passing in 10th :p )


They ''struggled" in almost every practice session this season, even in Melbourne, Bahrain, Canada, Valencia etc where they ended up on the podium. The E20 rarely reached the top ten in FP 1 and 2 and were often 'nowhere' in FP3... Obviously you can't call that struggling, it's normal. that's the way they and the E20/Pirelli work. So we should stop worrying and whining about friday and saturday morning results.

Edited by Alburaq, 18 November 2012 - 16:08.


#3125 SpaMaster

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 16:10

Not true, saw Maldonado and others doing starts from the clean side and they got much better starts than Lewis from the dirty side. So it doesnt look good, Massa said it's worse then start on wet conditions.

Did they start from the same row? Because, first of all, it is difficult to compare starts made at different times, even if it is only a fraction of a second. Next, next is the downhill changing to steep uphill. Those who start closer to the uphill may have relatively more inertia on the uphill climb. I would be surprised if those who start on the clean side get more than one car of the start if at all.

#3126 Vesuvius

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 16:45

Andrew Benson ‏@andrewbensonf1
Engineers estimate those on dirty side of grid (even numbers) will lose at least two positions at the start

Kimi could drop even back of Alonso if he gts the clean side now that they are thinking of changing Felipe's gearbox.

#3127 grunge

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 17:10

Come on guys, last race many here (and even Kimi himself) were pessimistic about starting on the dirty side after moving up from 5th to 4th, and look what happened. I reckon it will probably be worse here, but with support races going on and slow starting Webber in front, there's no need to panic imo.

And to quote JB:

Inspite of what JB said, the dirty is no where near as rubbered down as the clean sid...the latter has far more grip from the hundreds of laps that have been put down with cars taking the racing line over and over and over..the dirty side only has the rubber from the cars that practiced starts from the dirty side.

If we get stuck behind MS again after the race start,im going to go nuts.

#3128 F.M.

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 17:23

Inspite of what JB said, the dirty is no where near as rubbered down as the clean sid...the latter has far more grip from the hundreds of laps that have been put down with cars taking the racing line over and over and over..the dirty side only has the rubber from the cars that practiced starts from the dirty side.

If we get stuck behind MS again after the race start,im going to go nuts.

You know that rubber is layed down primarily by braking and accelerating, and not by driving over it. Especially on a surface where the tires experience zero degradation?
There is virtually no rubber on the clean side, the only thing is that the cars cleaned that part of the track by driving over it. If they clean the dirty side as well, combined with the rubber from practice starts, the difference could be non-existent

#3129 denthierry

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 17:45

You know that rubber is layed down primarily by braking and accelerating, and not by driving over it. Especially on a surface where the tires experience zero degradation?
There is virtually no rubber on the clean side, the only thing is that the cars cleaned that part of the track by driving over it. If they clean the dirty side as well, combined with the rubber from practice starts, the difference could be non-existent


I hear you but one can't ignore all the fuss about it this time, particularly from the drivers.
I mean it's not like suddenly they all conspired to express their 'dirty-side' concern at the US GP.

I'm ready for Kimi losing two positions.
And quite some trouble in the first corner from inexperienced and frustrated dirty-side-starters trying to make up in that very first corner.

If Kimi 'survives' this, even with two positions lost, i'm sure we're in for a good race with team and driver making the best out of conditions presented to them. That's how he's done all year really, hasn't he?

Basically, with HAM doing pretty well lately, all i want is for Kimi to maximise his chances to secure his 3rd place in the WDC by the end of the season.
And honestly, sorry for going off topic, but with the title being out of reach anyways, i must admit my focus has shifted to the VET-ALO battle lately and am fiercely supporting for VETs 3rd crown. And i'd rather see that happen today than in Brasil to be honest.

EDIT: so it's happened, Massa moved out of Alonso's way.... I expect SHU and ALO to pass Kimi then, sorry,... :well:

Edited by denthierry, 18 November 2012 - 17:52.


#3130 grunge

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 18:55

You know that rubber is layed down primarily by braking and accelerating, and not by driving over it. Especially on a surface where the tires experience zero degradation?
There is virtually no rubber on the clean side, the only thing is that the cars cleaned that part of the track by driving over it. If they clean the dirty side as well, combined with the rubber from practice starts, the difference could be non-existent

Not true at all...while braking and wheel spin do provide most of the rubber on the track,that is more so in the braking zones..i-e corner entry and exits...the grip on the rest of the track eg on the straights is through the car driving at 300 km/hr and with that truckload of downforce pushing down on the track through the tires..the track is actually getting more and more grip as the day passes and more laps are put down on it.

#3131 F.M.

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 18:58

Not true at all...while braking and wheel spin do provide most of the rubber on the track,that is more so in the braking zones..i-e corner entry and exits...the grip on the rest of the track eg on the straights is through the car driving at 300 km/hr and with that truckload of downforce pushing down on the track through the tires..the track is actually getting more and more grip as the day passes and more laps are put down on it.

Yeah, that's is how the straights are rubbered in, but this effect is far, far less than in the braking/acceleration zones and the corners.
Especially here since there is virtually no degradation of the tires, so no rubber is layed down. So the difference is (mainly) from the track being cleaned on that side.

Edited by F.M., 18 November 2012 - 18:59.


#3132 denthierry

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 18:59

Yeah, that's is how the straights are rubbered in, but this effect is far, far less than in the braking/acceleration zones and the corners.
Especially here since there is virtually no degradation of the tires, so no rubber is layed down. So the difference is (mainly) from the track being cleaned on that side.


Rubber or not... the story of my life. :rolleyes:

#3133 grunge

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 19:08

If we get stuck behind MS again after the race start,im going to go nuts.

:mad:

#3134 Shiroo

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 19:12

we have better pace than everybody bar Vettel and Ham

#3135 grunge

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 19:13

Hulkenberg is holding back RG..once he gets past..Alonso's next

#3136 grunge

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 19:16

Oh Dear..Grosjean spins

#3137 Vesuvius

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 19:17

Oh Dear..Grosjean spins


Sadly it was expected.

#3138 Jovanotti

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 19:23

Bad top speed again.

#3139 grunge

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 19:26

yahhhh Kimi..brilliant pass

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#3140 grunge

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 19:32

1,47,3..thats a killer from KR ..takes 1.6 out of Alonso

#3141 Jovanotti

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 19:37

Grosjean is costing them 3rd in the WCC. Bloody amateur.

#3142 Shiroo

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 19:38

yep. Lotus is badass car, they should be tbh 2nd

#3143 grunge

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 19:48

Lotus mess up Rai's stops..shouldve easily passed Alonso

#3144 grunge

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 20:28

6th and 7th...Pretty disappointing stint on the harder compound....no pace

#3145 Topsu

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 20:30

It's all about the horrible top speed.

#3146 Shiroo

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 20:31

no pace on hards. Pirelli cost us podium or even a win here (Medium pace was brilliant, after taking care of Hulk he was faster than even Ham and Vet for 3-4 laps)
There is no way to warm up these tyres (Ferrari has similar problems)

#3147 Vesuvius

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 20:33

no pace on hards. Pirelli cost us podium or even a win here (Medium pace was brilliant, after taking care of Hulk he was faster than even Ham and Vet for 3-4 laps)
There is no way to warm up these tyres (Ferrari has similar problems)


Massa and Grosjean didn't have same problems as Kimi and Fernando has had.

#3148 Shiroo

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 20:35

maybe different driving style or a bit different settings. dunno :)

anyway when is first winter test? and where? Barcelona or Jerez? coz need to visit it, I wanna see by my own eyes how new Lotus will handle :p

#3149 Vesuvius

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 20:37

maybe different driving style or a bit different settings. dunno :)

anyway when is first winter test? and where? Barcelona or Jerez? coz need to visit it, I wanna see by my own eyes how new Lotus will handle :p


It's driving style as Kimi said yesterday that he has more tyre heating problems normally and at austin thy have been even worse.

#3150 Shiroo

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 20:38

coz Pirelli went full retard. They could bring super soft and soft here easly.
btw Kimiw armed up the tyres (after like 15 laps?)

Edited by Shiroo, 18 November 2012 - 20:38.