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Lotus E20 - 2012 - Part II


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#3151 cokeb

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 20:51

4th place in WCC assured.

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#3152 MrMontecarlo

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 21:54

Are Lotus still suffering from power loss because of the Coanda exhaust or have they solved it?

#3153 Trust

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 22:01

Are Lotus still suffering from power loss because of the Coanda exhaust or have they solved it?

They've brought half of the power loss, I think.

#3154 Shiroo

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 22:14

Are Lotus still suffering from power loss because of the Coanda exhaust or have they solved it?

it is not they will be any faster. look at RBR, they have similar problem with power and top speed (they are even more miserable than we are). if they are not leading they cant overtake as well (similar to lotus). if we want better top speed /acc then take Mercedes engine xD

#3155 artista

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 22:17

maybe different driving style or a bit different settings. dunno :)

anyway when is first winter test? and where? Barcelona or Jerez? coz need to visit it, I wanna see by my own eyes how new Lotus will handle :p

Jerez, from 5th to 8th February.

#3156 artista

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 22:21

Lotus mess up Rai's stops..shouldve easily passed Alonso

At the end, it was lucky in the bad luck. Today was probably the best day to have the worst pit-stop of the year, in any other races, it would have cost him a few places at the end of the race.

#3157 Skinnyguy

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 22:22

Down to Earth again. Distant 4th team today. As good as anyone on medium tyre, poor - especially in Kimi´s hands- on the hard. Getting anyone of the guys in the 3 big teams would be impossible. The gap made on them on a theoretical stint in clear air wasn´t enough to make up for the deficit on the hard tyre stint.

Grosjean could have been a different story if he didn´t mess up as usual.

#3158 halifaxf1fan

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 00:49

It's driving style as Kimi said yesterday that he has more tyre heating problems normally and at austin thy have been even worse.



I was optimistic that the race in Brazil would give the Lotus an opportunity to enjoy a hot race but the weather forecast for next Sunday is for 68C and 60%chance for showers!

http://www.weather.c...o BRXX0232:1:BR

#3159 race addicted

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 14:13

...what happened with announcing that new sponsor?

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#3160 Vesuvius

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 14:21

...what happened with announcing that new sponsor?

I guess it was just one of those rumoirs again, there was similar around bahrain gp that they would have huge sponsor from USA but it never happened. Brazil is still america so they could announce something there but I would find it very odd if they would announce big sponsors for the last race of the season...unless it will be new title sponsor or owner.

#3161 Seanspeed

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 14:54

Are Lotus still suffering from power loss because of the Coanda exhaust or have they solved it?

There's always going to be power loss. Its all about minimizing that loss and they talked in Abu Dhabi about gaining a fair chunk of it back already. I wouldn't think there's too much more room for improvement in that area. Maybe a couple horsepower or something.

Anyways, did Kimi have a problem? He was really flying early on and then fell off badly in the 2nd half of the race. First thought was the tires but Grosjean seemed fine on them. Great racecraft from him, though. And Grosjean impressed despite his spin.

#3162 Zava

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 14:58

There's always going to be power loss. Its all about minimizing that loss and they talked in Abu Dhabi about gaining a fair chunk of it back already. I wouldn't think there's too much more room for improvement in that area. Maybe a couple horsepower or something.

Anyways, did Kimi have a problem? He was really flying early on and then fell off badly in the 2nd half of the race. First thought was the tires but Grosjean seemed fine on them. Great racecraft from him, though. And Grosjean impressed despite his spin.

I read somewhere that he said as soon as the sun hid behind the clouds, his tyres stopped working. the sun came out again, bamm, 1 tenth off of the FL on the last lap. :drunk:
if it wasn't Kimi "no bullshit" Raikkönen saying this, I wouldn't believe it though.

#3163 Seanspeed

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 15:11

I read somewhere that he said as soon as the sun hid behind the clouds, his tyres stopped working. the sun came out again, bamm, 1 tenth off of the FL on the last lap. :drunk:
if it wasn't Kimi "no bullshit" Raikkönen saying this, I wouldn't believe it though.

That'd be believable either way, I think. We've seen what track condition changes can do to things this year and this track.

#3164 korzeniow

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 15:27

Car had good top speed this weekend. Just look how Button couldn't overtake both Lotus drivers in the DRS zone and also Massa couldn't overtake Kimi

#3165 Seanspeed

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 15:31

Car had good top speed this weekend. Just look how Button couldn't overtake both Lotus drivers in the DRS zone and also Massa couldn't overtake Kimi

Not sure if their top speed was 'good', but it wasn't terrible definitely.

http://184.106.145.7.....peed Trap.pdf

#3166 Masahiro

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 18:05

In this article, on a french website, they say that the new sponsor might be Honeywell Group. Lotus are against Williams and McLaren for this contract.


Having announced at the beginning of the year the arrival of the group Unilever against 10 million euro annual, the credibility of Lotus F1 Team is assured(insured) from now on by Kimi Raikkonen and the season 2012. To the point that the English team is in competition(competitors) to seduce the Honeywell Group company against William and McLaren. The American company(society), operating in the aeronautics, the chemistry, the systems of transport, automation and the technology of control realizes a figure of 30 billion euro affair(business) a year approximately. The discussions with this company(society) hide a main partnership at the level of 30 million euro approximately.


http://www.sportune....or-a-30me-81129

Sorry for the translation.

#3167 artista

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 18:22

Thanks Masahiro.

Yep, Honeywell is also the name Motorsport-Total has been naming the last couple of weeks.
Let's wait and see.

#3168 race addicted

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 19:15

Very interesting! Thanks, Masahiro!
Three teams working to persuade them! I guess the lure of McLaren might be bigger, but Williams and Lotus have better spots (on the car) available I think.

#3169 Alburaq

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 15:33

In which lap did Grosjean pass Kimi and Schumacher :confused:

About top speed;
USA GP FP3 top speed (I'll only keep Lotus's 'direct' opponents)

Pos No Driver Time of Day Speed
5 11 Paul di Resta 9:33:53 318.6
6 6 Felipe Massa 9:52:27 318.4
8 12 Nico Hulkenberg 9:31:28 318.3
11 5 Fernando Alonso 9:54:18 316.9
13 10 Romain Grosjean 9:29:50 315.1
14 9 Kimi Räikkönen 9:37:08 315.1

15 3 Jenson Button 9:31:47 314.5
16 4 Lewis Hamilton 9:27:20 314.4
23 1 Sebastian Vettel 9:33:59 308.5
24 2 Mark Webber 9:34:09 307.9

Edit: same for qualifying; only the Ferrari were faster, by 4 km/h

That's not bad at all, especially when you compare it to Korea and India where the new exhausts first came and weren't optimised for power yet...
Lotus's top speed has allways been very good this season, even in Monza where at least one E20 topped each of the sessions in term of top speed. Traction/mechanical and aero grip weres the main problems for Lotus there. Enstone's cars lack traction since 2011...

Edited by Alburaq, 20 November 2012 - 15:58.


#3170 quidam

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 18:01

Grosjean overtake Kimi and Schumacher lap 2 :

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#3171 Alburaq

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 18:44

Indeed. merci

#3172 subete

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 20:49

I wonder how is the finance situation of the team...I'm VERY VERY worried if KIMI would leave this team..

#3173 artista

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 20:59

I wonder how is the finance situation of the team...I'm VERY VERY worried if KIMI would leave this team..

Earlier today, Oskari Saari tweeted he had asked Steve Roberson about what AMuS had published regarding Lotus' difficulties and Räikkönen not getting his money and that the answer had been 'no comment'. Not the best way to shut up a rumour.

PS. Can't post the link to the tweet, I'm in the ****** iPad at the moment. I'm sure there is a way to copy and paste the address to the damn tweet, but I have not discovered it yet :blush:

#3174 Vesuvius

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 21:00

I wonder how is the finance situation of the team...I'm VERY VERY worried if KIMI would leave this team..


Kimi won't go anywhere, he will drive for Lotus 2013. There are teams that are in much worse situation than Lotus (williams,force india, toro rosso,caterham, hrt and marussia). Lotus also has next years budget already so there wont be problems in there either, they will get new sponsors and paychecks will be paid, they will also got lots of money from 4th position in WCC.

#3175 Vesuvius

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 21:09

Earlier today, Oskari Saari tweeted he had asked Steve Roberson about what AMuS had published regarding Lotus' difficulties and Räikkönen not getting his money and that the answer had been 'no comment'. Not the best way to shut up a rumour.

PS. Can't post the link to the tweet, I'm in the ****** iPad at the moment. I'm sure there is a way to copy and paste the address to the damn tweet, but I have not discovered it yet :blush:


That's true and Riku Kuvaja's answer was same...the money issues for sure are true but still Kimi will stay and he will get his money eventually one way or another.

#3176 Shiroo

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 22:28

He wouldn't sign for next year if he wouldn't believe in the team.
I'm Lotus supporter, no matter who will drive for them I'll supportem them in good and in bad.
Tho I hope that Lotus will keep it up on Raikkonen as he is one of best drivers (top 4) and Lotus as title contender need to have great driver.
Hopefully Lopez will find some superb sponsors soon

#3177 wrcva

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 22:53

Do we know if there were any "possible future sponsorship" type events or "special team guests" in Texas? (I was not paying attention if Lopez was even in the states)

#3178 telstar

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 03:54

Translated by Nicole

The situation in Lotus is weakening. A large part of Kimi’s salaries are not paid and engineers from the team are going to McLaren.

Despite their success Lotus-team’s finance is in the toilet and Räikkönen is waiting for his salaries to be paid. Reportedly the team would need 70 million euros in order to continue like normally next year.


According to Auto Motor und Sport several engineers from Lotus have already applied for a new job in McLaren and a large amount of Räikkönen’s salary is still unpaid.

Räikkönen became more expensive to the team than expected, because his salary is very largely based upon bonuses for WC-points. In Lotus-camp they estimated before the season that Räikkönen will score one hundred points at the most. At the moment he has already scored 206 points.

If Räikkönen doesn’t get all his money after the season, then he might well leave Lotus. Because of the situation with the salary, Räikkönen’s camp has just in case investigated the situation in Force India. There is a long line there. Over ten drivers are trying to become Paul di Resta’s new teammate.

The CEO Gerard Lopez admits that the situation is difficult in the whole F1-serie at the moment.

- They have made many things wrong in F1 over the last years. It’s incredibly difficult to sell our sport, Lopez complained to German Sport Auto -magazine.

Janne Aittoniemi

http://www.iltasanom...8517834198.html

:| damn, fingers crossed it is not true

#3179 Torsion

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 07:11

I know this might not be fair on Romain, but may be the team should consider singing a driver like Maldanado to partner Kimi, as he will bring in significant funding with him.



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#3180 Torsion

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 07:12

Do we know if there were any "possible future sponsorship" type events or "special team guests" in Texas? (I was not paying attention if Lopez was even in the states)


I haven't seen him for a while now at a GP.



#3181 korzeniow

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 07:57

I'll wait till some serious media report about Lotus financial problems before starting to worry.

#3182 spinster

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 08:27

I'll wait till some serious media report about Lotus financial problems before starting to worry.


it was the same last year...and the year before...

Lotus needs indead some major sponsorship, so let's hope they can have 2 big new sponsors... Honeywell and Coca cola through Burn would be great...

Btw Total is paying 30 million for having grosjean on board...doubt that maldo bring more

#3183 Vesuvius

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 08:36

it was the same last year...and the year before...

Lotus needs indead some major sponsorship, so let's hope they can have 2 big new sponsors... Honeywell and Coca cola through Burn would be great...

Btw Total is paying 30 million for having grosjean on board...doubt that maldo bring more


Hopefully they will get new sponsors...there has been rumours for long time about big sponsor coming but nothing has happened.

Maldonado's sponsor PVDSA paid 46,5 million dollars for 2012 Williams seat. But Maldonado leaving Williams is extremely unlikely.

#3184 spinster

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 08:44

Hopefully they will get new sponsors...there has been rumours for long time about big sponsor coming but nothing has happened.

Maldonado's sponsor PVDSA paid 46,5 million dollars for 2012 Williams seat. But Maldonado leaving Williams is extremely unlikely.


might be Kimi going to Williams IF he can leave for one year?

I think he'll end up in RBR to close his career...or maybe if perez don't get his act together he can join mclaren during the 2013 year... I'm quite sure Kimi has a release clause in case he isn't paid the way he should...

But I do hope that he stay and Lotus can add some major sponsorship

#3185 korzeniow

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 08:47

might be Kimi going to Williams IF he can leave for one year?

I think he'll end up in RBR to close his career...or maybe if perez don't get his act together he can join mclaren during the 2013 year... I'm quite sure Kimi has a release clause in case he isn't paid the way he should...

But I do hope that he stay and Lotus can add some major sponsorship


Come on, Kimi doesn't have anywhere to go. Those rumours of Kimi and Force India are laughable :wave:

#3186 grunge

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 08:57

Though Robertson couldve rubbished the unpaid salary rumors,he didnt.thats a little odd...do we have something on this by TS,Wolfie?

Still not too worried about the rumors to be honest..this happens every year.they wouldnt have spent that much money on the CFD,Windtunnel had they been expecting serious financial trouble.


#3187 Vesuvius

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 09:03

Come on, Kimi doesn't have anywhere to go. Those rumours of Kimi and Force India are laughable :wave:


Kimi has a way to go...and it's home.he doesn't need F1.

#3188 Vesuvius

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 09:09

Though Robertson couldve rubbished the unpaid salary rumors,he didnt.thats a little odd...do we have something on this by TS,Wolfie?

Still not too worried about the rumors to be honest..this happens every year.they wouldnt have spent that much money on the CFD,Windtunnel had they been expecting serious financial trouble.


Nothing on TS sadly.

Maybe and most likely Robertson cant comment on the matter and like I have told the rumour must be true to some extent as the team hasn't denied it in anyway...when asked about money troubles or possible buyers they say they are looking for investors but team isn't not for sell, so they need money but dont want to give up from the team.

Also Kimi owned his victory for the team in his own words " because the team needs it and it's good for the team thinking about next year" the words tell a lot, there is money issues inside the team but I doubt they are not as bad as have been written.

#3189 spinster

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 09:10

might be Kimi going to Williams IF he can leave for one year?

I think he'll end up in RBR to close his career...or maybe if perez don't get his act together he can join mclaren during the 2013 year... I'm quite sure Kimi has a release clause in case he isn't paid the way he should...

But I do hope that he stay and Lotus can add some major sponsorship


I didn't say he has to go somewhere, but it's waste of his talent to stay in a team who doesn't have the money to run a proper team...

Although I like lotus a lot, they need to get their act together, they have the chance now with Kimi to atrect major sponsorship!

#3190 Vesuvius

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 09:13

might be Kimi going to Williams IF he can leave for one year?

I think he'll end up in RBR to close his career...or maybe if perez don't get his act together he can join mclaren during the 2013 year... I'm quite sure Kimi has a release clause in case he isn't paid the way he should...

But I do hope that he stay and Lotus can add some major sponsorship


Williams and Kimi didn't workout so I doubt it would now either...althought Frank would want him without a doubt.

Maybe or maybe not...the RBR deal could have already happened but it hasn't, I wonder why? Is RBR maybe taking too much away from Kimi's free time...more sponsors,can't do rally or any other kind of sport that could risk your career. McLaren deal didn't happend 2009 and idn't happend this year either when they asked for Kimi, so I think he won't go there.

Edited by Vesuvius, 22 November 2012 - 09:14.


#3191 Vesuvius

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 09:16

I didn't say he has to go somewhere, but it's waste of his talent to stay in a team who doesn't have the money to run a proper team...

Although I like lotus a lot, they need to get their act together, they have the chance now with Kimi to atrect major sponsorship!


They are doing decent job so far I would say...


Formula 1 is expensive bussiness, even way too expensive. All the teams apart from Ferrari,Red Bull,Mercedes and McLaren are in money trouble.

#3192 spinster

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 09:18

Williams and Kimi didn't workout so I doubt it would now either...althought Frank would want him without a doubt.

Maybe or maybe not...the RBR deal could have already happened but it hasn't, I wonder why? Is RBR maybe taking too much away from Kimi's free time...more sponsors,can't do rally or any other kind of sport that could risk your career. McLaren deal didn't happend 2009 and idn't happend this year either when they asked for Kimi, so I think he won't go there.


RBR doesn't ask too much bcs they sponsor theirself... I think after 2012 no one doubt Kimi's commitment anymore, that might be the reason for the fact the RBR deal didn't happen...

Mclaren, I don't see him there too except if Perez don't get his driving together and button neither and they need Kimi... that gives Kimi the opportunity to ask for things of freedom in his contract

#3193 korzeniow

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 09:19

Kimi has a way to go...and it's home.he doesn't need F1.


Yeah, but I obviously was talking about F1

#3194 spinster

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 09:20

They are doing decent job so far I would say...


Formula 1 is expensive bussiness, even way too expensive. All the teams apart from Ferrari,Red Bull,Mercedes and McLaren are in money trouble.


that's true but it is what it is... even with a budget cap of 250 million dollar, Lotus doesn't have that!

#3195 Torsion

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 09:21

it was the same last year...and the year before...

Lotus needs indead some major sponsorship, so let's hope they can have 2 big new sponsors... Honeywell and Coca cola through Burn would be great...

Btw Total is paying 30 million for having grosjean on board...doubt that maldo bring more


I agree that Grosjean is their preferred driver, but wasn't Total sponsoring Lotus even last year?




#3196 Viryfan

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 09:24

I agree that Grosjean is their preferred driver, but wasn't Total sponsoring Lotus even last year?


Total decided to introduce a French driver clause in their contract for 2012.

So Lotus must have a french driver.

Lotus is no longer a Renault works team, now it's Red Bull.

#3197 Vesuvius

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 09:25

that's true but it is what it is... even with a budget cap of 250 million dollar, Lotus doesn't have that!


True but only three teams have it.Lotus is a lot behind there but they were already in their best Renault years and still did well.

#3198 spinster

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 09:25

I agree that Grosjean is their preferred driver, but wasn't Total sponsoring Lotus even last year?


yes but now they sponsor X3

#3199 spinster

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 09:26

True but only three teams have it.Lotus is a lot behind there but they were already in their best Renault years and still did well.


I don't say they need that much but a lot more than today...

I think Lotus has a clever team of engineers and doing very well with their resources

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#3200 Vesuvius

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 09:27

Total decided to introduce a French driver clause in their contract for 2012.

So Lotus must have a french driver.

Lotus is no longer a Renault works team, now it's Red Bull.


Not so sure about that, they sponsor Red Bull as well but they don't have french drivers only engines :) and judging by the comments from Lotus, they don't need french driver.