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#1 rd500

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 13:44

i love it, its like a fairytale that never ends! the lost decade? it seems they havent even started yet.
from strength to strength indeed, no wonder the world champion wants out

a bit of light readind from motomatters

It seems ironic - ironic at best, downright insane at worst - that at the 7th Grand Prix of the first season after a major capacity change in MotoGP, the Grand Prix Commission will be deciding on another major change in MotoGP regulations. With just one third of the races run of one season after such a change, why are the GP Commission even contemplating more changes?

The reason is simple: money, or rather the lack of it. A raft of technical rule changes introduced at the behest of the manufacturers has left the series struggling to fill the grid with the prototypes being built by the few manufacturers still racing, the others forced out either by a lack of success or the high costs of racing, or more usually a combination of both. The technical regulations drawn up by the MSMA have prevented new manufacturers from entering: even BMW, probably the biggest spenders in the World Superbike series, are saying that they cannot afford to go racing in MotoGP under the current rules, with BMW's head of motorcycle racing Bernhard Gobmeier pointing the finger of blame at Honda and Yamaha for making the series unsustainably expensive.

With costs too high, Dorna, the FIM and IRTA are casting around for a set of rules to make the racing more financially sustainable. That was not achievable with the rules that MotoGP had prior to 2012, and this year's rule package is only a little better. The combination of high horsepower, high revs and limited fuel means that millions are being poured into the development of electronics to keep the bikes rideable and make the fuel last. MotoGP needs cheaper racing, but, as they say, you can't get there from here.

And so on Thursday*, the Grand Prix Commission will meet to discuss a set of rules aimed at cutting costs for the long term. Though the MSMA has lost its monopoly over the technical regulations after the previous contract lapsed at the end of last year, the manufacturers still have an important say in defining the rules of the series. And that's where it all gets very difficult.

For the MSMA and the other parties at the table have conflicting interests, and finding a compromise which will allow everyone to cut costs while retaining a rationale for racing is a very delicate balance. The manufacturers justify their participation in MotoGP on two grounds: as a marketing exercise and as a platform for research and development, gathering data which will be useful in developing their roadgoing machinery. For the marketing argument to carry weight when presented to company boards at the annual budget meeting, the manufacturers have to be in with a chance of winning, both races and titles. Having large numbers of manufacturers vying for wins makes this goal harder to achieve and therefore harder to sell this argument to executives financing race departments.

The R&D argument is an easier sell, but requires that electronics, especially, be completely unrestricted, as this is the area which has the most direct application for manufacturers. Ride-by-wire, traction control, fuel economy, engine response at part throttle; all these are technologies that make their way quickly from race bike to road bike. The problem is that the race track is not the only place factories can do R&D; arguably, laboratory testing, computer simulation and test track testing is far, far cheaper than racing, so if a factory decides that their return on investment from racing is not enough, they can simply walk away, as Suzuki and Kawasaki have already proved.

The R&D argument carries no weight with Dorna and IRTA. The teams are there to race, and Dorna is there to sell the racing spectacle to TV companies and sponsors around the world. If Honda, Yamaha and Ducati dominate racing and ramp up costs, driving out other manufacturers, and keeping satellite teams in their place by carefully controlling the level of performance of the satellite machinery, then the spectacle suffers, as was the case towards the end of the 800 era. Dorna does not have an attractive product to sell, and sponsors are only interested in being associated with the winners - those very same factory teams. The technology should only serve to enhance the spectacle, with just enough being admitted to retain the sheen of prestige bestowed by the Grand Prix tag. What Dorna wants is great racing, and what the teams want is sufficient income to allow them to race, or else a massive cut in the costs of racing, to allow them to continue.

The proposals include:

A rev limit, set at either 14,500 or 15,000 RPM. Dorna want the lower of the two limits, but would settle for 15,000 RPM, while the factories are grudgingly willing to accept the higher of those two numbers. Ducati is the exception here: the Borgo Panigale factory have always based their MotoGP race machines around the concept of maximizing power output by revving hard, and exploiting the advantage that desmosdromic valve systems offer in terms of valve timing and valve control.

A spec ECU. This is a massive stumbling block for the factories, and one of Dorna's main demands. Dorna believes that a spec ECU would allow them to manage the spectacle more effectively, limiting electronic control directly, instead of through other channels. They also believe that a spec ECU would be a major step forward in limiting costs, with the importance of software engineers diminished. The factories argue that this is where most of their R&D gains from the series are to be had, and that rather than limiting costs, it would raise them. Last year, HRC boss Shuhei Nakamoto pointed out to me the amount that Honda spent in Formula 1 after the introduction of the spec ECU, trying to work their way around the limitations that ECU imposed. A spec ECU would be a sure-fire way of imposing a rev limit, though a rev limit could just as easily be enforced by having a spec, secure datalogger, as is the case currently in Moto2.

Reducing the engine allocation and freezing engine development. This suggestion has also come from the MSMA - or rather, from Honda, which in many respects is the same thing - and cutting the engine allocation from 6 engines a season to 5 is most likely to be adopted. An engine development freeze creates other problems: Ducati, for example, is in real trouble with the engine they currently have, with Valentino Rossi demanding major changes to the power delivery. An engine freeze would condemn a factory which got their sums wrong before the start of the season to a lost year, and make it impossible for new factories to enter the series.

Whenever the changes are introduced, there will still be much wailing and gnashing of teeth among the purists that the MotoGP machines, with all of the technical limitations imposed, are no longer "pure Grand Prix prototypes". The fact that pure prototype racing died once two-strokes and oval pistons were banned is not something that will comfort them. For those that really love prototype racing, they can always turn to electric bike racing, the only racing series which is currently pushing the limits of technology, with advances often being made from race to race.

or this classic phrase

four-stroke bikes are just like attempting to use Miss Piggy in an adult movie; she’s going to make a lot of noise, and generate a lot of attention, but deep down inside we know that it’s all just a foam pig in a clown costume….it’s really hilarious to watch for a few minutes, at least until you realize that some guy’s sweaty arm is in there.


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#2 picblanc

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 15:57

A mess aint it!! :well:

#3 rd500

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 16:15

A mess aint it!! :well:


couldnt have put it any better than that

#4 fastfitter

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 17:52

Are the fuel limitations meant to act as a form of development that'll work it's way down to us road users? I reckon mpg figures are pretty far down the shopping list of most power rangers, well after bhp, 'pedigree' and this year's colour scheme.

Or are they merely a sop to the environmentalists?

#5 fil2.8

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 18:15

couldnt have put it any better than that



quite :mad:

#6 RC162

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 19:30

And the miracle cure to all this is ?

#7 fastfitter

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 20:41

And the miracle cure to all this is ?



Posted Image


:)

#8 rd500

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 08:32

i know its not nostalgia and not a lot of us watch it but heres the latest on the goon show

is it just me or have they actually no idea what they are doing, racing went on for decades without much upheavals, then all this, tell me if im wrong but this makes no sense to me this article..........

CEO of Dorna Sports S.L, Carmelo Ezpeleta, was present at Wrooom 2012 this week in Madonna de Campiglio where he spoke about future MotoGP™ class regulations.

The MotoGP grid has an enrollment of 21 bikes for 2012, including twelve factory bikes and nine members of the new CRT category. Regarding this mix, Ezpeleta stated: "We must immediately do two things: The first is to keep the grid is as compact as possible. This is not to say that there will be no differences, but to make sure that the CRT bikes are as close as possible to the factory bikes. Second, that factory bikes don’t technologically advance to performance levels that could be dangerous, with costs that can’t be assumed. For the problem is not just how to reduce costs, it’s that if someone invests a significant amount, wins the Championship and then leaves, it leaves you with nothing."

In this regard, Ezpeleta says that communication is ongoing with manufacturers. "We have three manufacturers - Ducati, Yamaha and Honda. I'm talking with them and I have ideas for making the championship more competitive. The basics of motorsport are the combination of entertainment and technology. In times of crisis, if we cut back on something, it must be in technology, not the entertainment, which both television and circuits pay for. Again, I'm talking to the manufacturers and I think we will come to a conclusion in May as to how the championship will look from 2013."

The CEO of Dorna is positive he can convince the manufacturers of the advantages these changes will bring: "Manufacturers are aware of the situation, not least because the crisis is affecting them too," he said. "The problem is that, for them, the priority has always been the technological development. And this development has made the cost of the bikes too high, which until now have been offered on lease. On the other hand, this technology that has made the motorcycles running up front lightning-fast has also created an issue with competition, because they are so superior."

"I think we will be able to resolve these issues by consensus," he continued. "If not, we have ideas, such as the introduction of a spec ECU or a rev limit, which could be launched as early as 2013, a year in which the Championship will be completely different compared to 2012."

"The establishment of the single unit, according to the manufacturers, would be the biggest limiter to continued technological development. We are looking at what the best way of limiting the performance—and thereby costs—will be, to ensure that a satellite team will be able to obtain bikes at a maximum of one million Euros per season, whether through selling, through a long term leasing commitment, or through CRTs, although this cost seems excessive to me for a CRT."

#9 rd500

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 08:38

followed up by.......

a statement from jan thiel

The world championship has reached a frightening level of degradation, Dorna has distorted the human and technical content of modern motorcycling, something must be done to restore dignity to the sport and have technical work in its totality.

Further stagnation in technology have given rise to all the same bike without much creativity and research to come up with the absurd change to the 4t motorcycle brand, this is no longer the world championship but the championship of some individual.

The world championship has always been the ultimate expression of technology on two wheels, today is exactly the opposite.

Edited by rd500, 02 August 2012 - 08:42.


#10 RC162

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 18:48

Posted Image


:)


or even this ?

Posted Image

#11 kz71

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 10:26

or even this ?

Posted Image



Better stay away from those 4 strokes, proven to be far too expensive....

#12 RC162

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 18:33

Better stay away from those 4 strokes, proven to be far too expensive....


I don't think there is a cheap alternative anywhere. No one could afford to lease an Aprilia 125 or 250 at the end so this made Moto 2 and Moto 3 possible. There's just no big money out there anymore. If you go cheap people accuse you of dumbing down GP racing and if you say any budget you end up with ten or less on the grid. Money is in short supply and all they can do is come up with something that fills the grids and keeps things going and if that happens to involve Honda in a big way then that's the way it will have to be. No one else seems prepared to put the money in and the moaners have neither the money nor the answers.

#13 rd500

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Posted 04 August 2012 - 10:01

I don't think there is a cheap alternative anywhere. No one could afford to lease an Aprilia 125 or 250 at the end so this made Moto 2 and Moto 3 possible. There's just no big money out there anymore. If you go cheap people accuse you of dumbing down GP racing and if you say any budget you end up with ten or less on the grid. Money is in short supply and all they can do is come up with something that fills the grids and keeps things going and if that happens to involve Honda in a big way then that's the way it will have to be. No one else seems prepared to put the money in and the moaners have neither the money nor the answers.


dont remember there being any problems before 2002, then the "4 stroke revolution" happened and here we are.

aprilia took hold of a captive market and so they should, it was IRTA and DORNAs fault they didn't intervene regarding the cost of aprilias, but then why should they, it was a perfect reason they could use to promote the absolute embarrassment that is moto 2, which they new was happening as early as 2004.

they didnt exactly put up much of a fight when ktm said they were leaving, but then again its what they wanted, have a nice easy transition to a class that wouldn't be out of place at a club meeting and make everyone believe it was a natural step from prototypes to road bikes with no questions asked, but hey who cares if there is no development.

just like the 500s, they were outlawed because of emissions (so the official DORNA press release read) but when you read the EPA articles it says that there is no emission laws on closed circuit racing, go figure?

yamahas M1 weighs 160kg (yamahas own figures) now, a full 40 kgs more than they're premier class bike 25 years ago. but im being led to believe, no infact im being told what i want to see is close racing but im not buying into it.

its all lies and smoke and mirrors, motorcycle racing now is adjusted for television and nothing else, they have said in the past that they dont care how many people turn up to watch as long as the tv figures are good.

#14 RC162

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Posted 04 August 2012 - 13:44

dont remember there being any problems before 2002, then the "4 stroke revolution" happened and here we are.

aprilia took hold of a captive market and so they should, it was IRTA and DORNAs fault they didn't intervene regarding the cost of aprilias, but then why should they, it was a perfect reason they could use to promote the absolute embarrassment that is moto 2, which they new was happening as early as 2004.

they didnt exactly put up much of a fight when ktm said they were leaving, but then again its what they wanted, have a nice easy transition to a class that wouldn't be out of place at a club meeting and make everyone believe it was a natural step from prototypes to road bikes with no questions asked, but hey who cares if there is no development.

just like the 500s, they were outlawed because of emissions (so the official DORNA press release read) but when you read the EPA articles it says that there is no emission laws on closed circuit racing, go figure?

yamahas M1 weighs 160kg (yamahas own figures) now, a full 40 kgs more than they're premier class bike 25 years ago. but im being led to believe, no infact im being told what i want to see is close racing but im not buying into it.

its all lies and smoke and mirrors, motorcycle racing now is adjusted for television and nothing else, they have said in the past that they dont care how many people turn up to watch as long as the tv figures are good.


So what you are saying is that if we go back to two strokes all will be fine and dandy and we will see full grids, lots of sponsors and packed circiuts. It's so simple I can't think why they haven't done it.

#15 rd500

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 13:47

So what you are saying is that if we go back to two strokes all will be fine and dandy and we will see full grids, lots of sponsors and packed circiuts. It's so simple I can't think why they haven't done it.



i dont know RC, its like they have tangled it up so bad that they dont know what to do, the fact remains there wasnt really a problem before the enforced 4 strokes arrived and whats there big problem now - keeping the costs down, funny that!

like it or not when they enforced 4 strokes in all forms of motorcycle racing they basically gave us the answer to a problem nobody had.

now we have got a problem.

2 strokes, 4 strokes it makes no difference but what they have created is not working, but in reality it might work for someone who is 20 odd year old, they might not care what us older generation thinks as we are not their target audience.

i am a firm believer in progress but there was nothing but lies and outdated stereotypes thrown at the 2 strokes when they changed the complete classes, 3 litres of fuel and specially made dunlop tyres that would do no more than 4 laps just to get a 600cc four cylinder bike to go round jerez as quick as a 250 twin, a 990cc 5 cylinder bike that was slower into and around the corners but was only 8mph faster in a straight line than a 500cc - it only cost nearly 3 times as much, but remember according to dorna at the time it was financially better.

its like its all short term fixes.

Edited by rd500, 06 August 2012 - 14:03.


#16 rd500

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 06:20

looks like a perfectly good championship is going to be ruined by the pompus nutcase television promoter

http://m.motomatters.com/node/6524

and heres the first statement

http://www.motorcycl...motogp-and-wsb/

those of you who follow this disgrace of a company which tells YOU what you want to see racing will know the balls up they made of motocross a few years back, looks like the same thing here.

#17 RC162

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 18:07

I thought the fact that both MOTOGP and WSBK were now under one roof and that this had removed any leverage that Honda may have had would have made some people happy but it seems not.

#18 rd500

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 19:42

yes, honda with more threats against the sport, mabye it would be best if they quit, it would certainly remove the most expensive satellite bikes at 4,500,000 euros and yes that is for one bike and no there isnt a spares kit with that.

the problem dorna has now according to the officials is the WSB bikes at most tracks are faster than the crt bikes so they will be slowing the WSB down so the premier class can retain its prestige.

just think about that for a second guys, they are going to put limitations on what is effectively a road bike class as the road bike class is actually is faster than the the grand prix bike of the future, the crt machines.


funny how everyone still finds a talking point about the alleged 1million euros to lease an aprlia 250 in which you could win a championship on but the fact you have to pay 300,000 euros to enter 1 moto 2 race seems to get skipped, and that doesnt include the cost of the bike.


#19 RC162

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 06:00

funny how everyone still finds a talking point about the alleged 1million euros to lease an aprlia 250 in which you could win a championship on but the fact you have to pay 300,000 euros to enter 1 moto 2 race seems to get skipped, and that doesnt include the cost of the bike.


So are you saying each Moto 2 round costs 300,000 euros or that this cost is for the season ? That would leave 700,000 euros to build the bike. The Aprilia costs were nearer a million pounds being 1.2 million euros for a one year lease and you returned the bike plus the running costs were high. You couldnt do a full season on the supplied spares and you paid through the nose for extra parts. Even if you ran an Aprilia you would still have the entry fees so Moto 2 is a lot cheaper and more about the rider than the bike. The organisers offer a race for a certain type of bike at a certain price and if no one turned up it would scrapped but they do turn up and since the changes to the now Moto 2 the grids are full. I for one like watching Moto 2 as I am a racing enthusiast not a technology enthusiast.

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#20 rd500

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 06:54

yes RC, according to information given to the press at phillip island last year this is per race and at the end of the year, the engine and whatever electronics have to be returned apparently also.

i agree that the tech guys will never be happy with the replacement classes but for me its like a huge part of it is missing now as i liked the development as much as the racing, it still amazes me that a 125 single gp bike could achieve speeds over 150mph! :up:

#21 tonyed

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 16:47

yes RC, according to information given to the press at phillip island last year this is per race and at the end of the year, the engine and whatever electronics have to be returned apparently also.

I agree that the tech guys will never be happy with the replacement classes but for me its like a huge part of it is missing now as i liked the development as much as the racing, it still amazes me that a 125 single gp bike could achieve speeds over 150mph! :up:


I'd understood that Moto2 had a Honda engine that was lightly tuned and prepared by Geotech which are then randomly distributed to Moto2 competitors :rolleyes: (Marc Marquez is fortunate to get the fastest engine each time, what luck :confused:).

The engines are suppiled at a fee (really :blush:) and at no time belong to the racing team. The team pay for the chassis and all other costs. So the likes of Suter, Kalex, FTR etc supply the roller cheap :rotfl: to the better teams.

All sounds like the 250 set up just the last few years with Aprilia, who supplied different deals inline with the sponds deposited. Teams did not keep the leased machine at the end of the year, but then again they didn't have the small ads to negociate.

'Aprilia RS250, never raced or rallied, one careful owner, suit multimillionaire'

As there is little market for these great machines I want to know why they are not damming up e-bay with a start bid of £0.01. :(

As for Moto3. sounds like cheap and cheerful racing. 6 engines at £15grand a throw(away).

So what would have been wrong with a second tier(tear?) class of TZ, RS Honda and RS (production) Aprilias?

Well our old mates Honda who can't seem to see beyond the 4 stroke dinosaur (despite some cracking smokers) seem to have slipped the authorities (who I am assured are as honest as a long day with the Kray twins) a crippler and bought the day.

So what have we got?

Three classes of donkeys farting their way round chicane ridden gokart tracks, soaking up money faster than the British tax payer can unfold it for govenment tax purposes with the same usual teams up front on this 'level playing field'.

No change then :down:

Perhaps the formula of:

Never mind the engine capacity your annual budget is XXXX€£$ etc, that covers everthing from transport to burgers for the leaches and once the piggy bank's empty then you have to start, not from pit lane, but from the previous GP. :wave:

Edited by tonyed, 15 October 2012 - 16:50.


#22 RC162

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 18:16

yes RC, according to information given to the press at phillip island last year this is per race and at the end of the year, the engine and whatever electronics have to be returned apparently also.


Well a little research never goes amiss. Average running costs last year for the Moto 2 teams per rider was 875,000 euros. 92% of all the teams were under the million mark. So the upshot is that you can do a Moto 2 season for less than the old leasing costs of a 250 Aprilia. I've no idea where the 300,000 entry costs come from as there is only a registration fee for each rider and that is under 20,000 euros.


#23 rd500

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 18:40



you obviously have have found diffrent information from myself so clearly this was one of the teams that was in the 8%.

anyway heres a link from the hardworking guys at 2 stroke motocross...

http://twostrokemoto...oing-for-broke/

Edited by rd500, 15 October 2012 - 18:42.


#24 rd500

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 18:48

heres some of the times from the 2010 rmoto 2 and the old 250s, not having a go at moto 2, just giving you the facts.

Losail
250cc race lap record: 1m 59.379s (Debon, 2008)
Moto2 race lap record: 2m 2.537s (Luthi)
Difference = +3.158s

Jerez
250cc race lap record: 1m 43.338s (Bautista, 2009)
Moto2 race lap record: 1m 44.710s (Elias)
Difference = +1.372s

Le Mans
250cc race lap record: 1m 39.666s (Simoncelli, 2008)
Moto2 race lap record: 1m 39.169s (Cluzel)
Difference = -0.497s

Mugello
250cc race lap record: 1m 53.669s (Bautista, 2008)
Moto2 race lap record: 1m 55.647s (Iannone)
Difference = +1.978s

Silverstone (New track)
WSS race lap record: 2m 8.717s (Sofuoglu)
Moto2 race lap record: 2m 9.886s (Luthi)
Difference = +1.169s

Assen (Modified track for 2010)
WSS race lap record: 1m 38.608s (Sofuoglu)
Moto2 race lap record: 1m 38.917s (Iannone)
Difference = +0.309s

Catalunya
250cc race lap record: 1m 45.925s (de Angelis, 2007)
Moto2 race lap record: 1m 47.543s (Iannone)
Difference = +1.618s

Sachsenring
250cc race lap record: 1m 24.552s (Bautista, 2009)
Moto2 race lap record: 1m 25.629s (Iannone)
Difference = +1.077s

Brno
250cc race lap record: 2m 2.299s (Lorenzo, 2007)
Moto2 race lap record: 2m 4.315s (Elias)
Difference = +2.016s

WSS race lap record: 2m 2.708s (Crutchlow, 2009)
Moto2 race lap record: 2m 4.315s (Elias)
Difference = +1.607s

Indianapolis
250cc race lap record: 1m 44.720s (Simoncelli, 2009)
Moto2 race lap record: 1m 46.580s (Simon)
Difference = +1.860s

Edited by rd500, 15 October 2012 - 18:50.


#25 RC162

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 18:58

you obviously have have found diffrent information from myself so clearly this was one of the teams that was in the 8%.


I just found it hard to understand how a Moto 2 team could afford 5.1 million euros in just entry fees ( 17 rounds x 300,000 ) It sounded crazy and clearly wrong so I just had a hunt round the net to see what the reality was. Bradl's team were not even in the top ten budgets and they won the championship so that can only be good for the class. I also see that entries for the 2013 moto 2 and 3 are looking good with 48 entries for Moto 3 and 45 entries for Moto 2 so they are both oversubscribed and will mean full grids and more rides available at the highest level. They don't list entries for Moto GP.


#26 rd500

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 19:04

mabye they were taking into account other factors which were not explained to the press like hospitality or the like, having said that its not uncommon for them to give conflicting information.

#27 RC162

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 19:13

" I'm not having a go at moto 2 "


:rotfl:


#28 RC162

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 19:18

mabye they were taking into account other factors which were not explained to the press like hospitality or the like, having said that its not uncommon for them to give conflicting information.


The budgets were for every expense for the whole season including hospitality, and clearly show you can run a rider for under a million in Moto 2. The vast majority of riders have to bring money in to get a ride and only the cream get paid.


#29 rd500

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 19:33

:rotfl:



i wasnt, honestly mister. :up:


#30 twotempi

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 21:20

So a 'World Super Sports" bike with chassis and suspension restrictions is faster than a Moto2 with a specialist chassis ?? Is the Moto2 engine that "de-tuned" compared to a WSS 600 ??

I also wonder if Aprilia ever made any money out of the leased bikes even at that price ? Very much doubt it with R&D costs accounted for with no commercial project to put it against.




#31 RC162

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 05:50

So a 'World Super Sports" bike with chassis and suspension restrictions is faster than a Moto2 with a specialist chassis ?? Is the Moto2 engine that "de-tuned" compared to a WSS 600 ??

I also wonder if Aprilia ever made any money out of the leased bikes even at that price ? Very much doubt it with R&D costs accounted for with no commercial project to put it against.


Moto 2 engines have to be reliable and have a base line of 150 bhp but WSS engines can produce 25 to 30 bhp more. As regards the so called restrictions on the chassis the WSS chassis have evolved into something far more technical than the standard roadbike. Yes they are based on the road machine but their performance is way above them. They also run the very best in suspension. Sufoglu was stunned by how slow the motors were in Moto 2 but praised the level of chassis performance.


#32 picblanc

picblanc
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Posted 16 October 2012 - 09:09

WSB & WSS never was production bike racing, it is like Touring cars silhouette racing, I enjoy it & BSB, Moto2 is great racing & starting to enjoy the Moto3 class now, MotoGP is much better too, but its not true Grand Prix racing where an engine builder chassis builder privateer etc could enter, its become to clinical....but great racing most of the time.