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Sebastian Vettel Thread Part II


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#101 Sakae

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 20:30

Bad day at the office. Next race!

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#102 LH08WDC

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 21:08

Good recovery afterwards from Seb. Loved when he just went inside of Alonso at the hairpin instead of taking the easy way of waiting for DRS.

#103 bourbon

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 21:10

Great job by Sebastian when the tyres gave out, to bring her on home in 4th with numerous spanking purple sectors. Keep it up Sebi! :up:

#104 joshb

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 21:12

Good recovery afterwards from Seb. Loved when he just went inside of Alonso at the hairpin instead of taking the easy way of waiting for DRS.


i bet you did!

it was the sort of race I wish just had another 3 or 4 laps

#105 Alarcon

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 21:15

I admit that I was too young to see Jim Clark race (as, I suspect are a large number of people on this forum) but that doesn't diminish my ability to have a valid opinion - I fail to see how my age is at all relevant to whether I am or am not a fanboy...

I'm not disputing the fact that Vettel is an extremely quick qualifier. If you've read my posts so far, you will notice that all I have stated is that:

1) I believe Hamilton to be faster than Vettel (hardly an outlandish suggestion).
2) I would like to see Vettel in the same team as another WDC before I fully judge his ability (an opinion that is held by many members of the forum).

I apologise if any of these opinions have offended you :rolleyes:



Far from that mate,

I just asked you "how about Alonso" and you didn´t answer. Alonso never faced a WDC team mate. Then you can´t judge his ability... isn it?

An opinion should be held by many members... isn´t? :lol:

Edited by Alarcon, 10 June 2012 - 21:24.


#106 fatd

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 21:18

Good recovery afterwards from Seb. Loved when he just went inside of Alonso at the hairpin instead of taking the easy way of waiting for DRS.


Second that, a gem among the DRS-passes :up: :up:
Pace's really good in the last stint.. I wonder if RBR actually flips their car's problem. What now, good in Q and not-so in the race?

#107 fatd

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 21:18

i bet you did!

it was the sort of race I wish just had another 3 or 4 laps


Take the final laps from China! :lol: :lol:

#108 Alarcon

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 21:21

Well is not too bad after all, isn´it?

Without Karthikeyan on the track Vettel would lead the WDC...

Now we must consider the WDC will begin at Valencia (a Seb track!). The difference between 3 WDC drivers is just a position on the next race. Then all can happen and after 7 races where Seb had struggling with the car, had even a 0 at China and felt uncomfortable with the car... just 3 points distance to the lead. As I said, the WDC begins right now.

So far, 2 pole positions and 1 victory isn´t bad at all.

Happy for Lewis, McLaren was unbeateable here and Lewis did the job very well. Nice too see him happy after some trouble races. RB and Ferrari risked and that happens. The best for Seb is being in front of his teammate who had a very poor performance today including both mistakes on Q3 and race.

Edited by Alarcon, 10 June 2012 - 21:23.


#109 joshb

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 21:23

Take the final laps from China! :lol: :lol:


yes but in reverse. Seb was charging at the end, only 2s off qualifying.
Its amazing they've done such a good job in races this year (less so today) but only have 2 podiums for Seb and 1 for Mark. Perez has 2 for Sauber for Christ's sake.
How he's only 3pts off the lead is a mystery. Sooner or later someone will go BANG BANG BANG and take 3 wins in 3 races or close to that and make a decisive title bid. Lets hope Seb is that man.
Valencia next, a track he's gone well round in the past in all kinds of machinery.

#110 velgajski1

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 21:26

Sooner or later someone will go BANG BANG BANG and take 3 wins in 3 races or close to that and make a decisive title bid. Lets hope Seb is that man.
Valencia next, a track he's gone well round in the past in all kinds of machinery.


I think the same, except that I hope its Lewis :)

But, I think that in recent races we do see return to usual balance of power with McLaren/Ferrari/RBR being best cars out there... RBR/Ferrari would be comfortably on podium had they decided for a 2-stopper.

#111 Alarcon

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 21:28

In terms of pace RB was not fast enough on this race... and that makes the Seb pole position lap much more incredible!

Ferrari and McLaren were faster and after that... Seb finished ahead Alonso. Well done!

Fastest lap at the end doesn´t mean nothing. However we know Seb is loves to do things like that at the end of the race (taking stupid risks).



#112 Romulan

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 21:37

yes but in reverse. Seb was charging at the end, only 2s off qualifying.
Its amazing they've done such a good job in races this year (less so today) but only have 2 podiums for Seb and 1 for Mark. Perez has 2 for Sauber for Christ's sake.
How he's only 3pts off the lead is a mystery. Sooner or later someone will go BANG BANG BANG and take 3 wins in 3 races or close to that and make a decisive title bid. Lets hope Seb is that man.
Valencia next, a track he's gone well round in the past in all kinds of machinery.



Agreed.

#113 Mandzipop

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 21:40

Question is, had they have pitted him 2 laps earlier, would he have ended up on the podium? I reckon he might have.

#114 bourbon

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 21:44

I think the same, except that I hope its Lewis :)

But, I think that in recent races we do see return to usual balance of power with McLaren/Ferrari/RBR being best cars out there... RBR/Ferrari would be comfortably on podium had they decided for a 2-stopper.


But Grosjean and Perez on the podium are hardly the usual balance of power. The very fact that RBR and Ferrari were placed in the position where they were not sure if the 2 stop would be necessary (as it turned out to be) is enough to show that the lottery effect is still at play. It will probably decrease as time goes on and qually was closer to that, but there was no return to the usual balance of power in this race.

#115 Zava

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 22:14

Question is, had they have pitted him 2 laps earlier, would he have ended up on the podium? I reckon he might have.

seeing he finished only 7 seconds behind, make that 2 laps 3-4-5, without losing time on the killed softs and flying high on the supersofts, heck he could've even won it. :D

#116 Anomnader

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 22:21

Poor tyre life and poor pace even with that, really he was beaten by Ham and Alonso had they used the same tactics. Didn't understand why they didn't undercut him with SS, would've had a good chance to win (although with the usually terrible top speed it would've been difficult to pass Ham.)

(Ham-fanboy mode)

Clearly showing why he's the fastest driver in the world in the last 3-4 laps, completely ridiculous times on the edge topped of with a monster 15.7.

(/Ham-fanboy mode)




(Vettel-fanboy mode)

KING VETTEL, fastest person in F1

(/Vettel-fanboy mode)

Works both ways, Vettel fanboys are just as bad :rolleyes:
You just have to open your eyes and look at the postings rather then turn a blind eye


#117 Mandzipop

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 22:45

seeing he finished only 7 seconds behind, make that 2 laps 3-4-5, without losing time on the killed softs and flying high on the supersofts, heck he could've even won it. :D


Wouldn't go that far but a couple of laps earlier would have probably gotten him a podium. If he hadn't have wasted a set of options in quali whenhe didn't need to, then he might have been on for the win if he had pitted 5 laps earlier.

#118 Zava

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 22:52

Wouldn't go that far but a couple of laps earlier would have probably gotten him a podium. If he hadn't have wasted a set of options in quali whenhe didn't need to, then he might have been on for the win if he had pitted 5 laps earlier.

I wouldn't say it was wasted, you never know if your first time is enough.
...okay, sometimes you know, see Rosberg@china just recently. but this was not the case here, had Alonso put a good 3rd sector together with his second lap, there wouldn't have been pole with the first attempt.

#119 Sinceref189

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 23:57

Unlucky for seb today but still got some descent points .One point i have to bring up is this guys overtakes this season. He has been ONPOINT and has shut up the typical haters they say he cant race, not only has his overtaking been a joy to watch but he's overtaking in places where he shouldn't at some points dismissing the DRS zones. Especially these outside corner overtakes where he should't even be placing his car but pulls them off brilliantly . Vettels racecraft has gone to the next level this year . Good luck for valencia vettel your record there has been very good :up:

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#120 SCEPurple

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 00:06

Unlucky for seb today but still got some descent points .One point i have to bring up is this guys overtakes this season. He has been ONPOINT and has shut up the typical haters they say he cant race, not only has his overtaking been a joy to watch but he's overtaking in places where he shouldn't at some points dismissing the DRS zones. Especially these outside corner overtakes where he should't even be placing his car but pulls them off brilliantly . Vettels racecraft has gone to the next level this year . Good luck for valencia vettel your record there has been very good :up:


Yeah agreed.

He seemed pretty upbeat in his BBC interview also and fairly relaxed. Webber seemed quite dispassionate

#121 hammibal

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 00:16

It seems that vettel can beat Hamilton week in and out in inferior cars, and even Mclaren acknowledge Vettel is better but you still dont believe Vettel is the best.

The 2011 Red Bull was an inferior car?
:lol: :lol: :lol:


#122 flyer121

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 00:22

Unlucky for seb today but still got some descent points .One point i have to bring up is this guys overtakes this season. He has been ONPOINT and has shut up the typical haters they say he cant race, not only has his overtaking been a joy to watch but he's overtaking in places where he shouldn't at some points dismissing the DRS zones. Especially these outside corner overtakes where he should't even be placing his car but pulls them off brilliantly . Vettels racecraft has gone to the next level this year . Good luck for valencia vettel your record there has been very good :up:


True , Vettel is developing into something of a overtake specialist ... the only non DRS overtakes came from him today!

Also he pulls moves on the outside in a sublime fashion !

#123 flyer121

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 00:29

Shouldve pitted for SS's at least 5 laps earlier, wouldve stayed ahead of Perez comfortably. Called it on race thread.


This ...

or even if they mirrored Lewis's he might have challenged Lewis on low fuel + SS tyres ... as he did in Quali !!

#124 flyer121

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 00:31

The 2011 Red Bull was an inferior car?
:lol: :lol: :lol:


No - only relative to the McLaren :lol:

#125 Pamphlet

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 00:35

The 2011 Red Bull was an inferior car?
:lol: :lol: :lol:


At the end of the season, according to McLaren it actually was.

#126 hammibal

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 01:04

No - only relative to the McLaren :lol:



At the end of the season, according to McLaren it actually was.

The McLaren engineer who designed the car?

I think he's perhaps the only person, i prefer the opinions of independent experts

#127 Obi Offiah

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 01:20

In terms of pace RB was not fast enough on this race... and that makes the Seb pole position lap much more incredible!

Interesting. I seen this logic used to explain how the McLaren is a rocket-ship, the best car on the grid.

#128 Afterburner

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 02:41

Firstly, very nice post :D

Regarding the first bolded part, if Vettel were to be pitched against FA, LH or JB and beat them I would indisputably agree with the assertion that he is the fastest current driver. There is simply no way to argue against that sort of hard evidence...

Someone posted a thread here a while ago totally debunking the effectiveness of teammate vs. teammate logic... you can find it here. If he beats one of them, but loses to another who loses to the one he initially beat (e.g. Hill > Villeneuve > Frentzen > Hill), then what's the verdict? ;)

On the second bolded part, I do agree, but I feel that the teammates drivers face are in themselves individual challenges and, as such should be taken in to account when judging a driver.

True. I think how they handle the competition is more important than whether or not they win or lose, though.

I also try to be objective but, inevitably, my judgement (as everybody else's) is affected by bias. Also, I problem that I always see in this forum is that few people respect the others' opinions. I'm in the Vettel thread and I support Hamilton so I will inevitably get slated for my views - despite the fact that I feel I give credit to Vettel where it is due and I'm merely expressing my opinion the same as everybody else!

100% agreed. You won't get slated from me for being a Hamilton/Alonso/whatever fan as long as you don't come into the thread trying to be negative. :)

RE the race: I think Vettel got the maximum out of the car today but was on the wrong strategy, as many have said. You could tell from the squirreliness of his car in the early part of the race that he was pushing with everything he had--in my opinion, the car wouldn't give him any more pace. He's only three points behind Hammy, so he's really just lost the battle but not the war (yet) here. The important thing is that he's been consistent so far. It's still anyone's game at the moment. Was anyone else reminded of Mario Andretti's attitude towards hotlaps when he kissed the Wall of Champions and then subsequently set the fastest lap of the race? "It's not a good lap unless you've got white paint on the sidewalls of the tyres." ;)

Next up is Valencia, and he's been strong there ever since he's been in F1 (points in '08, leading until failure in '09, victory in '10 and '11). Hopefully he'll have the car to fight for a win. Keep it up, Seb. :)

EDIT @ oligc94: Forgot to say thanks for the compliment on the post--it's nice to see someone recognizing the effort I put towards hopefully having rational discussions on here. :p

Edited by Afterburner, 11 June 2012 - 19:03.


#129 Romulan

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 02:58

Sebastian Vettel praised Red Bull's late decision to switch his strategy in the Canadian Grand Prix after admitting that the one-stop plan he was on was the wrong choice.

"We could have [done something differently] but now it is easy to say that," said Vettel afterwards. "In the end Lewis decided to go for the second stop - I think we tried then to get the place back by going for one-stop, the same as Ferrari."


The beauty of Formula 1 is you live and die on the edge of choice.
.

#130 joshb

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 06:45

To e fair, he'd never have caught Hamilton, once he took the lead he was cruising around keeping a gap to Grosjean so I'm sure he had a bit more in hand there. Hindsight is a wonderful thing and they could've gone with the supersofts with around 12-15 laps left and i think they would've pitted BUT Grosjean was just not far enough behind to clear at the pitstop and they didn't want to risk it with their lack of top speed (he found it impossible to get near Alonso with DRS)

in the end you may as well start the season now, its ridiculously close

#131 Kelateboy

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 07:06

Disappointed to say the least.

Vettel "lost" the race in the 1st stint. No pace whatsover from Vettel in the 1st stint. Barely had a 2s lead after a few laps. The track temperature was at its hottest 45C at the start of the race, and gradually decreased to 39C as the race progressed. Then you can see Hamilton was slowing reeling him by by a few tenths every lap. Vettel's tyres was the 1st to hit the cliff, earlier than expected. Why Red Bull still stucked with the 1-stop strategy is beyond me as Vettel punished his tyres trying to overtake Alonso in a few laps subsequent to the pitstop.

At the end, Red Bull did the right thing by calling him in. But 4th was the best position as there was no way he could have overtaken Peres for 3rd even if the race was 5 laps longer.

#132 choyothe

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 10:08

(Vettel-fanboy mode)

KING VETTEL, fastest person in F1

(/Vettel-fanboy mode)

Works both ways, Vettel fanboys are just as bad :rolleyes:
You just have to open your eyes and look at the postings rather then turn a blind eye


:lol: Not even close.


Unlucky for seb today but still got some descent points .One point i have to bring up is this guys overtakes this season. He has been ONPOINT and has shut up the typical haters they say he cant race, not only has his overtaking been a joy to watch but he's overtaking in places where he shouldn't at some points dismissing the DRS zones. Especially these outside corner overtakes where he should't even be placing his car but pulls them off brilliantly . Vettels racecraft has gone to the next level this year . Good luck for valencia vettel your record there has been very good :up:


I think it's great that people are seeing this now, but at the same time I really must question what have all these people been watching up until this point? Last year especially he was ridiculously flawless in his moves; it tells you something that his haters can really cling onto 2 occasions for the whole season: not making a move on Massa in Nurburgring where the ridiculous top speed meant that even with DRS he was never close enough (Webber most likely lost the win bc of this) and being cautious against Hamilton in Silverstone on a damp track , with a big lead in the championship and no chance to challenge for the victory anyway. Also I'm sure he had the best ratio of non-DRS/DRS moves from all the top guys, with many race-deciding passes to boot (Australia, Monza for example).

+ his RB career has only contained cars with poor top speed + the combo of RB5/6/7 + Seb has usually been stronger in qualis than races compared to the field etc etc.


Disappointed to say the least.

Vettel "lost" the race in the 1st stint. No pace whatsover from Vettel in the 1st stint. Barely had a 2s lead after a few laps. The track temperature was at its hottest 45C at the start of the race, and gradually decreased to 39C as the race progressed. Then you can see Hamilton was slowing reeling him by by a few tenths every lap. Vettel's tyres was the 1st to hit the cliff, earlier than expected. Why Red Bull still stucked with the 1-stop strategy is beyond me as Vettel punished his tyres trying to overtake Alonso in a few laps subsequent to the pitstop.

At the end, Red Bull did the right thing by calling him in. But 4th was the best position as there was no way he could have overtaken Peres for 3rd even if the race was 5 laps longer.


It was pretty jarring to see Seb having to slow down his lap times 5 laps before the 1st stop, just to see Ham and Alo throwing in their fastest sectors right after his stop. :eek:

I thought the hot temps were supposed to help RB and hurt Mclaren. What happened?


#133 fatd

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 10:16

I thought the hot temps were supposed to help RB and hurt Mclaren. What happened?


yeah I was also surprised with that.. they seemed harder on the tyre, perhaps bcs some change of setup for the qualifying pace? He pretty much lost the race due to that disappointing pace in the first stint.

#134 Alarcon

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 13:12

Interesting. I seen this logic used to explain how the McLaren is a rocket-ship, the best car on the grid.



Of course, Mclaren has been the fastest car so far because he has been fast in every kind of circuit.

In fact, without McLaren team mistakes (on pit, strategies, penalties...) and some bad luck, L.Hamilton would lead the WDC by much more than 3 points... and if you add J.Button poor performance (he performed very well in the first races... but then we don´t know what happens with him).

Then we all know McLaren is the car to beat in qualifying and on the race too.

#135 TheBunk

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 13:52

VETTEL THE F1 KING!!! 32 pole positions. absolutly stunning number. No doubt he will be the man to beat at the end of the season. :up:

#136 FlashMaster

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 14:07

Interesting. I seen this logic used to explain how the McLaren is a rocket-ship, the best car on the grid.


Even most of them said the McLaren had the better race pace (after mid-season).

#137 Kvothe

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 14:10

Even most of them said the McLaren had the better race pace (after mid-season).


I'm loving the self-deluded attempts to rewrite history.

Carry on

#138 Kelateboy

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 15:12

It was pretty jarring to see Seb having to slow down his lap times 5 laps before the 1st stop, just to see Ham and Alo throwing in their fastest sectors right after his stop. :eek:

I thought the hot temps were supposed to help RB and hurt Mclaren. What happened?

Watching live timing, it was obvious Vettel started having tyres issues about 4-6 laps before his 1st pitstop. Lewis was steadily closing in. Given his short gearing, I was hoping he could just drive into a distance - he's in no position to overtake along the back straight. After the 1st pitstop,he spend a considerably number of laps trying to overtake Alonso, but to no avail. At this point, I thought a 1-stopper was out of the questions because his tyres must have taken a beating from all those futile efforts to get passed Alonso. Coupled with a rather short stint on options and getting stucked behind Alonso, I thought Vettel was surely slated for a 2 stopper. Imagine my surprise then....

The track temperature more or less stabilized at 39C a few laps into the race. I kept checking live timing for this info. It started out at 45C, but even in the 1st stint, it had gone down to 39C and stayed at that figure until race end. Maybe McLaren hit the tyres sweet spot within this temperature range, that is the best guess I have. On why Vettel did not have the pace in the 1st stint and wrecked his tyres the fastest, your guess is as good as mine.

Better luck in the 8th race.

#139 Kelateboy

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 15:13

yeah I was also surprised with that.. they seemed harder on the tyre, perhaps bcs some change of setup for the qualifying pace? He pretty much lost the race due to that disappointing pace in the first stint.

He was short-geared. Getting behind was suicidal, unless the car in front developed tyres issues.

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#140 TheBunk

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 15:53

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Edited by TheBunk, 11 June 2012 - 15:59.


#141 joshb

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 18:40

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:up:

Ever the optimist!



#142 Slowinfastout

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 22:29

Vettel is on Letterman tonight, should be funny..

#143 Obi Offiah

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 23:43

Of course, Mclaren has been the fastest car so far because he has been fast in every kind of circuit.

In fact, without McLaren team mistakes (on pit, strategies, penalties...) and some bad luck, L.Hamilton would lead the WDC by much more than 3 points... and if you add J.Button poor performance (he performed very well in the first races... but then we don´t know what happens with him).

Then we all know McLaren is the car to beat in qualifying and on the race too.

When Lewis achieves a Pole Position but drops back during the race, he has underperformed in the best car on the grid. When the same happens to Seb, it shows what a brilliant job he did in qualification with an inferior car. Sounds like double standards to me. The fact is the qualifying pecking order can be different to the race pecking order, just look at Sauber and to a lesser extent Lotus.

#144 bourbon

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 04:16

Vettel drove around the NY Track today in a Infiniti at around 100MPH - some lucky sons o guns in NJ/NY got to have a ride too! The East Coast has all the fun. :D

Meanwhile, Vettel On Letterman shortly.

It's a USA RBR kinda day :up:

Posted Image<-SEB NEW JERSEY TRACK->Posted Image

Edited by bourbon, 12 June 2012 - 04:31.


#145 jonpollak

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 04:32

Seb was wonderful on David Letterman.

Gotta get a you tube of it up.

Jp

#146 Slowinfastout

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 04:36

It was good, a bit surprising of Letterman to have insisted so much on KERS, DRS and that kind of stuff, I guess Vettel was surprised too..

'... NOW, it's getting f*cking complicated!'

:lol:

#147 bourbon

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 04:39

I will see it in 2 hours - Cali time here. However, I got the blow by blow from a pal in NY, lol. Sounds like it was funny. :up:

Here's a Photo:

Posted Image

#148 plumtree

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 04:46

Formula 1 champ races through Grand Prix test run in Weehawken, West New York

Seb and DC did some donuts
- http://video-embed.n...l35zLecZpp8wkKm
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As for the Letterman show, it's a shame that he had to spend the most of the time on explaining stuffs like KERS/DRS. Not easy to crack a joke the way he did on TG, when the majority of the audience hardly have any clue about F1, I guess. Also Letterman didn't let him talk things through. :lol: Still it was a very good effort though. :)

Edited by plumtree, 12 June 2012 - 05:02.


#149 jonpollak

jonpollak
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Posted 12 June 2012 - 05:21

I will see it in 2 hours - Cali time here. However, I got the blow by blow from a pal in NY, lol. Sounds like it was funny. :up:



How 'bout right NOW instead..
Jp

#150 bourbon

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 05:23

Sweeeeeeeeeeet u rock JP :D

Thanks. :up:

Edit after watching: HAHA! That was excellent! Seb always cracks me up! Imagine the customs guy asking if he had a good seat at the race??? :rotfl: Gotta love him! Great Interview.

Edited by bourbon, 12 June 2012 - 05:45.