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Sebastian Vettel Thread Part II


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#2901 D.M.N.

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 17:40

Posts removed, it seems users are unable to grasp my warning earlier.

As a moderator, I would like to re-iterate what DanardiF1 said.

I should make it clear to everyone that this is not a Sebastian Vettel fan thread. This is a Sebastian Vettel discussion thread. Positive and negative opinions are welcome here from any user, you do not have to be a 'fan' or 'fanboy' to post in this thread.

That applies for any driver thread in this forum. They are not 'fan threads', they are 'discussion threads' where the drivers strengths and weaknesses are discussed. Your assumption that this is a 'fan thread' is wrong.

Thank you.



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#2902 LiJu914

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 17:41

I wonder what finishing position people expected from Vettel, to change today´s "meh" "just okay" or "odinary" drive into an extraordinary...

#2903 tmprikol

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 17:44

Credit! Where the credit is due. Vettel managed 3rd, you can call it luck or whatever but it is not an easy task to accomplish by any means.

from Alonso's fan

#2904 prty

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 17:44

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#2905 figue

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 17:45

I think some people are in need of some context here.

  • Start: p21 (3 cars out at start)
  • Lap 8: p13 (8 overtakes)
  • Lap 8: SAFETY CAR
  • Lap 14: p21
  • Lap 19: p12 (9 overtakes, gifted Hamilton’s spot, overtook Grosjean twice)
  • Lap 25: p8 (3 overtakes, Kobayashi pits)
  • Lap 28: p7 (Massa spun)
  • Lap 31: p2 (Alonso, Maldonado, Webber, Button, Perez pit)
  • Lap 36: p4 (pitstop lets Alonso and Button pass)
  • Lap 38: SAFETY CAR (Vettel gains 10 seconds to Button)
  • Lap 44: SAFETY CAR in
  • Lap 52: overtake on Button

Sebastian Vettel: 21 on-track overtakes

So while it may seem to some like Vettel’s race today was aided by safety cars and other drivers tumbling over each other, most of that actually happened behind him. Having to pit, ruining your tire strategy and fall back 8 places with the first safety car can hardly be considered luck, and by the time of the second safety car, he had already made his second pit stop and was in 4th place.


Are you counting HRT and company (including toro rossos) overtakes?

#2906 mnmracer

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 17:46

Are you counting HRT and company (including toro rossos) overtakes?

18 overtakes if you're grasping for strings to discredit him.

#2907 figue

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 17:49

18 overtakes if you're grasping for strings to discredit him.


I repeat it. Do you count HRTs and CIA (including toro rossos) overtakes?



#2908 bourbon

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 17:49

Vettel drove very well today, but lets not go over the top here.


Oh but let's do! For all who found Seb's race the definition of excitement, why not?

I'm feeling, Whoooooohoooooooooo! Yabadabadoooooo! Ring a ding ding ding ding ding ding ding!!!! Awesome Brilliant Fantastic Drive from the pit lane to 3rd!!! How sweet was that podium? :up: :D

Start in clean air, gaining,
risky inside doesn't work lose some wing
P12
Safety car
Ricciardo's rear coming suddenly, DRS sign even more sudden
Wing destroyed
Pitstop
P 21 back to square one
Take it easy and slow again
Grosjean
Where'd the track go? Crap
Give the place back
retake it all passes slower and surer
incidents happening all over the track
Hamilton mugged by his McLaren - again
Mark
Mark pits
P7
more incidents behind
front runners pit
P2
more incidents behind
Maldonado loses KERS
tyres fading, but Seb challenges RBR
RBR wins
Pit
Where's Button?
SC
back out in P4
Button
Button
Button
Risk the curve pass, leaving room, lots of room, staying on track with ALL FOUR tyres
success
P3!!!

Indeed! For all who will, Let's Do! Let's Celebrate!

Seb You Beauty!!!! What a Race!!!!! :up: :D!!

Congratulations!

Edited by bourbon, 04 November 2012 - 18:21.


#2909 mattferg

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 17:51

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Riccardo and Verne are driving for Webber's seat in 2014 next to Vettel, why on earth would they try and piss him (a potential future teammate) or Horner (a potential future boss) or Dietrich (their current mega boss) off? That's just silly. Of course they'd let him past. If any of the other teams had junior teams they would do the same. I even reckon Perez would do the same to Button in the coming two races if the roles were right.

#2910 Obi Offiah

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 17:52

Oh but let's do!

whoooooohoooooooooo! Yabadabadoooooo! RIng a ding ding ding ding ding ding ding!!!! Awesome Brilliant Fantastic Drive from the pit lane to 3rd!!! How sweet was that podium? :up: :D

Start in clean air, gaining,
risky inside doesn't work lose some wing
P12
Safety car
Ricciardo's rear coming suddenly, DRS sign even more sudden
Wing destroyed
Pitstop
P 21 back to square one
Take it easy and slow again
Grosjean
Where'd the track go? Crap
Give the place back
retake it all passes slower and surer
incidents happening all over the track
Hamilton mugged by his McLaren - again
Mark
Mark pits
P7
more incidents behind
front runners pit
P2
more incidents behind
Maldonado loses KERS
tyres fading, but Seb challenges
RBR wins
Pit
Where's Button?
SC
back out in P4
Button
Button
Button
Demmit Button!!!!
Risk the curve pass, leaving room, lots of room, staying on track with ALL FOUR tyres
success
P3!!!

Indeed! Let's Do! Celebrate!

Seb You Beauty!!!! What a Race!!!!! :up: :D!!

Congratulations!

:lol: No denying he drove very well :up:

#2911 F1Champion

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 17:55

Great race by Seb but he must be ruing that he hit the DRS marker board. Without that he might have won the race! He wasn't far from the leaders at that point and would have had a longer first stint and probably 1 less stop.

#2912 apoka

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 17:56

I found the right piece of music for today (bar some slight pronunciation differences):

This the day of the Vettel!

(Those who don't know it, need to listen 0:35-0:45.  ;) )

Edited by apoka, 04 November 2012 - 17:56.


#2913 Sakae

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 18:03

Can't believe he said f*** on the podium -

What an idiot.

I thought most in here like it raw, as it is, no corporate talk, so you have it.

#2914 Kelateboy

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 18:04

Feels like the whole paddock and fan world alike are starting to unite in hatred of this guy, and all he does is carry on and win. Good on ya Seb :up:

You do have those effects on your rivals and their fans when you keep on winning. But the best defense against those demeaning comments is to ignore them and to keep on piling up the race wins and WDCs/WCCs.


#2915 mattferg

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 18:07

You do have those effects on your rivals and their fans when you keep on winning. But the best defense against those demeaning comments is to ignore them and to keep on piling up the race wins and WDCs/WCCs.


Yeah I agree, but I'd say only to the extent of Hamilton and Alonso for the most part - they have huge egos and feel personally injured by Seb. Button however today I think was just a bit annoyed that he lost out on a podium to a buy who basically qualified P24.

#2916 mnmracer

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 18:13

I repeat it. Do you count HRTs and CIA (including toro rossos) overtakes?

21 - 3 = 18 right?
Go ahead, twist your panties to discredit Vettel. If you're so sour that you can't even credit Vettel in a race like this, I can only pitty you.

#2917 MP422

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 19:24

I probably do yes, but I can appreciate when a driver I may not be particularly fond of (Alonso for example) performs particularly well. Vettel only drove as we know he can in the last stint of the race, until then he had had some fortune and some mistakes. The combination of his adventurous first half of the race did help him secure a podium, there's no doubt about that. My points and posts are merely (and hopefully) trying to give those who say Vettel is great no matter what he does a little colour on what he actually has done. What is discussion if there aren't two sides to the coin?


Seem's to me alot of posters may not get it.

#2918 figue

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 19:34

21 - 3 = 18 right?
Go ahead, twist your panties to discredit Vettel. If you're so sour that you can't even credit Vettel in a race like this, I can only pitty you.


First thing I said yesterday was if someone wrote Vettel off this race would be mental. That rocket set up for the race with 8 backmarkers is going to be fighting for points before half way through.

I wasn't caught up by surprise here today at all. He was gifted with two SC added up to the fact he had a rocket.

His driving was just average for me. With that car and without his stupid mistake a win was likely, that would have been a driving masterpiece.

#2919 apoka

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 19:51

He was gifted with two SC added up to the fact he had a rocket.

The SC topic has been discussed quite a lot now, but they didn't help him that much (see http://f1stats.blog....rack-overtakes/ ). Anyway, there is now another thread for this.


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#2920 H2H

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 19:54

Seem's to me alot of posters may not get it.


Indeed and you are one of them. As I wrote in another thread I'm glad that I can take the memory of a great race with me and leave the sour grapes to others. It puts a smile on my face.

So let us hear from the man himself:

Wir haben das Rennen heute bei den Hörnern gepackt…

Was für ein Wahnsinns-Rennen. Ich muss jetzt erst mal nach den richtigen Worten suchen, so unfassbar war das heute. Von Platz 23 auf Platz 3 ist sicher eine unglaubliche Leistung und es fällt mir schwer auszudrücken, wie glücklich und erleichtert ich bin.

Das Team und ich haben trotz allem nie den Glauben an uns verloren und deshalb war es uns auch möglich, dieses Ergebnis zu erreichen. Ich bin unfassbar stolz auf alle. Jeder hat tolle Arbeit geleistet und ich bin dankbar für jeden und jede Einzelne.

Das Team hat einfach schon gestern gezeigt, dass sie sich von der Entscheidung nicht unterkriegen lassen und haben sich gleich mit ganzer Kraft in die Arbeit gestürzt, um sicher zu gehen, dass das Auto so perfekt wie möglich an den Start gehen kann. Ich denke, die Einstellung, diesen "Rückschlag" erst gar nicht als Rückschlag zu sehen zeigt, was für starke Persönlichkeiten bei uns arbeiten und das man am Ende nur dann Erfolg hat, wenn man Hand in Hand zusammenarbeitet.

Bestimmt war es am Anfang ein bisschen schwer, weil man ja doch diese 23 Autos vor einem sieht, aber ich denke, dass wir mental so stark waren, dass uns selbst dieser Anblick, von ganz hinten, nicht entmutigt hat. Ich denke, dass dieser Erfolg nicht nur für unser Punktekonto, sondern vor allem auch für unser Selbstvertrauen wahnsinnig wichtig war. Es hat uns gezeigt, dass wir selbst dann erfolgreich sein können, wenn mal nicht alles nach unseren Plänen läuft. Und das ist am Ende wirklich Gold wert.

Dieser Tag heute hat uns auch bestärkt, dass wir auf dem richtigen Weg sind, auch mit unserer Einstellung, immer bei uns selbst zu bleiben. Wichtig ist, dass man immer weiß, worauf es ankommt und dass man, egal ob man gerade in den Himmel gelobt oder eine schwere Phase hat, immer ganz fest mit beiden Beinen am Boden bleibt und auf das Wesentliche schaut. Wir werden auf jeden Fall genauso in die letzten beiden Rennen gehen und alles tun, um dort zu dominieren und am Ende ganz oben zu stehen.

Ich melde mich aus Austin!



I will do now a Seb and let other continue to do the talking.

Oh happy days....

Edited by H2H, 04 November 2012 - 19:58.


#2921 WonderboyF1

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 19:56

Completely unnecessary swearing on the podium today from Vettel, especially to drop the f-bomb. Shit and bloody could be tolerated, but no need for the F word, i hope the FIA has a word with him about it, considering thats our world champion.

#2922 joshb

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 19:58

Vettel
4 hopeless causes: China, Monaco, Spa, Abu Dhabi
4 incredible saves; 5th,4th,2nd,3rd
55 points when it could well have been only 10-15

That middle stint was superb- passing cars yet still going quick enough to keep all those ahead of him (bar Kimi) within a pit stop. Then pulling a gap on the midfield to emerge 4th from his final stop.
The only luck he had was Hamilton DNF, Massa spinning and the 2nd SC helping him take 3rd

#2923 Ricardo F1

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 20:21

So McLaren DELIBERATELY tried to cheat in Spain? Classy Seb.

#2924 bourbon

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 20:29

So McLaren DELIBERATELY tried to cheat in Spain? Classy Seb.


Officially they did. The FIA fined them Euro 100.000,00. Is Sebastian supposed to pretend otherwise?

Edited by bourbon, 04 November 2012 - 20:30.


#2925 joshb

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 20:31

Sebs passes
Ends lap 1 in 20th, ahead of Hulk, di Resta, Grosjean, de la Rosa
Lap 2. Senna into T7, Karthikeyan into T8 (Senna repassed him though, Seb clipping his tyre). Ends lap in 18th. Rosberg pits, so he went up to 18th
Lap 3 Senna and Pic down to T8. now P16
Lap 4 Glock and Petrov probably T8 but not sure now P14
Lap 7- Kovalainen T8 now P13
SC drops to 21st after the stop from P12, Vergne pitted, putting him up to 12th
Lap 15- di Resta in T7, de l;a Rosa T8, Grosjean take 1 on the straight, but he later lets him by so P19
Lap 16 Pic into T8 i thin, Grosjean into T10. Now P17
Lap 18- Petrov ad Glock, now P15
Lap 20- Kovalainen into T8 after Vergne in T7. Now up to P12 with Hamilton out too
Lap 21- Senna, probably DRS- now P11
Lap 23 Ricciardo somewhere Now P10
Lap 25- Schumacher, probably DRS. Now 8th as Kobayashi pits just ahead
Lap 26 Massa spins- P7
Lap 29- Maldonado and Alonso pitted and are behind P5
Lap 30. Up to 3rd as Button and Webber pit
Lap 31- Maldonado has pitted P2
Seb pits Lap 37
Takes Button lap 52

So all in all. He passed 21 cars
of which 1 spun, 2 he had to repass (Senna/Grosjean)
Call it 18 nailed passes
8 of them were NOT against Caterhams/HRTs/Marussias (so 10 were)
2 were against Toro Rossos
So if you are really picky, he passed 6 cars on merit

Now time to update my sig!
55 passes! He makes Barcelona's footy team look $hite!

Edited by joshb, 04 November 2012 - 20:38.


#2926 HappyPhantom

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 21:13

Officially they did. The FIA fined them Euro 100.000,00. Is Sebastian supposed to pretend otherwise?


Really? I didn't know that, but then I don't register much coming from McLaren...

#2927 Ricardo F1

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 21:16

Officially they did. The FIA fined them Euro 100.000,00. Is Sebastian supposed to pretend otherwise?

They fined them for a bloke underfuelling the car in Spain? Really?


#2928 mnmracer

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 21:33

They fined them for a bloke underfuelling the car in Spain? Really?

Bit harsh on top of the grid-penalty...

#2929 bourbon

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 21:36

They fined them for a bloke underfuelling the car in Spain? Really?


What is a "bloke underfueling?"

Anyway here is the Stewards Ruling:

“The stewards heard from the team representative Mr Sam Michael who stated that the car stopped on the circuit for reasons of force majeure. A team member had put an insufficient quantity of fuel into the car thereby resulting in the car having to be stopped on the circuit in order to be able to provide the required amount for sampling purposes.

“As the amount of fuel put into the car is under the complete control of the competitor the stewards cannot accept this as a case of force majeure.

“The stewards determine that this is a breach of Article 6.6.2 of the FIA Formula One Technical Regulations and the competitor is accordingly excluded from the results of the qualifying session. The competitor is however allowed to start the race from the back of the grid.”

Article 6.6.2 of the technical regulations states: “Competitors must ensure that a one litre sample of fuel may be taken from the car at any time during the event.

“Except in cases of force majeure (accepted as such by the stewards of the meeting), if a sample of fuel is required after a practice session the car concerned must have first been driven back to the pits under its own power.”


Which differs from the Red Bull case that was accepted as Force Majeure based on the evidence provided; hence no E 100.000 fine.

Edited by bourbon, 04 November 2012 - 21:38.


#2930 Ricardo F1

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 21:51

What is a "bloke underfueling?"

Human error on McLaren's part was the cause of the car not been fueled correctly.

Which differs from the Red Bull case that was accepted as Force Majeure based on the evidence provided; hence no E 100.000 fine.

Red Bull had a fuel pump issue, apparently, hence no fine. What Sebastian has rather ungraciously suggested is that McLaren sent Hamilton out deliberately with not enough fuel for the in-lap. There's zero proof of that.


#2931 joshb

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 22:02

I think he's taking a stab at them. Everyone (surely) knew it was a cock up by the man using the fuel rig- he left it for enough time to put enough in but for some of that time he was not actually putting fuel in.

#2932 plumtree

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 22:07

If something had to happen to him, I'm grateful the damage was done on Saturday, so there was something he could do to make up for it on the race day. Hopefully this was a mild version of Korea 2010 and the last two races will go smooth.

So let us hear from the man himself:

In English http://www.sebastian...4-november-2012

Today's race was unbelievable. Starting from P23 and finishing third is a huge accomplishment and it's hard to find the right words to say how happy and relieved I am.

The team and I never lost the faith in ourselves and I guess that this was the key to our success. I am so proud of everyone in the team – they did an amazing job.

They proved yesterday that even when the decisions go against them, they won't get discouraged and back down: quite the reverse. The team immediately went back to work and did anything in their power to make sure the car would enter the race in the best shape possible.

By refusing to accept this "setback” as such proves how many strong personalities that we have a team of strong personalities who all pull in the same direction.

The early phase of the race was a bit tricky. It's weird to see 23 cars in front of you, but we never stopped believing that we could get back to the front.

One thing is for sure. Third place wasn't only important for our position in the standings, but also for our self-belief. It showed that we can achieve great things – even then when things don't go to plan. And learning that is vital.

Today also assured us that we are on the right track. The most important thing is to know what matters most and that you always keep both feet firmly on the ground.

We’ll continue like this and we’ll do everything we can to dominate the last two races and make sure that we'll be on top in the end!

Seb

http://www.formula1....2/11/14024.html

Q: (Shubha Chandran - Chequered Flag, India) Sebastian, what kind of focus, commitment and mental strength does it really take to start from where you did, and eventually end up where you have, from a purely individual perspective?
SV
: The race is long. I said to the guys before the race that I trust them 100 percent and they can trust me. I will try everything. There's no reason to give up. Of course, if you look where we started, it was the worst possible spot but we gave everything we had and I think when you do that, you cannot fail so it was a perfect example of that today. Everyone was focused on the moment and enjoying it as well. Don't forget that, I think we are here, obviously, to fight for wins and stuff like that but we are also here to have a good time, enjoy and have fun and I think all the guys in the team at the moment, they don't want to be anywhere else. Obviously it's tough on Sundays. The tension is there, obviously you're nervous, excited, any race such as this one, especially with the difficulty of starting last but it's also the challenge that you like, to race every single lap. Obviously it's nice to sit here and look back. Some days it will be difficult again, when we sit - not here - and look back and look at the mistakes that we've made, but hopefully we will learn from those as we did in the past to maximise the times that we sit here.



#2933 dave34m

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 22:27

Red Bull had a fuel pump issue, apparently, hence no fine.

Yeah I thought that was interesting especially after they confirmed that they found no extra fuel in the car that could have apparently made up the 1 litre required. So it wasn't a fuel pump or fuel cell issue, it was that the tank was empty and sucking air that caused them to stop the car. Maybe the FIA should revisit their decision.

#2934 Kingshark

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 22:27

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That is delusional and ridiculous.

He drove great today but it's pathetic to see how Toro Rosso drivers are forced to hand everything for him on a silver plate.

#2935 jk

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 22:31

Good drive by Vettel and fantastic job by RB. Really impressive that they can change the setup that dramatically and get it right.

It also shows that the perceived difference between Vettel and Alonso is mainly down to car characteristics. If Vettel would use a setup like this regularly he would start farther down the grid and take the race to the guys in front. He has great race pace and with a strong top speed he can challenge fast cars. Instead RB goes for a more qualify biased setup, since getting the pole gives the best chance at winning the race.
That Seb mainly wins from the front is a result of the RB strategy. He can be racy as well.

#2936 dave34m

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 22:37

First thing I said yesterday was if someone wrote Vettel off this race would be mental. That rocket set up for the race with 8 backmarkers is going to be fighting for points before half way through.

I wasn't caught up by surprise here today at all. He was gifted with two SC added up to the fact he had a rocket.

His driving was just average for me. With that car and without his stupid mistake a win was likely, that would have been a driving masterpiece.

You sound like an angry man, never mind, I thought it was a great save by the whole team after a stupid mistake that threatened to upset their WDC chances. Good job all round. I'm not a Red Bull or Vettel fan but I enjoyed the race and can appreciate the quality drive by SV.

#2937 bourbon

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 22:41

Human error on McLaren's part was the cause of the car not been fueled correctly.

Red Bull had a fuel pump issue, apparently, hence no fine. What Sebastian has rather ungraciously suggested is that McLaren sent Hamilton out deliberately with not enough fuel for the in-lap. There's zero proof of that.



I don't think it was ungracious of him, it was the truth in his opinion. I agree with him based on the circumstances at the time. I would have believed it of Red Bull too if they hadn't provided evidence to the contrary.

Anyway, it's cool. We just see it distinctly. We can agree to disagree.

Edited by bourbon, 04 November 2012 - 22:42.


#2938 sniper80

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 22:44

I was so pissed of when he overtook Grosjean oustide of the boundaries of the track. Then he let him through again at a place where he could easily pick him off again at the next corner. He should have been given a 10s penalty for that after the race!
Vettel really thinks he can get away with anything, just like Schumacher in his glory days.

Edited by sniper80, 04 November 2012 - 22:44.


#2939 Zava

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 22:53

I was so pissed of when he overtook Grosjean oustide of the boundaries of the track. Then he let him through again at a place where he could easily pick him off again at the next corner. He should have been given a 10s penalty for that after the race!
Vettel really thinks he can get away with anything, just like Schumacher in his glory days.

:cry: he did as the rulebook says, after giving back the place, you have to wait a corner before attacking again (Lex Hamilton I.) he already entered the braking zone of the first straight behind Grosjean, after that you have a left hander, a right hander, and, well a left bending straight, don't know if that counts as a corner, but the 2 preceding that definitely does.

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#2940 dave34m

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 22:53

I was so pissed of when he overtook Grosjean oustide of the boundaries of the track. Then he let him through again at a place where he could easily pick him off again at the next corner. He should have been given a 10s penalty for that after the race!
Vettel really thinks he can get away with anything, just like Schumacher in his glory days.

So even when he does the right thing he is critised, he was much quicker than Grosjean so anywhere would have been fine really and if he was held up for 20 seconds or so to get past again it would really have altered anything anyway.
I guess this is what you get when you have just won back to back WDC in a fantastic car and are heading for another title. Really some people should really learn to sit back and enjoy this seasons battle for what it is.

#2941 Skinnyguy

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 23:23

I was so pissed of when he overtook Grosjean oustide of the boundaries of the track.


He did well getting out of that one. Even if he completed the pass inside the track, he got alongside by leaving it. Romain had stayed left to cover the inside into the next corner and Seb was trying to be a smartass.

Well done by letting him by again, it would have ended in a penalty otherwise.

#2942 Crossmax

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 23:59

Even with favourable gearing, two huge straights and DRS. Vettel didn't make one difficult pass today, Button backed out pretty early.

How much more difficult than the one he pulled on Button can you possibly ask for on this circuit? If Button wouldn't have backed out, there would have been contact. Seriously, can you tell me what kind of pass on this circuit would've impressed you?

#2943 Sakae

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 07:18

I was so pissed of when he overtook Grosjean oustide of the boundaries of the track. Then he let him through again at a place where he could easily pick him off again at the next corner. He should have been given a 10s penalty for that after the race!
Vettel really thinks he can get away with anything, just like Schumacher in his glory days.

What did he get away with in this particular case?

#2944 Ricardo F1

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 07:50

I don't think it was ungracious of him, it was the truth in his opinion. I agree with him based on the circumstances at the time. I would have believed it of Red Bull too if they hadn't provided evidence to the contrary.

Anyway, it's cool. We just see it distinctly. We can agree to disagree.

WTF are you talking about. There's absolutely NO evidence that McLaren DELIBERATELY fueled Hamilton low in Spain, at least no more evidence than Red Bull DELIBERATELY fueled Vettel low yesterday. There is NOTHING to be gained by fuelling the car too low, he should know that. One can only assume he was a bit miffed at being schooled by Hamilton this weekend.


#2945 Ricardo F1

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 07:52

How much more difficult than the one he pulled on Button can you possibly ask for on this circuit? If Button wouldn't have backed out, there would have been contact. Seriously, can you tell me what kind of pass on this circuit would've impressed you?

It was a great pass, Button fell asleep. And yes, Button should have kept his boot in and contact would have occurred. But Button is that much of a fighter sadly.


#2946 Sakae

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 07:55

Human error on McLaren's part was the cause of the car not been fueled correctly.

Red Bull had a fuel pump issue, apparently, hence no fine. What Sebastian has rather ungraciously suggested is that McLaren sent Hamilton out deliberately with not enough fuel for the in-lap. There's zero proof of that.

Do you have a link to that, please?

#2947 Ricardo F1

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 08:01

Do you have a link to that, please?

From today's press conference :

Vettel : I think it's different to what happened to Lewis in Barcelona at the beginning of the season, obviously they deliberately put less fuel in the car and stopped on the in lap, but for us, we had enough fuel but somehow we had enough fuel on paper but not in the car.

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/104047

With that and his swearing I'm amazed the FIA aren't fining him.

Edited by Ricardo F1, 05 November 2012 - 08:02.


#2948 Sakae

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 08:14

From today's press conference :
Vettel : I think it's different to what happened to Lewis in Barcelona at the beginning of the season, obviously they deliberately put less fuel in the car and stopped on the in lap, but for us, we had enough fuel but somehow we had enough fuel on paper but not in the car.

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/104047

With that and his swearing I'm amazed the FIA aren't fining him.

I think you need to make linguistic allowances for us "foreigners", and clumsiness how we express ourselves. As I read it, what Vettel is actually saying is, that Hamilton stopped on track prematurely due to strategic decision by McLaren to run a lap on very low level (on fumes), and in process they miscalculated volume of fuel required to complete lap (whereas RB had enough fuel, but undisclosed technical issue necessitated to shut down the engine). Anyway, this is how I am interpreting it.

Edited by Sakae, 05 November 2012 - 08:15.


#2949 joshb

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 08:17

Completely unnecessary swearing on the podium today from Vettel, especially to drop the f-bomb. Shit and bloody could be tolerated, but no need for the F word, i hope the FIA has a word with him about it, considering thats our world champion.


he has since apologised via his website- he must have been absolutely buzzing on the podium though

#2950 H2H

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 11:39


I'm terribly sorry for using the wrong word on the podium today and I'm sorry if I have offended anyone who was watching. In the heat of the moment, I didn't use the right words and I apologise. I'll do it better next time.


Well done, I'm not bothered by strong language however there are rules which have to be taken seriously.


Anyway I love his statement about the 'fun' he had in the car storming through the field. He has had already some great races through the field but sadly his ability over a single lap and a car usually optimized to be fast over a single lap have given him not too many chances. Everybody should have seen his overtaking craft already in the Tori Rossi he drove, so it is surprising to see a Zombie-myth going so strongly. Then again it wouldn't be a Zombie-myth if it wasn't debunked, dispelled, rightly ridiculed and still in the mind of some.