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Sebastian Vettel Thread Part II


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#3051 Kelateboy

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 18:49

I know it is only FP1 but it is looking good right now.

Go Sebastian!

We could all be excited if it was FP3.

Let's see if he is able to replicate that time in FP2 with a much higher track temperature.

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#3052 encircled

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 19:25

Guess I spoke too early.

He's out of the car right now.

#3053 Alarcon

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 19:33

Again a problem with the car... as he had at FP3 at Abu Dabi.

Let´s hope he can test all what he needs before qualy tomorrow. He has been the most unlucky top driver (with LH) this season! Issues, fuel mistakes, punctures, penalties...





#3054 joshb

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 20:45

Again a problem with the car... as he had at FP3 at Abu Dabi.

Let´s hope he can test all what he needs before qualy tomorrow. He has been the most unlucky top driver (with LH) this season! Issues, fuel mistakes, punctures, penalties...


schumi as, to be fair, been unlucky. He should probably be outscoring Rosberg/Massa/Grosjean yet he's amongst Williams and Force Indias

#3055 Sakae

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 21:01

Not too shaby FP after all.

#3056 Kelateboy

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 04:56

Not too shaby FP after all.

He lost a great deal of time in FP2 and sat out for nearly an hour. He was not able to perform any race simulation on prime tyres which had 1 single flying lap on them before he was told to pit with a "water system issue" on lap 3.

The FP2 was important because the track temperature would be very close to qualifying's - around 30C or so. In contrast, FP1 was run in 23C track temperature. At least when Red Bull fixed the problem with 20mins or so remaining in the free practice, he managed to do a few laps on options - both in low fuel and race trim conditions.



#3057 Sakae

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 06:50

There is no doubt that equipment malfunction affected Sebastian's testing regime, but we have to hope, that since Webber was in the office for the change, that some of his data could be useful. FP3 and Quali 1 and 2 must compensate for time that was lost. My concern only remains, whether they root cause the issue and is it fixed, because I am not sure they had time to validate whatever was done. Somebody probably was working hard through the night on it.

Edited by Sakae, 17 November 2012 - 06:52.


#3058 Kelateboy

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 07:05

There is no doubt that equipment malfunction affected Sebastian's testing regime, but we have to hope, that since Webber was in the office for the change, that some of his data could be useful. FP3 and Quali 1 and 2 must compensate for time that was lost. My concern only remains, whether they root cause the issue and is it fixed, because I am not sure they had time to validate whatever was done. Somebody probably was working hard through the night on it.

I am more interested with Vettel's FP2 time on options because it shows that the FP1 time on primes was not an anomaly. It is generally accepted by "race experts" that options are faster on this track by about 0.5s. Vettel's time in FP2 simply confirmed that he had more speed up his sleeves in FP3 and qualifying.

Vettel's archilles heel in Austin is the 1st sector. If he can nail his first sector and clock low 26s/high 25s, he will fine.

It is looking really good for Vettel and Red Bull here. His FP1 and FP2 performances remind me of Suzuka 2012, where he thoroughly dominated the race weekend and had his 2nd grand chelem (if I am not mistaken).

#3059 Alarcon

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 07:33

Also when a circuit is new SV seems to adapt very well.

Valencia, Singapore, Korea, Abi Dabi, India...

Also on the new circuits the hands are much important than the machine on the early moments.

Edited by Alarcon, 17 November 2012 - 07:33.


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#3060 apoka

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 16:13

Three good FPs so far with issues only in FP2 - let's hope for a good Q.

#3061 DanardiF1

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 16:26

Also when a circuit is new SV seems to adapt very well.

Valencia, Singapore, Korea, Abi Dabi, India...

Also on the new circuits the hands are much important than the machine on the early moments.


He seems to do well on Tilkedromes in general, there must be something in the layouts that plays to how Vettel drives. I think a confidence in his car also allows him to go out and 'play' with lines, in order to quickly find the best one around the track. He doesn't have that advantage on a track that is known to everyone already.

#3062 Mandzipop

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 16:38

Seb's first race was at the US GP. 100 races later is the US GP, and in theory (however highly unlikely), he may wrap up his 3rd title. Spooky. :eek:

#3063 STRFerrari4Ever

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 16:56

Spooky indeed.

#3064 DanardiF1

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 17:32

Seb's first race was at the US GP. 100 races later is the US GP, and in theory (however highly unlikely), he may wrap up his 3rd title. Spooky. :eek:


It's also a bit spooky how his successes have mirrored Sir Jackie Stewart's as well. The 1973 US Grand Prix at the Glen was to be JYS' 100th GP (though we know why he didn't start it... RIP Francois), and in that time he had won 3 titles, 27 races and was the face of the sport. He also had tough competition with the likes of Jochen Rindt, Emerson Fittipaldi, Ronnie Peterson... talent comparable to todays crop of drivers.

#3065 1Devil1

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 17:39

It's also a bit spooky how his successes have mirrored Sir Jackie Stewart's as well. The 1973 US Grand Prix at the Glen was to be JYS' 100th GP (though we know why he didn't start it... RIP Francois), and in that time he had won 3 titles, 27 races and was the face of the sport. He also had tough competition with the likes of Jochen Rindt, Emerson Fittipaldi, Ronnie Peterson... talent comparable to todays crop of drivers.


You can't compare that it was his 9th and last season. A season had sometimes less than ten races per year. Vettel is in his 5th complete season and is heading for his third championship.

Edited by 1Devil1, 17 November 2012 - 17:40.


#3066 DanardiF1

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 17:47

You can't compare that it was his 9th and last season. A season had sometimes less than ten races per year. Vettel is in his 5th complete season and is heading for his third championship.


I didn't mean totally...

#3067 encircled

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:02

That was closer than expected but yes!

Go for the win tomorrow Sebastian!

#3068 joshb

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:14

fair play to Hamilton, got closer than I thought. Seb said in PC he lost a fraction in S1 and S3, would've wanted it more comfy but bodes well. Alonso struggling but he'll find a way to get top 4 from there.


#3069 STRFerrari4Ever

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:16

36th pole position, glad he kept cool and delivered yet another great lap.

Well set for the race tomorrow!

#3070 fatd

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:17

No better place to start a race :D
Hope everything's going to go well tomorrow. Grab the title, Seb! :clap: :clap:

#3071 topical

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:21

I can't stand Vettel but credit where it's due, he has been excellent in the latter part of the season (even with that car) and did a great job again today. It pains me as an Alonso fan to say it, but Vettel is also deserving of this title, full credit to him if he can do it tomorrow.

#3072 MichaelPM

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:23

Congratulations to Vettel and RBR for the titles. No excuses (if's, and's or but's) matter anymore, they clearly did the best job and have really pulled it together when the pressure has been building while staying super consistent recently. :up:

#3073 Sakae

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:30

The way to go, soldier!

#3074 Topsu

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:30

Mechanical problems are the only threat.

#3075 choyothe

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:32

What's this? Vettel didn't go wide once whereas Hamilton did twice, what's going on? :smoking:

#3076 Kvothe

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:43

Excellent job by Sebastian to put it in when he needed to, he's so close to the triple WDC he can taste it :up:

#3077 H2H

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:46

Not too shabby of a position for tomorrows race where the points will be given - or not.

McLaren did look strong in Q3, which should not be a surprise considering the whole season and the last weekend(s).

I hope that Mark won't suffer a penalty for the missing, as it is said, the Q1 weight test.

36th pole out 100 races, a 36% pole rate. Not bad at all.

Edited by H2H, 17 November 2012 - 19:48.


#3078 swerved

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:53

That was an absolutely stoking effort from Vettel, what a conversion rate! 36 out 100, and latterly against some very stiff competition, when his backs against the wall he really does come out all guns blazing and shows how its done, far and away the best qualifier on the grid.

Superlative job, he's peerless :up:

#3079 Sapphiresteel

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:58

Superlative job, he's peerless :up:


Indeed. :up:

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#3080 Mr.Wayne

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 20:44

What's this? Vettel didn't go wide once whereas Hamilton did twice, what's going on? :smoking:

Strange... Vettel then should have been faster by 2 seconds at least... Remember, he can miss 4 apexes and still have pole. For Hamilton to lose 2 and be just 1 tenth shy of SV, is because either Hamilton is the best driver ever, or maybe (just maybe, not sure on this one) the McLaren is not as slow (and the RedBull not as quick) as some are tempted to say at every chance...

#3081 Obi Offiah

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 20:45

What's this? Vettel didn't go wide once whereas Hamilton did twice, what's going on? :smoking:

:lol:

#3082 Mr.Wayne

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 20:45

fair play to Hamilton, got closer than I thought. Seb said in PC he lost a fraction in S1 and S3, would've wanted it more comfy but bodes well. Alonso struggling but he'll find a way to get top 4 from there.

Alonso is making all his bets on Ferrari's incredible race pace and superior top speed. Don't be surprised if tomorrow, the car to have is, actually, the Ferrari #5...

#3083 PinkZepStones

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 20:47

Alonso is making all his bets on Ferrari's incredible race pace and superior top speed. Don't be surprised if tomorrow, the car to have is, actually, the Ferrari #5...



I thought this you know, that he was struggling so bad compared to, well, any other race this season it seems, that he has totally made that car pristine for race pace.

#3084 Obi Offiah

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 20:48

Strange... Vettel then should have been faster by 2 seconds at least... Remember, he can miss 4 apexes and still have pole. For Hamilton to lose 2 and be just 1 tenth shy of SV, is because either Hamilton is the best driver ever, or maybe (just maybe, not sure on this one) the McLaren is not as slow (and the RedBull not as quick) as some are tempted to say at every chance...

My opinion is that the RBR car is the easier car to drive and get a good lap time out of, probably due to how it uses the tyres. The gap to McLaren however is not always as large as some make it out to be.

#3085 PinkZepStones

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 20:48

Great driving from Vettel today, easy to get lulled into a false sense of certainty what with dominating all sessions until Q3 but he had to race that car around to not be denied P1,

I think the title is his tomorrow.

#3086 mnmracer

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 21:35

My opinion is that the RBR car is the easier car to drive and get a good lap time out of, probably due to how it uses the tyres. The gap to McLaren however is not always as large as some make it out to be.

A go-kart is even easier to drive, but (allegedly) 'easy to drive' is completely irrelevant to how fast it is.

#3087 Obi Offiah

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 21:51

A go-kart is even easier to drive, but (allegedly) 'easy to drive' is completely irrelevant to how fast it is.

Obviously timing shows the RBR is very fast, couple that with the stability it displays around the corners and one can't be surprised when many describe it as being the fastest car out there.

#3088 Sakae

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 22:00

AN about the car and Seb | DW

At Abu Dhabi this year, Newey told British Sky broadcaster that his Red Bull chariots were among the slowest of the field in a straight line on the circuit by design, because "all our lap time simulations say … that's the fastest way around." He might as well have been talking about his general design policy direction, not just the Abu Dhabi Circuit - and that is why Vettel is the perfect fit in a Newey car.

Driver and designer?

"Obviously, what Sebastian's been fantastic at in the past is: putting it on pole, making enough of a gap … and staying there," Newey said. That way, the straight-line speed weakness cannot be exploited. These "textbook" wins from the front, however, invite claims of a superior car and of an easy victory - ammunition for Vettel's many critics.
Newey has helped Nigel Mansell, Alain Prost, Damon Hill, Jacques Villeneuve, Mika Hakkinen and Vettel to world championships, but says he doesn't like to compare the many greats with whom he's worked.
"But the thing you can say about Sebastian is: he's a clever guy, he thinks about it a lot, learns from his mistakes, will often be there late in the evening, looking through the data, working with the engineers, looking at the onboard [video footage] of himself and comparing it to the other drivers," Newey told Sky. "So he tries to use every bit of information that's available to him. And I think that is something that I have seen in some of the other great drivers I've been privileged to work with – that's a common theme."

DW narrative: So for all his boisterousness, even rebelliousness, behind the wheel - don't mistake Vettel for immature. People like Adrian Newey tend not to be liberal with words like "clever."



#3089 rodfarva

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 22:21

well if vettel leads every lap and posts the fastest lap, he will be the first ever "uber chelem" winner = grand chelem + fastest in p1,p2,p3,q1,q2. a perfect weekend.

#3090 apoka

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 22:30

well if vettel leads every lap and posts the fastest lap, he will be the first ever "uber chelem" winner = grand chelem + fastest in p1,p2,p3,q1,q2. a perfect weekend.

Let's not be too optimistic. It's been a very good weekend so far, but you only earn points on Sunday and I'll be happy if he gets more points than Alonso.


#3091 Zava

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 22:32

re: Villeneuve article discussed in this topic: it seems Alonso was whinging about Schumacher holding him up on an outlap/extra preparation lap. I wonder what Jacques would say about that. :rolleyes:

#3092 Alarcon

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 02:06

What a lesson today! Amazing laps from Seb... and the most important thing and a thing people forget: SV is the driver with the most pressure of the grid right now.

He arrived at Austin after some problems, after a backup and with the question mark of a new circuit. And he delivered not only when it matters but in all the FP and all the Q.

Lewis made some mistakes on his fastest lap and that proves he has the much complete car, fast in almost every track. However and doing a very good job, Sebastian did his 36% of poles... when the pressure was at his maximum! He can win tomorrow or he can retire, who knows, but I think supporters we can be very proud. 0,5 a second to his team mate, 6th pole this season, without exhaust, without mapping... proving, as Gene said on tv, he´s the best qualifier of the grid!

#3093 Obi Offiah

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 02:11

What a lesson today! Amazing laps from Seb... and the most important thing and a thing people forget: SV is the driver with the most pressure of the grid right now.

He arrived at Austin after some problems, after a backup and with the question mark of a new circuit. And he delivered not only when it matters but in all the FP and all the Q.

Lewis made some mistakes on his fastest lap and that proves he has the much complete car, fast in almost every track. However and doing a very good job, Sebastian did his 36% of poles... when the pressure was at his maximum! He can win tomorrow or he can retire, who knows, but I think supporters we can be very proud. 0,5 a second to his team mate, 6th pole this season, without exhaust, without mapping... proving, as Gene said on tv, he´s the best qualifier of the grid!

Saying this often enough will surely make it fact.

#3094 Alarcon

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 02:12

Obviously timing shows the RBR is very fast, couple that with the stability it displays around the corners and one can't be surprised when many describe it as being the fastest car out there.


Is the old song, first of all this is SV thread and not RBR car thread, and I still remember when he did pole at Bahrein, at Canada, at Valencia... on the early races, where the McLaren was faster or as fast. Now he´s still doing poles (Suzuka, India, Austin) and some other drivers supporters came here just to point how easy to drive is the RB! Mclaren excepting Silverstone maybe has been always fast, while RB was not.

Today Lewis did some mistakes on his flying lap, and I still remember Lewis doing a big mistake on his flying lap at Malaysia this season and being on pole, the same as Singapore where despite the crash against the barriers... he did a better time than RB. McLaren has been the most regular and fastest car, because he has been in almost the circuits.

But the question (if you want to hit the nail) is if Lewis Hamilton would do a lap like SV in the RB or in any other car, on the same situation, that means with all the pressure over his shoulders. Despite I admire Lewis I have my doubts, mate... As Marko said, the best thing about Seb is he´s even faster when the pressure increases. Just watch Alonso today (pressure but not as much) and compare against Massa (zero pressure).

Edited by Alarcon, 18 November 2012 - 02:24.


#3095 Kelateboy

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 02:39

fair play to Hamilton, got closer than I thought. Seb said in PC he lost a fraction in S1 and S3, would've wanted it more comfy but bodes well. Alonso struggling but he'll find a way to get top 4 from there.

Vettel sector times on his 2 fastest laps in Q3.
S1 - 25.9s
S2 - 38.2s
S3 - 31.7s
Lap time - 1:35.877

S1 - 25.9s
S2 - 38.0s
S3 - 31.6s
Lap time - 1:35.657

Not drawing any conclusion from the sector times, but I could hardly find any driving errors from him on his pole lap. Personally, I thought it was a stonking lap by Vettel. No wonder Webber made the remarks to Hamilton - "No, he is the quick one"

#3096 Obi Offiah

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 02:48

Is the old song, first of all this is SV thread and not RBR car thread, and I still remember when he did pole at Bahrein, at Canada, at Valencia... on the early races, where the McLaren was faster or as fast. Now he´s still doing poles (Suzuka, India, Austin) and some other drivers supporters came here just to point how easy to drive is the RB! Mclaren excepting Silverstone maybe has been always fast, while RB was not.

That's your problem right there,..........."the McLaren was faster or as fast.". How do you know that the RBR car was not slightly faster, remember the McLaren suffered with tyre temperature. It is not as clear cut as you make it i.e. the McLaren was the fastest car early in the season etc, it varies from race to race, although the McLaren was fastest overall in qualification at least early on.

Today Lewis did some mistakes on his flying lap, and I still remember Lewis doing a big mistake on his flying lap at Malaysia this season and being on pole, the same as Singapore where despite the crash against the barriers... he did a better time than RB. McLaren has been the most regular and fastest car, because he has been in almost the circuits.

In Canada Vettel brushed the wall and was still fastest, that just shows it didn't cost him much. In Monaco drivers will often say you need to brush the walls to be fast, the fact remains these dices with the barrier have very little impact just in the same way as minor lock-ups.

But the question (if you want to hit the nail) is if Lewis Hamilton would do a lap like SV in the RB or in any other car, on the same situation, that means with all the pressure over his shoulders. Despite I admire Lewis I have my doubts, mate... As Marko said, the best thing about Seb is he´s even faster when the pressure increases. Just watch Alonso today (pressure but not as much) and compare against Massa (zero pressure).

I don't think there is much pressure when your a quick driver driving a car a capable as the RB8. Mark was half a second off Seb and is still in third.



#3097 Obi Offiah

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 02:52

Not drawing any conclusion from the sector times, but I could hardly find any driving errors from him on his pole lap. Personally, I thought it was a stonking lap by Vettel. No wonder Webber made the remarks to Hamilton - "No, he is the quick one"

Vettel himself remarked on some mistakes and his onboard substantiated his comments.

#3098 bourbon

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 04:33

At Abu Dhabi this year, Newey told British Sky broadcaster that his Red Bull chariots were among the slowest of the field in a straight line on the circuit by design, because "all our lap time simulations say … that's the fastest way around." He might as well have been talking about his general design policy direction, not just the Abu Dhabi Circuit - and that is why Vettel is the perfect fit in a Newey car.

Driver and designer?

"Obviously, what Sebastian's been fantastic at in the past is: putting it on pole, making enough of a gap … and staying there," Newey said. That way, the straight-line speed weakness cannot be exploited. These "textbook" wins from the front, however, invite claims of a superior car and of an easy victory - ammunition for Vettel's many critics.
Newey has helped Nigel Mansell, Alain Prost, Damon Hill, Jacques Villeneuve, Mika Hakkinen and Vettel to world championships, but says he doesn't like to compare the many greats with whom he's worked.
"But the thing you can say about Sebastian is: he's a clever guy, he thinks about it a lot, learns from his mistakes, will often be there late in the evening, looking through the data, working with the engineers, looking at the onboard [video footage] of himself and comparing it to the other drivers," Newey told Sky. "So he tries to use every bit of information that's available to him. And I think that is something that I have seen in some of the other great drivers I've been privileged to work with – that's a common theme."

DW narrative: So for all his boisterousness, even rebelliousness, behind the wheel - don't mistake Vettel for immature. People like Adrian Newey tend not to be liberal with words like "clever."


I think that DW stressed the wrong the point. What he said was nice - Vettel is clever rather than immature, but that will not make a lot of sense to people because one can be immature and clever.

What Newey said was important. It is Vettel's hard work that pays off - just as it is the team/factory's work that pays off. It is always driver + car. When you consider all of the work put in, it becomes clear that there is no such thing as an "easy victory". It may look easy, but that is because we do not witness all the blood, sweat and tears during long, long hours that goes into it.

Seb is not the only talented driver to do this, nor RBR the only talented team up to its armpits in elbow grease - but that is even more reason why the word "easy" should never be uttered in association with F1.

Edited by bourbon, 18 November 2012 - 04:36.


#3099 Kelateboy

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 04:48

Vettel himself remarked on some mistakes and his onboard substantiated his comments.

Against a perfect benchmark, yes he could probably have gone a bit faster in the first and final sector.

But IMO, no significant mistakes on his fastest lap that are worth discussing, unless you are just trying to find some issues with his driving.


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#3100 Obi Offiah

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 05:51

Against a perfect benchmark, yes he could probably have gone a bit faster in the first and final sector.

But IMO, no significant mistakes on his fastest lap that are worth discussing, unless you are just trying to find some issues with his driving.

I was a bit to quick off the mark there Kelateboy and thought you had said it was a perfect lap :) I have no issue with Vettel's driving, he's driving brilliantly.