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Sebastian Vettel Thread Part II


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#3101 Sakae

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 06:07

Vettel himself remarked on some mistakes and his onboard substantiated his comments.

...and you made an effort to come here and tell us how perfect Hamilton and Alonso are, and how imperfect Seb is. Thanks. Race is yet to be executed, and it could be won or lost for numerous reasons, but I am happy with things as they are so far this weekend.

Edited by Sakae, 18 November 2012 - 06:10.


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#3102 Obi Offiah

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 06:10

...and you made an effort to come here and tell us how perfect Hamiltona and Alonso are, and how imperfect Seb is. Thanks. Race is yet to be executed, and it could be won or lost for numerous reasons, but I am happy with things as they are so far in the weekend.

Where did I say Lewis and Fernando were perfect and Seb wasn't? I've been posting that Lewis made a couple of mistakes and that with a perfect lap he could have secured Pole Position.

#3103 Sakae

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 06:18

This is thread about Seb, and despite all his shortcomings, real or perceived, he has done well so far, thus why not enjoy, and soak it for a minute or two in moments like these? In every race there are some IFs, but at the end result is what counts while journey is pretty good, and life goes on.

#3104 Ricardo F1

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 06:49

What a lesson today! Amazing laps from Seb... and the most important thing and a thing people forget: SV is the driver with the most pressure of the grid right now.

He arrived at Austin after some problems, after a backup and with the question mark of a new circuit. And he delivered not only when it matters but in all the FP and all the Q.

Lewis made some mistakes on his fastest lap and that proves he has the much complete car, fast in almost every track. However and doing a very good job, Sebastian did his 36% of poles... when the pressure was at his maximum! He can win tomorrow or he can retire, who knows, but I think supporters we can be very proud. 0,5 a second to his team mate, 6th pole this season, without exhaust, without mapping... proving, as Gene said on tv, he´s the best qualifier of the grid!

What on EARTH are you talking about. There's no pressure on Seb, he has the best car by a country mile and just has to do his job. He's leading the Championship and the only guy who has a shot at it is in 9th with a car way off the pace. The RB8 is untouchable at this point of the season, hence why everyone including Hamilton was shocked to be anywhere near them. It's like you live in a parallel universe. Melbourne was 8 months ago.

Not that it wasn't a good lap by Seb, but McLaren were far closer than anyone thought they'd be and Webber had a car issue and STILL came third.

Edited by Ricardo F1, 18 November 2012 - 06:49.


#3105 Alarcon

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 07:28

What on EARTH are you talking about. There's no pressure on Seb, he has the best car by a country mile and just has to do his job. He's leading the Championship and the only guy who has a shot at it is in 9th with a car way off the pace. The RB8 is untouchable at this point of the season, hence why everyone including Hamilton was shocked to be anywhere near them. It's like you live in a parallel universe. Melbourne was 8 months ago.

Not that it wasn't a good lap by Seb, but McLaren were far closer than anyone thought they'd be and Webber had a car issue and STILL came third.



You are shocked about where Lewis is? Well, he did the pole position at Abu Dabi last GP... his McLaren has been the most dominant car in almost the qualy this season and you are shocked? What do you think Lewis´is driving, an HRT?

Wake up! The "theory" or "excuses" about the RBR are dead. No more exhaust, no more mapping and still a good car just on the last 4 races. We´ve seen at Abu Dabi how a Lotus and a McLaren were much faster than anyone (last race and not Melbourne), and this is a new track, where you never know, you are fighting for a WDC and you must deliver. The only universe in F1 is the real one, and here Vettel achieved the most brilliant pole on the new circuit of the season, being the driver with the most pressure on his shoulders, because he is fighting for a WDC and defending his leading.

Just look how Massa and Webber delivered without pressure and compare. About the bold you have proved enough what you know about the sport.

P.D. Webber had no issue while he did his fastest laps.

Edited by Alarcon, 18 November 2012 - 07:39.


#3106 Ricardo F1

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 07:30

Webber had a car problem. Hamilton drove an absolutely cracking lap at Abu Dabi while Vettel admitted he ballsed it up. McLaren has NOT been the most dominant car in almost all qualifying, like I said, you're living in Melbourne time or something. The problem isn't the other people who are many who frequently call you on this, it's your problem. I know enough about the sport to know that every driver on the grid wishes they were in Sebs car right now and wished they had been for three years. And Massa and Webber have had MORE pressure than Hamilton or Vettel - their jobs have been at stake.

Edited by Ricardo F1, 18 November 2012 - 07:33.


#3107 swerved

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 07:54

What on EARTH are you talking about. There's no pressure on Seb, he has the best car by a country mile and just has to do his job. He's leading the Championship and the only guy who has a shot at it is in 9th with a car way off the pace. The RB8 is untouchable at this point of the season, hence why everyone including Hamilton was shocked to be anywhere near them. It's like you live in a parallel universe. Melbourne was 8 months ago.

Not that it wasn't a good lap by Seb, but McLaren were far closer than anyone thought they'd be and Webber had a car issue and STILL came third.


Grosjean is in 9th.


#3108 Alarcon

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 07:58

Webber had a car problem. Hamilton drove an absolutely cracking lap at Abu Dabi while Vettel admitted he ballsed it up. McLaren has NOT been the most dominant car in almost all qualifying, like I said, you're living in Melbourne time or something. The problem isn't the other people who are many who frequently call you on this, it's your problem. I know enough about the sport to know that every driver on the grid wishes they were in Sebs car right now and wished they had been for three years. And Massa and Webber have had MORE pressure than Hamilton or Vettel - their jobs have been at stake.


:drunk:

Casually Lewis did an absolutely cracking lap at Abu Dabi... his car was not the fastest on the track... and Vettel missed the pole by himself. As I said you have proved enough with your bold stat. Sorry don´t want to miss my time, and I still remember this is not the thread to talk about Hamilton.

P.D. Again not living in Melbourne.

Melbourne, China, Malaysia, Barcelona, Germany, Hungary, Singapore, Monza, Spa, Abu Dabi all those tracks McLaren was faster than RB on qualy. It´s a fact and we have nothing to discuss about. 10 races over 18. And about Abu Dabi Lewis himself recog. he has the race on his pocket... and that was just two weeks ago, not Melbourne. About the SV at Abu Dabi he had a damaged car and he said he could have done slightly better on the last sector, but maybe not enough to beat Mark. Stop inventing!

Edited by Alarcon, 18 November 2012 - 08:00.


#3109 Alarcon

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 08:01

Webber had a car problem. Hamilton drove an absolutely cracking lap at Abu Dabi while Vettel admitted he ballsed it up. McLaren has NOT been the most dominant car in almost all qualifying, like I said, you're living in Melbourne time or something. The problem isn't the other people who are many who frequently call you on this, it's your problem. I know enough about the sport to know that every driver on the grid wishes they were in Sebs car right now and wished they had been for three years. And Massa and Webber have had MORE pressure than Hamilton or Vettel - their jobs have been at stake.


Have had??? Or has??? Because both are renovated and we are talking about the last race... not about Melbourne, isn´it??? Massa, Webber and Hamilton has 0 pressure.

while S.Vettel is the driver with the much highest pressure on the grid right now. He arrived a new circuit, the pressure increases because the track is long, easy to fail and you never know, all the eyes are on him because he´s the leading and the guy who still fights from the top. And despite of it he did the fastest lap (again) and delivered (again) while the other contender (Alonso) cracked under pressure and did a bad lap.

In this story Lewis without pressure was not enable to beat Seb. And it´s much easier to run without pressure. In fact, that´s the most important thing in F1.

End off.

Edited by Alarcon, 18 November 2012 - 08:07.


#3110 bl-f1

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 08:22

Have had??? Or has??? Because both are renovated and we are talking about the last race... not about Melbourne, isn´it??? Massa, Webber and Hamilton has 0 pressure.

while S.Vettel is the driver with the much highest pressure on the grid right now. He arrived a new circuit, the pressure increases because the track is long, easy to fail and you never know, all the eyes are on him because he´s the leading and the guy who still fights from the top. And despite of it he did the fastest lap (again) and delivered (again) while the other contender (Alonso) cracked under pressure and did a bad lap.

In this story Lewis without pressure was not enable to beat Seb. And it´s much easier to run without pressure. In fact, that´s the most important thing in F1.

End off.


Unbelievable.


#3111 H2H

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 09:33


I think one should not get too impressed by yesterday results. Seb did a great job, putting the car on pole with a great margin on his teammate despite having no a perfect lap. Keep in mind that among all the top driver he is by far the most critical of his personal performance and you certainly won't hear something stupid like the car didn't belong there. He is in this sense a refreshing no nonsense guy.

Lewis seems to be a threat, especially in T1. So far we have not seen how the cars do on a well rubbered in track so the race pace, especially on the hards is still a bit of a riddle. I would have loved to see Button in a working car to have another reference for the competitivness of McLaren but we can not change that. All in all a race is long and a lot can happen. It will be important to lead after T1 or at least be still in the race and hope that it will be smooth race.

#3112 Zava

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 10:54

Literal F1 ‏@LiteralF1
Interesting analysis from Davidson on @SkySportsF1 - Lewis made multiple mistakes on his lap whilst Vettel none = McLaren quickest car

#3113 Alarcon

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 11:21

Literal F1 ‏@LiteralF1
Interesting analysis from Davidson on @SkySportsF1 - Lewis made multiple mistakes on his lap whilst Vettel none = McLaren quickest car



:up:

Another one who say the same as I´ve said and some Lewis supporters doesn´t want to accept...

Thanks Zava!


Edited by Alarcon, 18 November 2012 - 11:23.


#3114 Andy35

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 15:19

Superlative job, he's peerless :up:


I'm not sure some of the other drivers on the grid would agree with that statement.

I'd fecking look good in that Redbull at the moment, so would my mum and she is in her 80's :p

Andy

#3115 Andy35

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 15:22

Literal F1 ‏@LiteralF1
Interesting analysis from Davidson on @SkySportsF1 - Lewis made multiple mistakes on his lap whilst Vettel none = McLaren quickest car


What a silly analysis. The reason being you can spot a mistake and mark it down but then it is impossible to spot where the driver pushed the car further than it could have gone on multiple other instances on the same lap. That goes for Lewis and Seb on those laps.

Basically they have constructed an argument to show what they wanted to be true. Well done.

Andy

Edited by Andy35, 18 November 2012 - 15:24.


#3116 choyothe

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 15:38

What a silly analysis. The reason being you can spot a mistake and mark it down but then it is impossible to spot where the driver pushed the car further than it could have gone on multiple other instances on the same lap. That goes for Lewis and Seb on those laps.

Basically they have constructed an argument to show what they wanted to be true. Well done.

Andy


I'm curious, why doesn't it work the other way around then?

#3117 Sakae

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 15:39

I think one should not get too impressed by yesterday results. Seb did a great job, putting the car on pole with a great margin on his teammate despite having no a perfect lap. Keep in mind that among all the top driver he is by far the most critical of his personal performance and you certainly won't hear something stupid like the car didn't belong there. He is in this sense a refreshing no nonsense guy.

Lewis seems to be a threat, especially in T1. So far we have not seen how the cars do on a well rubbered in track so the race pace, especially on the hards is still a bit of a riddle. I would have loved to see Button in a working car to have another reference for the competitivness of McLaren but we can not change that. All in all a race is long and a lot can happen. It will be important to lead after T1 or at least be still in the race and hope that it will be smooth race.

I understand your line of consideration, but let me ask you about bolded text. We, Vettel's fans, weren't supposed to be impressed at AD because it was nothing special, say local "experts", and now it is suggested we should forget about FPs this weekend, or his quali. My question is then, what Seb has to do for us to enjoy it?

#3118 DanardiF1

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 17:20

Literal F1 ‏@LiteralF1
Interesting analysis from Davidson on @SkySportsF1 - Lewis made multiple mistakes on his lap whilst Vettel none = McLaren quickest car


Perhaps that was because Hamilton was having to push more than Vettel to get near the Red Bull's pace...

#3119 Ricardo F1

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 17:25

I'm curious, why doesn't it work the other way around then?

Didn't Damon Hill or someone then come on and contradict him. Davidson has a massive chip on his shoulder when it comes to Hamilton, as far as I can tell he pretty much blames Hamilton for the end of his F1 career.


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#3120 Ricardo F1

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 17:25

Casually Lewis did an absolutely cracking lap at Abu Dabi... his car was not the fastest on the track... and Vettel missed the pole by himself.

Pretty much what he (Vettel) said yes.

Edited by Ricardo F1, 18 November 2012 - 17:26.


#3121 Mr.Wayne

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 17:30

Perhaps that was because Hamilton was having to push more than Vettel to get near the Red Bull's pace...

The irony of that is that it was Hamilton who said that Vettel could make mistakes and still be in the front row, while he had to do everything perfect and be way behind...
With the cars so equally matched as they have been this year, I don't think making those sort of arguments is smart: they backfire really fast!

#3122 race addicted

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 17:31

Hill, DC and Herbert has praised Hamilton's effort.
Davidson has a Texas Longhorn in the side for Hamilton. It's been shining through multiple times.

#3123 apoka

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 17:35

I can't wait for the race. A win would be a huge step towards a third WDC no matter where Alonso finishes. At a new track without much rubber, there could be some ups and downs in terms of car performance throughout the race.


#3124 Absulute

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 17:37

Perhaps that was because Hamilton was having to push more than Vettel to get near the Red Bull's pace...


Yep, sometimes the correct answer is the most obvious one.

#3125 STRFerrari4Ever

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 18:05

Today could be the crowning day...

#3126 krea

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 18:38

Perhaps that was because Hamilton was having to push more than Vettel to get near the Red Bull's pace...


though, he lost time with this "pushing".



#3127 DanardiF1

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 18:39

though, he lost time with this "pushing".


He did... it's hard to do everything perfectly when you're at a disadvantage...

#3128 krea

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 18:43

He did... it's hard to do everything perfectly when you're at a disadvantage...


the differene was even with all his mistakes just .1xx that's nothing.

#3129 PinkZepStones

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 18:44

though, he lost time with this "pushing".


Derp,

If he late brakes and gains say .7 of a second, he might lock up twice and lose .2, so hes still gained .5 by ragging the car around. Do i need to explain again?

#3130 krea

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 18:47

Derp,

If he late brakes and gains say .7 of a second, he might lock up twice and lose .2, so hes still gained .5 by ragging the car around. Do i need to explain again?


this makes no sense in context of Hamilton's lap.

#3131 joshb

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 18:48

Come on Seb! Lets hope 2 hours from now he's got the keys to the door for hall of fame

#3132 encircled

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 20:42

Looking at the positives, Seb gained 3 points.

Bring on Brazil!

#3133 apoka

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 20:44

I thought I'd be happy about any finish in front of Alonso, but no - not really. :| All it needs is a little rain at the last race and the title could well be gone ...

A 40s gap to Alonso and just no one there to fill that gap - Webber out, Button slow and Massa not allowed.



#3134 choyothe

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 20:46

Lost with the combination of an inferior car, Karthikeyan holding Vettel up throughout the esses in S1 and the long DRS-zone, but still a great fight.

#3135 joshb

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 20:48

Bit underwhelmed with the result- would have wanted a bigger gap or it being done but fair play to Hamilton- i think he may have passed him but the HRT made it a slam dunk

#3136 fatd

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 20:56

Even without Narain holding him up I think Hamilton passing him would be just a matter of time.. once Ham got into the DRS zone the car was just sitting duck. Nevertheless still a good race, at least he manages to extend the gap to Alonso. All the best for Brazil!

#3137 STRFerrari4Ever

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 21:00

Backmarkers cost him a lot of time which resulted in Hamilton getting past but at least he gained 3 points.

Not ideal but 1 race remaining and we can do this, we will do this!!!

#3138 superdelphinus

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 21:03

Great race from vettel I thought. The margins were so tight between the pair it was always going to be a scrap of luck somewhere along the line that settled it

#3139 sv401

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 21:06

Even without Narain holding him up I think Hamilton passing him would be just a matter of time..


I think without the HRT it would have been possible to defend the lead, as it took away exactly those few tenths that made the difference between being overtaken or not. Normally, Hamilton could not get closer than about 0.7s before the DRS zone, and that was probably also limited by the loss of downforce in the fast corners. Also, the McLaren was relatively the fastest in the middle of the stints, towards the end the advantage shifted towards the Red Bull which wore the tyres less.

Webber retiring with an alternator failure is very worrying, it is the first time the allegedly "fixed" 2012 spec Renault alternators are back in the car, and there is a failure immediately. :rolleyes: This makes the second "cucumber" incident of the year even more annoying, as with a 20 points gap an alternator failure in Brazil would be affordable if Alonso does not win.

Edited by sv401, 18 November 2012 - 21:10.


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#3140 pUs

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 21:09

Solid race by Vettel. Despite not winning it, he still took a step closer towards a third title.

#3141 Sakae

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 21:10

Seb needs only P4 (12 points) at worst next race, and he will win WDC on greater number of wins per season (should Alonso win last race).

#3142 study

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 21:11

Backmarkers cost him a lot of time which resulted in Hamilton getting past but at least he gained 3 points.

Not ideal but 1 race remaining and we can do this, we will do this!!!


that works both ways, lewis lost seconds behind Vettel aswell when he was trying to catch him.

#3143 plumtree

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 21:13

It's really frustrating that all the crazy defense throughout the first 2/3 race was thrown away in that way. :-/ Well, great performance from both Seb and Lew nonetheless.

At least the (meaningless) fastest lap at the end brought me a little smile at the end. :)

#3144 jk

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 21:15

Great performance from Seb. Very impressive to keep Hamilton behind for so long with all the championship pressure on. Clutch drive but unfortunately not rewared. Sickening that Alonso is outraced by 30 seconds and only drops 3 points.
Lets hope that the McLarens keep flying and that the Red Bull stays reliable.

#3145 sv401

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 21:15

that works both ways, lewis lost seconds behind Vettel aswell when he was trying to catch him.


It is true, but then he caught up again, and the blocking only needs to happen once in the favor of the attacking driver when he is close enough.

#3146 choyothe

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 21:16

I think without the HRT it would have been possible to defend the lead, as it took away exactly those few tenths that made the difference between being overtaken or not. Normally, Hamilton could not get closer than about 0.7s before the DRS zone, and that was probably also limited by the loss of downforce in the fast corners. Also, the McLaren was relatively the fastest in the middle of the stints, towards the end the advantage shifted towards the Red Bull which wore the tyres less.

Webber retiring with an alternator failure is very worrying, it is the first time the allegedly "fixed" 2012 spec Renault alternators are back in the car, and there is a failure immediately. :rolleyes: This makes the second "cucumber" incident of the year even more annoying, as with a 20 points gap an alternator failure in Brazil would be affordable if Alonso does not win.


Great post, I agree on both points. This race could've been so much better, the possibility of a title win was ended with the Massa-gearbox change ( :rolleyes: ), but 13 points and Webber with the alternator is quite worrying.

#3147 prty

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 21:17

He got from pole as usual, but the chaser had a similar car this time, and he wasn't able to keep him behind.
That said, I think in this race he drove better than in Abu Dhabi.

#3148 choyothe

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 21:21

BTW, why is it always Karthikeyan getting in Seb's way and causing trouble to him? :lol: :mad:

#3149 sharo

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 21:29

BTW, why is it always Karthikeyan getting in Seb's way and causing trouble to him? :lol: :mad:

The question is why they were allowed to participate at all.

I am biased, but I think the battle for the lead should be without DRS.

#3150 fatd

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 21:34

The biggest worry for next race is reliability actually... we already saw one in Webber's car today. RB + Renault should make sure that won't happen in Brazil.