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Sebastian Vettel Thread Part II


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#3151 apoka

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 21:53

The biggest worry for next race is reliability actually... we already saw one in Webber's car today. RB + Renault should make sure that won't happen in Brazil.

The second biggest worry is rain. Ferrari were strong this season in mixed conditions (not to mention that everything can happen when it rains).

Vettel probably cannot afford a DNF as Alonso is very likely to finish on the podium in that case. I really would have liked to have the 16 points gap (without Webber retiring).


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#3152 Mr.Wayne

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 21:56

The second biggest worry is rain. Ferrari were strong this season in mixed conditions (not to mention that everything can happen when it rains).

Vettel probably cannot afford a DNF as Alonso is very likely to finish on the podium in that case. I really would have liked to have the 16 points gap (without Webber retiring).

I actually suspect Alonso is going to take it: It is going to rain, he is going to win the race, and the alternator is going to fail. It will hurt even more if the alternator fails while Sebastian is ahead of Fernando, but hey! That is just the way Alonso won his previous two titles so, why not the third one as well?

#3153 Ricardo F1

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 21:58

The question is why they were allowed to participate at all.

I am biased, but I think the battle for the lead should be without DRS.

They both have it. Had it been Vettel passing Hamilton I suspect a point of view change.

Vettel drove great today, the cars were about as even as you can get - nothing at all between them. One piece of traffic allowed one chance for Hamilton and he took it ; cowboy hats off to him surely?


#3154 zeph

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 22:18

Vettel drove flawlessly today, but Hamilton was on some whole next level s--t. I don't think anybody could have stopped him.


#3155 Crossmax

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 22:25

The damned alternators... How can Renault be so poor? I mean seriously, how hard can it be? To me, it's simply incomprehensible how they can keep failing like that. I'm not going to have a very peaceful week I fear, and even less so when the race gets under way. :down:

Edited by Crossmax, 18 November 2012 - 22:26.


#3156 zeph

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 22:29

The damned alternators... How can Renault be so poor? I mean seriously, how hard can it be? To me, it's simply incomprehensible how they can keep failing like that. I'm not going to have a very peaceful week I fear, and even less so when the race gets under way. :down:


I doubt it really is Renault. It doesn't seem to fail on the Lotus. Possibly something not playing nicely with RBR's aero.




#3157 joshb

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 22:30

Great performance from Seb. Very impressive to keep Hamilton behind for so long with all the championship pressure on. Clutch drive but unfortunately not rewared. Sickening that Alonso is outraced by 30 seconds and only drops 3 points.
Lets hope that the McLarens keep flying and that the Red Bull stays reliable.


That was the thing- Alonso totally outclassed by Massa, but thanks to Ferrari's tactics and a good start and Webber's DNF- he inherits 3rd, despite being barely in the same postcod as Seb and Lewis.
Really am on tenterhooks about reliability in Brazil. It can go in a heartbeat and I expect Alonso to do his bit and get a podium, thus ensuring Seb needs to finish

#3158 LiJu914

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 22:31

I doubt it really is Renault. It doesn't seem to fail on the Lotus. Possibly something not playing nicely with RBR's aero.


Well at least it did in Valencia.

#3159 zeph

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 22:34

Really, my gut feeling says had they switched cars Vettel would have won with a very big margin, and there would be complaint about him winning with a rocketship. That mclaren had so much more grip it was incredible. In sector 1 it was planted, just as Henson could overtake where ever he wanted



Bullocks. There was nothing between the two cars today in terms of speed. Vettels' fastest lap demonstrates that. McLaren had the edge in top speed on the straights, but you could clearly see the RBR pull away out of the bends.

Hamilton kept the pressure on and waited for the opportunity. When it came he didn't hesitate and executed a textbook overtake. What more can you ask for? Vettel's reaction was not classy, but understandable and no big deal. He drove flawlessly but today it was Hamilton's turn.



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#3160 choyothe

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 22:42

Really, my gut feeling says had they switched cars Vettel would have won with a very big margin, and there would be complaint about him winning with a rocketship. That mclaren had so much more grip it was incredible. In sector 1 it was planted, just as Henson could overtake where ever he wanted


I agree, the way Hamilton was able to throw it into the corners in S1 and reduce the gap to Vettel even on the dirty air was incredible. Vettel tried the same the one time he was quite close and maybe getting to the DRS, instantly had a moment and lost 4 tenths.

#3161 ThomFi

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 23:04

I doubt it really is Renault. It doesn't seem to fail on the Lotus. Possibly something not playing nicely with RBR's aero.


In Monza, d'Ambrosio's Lotus had alternator problems too and the alternator even failed in a Renault R30 from 2010 used by Pirelli for a tyre test run at Barcelona this year.
And the supplier of the alternators is Magneti Marelli, so it's not Renaults fault anyway.


#3162 undersquare

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 23:13

Really, my gut feeling says had they switched cars Vettel would have won with a very big margin, and there would be complaint about him winning with a rocketship. That mclaren had so much more grip it was incredible. In sector 1 it was planted, just as Henson could overtake where ever he wanted

My gut feeling is that Lewis set his car up better for the esses and drove better lines.

Also Sebi should have had a penalty for his super dangerous second move when he was being passed.

#3163 hello86

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 23:14

Seb drove a great race! Compare his times to useless Webber (I do really wonder why he is still at RB ... maybe coz he didn´t cost them a championship so far). I think the Macca was the fastest car today!

#3164 Skinnyguy

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 23:16

Brilliant performance. Man of the weekend over Lewis and Massa. He snatched pole and the lead for 3/4 of the race against a superior car. He only sucumbed because of traffic. Was wise enough to not try anything stupid and just kept driving fast. Not spectacular maybe, but really hard to do.

#3165 choyothe

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 23:21

My gut feeling is that Lewis set his car up better for the esses and drove better lines.

Also Sebi should have had a penalty for his super dangerous second move when he was being passed.


You mean he had a car that was able to take better lines?

I agree to your 2nd point as much as I think Hamilton should get a penalty for his super dangerous move in cutting across Vettel to the inside after he had moved in front.

#3166 Ricardo F1

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 23:21

:rotfl:

#3167 LiJu914

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 23:23

Seb drove a great race! Compare his times to useless Webber (I do really wonder why he is still at RB ... maybe coz he didn´t cost them a championship so far). I think the Macca was the fastest car today!


Webber did okay. Lost as expected after quali = round about half a second a lap.
I doubt that even in clean air Button would´ve been much better compared to his teammate.

#3168 cooper

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 23:27

It is true, but then he caught up again, and the blocking only needs to happen once in the favor of the attacking driver when he is close enough.

True, but once Lewis got past he also lost time with backmarkers but Vettel was unable to retake the position that Hamilton took. They both drove superb races, to both be 32 seconds ahead is in a totally different league. Lewis at the end of the day was able to do the job but they were incredibly evenly matched!

#3169 Afterburner

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 23:38

I dunno if I'm going to be able to watch Brazil... anything that can go wrong usually will when Alonso is your opponent, so the only plus is that there's a good chance the best Alonso will be able to do next weekend will be the podium.

13 points. Make every one of them count next weekend.

#3170 bourbon

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 01:07

Fantastic race by Seb!! He played it very smart because Narian would have probably taken him out if he'd of tried a tricky pass. He wasn't happy about it, but he did the right thing. Good pass by Lewis and great win. Just like when Lewis was behind, Vettel couldn't defeat the gap and they never got Narian again. The Red Bull celebration was sweet, and everyone looked thrilled to have taken the 3rd title. What a race!

It was a great weekend to be a part of. :up: Now as Seb has said, time to look forward to Brazil! Onward and upward! Let's do it!

Edited by bourbon, 19 November 2012 - 01:35.


#3171 alg7_munif

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 02:11

That was the thing- Alonso totally outclassed by Massa, but thanks to Ferrari's tactics and a good start and Webber's DNF- he inherits 3rd, despite being barely in the same postcod as Seb and Lewis.
Really am on tenterhooks about reliability in Brazil. It can go in a heartbeat and I expect Alonso to do his bit and get a podium, thus ensuring Seb needs to finish

You could also say along the same line about Vettel's result in Abu Dhabi, safety cars and the tactics to change his setup allowed him to end up there.

#3172 mnmracer

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 02:20

You could also say along the same line about Vettel's result in Abu Dhabi, safety cars and the tactics to change his setup allowed him to end up there.


Going by the most wrongly mentioned 'lucks', let's break it down:

Vettel was lucky to start from the pitlane and set his car up for the race
Well, first of all, if starting from the pitlane with a race set-up is beneficial, then why don't they just qualify with a race set-up. Even qualifying 24th with race set-up (if it would be so slow in qualifying) is better than starting from the pitlane.

The fastest way around the circuit (for the Red Bull) is with a high-downforce set-up. That is why they always choose the high-downforce set-up. Agree?
Having a high downforce set-up, means that you’re slower than other cars on the straight, and faster than other cars in the corners. Agree?
Having a car 12kph slower on the straight means that it’s significantly more difficult to overtake other cars. Agree?
Having a high-downforce set-up means that you’re faster than other cars in corners. Agree?
Since you can’t overtake in corners, it means you have to adjust your speed to the car in front of you, since you can’t drive through him. Agree?
So having the fastest set-up means that at best you’re only as fast as the car in front in the corners, and slower on the straight. Agree?
So the only way to have any chance of not losing massive amounts of time behind a car your car is incapable of overtaking, is by going for a low-downforce set-up. Agree?

But as we’ve already established, the fastest way around the track in a Red Bull is with a high-downforce set-up. Remember?

So you either
- have a car that slows you down because you’re stuck behind a car that is faster at the only place you can overtake
or
- you have a car that allows you to pass the car slowing you down, but is slower overall because of the set-up.

For most other cars, the compromise between being able to race with others, and being fast over a lap, is minimal. Their fastest lap set-up still allows for a straight-line speed that makes overtaking possible. Red Bull in the meantime has a top-speed that is bettered by the HRT and Marussia’s. That’s why Hamilton did not need to change his set-up in Spain: with his fastest lap set-up, he was 5th in the speed trap. With Vettel’s fastest lap set-up, he is 24th in the speed trap.

Vettel was lucky with the first safety car, as it closed the gap
Without the first safety car, he would not have been behind a swerving Ricciardo, and he would not have sustained the front wing damage that forced him in (in the Senna event, he lost no speed).

By the time he was back in p13 where he was before the safety car, the gap to the leaders was the same as before, so he gained no net time.

Vettel was lucky with the first safety car, as it put him on fresher tires
First of all, if a two-stopper was beneficial, they would have gone with that.
Vettel was matching Kimi's speed, while he was on hard tires, so there was no need for him to get fresh or soft tires if not for the wing damage made possible by the safety car.

Vettel was lucky to have people crash into eachother
The only people 'crashing into eachother' were Rosberg and Hülkenberg at the start, and Massa spinning with Webber.
Considering he made short work of the other Mercedes' and Force India, there is little doubt he would have had trouble with them. Maybe Massa would have given him some trouble, but considering Webber's relative pace, it's unlikely.

Vettel was lucky he only needed to overtake backmarkers
First of all, Vettel did 20 on-track overtakes. There are not that many backmarkers.
Among those he overtook were: Senna, Grosjean, di Resta, Schumacher and Button.

Sum up
Vettel's misfortune:
- missing FP3
- faulty fuel system
- having to switch to a set-up that lead to slower lap times
- incident with Ricciardo (pit stop and ruined strategy)

Vettel's luck:
- Getting closer to Button with the second safety car

CONCLUDING
Ignoring time lost in FP3, if Vettel had started on p3, he would have been in p2 after the first corner. Considering his race pace was matching Kimi on a set-up that was not beneficial to fastest time around the track, it's safe to assume he would have comfortably stayed ahead of Kimi. Compare that to running a non-beneficial set-up, having to plow through the field twice, and having your strategy set back, the only way you can claim Vettel was lucky is if you ignore what actually happened.


#3173 Kvothe

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 02:37

Seb drove a great race! Compare his times to useless Webber (I do really wonder why he is still at RB ... maybe coz he didn´t cost them a championship so far). I think the Macca was the fastest car today!


http://planetf1.com/...ress-conference

so it didn't really matter what I was doing and after that, I was obviously not too happy, because on all the laps before I tried to manage the gap to him, tried to manage the tyres until the end of the race, to be able to attack towards the last couple of laps. We had, I think, something like 20 laps, 15 laps to go at the time. It was not targeted at Lewis, it was more targeted at the backmarker which, as I said, gave a nice big envelope with an invitation to Lewis.




#3174 Bruce

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 02:39

- Getting closer to Button with the second safety car

CONCLUDING
Ignoring time lost in FP3, if Vettel had started on p3, he would have been in p2 after the first corner. Considering his race pace was matching Kimi on a set-up that was not beneficial to fastest time around the track, it's safe to assume he would have comfortably stayed ahead of Kimi. Compare that to running a non-beneficial set-up, having to plow through the field twice, and having your strategy set back, the only way you can claim Vettel was lucky is if you ignore what actually happened.


Shall we discuss the "luck" of having the fastest car on the grid then? Vettel has been solid and has had a good season, but he's leading the championship due to a push that Red Bull made - and good on them. But let's not pretend that Sebastian suddenly remembered how to drive in Singapore...

#3175 Kvothe

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 02:41

P.S.

Loved this little bit of banter also:

http://planetf1.com/...ress-conference

SV: He said earlier he... and I saw him exchanging phone numbers with the girls on the podium. He said earlier we'll have a good time tonight!

LH: I think it was the other way around actually! He stayed behind. That's why we were late here.

SV: He was first, you know, not just in the race but also picking up the girls.



#3176 StefanArak

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 02:57

Brilliant performance. Man of the weekend over Lewis and Massa. He snatched pole and the lead for 3/4 of the race against a superior car. He only sucumbed because of traffic. Was wise enough to not try anything stupid and just kept driving fast. Not spectacular maybe, but really hard to do.


I know! It's incredible how he just managed to snatch P1 in FP1, FP2, FP3, Q1, Q2, and Q3! Simply incredible!

#3177 bourbon

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 03:05

He was amazing all weekend. On top of all of that, he was also the driver signing the most autographs and talking to fans well past the alloted time limit. He was serious when he said he recalled what it was like to be a fan and tries to live up to his old expectations, because he does everything the organizers tell the fans he will not do (pictures, multiple autographs, hold my baby, etc.) A really amazing dude. Then he goes and performs like the wind. He drove brilliantly all weekend long. The fact that we got an actual race this round is great, Lewis got the advantage in the end - and a great win - but that does not detract from Seb's overall performance which was master class. And yes, Lewis also, but this is not his thread, lol.

#3178 mnmracer

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 04:36

Shall we discuss the "luck" of having the fastest car on the grid then? Vettel has been solid and has had a good season, but he's leading the championship due to a push that Red Bull made - and good on them. But let's not pretend that Sebastian suddenly remembered how to drive in Singapore...

Shall we discuss the "luck" of having a bulletproof car then?
I know it's hard to discredit Vettel without applying a double standard, but don't lower yourself to such levels.
And trying to argue the fastest car-card in Abu Dhabi is really a bad place to do so...

#3179 Kelateboy

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 05:12

Fantastic race by Seb!! He played it very smart because Narian would have probably taken him out if he'd of tried a tricky pass. He wasn't happy about it, but he did the right thing. Good pass by Lewis and great win. Just like when Lewis was behind, Vettel couldn't defeat the gap and they never got Narian again. The Red Bull celebration was sweet, and everyone looked thrilled to have taken the 3rd title. What a race!

It was a great weekend to be a part of. :up: Now as Seb has said, time to look forward to Brazil! Onward and upward! Let's do it!

I thought we would see a temper tantrum by Sebastian as he got out of his car after the race. But surprisingly, he was looking quite happy with his 2nd place.

A great race by Vettel and he did not put a foot wrong the whole weekend. Tough losing the race (and some valuable points) because of the Cucumber yet again.

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#3180 joshb

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 05:47

I thought we would see a temper tantrum by Sebastian as he got out of his car after the race. But surprisingly, he was looking quite happy with his 2nd place.

A great race by Vettel and he did not put a foot wrong the whole weekend. Tough losing the race (and some valuable points) because of the Cucumber yet again.


yes, people will use an edited FOM radio broadcast to assume he was throwing the toys out of the pram forgeting on the slow down lap he clapped at Hamilton was he passed him on the start straight.
Don't have any problem with Karthikeyan ,it was just unfortunate he came across him at the wrong part of the track. Had he been half a second further back before those corners, he may have got away with it.


#3181 apoka

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 06:29

yes, people will use an edited FOM radio broadcast to assume he was throwing the toys out of the pram forgeting on the slow down lap he clapped at Hamilton was he passed him on the start straight.
Don't have any problem with Karthikeyan ,it was just unfortunate he came across him at the wrong part of the track. Had he been half a second further back before those corners, he may have got away with it.

All in all, those HRTs have quite a significant influence on races as we have seen with Vettel, Button and others this season.

But complaining doesn't help. Vettel had a great weekend all things considered and we need to look forward to the next race in 6 days and probably do some pro-reliability and anti-rain-dance ...

It's an 80% WDC chance for Vettel and 20% for Alonso now.


#3182 ForzaGTR

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 08:15

My gut feeling is Seb will be crowned champ in Brazil, however as a Hamilton fan I understand the nerves you lot have right now. Brazil is one of those tracks where anything could happen, especially if it rains.

Lewis and Button could well do Seb a huge favour and split the Ferrari's and Red Bull's, I think that's quite likely. Seb just needs to stick it on the front row and keep himself out of trouble. Alonso is the driver that will need to be more aggressive and take risks.

#3183 DarthWillie

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 09:21

My gut feeling is that Lewis set his car up better for the esses and drove better lines.


A strong case could be made, when the track was low on grip (fp1 till fp3) the driver was more important and Seb was the quickest around. Once the track got rubbered in the McLaren rocketship took over, but that usually only works if Vettel wins :rotfl:

#3184 LiJu914

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 09:43

My gut feeling is Seb will be crowned champ in Brazil, however as a Hamilton fan I understand the nerves you lot have right now. Brazil is one of those tracks where anything could happen, especially if it rains.

Lewis and Button could well do Seb a huge favour and split the Ferrari's and Red Bull's, I think that's quite likely. Seb just needs to stick it on the front row and keep himself out of trouble. Alonso is the driver that will need to be more aggressive and take risks.


After yet another alternator went up, i think that´s the biggest concern.
Both drivers did well this season and deserve to be WDC (even though i think Nando was better due to his brilliant first half of the season). So i´m basically happy with any outcome, but i definitely don´t want to see the wdc decided by a tech-related retirement in the last race.

Edited by LiJu914, 19 November 2012 - 09:45.


#3185 H2H

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 09:44

Fantastic race by Seb!! He played it very smart because Narian would have probably taken him out if he'd of tried a tricky pass. He wasn't happy about it, but he did the right thing. Good pass by Lewis and great win. Just like when Lewis was behind, Vettel couldn't defeat the gap and they never got Narian again. The Red Bull celebration was sweet, and everyone looked thrilled to have taken the 3rd title. What a race!

It was a great weekend to be a part of. :up: Now as Seb has said, time to look forward to Brazil! Onward and upward! Let's do it!


Certainly Narain potentially cost him another 7 points after the 12 points tyre slicer. Quite an impact by a backmarker.

Anyway it was a fine race lost aganst a superior McLaren with fine driver behind the wheel which he kept as long behind as Mr. Narain didn't step into the scene and disrupted the fine balance.

His behavior was first-class and graceful. Respect.



#3186 skidmarks

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 09:47

It's too easy to rip into Vettel for his latest outburst on the radio. On one hand he needs to realise that going through the backmarkers is something all the drivers have to do, and that not all places on the track make it easy for a backmarker to move over. On the other hand, I can understand Vettel's frustration. He really needed the win to make his third, very hard fought for, title an almost certainty.



#3187 Raifosa

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 09:58

yes, people will use an edited FOM radio broadcast to assume he was throwing the toys out of the pram forgeting on the slow down lap he clapped at Hamilton was he passed him on the start straight.
Don't have any problem with Karthikeyan ,it was just unfortunate he came across him at the wrong part of the track. Had he been half a second further back before those corners, he may have got away with it.

Saw that. Makes me like the kid even more.
As for his reaction, I think 4 out of the other 5 WDCs would have reacted pretty similar to Seb in a similar situation.


#3188 sosidge

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 09:59

Textbook defensive drive from Vettel, not only using his KERS at the start of the straight to minimise Hamilton's DRS advantage, but also taking a wide entry and late apex to maximise traction. Unfortunate that the backmarker turned his small gap through the esses into no gap, but that's racing. I don't think there should be any disappointment in finishing second, but that wily old fox Alonso once again managed to turn a poor grid position into a podium. As racing fans, we all want to see the championship go down to the wire, lets just hope it is decided on the track.

#3189 fatd

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 10:15

Saw that. Makes me like the kid even more.
As for his reaction, I think 4 out of the other 5 WDCs would have reacted pretty similar to Seb in a similar situation.


Who's the exception? I'm gonna take a guess... Kimi surely?;)

#3190 Kelateboy

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 10:16

Is it possible that Webber used the 2012 alternator which failed on Vettel 3 times in Monza (twice) and Valencia, on Grosjean in Valencia and on during the Pirelli's tyre testing in Barcelona?

A report in Autosport a few weeks ago stated that Red Bull will be running out of 2011 alternators and might have to use the 2012 batches by USGP.

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/103710

#3191 Zava

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 10:18

Is it possible that Webber used the 2012 alternator which failed on Vettel 3 times in Monza (twice) and Valencia, on Grosjean in Valencia and on during the Pirelli's tyre testing in Barcelona?

A report in Autosport a few weeks ago stated that Red Bull will be running out of 2011 alternators and might have to use the 2012 batches by USGP.

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/103710

nope
http://www.autosport...t.php/id/104395

Although engine partner Renault has been trialling new specification alternators in Austin this weekend with its other teams, Red Bull elected to stick with the older versions that had previously proved trouble-free.




#3192 Raifosa

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 10:30

Who's the exception? I'm gonna take a guess... Kimi surely?;)

For sure ... 'that's racing' ;)

#3193 sv401

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 10:43

True, but once Lewis got past he also lost time with backmarkers but Vettel was unable to retake the position that Hamilton took.


He would never have been able to take back the position with the Red Bull's top speed deficit. With the DRS open, it can barely keep up with the McLaren's non-DRS speed, while when it is the other way around, the McLaren is faster by at least 15 kph or so (the same is true if you substitute Ferrari for McLaren, too). It has been seen many times throughout the season. In case you suggest that Red Bull should have used a setup with higher top speed, note that the overall lap time would have been compromised then, not unlikely giving the pole position to Hamilton, and the whole position fight would not have materialized in the first place. The RB8 is simply not very efficient aerodynamically at high speeds. Also, because of the fact that Hamilton/McLaren was clearly faster in S1, it would have been very difficult to get close enough before the DRS zone.
To summarize, as soon as Hamilton had the better track position, the game was over. The only way for a Vettel win after that would have been a major tyre drop-off, a driving mistake by Hamilton, or a McLaren mechanical failure, and none of those happened.

Edited by sv401, 19 November 2012 - 10:45.


#3194 paulrobs

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 10:48

Great drive by Vettel yesterday and if he wins the championship next weekend he will deserve it. I would however remain a lttle uneasy about the fact that he appears to get preferential treatment over Webber and that he has probably driven the best car during those three championships but that's what being a top driver is all about - beating your teammate, putting yourself in the best possible position wthin a team and driving for the best team.

Vettel is way better than I first thought he would be though and I take my hat off to the guy, he is one hell of a driver and who knows what his record will be like when he retires.

#3195 apoka

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 11:36

My gut feeling is Seb will be crowned champ in Brazil, however as a Hamilton fan I understand the nerves you lot have right now. Brazil is one of those tracks where anything could happen, especially if it rains.

Yes, I can easily see Vettel leading the race with Alonso in P4 and then the alternator fails with a few laps to go ...

Or a crazy mixed condition race with the Ferraris having good pace and winning whereas the RBs struggle to get points.

Well, I hope for dry weather and a really boring processional race. :p The forecast says rain on Saturday and Sunday, but that can still change.


#3196 choyothe

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 11:40

yes, people will use an edited FOM radio broadcast to assume he was throwing the toys out of the pram forgeting on the slow down lap he clapped at Hamilton was he passed him on the start straight.
Don't have any problem with Karthikeyan ,it was just unfortunate he came across him at the wrong part of the track. Had he been half a second further back before those corners, he may have got away with it.


That must be the most bitter way to lose the win for Vettel himself, to get passed because of a backmarker holding him up in just the wrong place, instead of him making a mistake or Hamilton just passing him on his own and sailing to win by 10 seconds. I've noticed this is what bothers him more than anything, he handles his own mistakes and technical problems well but when something external to him or his car/team makes him falter it
annoys him to say the least.

Absolutely massive for the championship as well considering Alonso would've needed to win in Brazil to have any chance, now he just needs 4th and Vettel's alternator to make him one more favor. ):

Edited by choyothe, 19 November 2012 - 11:42.


#3197 choyothe

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 11:55

1 more to the tally of RB's pathetic straightline speed not allowing Vettel to fight; again he was passed before even arriving to the braking zone, with Hamilton over half a second behind into the straight. Even if Newey says that setup is the fastest way around the track I'm not sure about it being overall net positive in quali + race, everything just becomes exponentially harder because of that.

#3198 Sakae

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 12:08

1 more to the tally of RB's pathetic straightline speed not allowing Vettel to fight; again he was passed before even arriving to the braking zone, with Hamilton over half a second behind into the straight. Even if Newey says that setup is the fastest way around the track I'm not sure about it being overall net positive in quali + race, everything just becomes exponentially harder because of that.

I think what Newey meant, that there is a trade-off, between straight-line speed, and getting through twisty parts of the track, because time gained in straight line is significantly less, than time that is lost elsewhere due to such set-up. This is why others do not understand from where the speed is coming from, since Seb is having that part consistently under control. On down side, he cannot allow faster car to catch with him in DRS zone because he has no car beneath him to fight it, which, unfortunately, was the case yesterday, as we have seen.

Edited by Sakae, 19 November 2012 - 12:09.


#3199 dau

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 12:16

True, but once Lewis got past he also lost time with backmarkers but Vettel was unable to retake the position that Hamilton took. [...]

Not nearly as much as Vettel lost behind Karthikeyan. The lap he was overtaken in was a 1:42.746. The laps before and after that were a 1:40.850 and a 1:40.677, so he lost about 2s there. I wouldn't really blame Karthikeyan though, he couldn't really go anywhere, it was just unfortunate.

Then there's the thing with the straightline speed of course. VET 308.2, HAM 314.6. So even with DRS, Vettel would have been only marginally faster then Hamilton, not enough to get past on the straight. Wouldn't call it pathetic though, RBR just sets up the car differently, with probably more downforce and shorter gearing then McL, giving them an advantage in the corners and traction zones for the price of a disadvantage on the straights.


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#3200 mattferg

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 12:16

Shall we discuss the "luck" of having the fastest car on the grid then? Vettel has been solid and has had a good season, but he's leading the championship due to a push that Red Bull made - and good on them. But let's not pretend that Sebastian suddenly remembered how to drive in Singapore...


And Alonso didn't in 2005 and 2006? Hamilton didn't in 2008? Don't pretend like drivers don't win championships in the fastest car, in the past 12 years everyone has in the fastest car.

Should we also pretend Alonso forgot how to drive after Hockenheim? Since he hasn't won since then. Vettel had podiums AND A WIN before Singapore, just as Alonso has (with podiums) after Hockenheim. Grow up.

Edited by mattferg, 19 November 2012 - 12:17.