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Sebastian Vettel Thread Part II


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#3851 Zava

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 14:06

Kuddo's to F1T user Juzh for a great video of Vettel's 2012 overtakes:


Bookmark it for any "Vettel can't overtake" discussions :cool:

the spa ones :up: :up: in the bus stop he was phenomenal. inside, outside, on the entry, on the exit, side by side until the entry of the pit straight... very underrated drive.

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#3852 SpaMaster

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 14:58

You should double-check your definition of DRS and backmarkers ;-)

Talk about being bitter! DRS and backmarkers! tsk, tsk..

#3853 joshb

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 15:32

Kuddo's to F1T user Juzh for a great video of Vettel's 2012 overtakes:


Bookmark it for any "Vettel can't overtake" discussions :cool:


only 4 minutes... missed a lot out then...

pity they missed out him nailing Kimi round the outside in China to briefly take 2nd and the cheeky one on Rosberg at Turn 9 in Spain but apart from that, a sound selection. The one on Rosberg had to be in there.

Edited by joshb, 25 December 2012 - 15:34.


#3854 mnmracer

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 19:55

Talk about being bitter! DRS and backmarkers! tsk, tsk..

What are you on about?

#3855 SpaMaster

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 14:41

What are you on about?

I meant about the post you replied to, not you.;)

Edited by SpaMaster, 26 December 2012 - 14:42.


#3856 Zava

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 16:51

Vettel voted best european sportsman of the year! :up:

1. Sebastian Vettel (german, Forma-1) 137 points
2. Bradley Wiggins (british, cycling) 130
3. Mohamed Farah (british, athletics) 126
4. Novak Djokovic (serbian, tennis) 108
5. Andres Iniesta (spanish, football) 103
6. Andy Murray (british, tennis) 67
7. Cristiano Ronaldo (portuguese, football) 66
8. Ranomi Kromowidjojo (dutch, swimming) 55
9. Roger Federer (swiss, tennis) 50
10. Sebatien Loeb (french, rally) 47

#3857 olliek88

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 17:23

Vettel voted best european sportsman of the year! :up:

1. Sebastian Vettel (german, Forma-1) 137 points
2. Bradley Wiggins (british, cycling) 130
3. Mohamed Farah (british, athletics) 126
4. Novak Djokovic (serbian, tennis) 108
5. Andres Iniesta (spanish, football) 103
6. Andy Murray (british, tennis) 67
7. Cristiano Ronaldo (portuguese, football) 66
8. Ranomi Kromowidjojo (dutch, swimming) 55
9. Roger Federer (swiss, tennis) 50
10. Sebatien Loeb (french, rally) 47


By who? Germans?

What Wiggins has achieved this year is incredible and he has to be one of, if not the, sportsmen of the year, in the world. Seriously.

1st - Tour de France
1st - Paris–Nice
1st - Tour de Romandie
1st - Critérium du Dauphiné
(The only man in history to win all the above four in the same season)
Gold in the road time trial at the Olympics, the first man to win both Olympic gold and the Tour De France in the same year.

Anyway, thats O/T.



#3858 bourbon

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 17:28

Congratulations Sebastian on being voted European Sportsman of the Year!

In it's 55th pole, Reporters from 26 news agencies voted Sebastian #1 in its pretigious list of entries. WTG Seb :up:!! :D

Click Here For Story

Edited by bourbon, 26 December 2012 - 17:33.


#3859 scheivlak

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 18:10

Vettel voted best european sportsman of the year! :up:

1. Sebastian Vettel (german, Forma-1) 137 points
2. Bradley Wiggins (british, cycling) 130
3. Mohamed Farah (british, athletics) 126
4. Novak Djokovic (serbian, tennis) 108
5. Andres Iniesta (spanish, football) 103
6. Andy Murray (british, tennis) 67
7. Cristiano Ronaldo (portuguese, football) 66
8. Ranomi Kromowidjojo (dutch, swimming) 55
9. Roger Federer (swiss, tennis) 50
10. Sebatien Loeb (french, rally) 47

or rather sportsperson - see #8  ;)

(oddly enough the only woman on the list)

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#3860 H2H

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 18:23

or rather sportsperson - see #8 ;)

(oddly enough the only woman on the list)


Indeed. During the university I did train regularly and was asked to be part of the official team (declined due to a perceived lack of time) but I never had such troubles to get out of my pants. Once again lucky to be a man. ;)

In any case a fine award for sure. :up:

Edited by H2H, 26 December 2012 - 18:24.


#3861 encircled

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 19:29

Old tribute video I saw.

How times have changed since.

#3862 Sin

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 19:50

It was a survey by (I quote the german webpage of the Magazine "Der Spiegel")"...der polnischen Nachrichtenagentur PAP." -> The polish news agency PAP, was the 55th survey of its kind

#3863 Rikhart

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 20:10

Old tribute video I saw.

How times have changed since.


Nice find, and a good way to get the topic on, well, topic. This isn´t about cycling!

#3864 MightyMoose

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 20:46

Posts deleted, I don't mind the list of Europe sportstars..... as it does relate to SV, but discussion (and frankly libellous comments) about cycling are completely off topic.

Please return to the subject and remain faithful to it, thanks!

#3865 encircled

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 20:49

Thank you very much. :)

#3866 Sakae

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 05:33

Old tribute video I saw.

How times have changed since.

Nice video.

#3867 apoka

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 09:11

Vettel voted best european sportsman of the year! :up:

1. Sebastian Vettel (german, Forma-1) 137 points
2. Bradley Wiggins (british, cycling) 130
3. Mohamed Farah (british, athletics) 126
4. Novak Djokovic (serbian, tennis) 108
5. Andres Iniesta (spanish, football) 103
6. Andy Murray (british, tennis) 67
7. Cristiano Ronaldo (portuguese, football) 66
8. Ranomi Kromowidjojo (dutch, swimming) 55
9. Roger Federer (swiss, tennis) 50
10. Sebatien Loeb (french, rally) 47


Nice. :up:

I hope he still has time to properly prepare for next year with all those awards and press duties. One of his strenghts is in my opinion is focus on F1 without being sidetracked too much with other stuff. In the past few years, it was sometimes quite funny that there were hardly any news on Red Bull / Vettel before the start of a season in the past years, which quickly changed after the first races.


#3868 Sakae

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 11:53

Compare Vettel's and Button's styles...

Vettel is quiet, collecting trophies, while Button is giving quotes.

Vettel - We won...
Button- I won...

Portraits of those two men are emerging with clarity.

Edited by Sakae, 27 December 2012 - 11:55.


#3869 goldenboy

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 12:07

Compare Vettel's and Button's styles...

Vettel is quiet, collecting trophies, while Button is giving quotes.

Vettel - We won...
Button- I won...

Portraits of those two men are emerging with clarity.

what the hell are you on about?

#3870 OldSoldier2

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 15:19

what the hell are you on about?

Re:
Vettel - We won...
Button- I won...

F1 is a team sport. Who speaks more like a team leader?

#3871 Sin

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 15:37

Despite of the fact that Vettel is one of my favorite drivers, what you saying now is dancing on words... its the same as being annoyed about Vettel saying **** it up... even if Button said he won... I'm sure he was thinking of the team as well...

they both seem to have great personalities

#3872 Winter98

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 18:05

F1 is a team sport. Who speaks more like a team leader?


I think drivers forget this at times.

IMO, team building was MS's greatest strength as a driver. According to press releases at the time (I believe this was before his 5 WDCs in a row) during contract negotiations he demanded that every member of the Ferrari team get a raise. As well, he worked very long hours training, testing, etc.. He led by example.

On the other hand we have drivers who go around in the press saying they are almost perfect, but the team sucks, and that's why they can't win.

I think it's human nature to work that little bit harder for one of these drivers. And in a sport that is often decided by tenths of a second per lap, everyone on the team working a little bit harder can easily make the difference, in one race through the season, of two or three places. Interestingly enough, this was the difference Vettel won the championship by.

From everything I've read and seen, Vettel has a good deal of MS's team building skills. So, combined with his immense talent, its no surprise to me he has won 3 WDCs on the trot.

#3873 bourbon

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 19:22

Sebastian is a class apart. He doesn't toot his own horn or make negative comparisons between himself and his competitors; he constantly reminds that it is a team sport, even to the extent where he stood up for the entire design and mechanical personnel, when everyone was hot on declaring Newey a one man show - without delimiting Newey's contribution.

Seb is an intelligent, down to earth lad and sufficiently secure in himself that he isn't bothered by all the ridiculous comments that his collegues come up with - like Lewis' comparison of himself and Alonso to Senna and Prost, Alonso's constant remarks that he and Lewis are better than Seb last season, or the whole "I'm fighting Newey - it's the car" campaign. Seb also stands strong through Ferrari's cute little press leaks about Vettel moving teams early or their absurd challenge to his WDC a week after the fact. As a triple WDC, all of this is of course expected, but I do believe Seb has handled it extraordinarily well for one so young.

Seb once quoted another in saying that if you walk in the footprints of another, you won't leave your own marks. For this reason, it is wonderful that he is cutting his own path in F1. All the criteria people come up with for him to meet (even journos and pundits), I see as an attempt to try to mold him into the cast of other drivers, either past or present, to emulate their feats. But he has his own feats which none of them have emulated and which have created "his path in F1" (and yes, including any adrenaline or work related emotionally explosive moments, lol the entire learning curve - it is all his path). Of course there are commonalities - and Seb is smart enough to pick up on things from other drivers that serve him well. But make no mistake about it, he is his own man, doing it his own way and that way is quite simply - brilliant. :up:

Edited by bourbon, 27 December 2012 - 19:36.


#3874 Juan Kerr

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 19:31

Re:
Vettel - We won...
Button- I won...

F1 is a team sport. Who speaks more like a team leader?

No, wrong. It's Vettel's automatic use of the royal 'we' just as Mansell always uses when talking about himself as well as the team. Even when Vettel is addressing himself only as with Mansell he uses the royal 'we'

#3875 Sin

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 19:57

I agree people make a too huge topic about words, of course Vettel is a great teamplayer, but you dont see that in the use of the word we, but how much he always thanks his team and how he works with them and they are happy with him....

I really don't think Button is a bad teamplayer... so really don't know why words are brought up... words are just that... deeds are what counts

#3876 Winter98

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 20:05

I really don't think Button is a bad teamplayer...


While I love watching the races, I'm not big on following what happens in the press. I might have missed something, but in my books Button is one of the classiest drivers in F1.


#3877 Afterburner

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 20:58

I really don't think Button is a bad teamplayer... so really don't know why words are brought up... words are just that... deeds are what counts

Totally agreed. :up:

#3878 LH08WDC

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 21:55

More about Red Bull than Seb, but I thought you guys might be interested.

http://www.youtube.c...p;v=cDMVac2nuAo

#3879 rasul

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 11:45

I don't think that is true actually. Some people downplay Vettel, but he still appeared in the top 10 of at least two all time greatest ratings, he features 3 times in a row in Laureus awards and has the best votings from team principals on a 5 year average. My impression is actually that his rating has continuously improved each year. We have to acknowledge that the grid is very strong right now, so being at or near the top is quite a feat even with 3 WDCs. It takes some time for everyone to realise the level of success he had. In addition, he won against McLaren and Ferrari driver who have lots of supporters.


Actually, I think sopa is right. Illogically, Vettel seems to get more negative ratings with his every WDC. Very few sites name him "the driver of the year," going as far as putting him 4th after Ham, Alo, and Kimi. Every article about Vettel gets a ton of negative comments and only few positive. Even when he's certainly the driver of the day, he practically never gets voted as DOD.
It's getting so ridiculous that I'm starting to feel sorry for him -- and I used to hate him.
I think the only way to shut everyone up is for him to go to Alonso's--or Ham's-- team and beat him there. There's no other way. Being multiple WDC is great, but being also remembered by F1 fans as one of the greatest drivers is even better.
And of course, winning a WDC for McLaren or Ferrari gets more recognition and more supporters than winning it for RB. I bet if he won those 3 WDCs for Ferrari or Mclaren, his talent wouldn't have been nearly as downplayed as it has been. :smoking:

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#3880 apoka

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 17:12

Actually, I think sopa is right. Illogically, Vettel seems to get more negative ratings with his every WDC. Very few sites name him "the driver of the year," going as far as putting him 4th after Ham, Alo, and Kimi. Every article about Vettel gets a ton of negative comments and only few positive. Even when he's certainly the driver of the day, he practically never gets voted as DOD.
It's getting so ridiculous that I'm starting to feel sorry for him -- and I used to hate him.
I think the only way to shut everyone up is for him to go to Alonso's--or Ham's-- team and beat him there. There's no other way. Being multiple WDC is great, but being also remembered by F1 fans as one of the greatest drivers is even better.
And of course, winning a WDC for McLaren or Ferrari gets more recognition and more supporters than winning it for RB. I bet if he won those 3 WDCs for Ferrari or Mclaren, his talent wouldn't have been nearly as downplayed as it has been. :smoking:

Well, Alonso/Hamilton (and probably a few others) try to downplay his performance for a couple of years now, so it's only natural that this has some negative effect on his rating. But I still think the rating has gone up on average.

While a Vettel/Hamilton or Vettel/Alonso pairing you suggest would be extremely interesting, I think Vettel doesn't need it to prove something. Actually with every WDC and car performance becoming ever more similar, it's more Hamilton/Alonso who are more in need to prove that they are better/equal - not that I think that there is much doubt about their talent.


#3881 rasul

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 18:34

While a Vettel/Hamilton or Vettel/Alonso pairing you suggest would be extremely interesting, I think Vettel doesn't need it to prove something. Actually with every WDC and car performance becoming ever more similar, it's more Hamilton/Alonso who are more in need to prove that they are better/equal - not that I think that there is much doubt about their talent.


In an ideal world, he wouldn't need to prove anything to anyone. In an ideal world, his 3 WDCs would say it all. But as we all know, the world isn't ideal. The thing is, it's all about PR. Alonso and Hamilton are great at promoting themselves, and the fact that they are/were drivers of the big teams with huge fanbases certainly helps them. When those teams' fans vote like crazy against Vettel in one poll, it can be ignored. But when 10, 100, 1000 polls and articles "prove" that Vettel is inferior, people start believing that it must be true. As they say, if you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the "truth."

I'm a Hamilton supporter, but I have to admit that, in a way, Lewis very lucked out when he got Alonso as his teammate, because he got the opportunity to prove himself for once and all as a top driver -- and he took it, by beating a double WDC and nearly winning the title in his rookie year. Now, no matter how he's performing, there's the fact of him matching a double WDC when he was a rookie. Therefore, very few people doubt that Lewis is fast and very few think that "it's just the car." Vettel needs something like that to prove for once and all that it's him, not the car. Or, at the very least, he needs to go to a top team with a huge fanbase to get more supporters -- well, and so that Alonso wouldn't have the excuse of saying that he's fighting Newey. :rolleyes:


#3882 bourbon

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 01:50

In an ideal world, he wouldn't need to prove anything to anyone. In an ideal world, his 3 WDCs would say it all. But as we all know, the world isn't ideal. The thing is, it's all about PR. Alonso and Hamilton are great at promoting themselves, and the fact that they are/were drivers of the big teams with huge fanbases certainly helps them. When those teams' fans vote like crazy against Vettel in one poll, it can be ignored. But when 10, 100, 1000 polls and articles "prove" that Vettel is inferior, people start believing that it must be true. As they say, if you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the "truth."

I'm a Hamilton supporter, but I have to admit that, in a way, Lewis very lucked out when he got Alonso as his teammate, because he got the opportunity to prove himself for once and all as a top driver -- and he took it, by beating a double WDC and nearly winning the title in his rookie year. Now, no matter how he's performing, there's the fact of him matching a double WDC when he was a rookie. Therefore, very few people doubt that Lewis is fast and very few think that "it's just the car." Vettel needs something like that to prove for once and all that it's him, not the car. Or, at the very least, he needs to go to a top team with a huge fanbase to get more supporters -- well, and so that Alonso wouldn't have the excuse of saying that he's fighting Newey. :rolleyes:


I don't care what Alonso says.
I don't care if I am Vettel's only fan.
I don't care if Hamilton, Alonso, and their fans - or any other driver and his fans - think they are the better driver.
I don't care if they say Newey is the one the other drivers think they are fighting.
I don't care if Hamilton and Alonso can boast that they have driven one another - and Hamilton can declare he won, and Alonso can (falsely) declare he didn't lose.
I don't care if they repeat lies about Vettel until their fans, and even journos/pundits start repeating it for clicks and some begin to believe it.
I don't care if they say the RB cars are all illegal and RBR cheats.
I don't care if they say Vettel has not had a competitive teammate, a lousy car or started off pole.
I don't care if Vettel is not the darling of the polls.

Then What Do I Care About? Well it is simple - that which all the things they say and think cannot change:

Posted Image


3 baby!

See ya at the races! :up:

Edited by bourbon, 29 December 2012 - 01:55.


#3883 gillesthegenius

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 06:34

I don't care what Alonso says.
I don't care if I am Vettel's only fan.
I don't care if Hamilton, Alonso, and their fans - or any other driver and his fans - think they are the better driver.
I don't care if they say Newey is the one the other drivers think they are fighting.
I don't care if Hamilton and Alonso can boast that they have driven one another - and Hamilton can declare he won, and Alonso can (falsely) declare he didn't lose.
I don't care if they repeat lies about Vettel until their fans, and even journos/pundits start repeating it for clicks and some begin to believe it.
I don't care if they say the RB cars are all illegal and RBR cheats.
I don't care if they say Vettel has not had a competitive teammate, a lousy car or started off pole.
I don't care if Vettel is not the darling of the polls.

Then What Do I Care About? Well it is simple - that which all the things they say and think cannot change:

Posted Image


3 baby!

See ya at the races! :up:


:up:

#3884 showtime

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 12:14

For not caring, you have been talking about it for pages and pages, most of the time without external input. Weird.

#3885 BenettonB192

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 12:40

I really only see Vettel downplayed in this and some other english language forums. Probably the same in the Spanish sphere. But that's not the whole picture. In Germany he's (understandibly) widely accepted now as an on par successor to Schumi. Probaly the same in more neutral F1 countries. There isn't as much hype in the media as through "Schumania" but that's only because the novelty factor is missing. Nothing to do with his driving or personality. In fact i think he's way more popular then Schumi ever was with the regular folks. Back in the day when i told people that i support Schumi a lot of people said that they don't like him, that he's a cheat and boring (in Germany mind you) wheras nowadays i mention the name Vettel and everybody says how much they like him and wish him luck. I watched F1 together with friends last season who didn't took the slightest interest in F1 during the Schumi-era.

All the bullshit talk on this forum is just a storm in a teacup. It's not a mirror of the reality.

Edited by BenettonB192, 29 December 2012 - 12:41.


#3886 showtime

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 12:49

I think the view you have of this forum opinion is not accurate. It's true Vettel has a group of haters as every driver has but most of the members rate him high. Not agreeing with you on him being the best doesn't mean he's been downplayed.

#3887 BenettonB192

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 12:53

I didn't mean to say that everyone is downlaying him. Only that when i see him downplayed it's on this forum or other english language forums.


#3888 rasul

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 13:49

That's not true. I live and work in Russian speaking countries, and Vettel is as downplayed on Russian forums as he is on English forums, if not more. He has relatively few supporters compared to Alonso, Hamilton, Kimi and Schumi. But that mostly has to do with the fact that the majority of Russian fans support either Ferrari or McLaren(and their current or past drivers); Red Bull literally has no fans at all, and those who support Red Bull support the team only because of Vettel(not vice versa). In Russia Vettel was well liked in 2008-2009 before he started winning everything against Ferrari's and McLaren's drivers. Don't get me wrong, he certainly has fans, but it's just considered not "cool" to like Vettel. :lol: Mostly because of the whole "it's the car, not Vettel" thing. Kimi's and Schumi's fans like him, though.

Edit: But Vettel is, however grudgingly, considered a top3 driver by most Russian fans. He's just not considered the best even when he kind of deserves it.

Edited by rasul, 29 December 2012 - 15:19.


#3889 H2H

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 17:00


An interesting view on the Russian world of F1. :up:

Personally I have emjoyed Sebs rise through the ranks very much and I do think that the competition has been great in the last years with many great drivers. In a way I do think that Lewis star rising just before Seb did allocate a fair share of (younger) fans in that camp. Add in great choice of other great drivers and the fact that Seb is just so long in the sport and drives for a newcomer it is in some way pretty understandable that he hasn't the biggest share of fans. Arguably his low profile, lack of glitz and glamour and general disinterest into the commercial side of F1 also reduce his media reach.

All in all I like the fact that relative few seem to support him, it makes it a bit more exclusive. If he joins a team like McLaren and Ferrari and keeps winning he will become far more popular so let us enjoy it while it lasts.  ;)

#3890 bourbon

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 20:17

For not caring, you have been talking about it for pages and pages, most of the time without external input. Weird.


I assume you are not speaking to me. I find "Vettel challenges" unreasonable and I rarely speak to them.

Vettel wins in his own way. If other drivers and their fans don't like his way of going about it, too bad.

The trick is to keep your eye on the goal:

Posted Image


Presently located on Vettel's kitchen table. :up:

Edited by bourbon, 29 December 2012 - 20:49.


#3891 STRFerrari4Ever

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 21:13

Fangio, Schumacher, Vettel

Still hasn't sunk in fully.

#3892 encircled

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 22:42

These are my top 3 (in no particular order) Sebastian's overtakes this season.

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Edited by encircled, 29 December 2012 - 22:43.


#3893 mnmracer

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 22:51

These are my top 3 (in no particular order) Sebastian's overtakes this season.

Posted Image
on Rosberg in Australia

Posted Image
on Senna in Belgium

Posted Image
on Kimi? in China?



#3894 Zava

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 23:00

the one on Webber in the bust stop was better than the Senna, probably because it had a "who's your daddy" feel :D
also the one on Button @ abu dhabi is regarded highly, even though he had DRS on the straight, it was great racing in the corners, side-by-side, Kimi style :smoking:
also, wasn't there a good one in barcelona, on Rosberg, IIRC turn 9?

#3895 bourbon

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 23:52

Rosberg in SPA... (ETA, that was 2011)

Thanks for posting, those snippets are always great fun to watch. :up:

Edited by bourbon, 30 December 2012 - 18:13.


#3896 goldenboy

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 04:00

on rosberg in aus was great, thats a tricky spot to try an overtake.

#3897 encircled

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 10:20

@mnmracer

Yes and yes.

the one on Webber in the bust stop was better than the Senna, probably because it had a "who's your daddy" feel :D
also the one on Button @ abu dhabi is regarded highly, even though he had DRS on the straight, it was great racing in the corners, side-by-side, Kimi style :smoking:
also, wasn't there a good one in barcelona, on Rosberg, IIRC turn 9?

I'm sure any driver will stop on that corner. :p

Kidding aside, well yeah, but Bruno was tricky to overtake too, he has the top speed and brakes pretty late going into the corners and Mark could not overtake him either.

As for Button, yeah, pretty neat too, and got the 2nd out of the top 5 overtakes from Ant Davidson from the Sky season review. Pretty similar to Senna actually, Seb had to brake pretty late to go side-by-side into the corner.

Yes, there's one on Rosberg in Barcelona which is pretty neat too.

@bourbon

You're welcome.

@goldenboy

Yeah, very tricky spot to overtake, with the red and yellow stripe flag to boot.

#3898 H2H

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 10:22


Nice videos and memories. :up:

#3899 Sakae

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 22:18

Happy New Year Sebastian wishing to you, your family, friends, and fans alike.
Cheers
Sakae

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#3900 bourbon

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 00:10

Happy New Year to all!