Red Bull cars [not] found to be "in breach of Article 5.5.3 of the Technical regulations" in Germany
#1
Posted 22 July 2012 - 08:21
F1Kate: Trouble ahead for Red Bull... http://t.co/ktgRsMS6
https://twitter.com/...953900710825984
Uh-oh
#3
Posted 22 July 2012 - 08:25
Red Bull reported to stewards here in Hockenheim regarding a technical issue on engine power delivery. Keep an eye on it.
from Martin Brundle on twitter.
What could this mean?
Edited by jrg19, 22 July 2012 - 08:34.
#5
Posted 22 July 2012 - 08:25
I don't really get the problem? They are allowed to use a different engine mapping than at other events if they like, not?F1Kate: Trouble ahead for Red Bull... http://t.co/ktgRsMS6
https://twitter.com/...953900710825984
Uh-oh
#6
Posted 22 July 2012 - 08:27
#8
Posted 22 July 2012 - 08:29
An FIA Technical Report on Sunday morning in Hockenheim has thrown the cat amongst the pigeons in F1 circles. The FIA Technical Delegate Jo Bauer reported that “having examinded the engine torque map of cars 1 and 2 it became apparent that the maximum torque output of both engines is significantly less in the mid rpm range than previously seen for these engines at other events”.
He went on “in my opinion this is therefore in breach of Article 5.5.3 of the Technical regulations as the engines are able to deliver more torque at a given engine speed in the mid rpm range. Furthermore this new torque map will artificially alter the aerodynamic characteristics of both cars which is also in contravention of TD 036-11.”
It is not clear what TD 036-11 is but one presumes it is a technical directive, or clarification.
Article 5.5.3 states that “The maximum accelerator pedal travel position must correspond to an engine torque demand equal to or greater than the maximum engine torque at the measured engine speed. The minimum accelerator pedal travel position must correspond to an engine torque demand equal to or lower than 0Nm.”
The FIA Stewards are now considering the matter.
#10
Posted 22 July 2012 - 08:30
There are rules governing engine, torque and throttle pedal mapping.I don't really get the problem? They are allowed to use a different engine mapping than at other events if they like, not?
Edited by Timstr11, 22 July 2012 - 08:32.
#11
Posted 22 July 2012 - 08:32
#12
Posted 22 July 2012 - 08:33
#14
Posted 22 July 2012 - 08:34
Red Bull have survived many complaints and allegations, thus far.
From Jo Bauer?
#15
Posted 22 July 2012 - 08:34
#16
Posted 22 July 2012 - 08:35
#17
Posted 22 July 2012 - 08:35
"Having examinded the engine torque map of cars 1 (Sebastian Vettel) and 2 (Mark Webber) it became apparent that the maximum torque output of both engines is significantly less in the mid rpm range than previously seen for these engines at other events.
"In my opion this is therefore in breach of Article 5.5.3 of the Technical regulations as the engines are able to deliver more torque at a given engine speed in the mid rpm range.
"Furthermore this new torque map will artificially alter the aerodynamic characteristics of both cars which is also in contravention of TD 036-11."
Article 5.5.3, in which the above refers to, states: "The maximum accelerator pedal travel position must correspond to an engine torque demand equal to or greater than the maximum engine torque at the measured engine speed.
#18
Posted 22 July 2012 - 08:36
#19
Posted 22 July 2012 - 08:37
sh*t just got real...
Guess Newey finally really crossed the line
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#20
Posted 22 July 2012 - 08:37
So, I wonder what will happen? surely they will lose their qualifying places and be put to the back at the very least.
Possible exclusion from the race ? The only way I can think that this could be made "right" is for the map to be changed in the car and inspected again to ensure it complies.
#21
Posted 22 July 2012 - 08:37
#22
Posted 22 July 2012 - 08:37
Edited by jrg19, 22 July 2012 - 08:38.
#23
Posted 22 July 2012 - 08:38
#24
Posted 22 July 2012 - 08:38
F1talks.pl
No Red Bull cars on the grid today? #F1
#25
Posted 22 July 2012 - 08:38
I don't think so.Nothing will happen, slap on the wrist and change it for the next race.
There are big possible on track gains if you can run with maps beyond what the rules allow.
They will at least lose their qualifying times and start from the back.
#26
Posted 22 July 2012 - 08:39
So, they discovered how Newey is blowing the floor/diffuser...
So, I wonder what will happen? surely they will lose their qualifying places and be put to the back at the very least.
Possible exclusion from the race ? The only way I can think that this could be made "right" is for the map to be changed in the car and inspected again to ensure it complies.
If this is a technical breach then they should be excluded. OTOH Bernie-Vettel-Germany, so probably a slap on the wrist
#27
Posted 22 July 2012 - 08:39
Maybe a storm in a tea cup? Red Bull have survived many complaints and allegations, thus far.
this is from the FIA, not the teams.
If LH was thrown to the back of the grid for underfuelling, you will think the least that should happen here is both RBs thrown to the back of the grid and the engine map changed b4 the event..... which will be a slap on the wrist.
Though this is something much more serious and should probably mean both get excluded from the event.... but with the Vettel-Bernie love and the fact that the race is in Germany, they probably don't have the balls
Edited by bauss, 22 July 2012 - 08:41.
#28
Posted 22 July 2012 - 08:39
#29
Posted 22 July 2012 - 08:39
#30
Posted 22 July 2012 - 08:39
#31
Posted 22 July 2012 - 08:40
#32
Posted 22 July 2012 - 08:40
#33
Posted 22 July 2012 - 08:40
#34
Posted 22 July 2012 - 08:42
#35
Posted 22 July 2012 - 08:42
Very helpful on a low grip wet track.As far as I can tell, what they are doing is setting the torque output from the engine differently depending on engine rpm but with the accelerator in the maximum position. And that is not allowed according to the rules. When the accelerator is in its maximum position, it must correspond to maximum torque output.
#36
Posted 22 July 2012 - 08:42
#37
Posted 22 July 2012 - 08:42
As far as I can tell, what they are doing is setting the torque output from the engine differently depending on engine rpm but with the accelerator in the maximum position. And that is not allowed according to the rules. When the accelerator is in its maximum position, it must correspond to maximum torque output.
Traction control.
#38
Posted 22 July 2012 - 08:43
this is from the FIA, not the teams.
If LH was thrown to the back of the grid for underfuelling, you will think the least that should happen here is both RBs thrown to the back of the grid and the engine map changed b4 the event.
They can change the map between races.
What probably happened is that Marko dude wanted Vettel perform at his home GP, so they tried to pull some **** off...
They will say that this is a Renault engine specific thingy (what they usually say when hot blowing comes up) and try to get away with it...
#39
Posted 22 July 2012 - 08:43
If this is a technical breach then they should be excluded. OTOH Bernie-Vettel-Germany, so probably a slap on the wrist
This. Too much at stake with Vettel taking part in race in Germany. Bernie may be burning the Phone lines to Jean Todt, even as we speak.
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#40
Posted 22 July 2012 - 08:43
#41
Posted 22 July 2012 - 08:43
I think he's been crossing the line for ages, he's just finally been caught.Guess Newey finally really crossed the line
#42
Posted 22 July 2012 - 08:43
#43
Posted 22 July 2012 - 08:44
Edited by ivand911, 22 July 2012 - 08:45.
#44
Posted 22 July 2012 - 08:44
#45
Posted 22 July 2012 - 08:44
#46
Posted 22 July 2012 - 08:44
#47
Posted 22 July 2012 - 08:45
Traction control.
Kind of, but not really. Traction control usually has a feedback and sets the torque based on wheel slip. This is just optimizing the torque based on known parameters. But something similar. And probably also related to getting a good exhaust flow on low RPM's
#48
Posted 22 July 2012 - 08:45
This. Too much at stake with Vettel taking part in race in Germany. Bernie may be burning the Phone lines to Jean Todt, even as we speak.
Vettel can start, but they will give Webber a 2 race ban to compensate ;)
#49
Posted 22 July 2012 - 08:45
it is like traction control, so it is good everywhereOK. this can be good in wet, but is is good on dry?
#50
Posted 22 July 2012 - 08:46
FIA release only mentions cars 1 and 2.is this a renault thing (means also other renault teams are involved) or is this just a RBR thing?