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Vettel move on Button


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Poll: Vettel move on Button (654 member(s) have cast votes)

Did it deserve a penalty?

  1. yes (538 votes [83.93%])

    Percentage of vote: 83.93%

  2. no (103 votes [16.07%])

    Percentage of vote: 16.07%

Vote

#1 wingwalker

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 13:39

Well, it's gonna get discussed to death anyway, so let's keep it in one thread. IMO there is no way it was a legal pass, I'd give SV 5 secs penalty. Here's waiting for what the stewards will do.

Edited by wingwalker, 22 July 2012 - 13:48.


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#2 Scotracer

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 13:39

He put the power down and decided to use the run-off.

Swap the positions back around.

#3 stanga

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 13:39

A penalty? For golden balls?



#4 sharo

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 13:40

Lewis in Bahrain precedent?

#5 slmk

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 13:40

Technically, Vettel was ahead in the braking zone and got out with his front wheels even with Jenson's sidepods. Jenson did not leave him enough room.

I'd say keep status quo.

#6 Muppetmad

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 13:40

It's a no brainer, it's a penalty. I can't see how it can be justified in any other way.

#7 discover23

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 13:40

He put the power down and decided to use the run-off.

I did notice that..

#8 grunge

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 13:40

They let them get away with it all race though..

#9 Absulute

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 13:41

It's a stonewall penalty.

Which obviously means it won't be.

#10 wingwalker

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 13:41

Lewis wan penalized for using the runoff after passing a car in France, in 2007 I think.

#11 plastik2k9

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 13:42

If there is a penalty I would hope it's minimal.

#12 ivand911

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 13:42

Lewis in Bahrain precedent?

:up:


#13 Wingcommander

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 13:42

I don't think it was legal either. But tbh i'm just tired of these modern tracks with wide tarmac run off areas. They give the drivers the chance to do things like this. Pass off the track, push like hell with no consequenses for making a mistake. That's not a race track, it's a playground.

#14 Slackbladder

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 13:42

Well, it's gonna get discussed to death anyway, so let's keep it in one thread. IMO there is no way it was a legal pass, I'd give SV 5 secs penalty. Here's waiting for what the stewards will do.


Drive thru... 20 secs it should be...

#15 Absulute

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 13:42

If there is a penalty I would hope it's minimal.


Yeah. just a drive-through.

#16 FenderJaguar

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 13:43

it's not a penalty. easy decision.

#17 Slowinfastout

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 13:43

Button didn't leave room for a car alongside him when he defended before the corner, so I think it evens out.

Also it's the German GP..

#18 BigWicks

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 13:44

I think Red Bull have no goodwill left with the stewards after this morning but who knows really.

#19 R2D2

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 13:45

Article 20.2 of the sporting regulations: "Drivers must use the track at all times...Should a car leave the track the driver may rejoin only...when it is safe to do so and without gaining an advantage."

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#20 tarmac

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 13:46

No further action

#21 wingwalker

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 13:46

poll added.

#22 slmk

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 13:47

Lewis wan penalized for using the runoff after passing a car in France, in 2007 I think.


Ironically, passing Vettel.

#23 Bartel

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 13:47

it SHOULD be a drive through same as every other incident but will it be? no. At best they will reverse the positions with a 10 second penalty or something or not even that, a reprimand which would be very unfair. Spa 08. You cannot overtake someone with all 4 wheels off the track.

#24 fisssssi

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 13:47

Penalty.

#25 slmk

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 13:47

For the sake of the championship, I hope he gets to keep the place.

#26 iotar

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 13:47

Hardly debatable. Overtake outside the track.

#27 Skellen

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 13:48

Lewis wan penalized for using the runoff after passing a car in France, in 2007 I think.

That was the first thing that came into my mind. But I think it was in 2008.

#28 KavB

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 13:49

I'm a fan but that has to be a penalty.

#29 Les

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 13:49

Clear penalty and did he have selective memory on the podium as they were clearly discussing the move after the race.

#30 Alarcon

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 13:49

Lewis did the same at bahrein over rosberg, isn´it?

If they penalised then is ok, if not... it´s easy.

They did not penalised today Lewis under the blue flags...

#31 Slackbladder

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 13:49

Clearest pentalty ever... open and shut case.

#32 Goron3

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 13:49

Button didn't leave room for a car alongside him when he defended before the corner, so I think it evens out.

Also it's the German GP..


Button was on the outside, the entire INSIDE of the track for the next corner was empty and full of space.

Also onboard shows Vettel accelerating on the outside of the track. Cheeky.

#33 baddog

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 13:49

He is going to say button pushed him wide when he was fully alongside and going faster, and he didnt gain from going wide just didnt lose from it. I frankly think it was pushing his luck a bit in this case, but on the flipside you cant allow drivers to just win every time by not leaving any space.

#34 george1981

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 13:49

Personally I'd say it deserves a penalty but we'll see.

#35 Alarcon

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 13:50

Lewis wan penalized for using the runoff after passing a car in France, in 2007 I think.



Same as in Bahrein... :drunk:

#36 wingwalker

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 13:51

That was the first thing that came into my mind. But I think it was in 2008.



You're right. This was penalized, so I would find it hard to argue in favour of Vettel here.

#37 Dalton007

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 13:51

Button didn't leave room for a car alongside him when he defended before the corner, so I think it evens out.


He left LOADS of room! Jenson doesn't push drivers off the road.

#38 jeze

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 13:51

5 sec penalty = fair

25 sec penalty = over the top

no penalty = dangerous predecent

Having thought of it for a while now. Here's hoping he at least keeps a podium.

#39 Paul Parker

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 13:51

I don't think it was legal either. But tbh i'm just tired of these modern tracks with wide tarmac run off areas. They give the drivers the chance to do things like this. Pass off the track, push like hell with no consequenses for making a mistake. That's not a race track, it's a playground.


How many times during the last third of the race did Vettel run off the track?

As for the overtake Vettel's car was completely off the track (as indeed I think Alonso was at some point) and he did gain an advantage in traction and therefore acceleration, no question.

Finally can anybody tell me what go to yellow G2 (hope I've remembered that correctly) means because as soon as Button was told this he lost pace and ultimately 2nd place.

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#40 ANF

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 13:51

If I'm not mistaken, a certain Michael Schumacher made an identical pass on Jarno Trulli in that very same corner back in 2004. And no action was taken.

#41 moorsey

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 13:51

Clear and obvious penalty. 20 second "drive through" would be the right decision.

#42 Absulute

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 13:52

A clear 'close and shut' case

#43 Lord_Shaitan

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 13:52

Penalty and any doubts about it, at least for me.

#44 Alarcon

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 13:52

5 sec penalty = fair

25 sec penalty = over the top

no penalty = dangerous predecent

Having thought of it for a while now. Here's hoping he at least keeps a podium.


He have the precedent. Bahrein 2012. Hamilton over Rosberg.


#45 Alarcon

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 13:53

Kimi did the same at Spa many times. He was his private path...

#46 e34

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 13:54

5 sec penalty = fair

25 sec penalty = over the top

no penalty = dangerous predecent

Having thought of it for a while now. Here's hoping he at least keeps a podium.


5 sec penalty = next time I'll do it again

25 sec penalty = I won't do it again ever. If I do pass on the outside, I'll give back the place and I'd keep my previous position.

#47 ANF

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 13:55

If I'm not mistaken, a certain Michael Schumacher made an identical pass on Jarno Trulli in that very same corner back in 2004. And no action was taken.

In 2003 it was.


#48 BigWicks

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 13:55

If I'm not mistaken, a certain Michael Schumacher made an identical pass on Jarno Trulli in that very same corner back in 2004. And no action was taken.


rules have changed since then...

#49 pRy

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 13:55

Vettel stood on the podium and claimed Button hadn't complained about the pass, when we all heard Button DID complain about the pass while they were getting their caps/watches on etc.

#50 SilentKiller

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 13:55

15-20 second penalty.

He wasn't even forced out by Button.