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Hamilton pass on Vettel to unlap himself.


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#1 DILLIGAF

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 17:05

Seb was obviously unimpressed with Lewis making the pass & believes it compromised his chances of attacking Alonso for the win.

"That was not nice of Lewis. I don't see why he was racing us," said Vettel. "If he wants to go fast he should drop back and find a gap. It was stupid as he was a lap down."
http://www.autosport...t.php/id/101413

Imho the pass was perfectly acceptable seeing that Hamilton was clearly quicker, what do others think?

Edited by DILLIGAF, 22 July 2012 - 17:26.


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#2 Jejking

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 17:06

Perfectly legitimate. It made my day and proved why Vettel isn't the best invention since sliced bread. His waving and being annoyed is in fact annoying.

#3 Disgrace

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 17:07

He was faster, thus legitimate.

#4 SirRacer

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 17:08

To me it was totally fair. If unlapping was not allowed, then a lapped car wouldn't be able to win a race, and to be honest, a lapped car winning the race would be brilliant, so I don't see how that can be forbidden.

Edited by SirRacer, 22 July 2012 - 17:08.


#5 Clatter

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 17:08

Nothing wrong with the pass, and he didn't hinder Vettel at all.

#6 jrg19

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 17:09

It would have been wrong if Vettel could keep up but frankly he couldn't.

#7 Jamiednm

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 17:09

If he wants to go fast he should drop back and find a gap.



Erm, what would the point of that be? Passing Vettel allowed Lewis to go faster and improve his overall race time (were he to finish).

There is no reason why a lapped car going faster than the race leaders cannot un-lap himself, and it's not as if Vettel was a second behind Alonso.

The fact that Hamilton pulled away from Vettel after the overtake justifies it.

Edited by Jamiednm, 22 July 2012 - 17:11.


#8 zk12

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 17:09

it was unusual, but in accordance with the rules.
i personally wouldnt like that to happen to me, but it was brave, very good done and legal.

#9 Towny

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 17:09

Nothing wrong with it, vettel is just being a cry baby.

#10 chrcol

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 17:11

Vettel forgets that when kubica unlapped himself in brazil 2008 it allowed him to gain points in that race.

Nothing wrong with what lewis did and in my view we shouldnt even have blue flags.

#11 joshb

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 17:12

Seb was obviously unimpressed with Lewis making the pass & believes it compromised his chances of attacking Alonso for the win.

"That was not nice of Lewis. I don't see why he was racing us," said Vettel. "If he wants to go fast he should drop back and find a gap. It was stupid as he was a lap down.

"http://www.autosport...t.php/id/101413

Imho the pass was perfectly acceptable seeing that Hamilton was clearly quicker, what do others think?


There was nothing wrong with it, as annoying as it was. If he was quicker, he should be allowed to unlap himself.

#12 seahawk

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 17:12

Correct move. Vettel was too slow.

#13 Mackey

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 17:12

I think it´s legal but can understand why Vettel is annoyed. Lewis was faster, yes, but only like .5 seconds a lap. That´s not enough IMO to interfere with a battle for the lead.

#14 Slowinfastout

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 17:14

At first glance I don't have a problem with it, but if it had gone wrong (crash with leaders) it would have started WW3.. that is for sure.

Oh and it made sense for McLaren too, considering Button could use the help, it's an important precision.

Edited by Slowinfastout, 22 July 2012 - 17:16.


#15 OfficeLinebacker

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 17:15

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#16 DanardiF1

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 17:15

I think it´s legal but can understand why Vettel is annoyed. Lewis was faster, yes, but only like .5 seconds a lap. That´s not enough IMO to interfere with a battle for the lead.


It doesn't matter what the time difference is, drivers are allowed to unlap themselves. It's a rare occurence because a lapped car is usually a backmarker and doesn't have the speed to do so, or it's a damaged or hindered leading car that can't maintain it's original pace.

In this case, Lewis was on new tyres and trying to catch the cars ahead of him in the race. It just so happened that he was faster than the leaders, and had to pass them to then move further forward.

#17 MaxisOne

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 17:16

I think it´s legal but can understand why Vettel is annoyed. Lewis was faster, yes, but only like .5 seconds a lap. That´s not enough IMO to interfere with a battle for the lead.


It could have been .001 second faster .. the bottom line is that its faster. Vettel will have to suck it up and deal with it. If he was in the other car i have no hesitation that he would have tried the exact same thing.

#18 gm914

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 17:16

To me it was totally fair. If unlapping was not allowed, then a lapped car wouldn't be able to win a race, and to be honest, a lapped car winning the race would be brilliant, so I don't see how that can be forbidden.

Exactly. What does he want, once you are lapped you have to pull over and retire?
It was good to see.
I don't think Vettel should be calling anyone 'stupid' today. :rolleyes:
I'm sure I could count on one hand how many people on here saw NASCAR's NCWTS race last night. James Buescher had to pit to change freakin carburettors, went laps down, then stormed back to win it.
A stellar drive and one that made the race exciting.

Edited by gm914, 22 July 2012 - 17:20.


#19 ayali

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 17:17

It was perfectly legitimate so no problem there.
Still it was classless and not very smart but that's no surprise when Lewis is involved
Now there's just another driver and team with a bone to pick with him

I fully expect a Red Bull or Toro Rosso to properly mess up Lewis' qualy or race later this year

what comes around and all that

:cool:

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#20 ANF

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 17:18

I thought it was a brilliant move – intelligent and hilarious. Vettel lost his rhythm and focus and fell into the clutches of Button, all according to plan. It may have been McLaren's best strategy call this season. :)

#21 fatd

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 17:19

A perfectly legitimate move, although Vettel's frustration is understandable as well.

#22 SpaMaster

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 17:19

Nothing wrong. Lapped car can unlap.

#23 Clatter

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 17:20

Remember the day when Senna thumped Irvine for unlapping himself.

#24 ForzaGTR

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 17:23

Lewis was driving faster, I don't see a problem.

#25 HuddersfieldTerrier1986

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 17:23

I think it´s legal but can understand why Vettel is annoyed. Lewis was faster, yes, but only like .5 seconds a lap. That´s not enough IMO to interfere with a battle for the lead.


0.5s a lap for 5 laps is 2.5s, that's hardly insignificant. Hamilton was faster, Vettel couldn't keep him behind, nor could he get back past him. That's not Hamilton's fault. Absolutely nothing wrong with it whatsoever.

#26 meddo

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 17:24

Remember the day when Senna thumped Irvine for unlapping himself.

Now, Senna was the MAN, and Vettel is just.... Vettel.
And in an instant I saw the move, Brasil 2008 sprang to mind. It was funny, exciting and racing, not whining.

#27 MaxisOne

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 17:25

Remember the day when Senna thumped Irvine for unlapping himself.



Who gives a damn in this day and age? Its a race after all .. If whomever has a faster car at the moment and he used it to his advantage. Whether Vettel or anyone for that matter likes it or not should not be his problem.

Remember the day when Kubica unlapped and ended in the points ?

Two can play that game. :wave:

#28 Mackey

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 17:27

0.5s a lap for 5 laps is 2.5s, that's hardly insignificant. Hamilton was faster, Vettel couldn't keep him behind, nor could he get back past him. That's not Hamilton's fault. Absolutely nothing wrong with it whatsoever.


Yeah, but Hamilton didn´t just overtake and dissapear. They battled for the position for a couple of corners and Vettel lost at least a couple of seconds. I said i think it´s legal but IMO a lapped car shouldn´t hinder the race of a leader and that´s what happened.

#29 OfficeLinebacker

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 17:27

Remember the day when Senna thumped Irvine for unlapping himself.

I don't remember the day itself, but I do remember the great stories about it.

Apparently Gerhard Berger and Senna's low tolerance for alcohol also had something to do with it!

#30 femi

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 17:30

Remember the day when Senna thumped Irvine for unlapping himself.



Actually the powerful upper cut Senna delivered to Irvine's jaw that floored him (Irvine) and right inside the Ferrari garage for good measure was not because he unlapped himself, it was because of what Irvine did afterwards - he was racing Senna; effectively slowing him down deliberately.

Those were the days when drivers had nuts ...sigh

Edited by femi, 22 July 2012 - 17:33.


#31 MaxisOne

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 17:32

Yeah, but Hamilton didn´t just overtake and dissapear. They battled for the position for a couple of corners and Vettel lost at least a couple of seconds. I said i think it´s legal but IMO a lapped car shouldn´t hinder the race of a leader and that´s what happened.



Tough luck .. if Vettel was faster he wouldn't have had a problem.. interfering with any battle is par for the course... again ... racing. Being in battle for lead of the race does not make the parties immune from interference unless a blue flag was presented to the lapped car or the lapped car was clearly off the pace. None of that were factors in this situation.

#32 Powersteer

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 17:32

Same hand gesture when he smacked Webber..IMHO except for the finger twirling bit

:cool:

#33 bennyo

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 17:34

Yeah, but Hamilton didn´t just overtake and dissapear. They battled for the position for a couple of corners and Vettel lost at least a couple of seconds. I said i think it´s legal but IMO a lapped car shouldn´t hinder the race of a leader and that´s what happened.


Well, perhaps Vettel should have let him through and let him hassle Alonso instead. He would have saved time and tyres.

#34 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 17:35

Yeah, but Hamilton didn´t just overtake and dissapear. They battled for the position for a couple of corners and Vettel lost at least a couple of seconds. I said i think it´s legal but IMO a lapped car shouldn´t hinder the race of a leader and that´s what happened.


It's Vettel's problem that he battled with Hamilton. Had he thought strategically he would have fallen in behind Hamilton to minimize the time needed to catch Alonso. Then either try to use a Hamilton overtake on Alonso to slip by or, alternatively, wait for Hamilton to be slowed down by Alonso, then overtake Hamilton under blue flags. Fighting Hamilton did nothing whatsoever for him. It's easy to talk from the sofa in hindsight, so I don't blame Vettel for not making the better call, but at the same time it does not make Hamilton's unlapping wrong.

Edited by KnucklesAgain, 22 July 2012 - 17:36.


#35 RedBaron

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 17:36

What would you prefer letting a faster car past you when it doesn't affect your points... or for him to flood your mirrors every lap, because you can't pull away from him?

#36 Powersteer

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 17:37

What Vettel should have done was to simply shut up...

:cool:

#37 bourbon

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 17:38

Completely atrocious driving by Hamilton. An example of bad sportsmanship due to his causing the race to lose its integrity at that time.

Say what you want about the legality of the situation, it doesn't change the fact that a race for the lead was on between Alonso and Vettel - and Hamilton took that away from the fans so that he could move from P24-1L to P24.

Not only that - but he then parked his backmarker butt in between the drivers causing streams of dirty air to further affect Vettel and ensure that we would not get our race for the lead back at all.

Is it legal to unlap yourself? Sure. Is it legal to help your teammate out? Sure.

But Hamilton fiddled with the race at the front, and that destroyed the integrity of the race for fans, which is for me, a strong basis for unsportsmanlike behavior.



#38 choyothe

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 17:39

Erm, what would the point of that be? Passing Vettel allowed Lewis to go faster and improve his overall race time (were he to finish).

There is no reason why a lapped car going faster than the race leaders cannot un-lap himself, and it's not as if Vettel was a second behind Alonso.

The fact that Hamilton pulled away from Vettel after the overtake justifies it.


Well it basically made him a second quicker overall at that point, from behind Vettel to behind Alonso. Not to forget the amount of tyre he ruined in doing so.

What it showed though was the abominable speed on the straights of the RB. Hamilton comes from a relative long way back to be practically alongside to the braking zone, then when he tries to do the same to Alonso 2-3 times he's nowhere close, not even close enough to bother to show himself in Alonsos mirrors. Ridiculous. ):

#39 jrg19

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 17:39

Completely atrocious driving by Hamilton. An example of bad sportsmanship due to his causing the race to lose its integrity at that time.

Say what you want about the legality of the situation, it doesn't change the fact that a race for the lead was on between Alonso and Vettel - and Hamilton took that away from the fans so that he could move from P24-1L to P24.

Not only that - but he then parked his backmarker butt in between the drivers causing streams of dirty air to further affect Vettel and ensure that we would not get our race for the lead back at all.

Is it legal to unlap yourself? Sure. Is it legal to help your teammate out? Sure.

But Hamilton fiddled with the race at the front, and that destroyed the integrity of the race for fans, which is for me, a strong basis for unsportsmanlike behavior.


Maybe Vettel should have kept him behind.  ;)

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#40 xAtarigeekx

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 17:39

Completely atrocious driving by Hamilton. An example of bad sportsmanship due to his causing the race to lose its integrity at that time.

Say what you want about the legality of the situation, it doesn't change the fact that a race for the lead was on between Alonso and Vettel - and Hamilton took that away from the fans so that he could move from P24-1L to P24.

Not only that - but he then parked his backmarker butt in between the drivers causing streams of dirty air to further affect Vettel and ensure that we would not get our race for the lead back at all.

Is it legal to unlap yourself? Sure. Is it legal to help your teammate out? Sure.

But Hamilton fiddled with the race at the front, and that destroyed the integrity of the race for fans, which is for me, a strong basis for unsportsmanlike behavior.


:rotfl:

#41 Moore

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 17:41

Completely atrocious driving by Hamilton. An example of bad sportsmanship due to his causing the race to lose its integrity at that time.

Say what you want about the legality of the situation, it doesn't change the fact that a race for the lead was on between Alonso and Vettel - and Hamilton took that away from the fans so that he could move from P24-1L to P24.

Not only that - but he then parked his backmarker butt in between the drivers causing streams of dirty air to further affect Vettel and ensure that we would not get our race for the lead back at all.

Is it legal to unlap yourself? Sure. Is it legal to help your teammate out? Sure.

But Hamilton fiddled with the race at the front, and that destroyed the integrity of the race for fans, which is for me, a strong basis for unsportsmanlike behavior.



Awww....... diddums. :kiss:

#42 Arska

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 17:42

Nothing wrong with the pass, and he didn't hinder Vettel at all.


You can't say he didn't hinder Vettel at all as all passing near corners slows people down, but that's what racing is like. Lewis didn't slow him down any more than necessary, so nothing wrong with it.

#43 MaxisOne

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 17:42

Completely atrocious driving by Hamilton. An example of bad sportsmanship due to his causing the race to lose its integrity at that time.

Say what you want about the legality of the situation, it doesn't change the fact that a race for the lead was on between Alonso and Vettel - and Hamilton took that away from the fans so that he could move from P24-1L to P24.

Not only that - but he then parked his backmarker butt in between the drivers causing streams of dirty air to further affect Vettel and ensure that we would not get our race for the lead back at all.

Is it legal to unlap yourself? Sure. Is it legal to help your teammate out? Sure.

But Hamilton fiddled with the race at the front, and that destroyed the integrity of the race for fans, which is for me, a strong basis for unsportsmanlike behavior.



Funny .. I found it highly entertaining and enhanced the integrity of the race for me .. Sorry for the way you feel but i presume you must be speaking for yourself in regards to your rant about destroying whatever race integrity you were talking about.

#44 jstrains

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 17:43

In my opinion it was not necessary, it should help Button but helped Alonso instead :clap:

#45 midgrid

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 17:48

Hamilton was entitled to make the move as he was quicker and it was in his best interest to unlap himself, e.g. if he'd unlapped Alonso and the safety car had been deployed, then he would have gained a significant advantage.

At the same time, Vettel is also entitled to feel annoyed, as it did cost him a bit of time at a point when he was competing for the race victory. But that's part of racing.

#46 StefanArak

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 17:48

Completely atrocious driving by Hamilton. An example of bad sportsmanship due to his causing the race to lose its integrity at that time.

Say what you want about the legality of the situation, it doesn't change the fact that a race for the lead was on between Alonso and Vettel - and Hamilton took that away from the fans so that he could move from P24-1L to P24.

Not only that - but he then parked his backmarker butt in between the drivers causing streams of dirty air to further affect Vettel and ensure that we would not get our race for the lead back at all.

Is it legal to unlap yourself? Sure. Is it legal to help your teammate out? Sure.

But Hamilton fiddled with the race at the front, and that destroyed the integrity of the race for fans, which is for me, a strong basis for unsportsmanlike behavior.


:lol: Genuinely one of the worst posts I've ever read here! At least it's funny though xD!

#47 bourbon

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 17:50

Maybe Vettel should have kept him behind.;)


No. Fighting Hamilton would have been all kinds of stupid. You don't confront stupid with stupid. That would have left them both with tattered tyres and of no help to Vettel in reeling in Alonso. You have to remember that he and Alonso's tyre wear was compatible at that time and Vettel was reeling him in.

Hamilton ended all that - he destroyed what was ramping up to be a great race between Alonso and Vettel - all for P24 for himself and I guess to gain time for Button (unsportsmanlike if true). So if you didn't find that an exciting prospect, I would hope that you could at least acknowledge that there were thousands of fans out there today who were anxiously awaiting just such a battle.

Seriously, are there any race fans left? Was I the only one on this board looking forward to Vettel/Alonso wheel to wheel???

Edited by bourbon, 22 July 2012 - 17:54.


#48 DILLIGAF

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 17:52

What Vettel should have done was to simply shut up...

:cool:


Gotta agree. He needs to read the racing rule book, leave the ego in the garage, cut out the petulant behavior & let his driving do the talking. There was absolutely nothing wrong with Hamilton's move. He doesn't owe Seb any favours.

#49 HuddersfieldTerrier1986

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 17:53

Completely atrocious driving by Hamilton. An example of bad sportsmanship due to his causing the race to lose its integrity at that time.

Say what you want about the legality of the situation, it doesn't change the fact that a race for the lead was on between Alonso and Vettel - and Hamilton took that away from the fans so that he could move from P24-1L to P24.

Not only that - but he then parked his backmarker butt in between the drivers causing streams of dirty air to further affect Vettel and ensure that we would not get our race for the lead back at all.

Is it legal to unlap yourself? Sure. Is it legal to help your teammate out? Sure.

But Hamilton fiddled with the race at the front, and that destroyed the integrity of the race for fans, which is for me, a strong basis for unsportsmanlike behavior.


Sorry but for me that's a load of trash. He was quicker than Vettel, so he passed him. Vettel was then unable to keep up with him, so Hamilton didn't receive blue flags and move over. Absolutely NOTHING wrong, illegal, immoral, or unsporting about it. Unsportsmanlike behaviour? Rubbish. Destroyed the integrity of the race for fans? Garbage. It's not Hamilton's fault that Vettel couldn't keep up with him and so couldn't get close enough to Hamilton or Alonso. If Vettel was quick enough then Vettel wouldn't have been passed by Hamilton. If Vettel was quick enough, he'd have been right on Hamilton's tail after Hamilton got past him, and so Hamilton would've received the blue flags.

#50 fatd

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 17:54

Well, perhaps Vettel should have let him through and let him hassle Alonso instead. He would have saved time and tyres.


Yeah actually I thought the same as well, but maybe a race driver who is not a backmarker would intuitively defend for position if he sees a car in the mirror chasing him, so don't think he even considered that as an option... and if he conceded the pass and was able to match Hamilton's pace, he would have driven in dirty air..

Edited by fatd, 22 July 2012 - 17:56.