20 replies to this topic

[arttidesco]

I have been plugging away for nearly two years on a no budget youtube film about one of TNF's favorite no budget Grand Prix cars.

Getting close to completion and hope to have said film on line for the fortieth anniversary of it's running on August 16th.

While I have had to take a few liberties with photo's and sounds in terms of pedantic accuracy I'd very much like to get a rights free image of a DFV quill shaft.

If you have one, it does not have to be mint studio condition, or know of some one who could let me come and take a photo of one, anywhere within a 120 miles or so of Bristol, please leave a message below or e-mail me at arttidescoATnetscape.net.

Thanking you in anticipation of your responses.

PS Also not been able to confirm with absolute certainty with Barry Boor or Peter Connew what kind of BMW Francois Migault was driving on the road in 1972, possibly a four door 1800 or 2 door 1602, if anyone is in touch with Chris Witty he may be able to confirm this one way or 'tother.

Edited by arttidesco, 23 July 2012 - 21:35.

[Barry Boor]

Don't you just LOVE optimism?

[arttidesco]

Don't you just LOVE optimism?

[Tony Matthews]

You have mail.

[arttidesco]

Thanks to Simon Lewis and Steve Holter for their offers of help to get in touch with Chris who unfortunately could not help with Françoise BMW question.

Thanks for the mail Tony, you now also have mail to the effect that Barry tells me the quill shaft I am looking for is the drive for the fuel injection.

[Barry Boor]

At least, that what I think it was but I'll verify that with a certain former Surtees designer. Or better yet, Ralph, you ring him and check.

[f1steveuk]

Which got me thinking. When I worked at a certain motor museum, they had some "kits" to make full size DFV dummy engines (they had been commissioned by Ford) and when assembled they were quite hard to tell from the real thing, if they are still there, might go into a certain F1 car?

[arttidesco]

Which got me thinking. When I worked at a certain motor museum, they had some "kits" to make full size DFV dummy engines (they had been commissioned by Ford) and when assembled they were quite hard to tell from the real thing, if they are still there, might go into a certain F1 car?

I'll suggest it to Peter when I next speak to him, though when I saw the tub it was in need of a lot of TLC before it would benefit from even a dummy engine.

[Ray Bell]

I thought a 'quill shaft' belonged to the transmission? ie. that it went between the clutch plate and the gearbox input.

Of course, there might be a broader usage that would include other things...

[Robin Fairservice]

From an Internet search for "Quill Shaft"+DFV:

The Lucas fuel metering unit, alternator, and distributor between the cylinder banks are driven from the gear #3 cluster at ½ engine speed via a ½" (12.7 mm) axillary 'quill' shaft that runs through the middle of the valley, very near the stiffening web that is cast in. This shaft drives a 26 tooth spur gear mounted in a housing between and slightly below the alternator and fuel metering unit. The spur gear attached directly to the quill shaft then drives a 26 tooth driven gear also between the alternator and fuel metering unit, but directly in line with them. As a result these driven items run counter-clockwise. The quill shaft was specifically designed in the first years of the DFV to reduce harmonic vibrations in the gear train that were breaking gear teeth.

[Tony Matthews]

As I have already supplied arttidesco with three phots of the DFV fuel-injection quill shaft, I may as well post one here! And hello, Robin!


Coyright Tony Matthews

Edited by Tony Matthews, 25 July 2012 - 05:10.

[Barry Boor]

Nice to know the old memory has not gone completely ga-ga. That is the correct quill shaft that snapped at Brands.

[arttidesco]

Thanks to everybody who has responded to this thread, now down to me to get the film edited in time for August 16th

[Ray Bell]

It looks like it attacked the harmonics problem by having a lot of compliance...

I believe there were further efforts made to take the harmonics out of the valvegear and valve train. Any pics of them?

[f1steveuk]

It looks like it attacked the harmonics problem by having a lot of compliance...

I believe there were further efforts made to take the harmonics out of the valvegear and valve train. Any pics of them?

Ray, are you alluding to what I recall was a problem with the first series DFV, a lot of vibration, and what Graham Hill described as "lot of power, in a narrow belt, but it feels like it's going to shake to pieces!". Was this a design problem, or purely a mechanical balance problem?

I know the V10s of a few years ago were naturally out of balance, and the harmonics of the exhausts could destroy the headers/downpipes quite easily.

Just curious!

[Ray Bell]

I don't recall anything about it 'in the day', but I've been told that there were some pretty tricky things done in the gear trains of both the FVA and the DFV...

It was all aimed at keeping crankshaft harmonics from destroying the valve train.

[Tony Matthews]

I don't recall anything about it 'in the day', but I've been told that there were some pretty tricky things done in the gear trains of both the FVA and the DFV...

It was all aimed at keeping crankshaft harmonics from destroying the valve train.

You may be alluding to the DFV timing gear vibration damper, Ray. I don't know about the FVA, which may not have had the same problems. The DFV had a VD installed after several timing gear failures - it consists of several small torsion bars in a housing, and relaced an original idler gear.

[Ray Bell]

Is there a diagram somewhere?

I was told also of a little torsion bar part-way up a camshaft... is that right?

[Tony Matthews]

Yes, there is a diagram, or at least, a cutaway, somewhere. Not an idler gear, I was relying on memory. There was nothing partway up a camshaft, as far as I know.

[simonlewisbooks]

I know the V10s of a few years ago were naturally out of balance, and the harmonics of the exhausts could destroy the headers/downpipes quite easily.

...and the upper register of your hearing if you seldom thought of wearing ear plugs....pardon?

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Tony Matthews


Yes, there is a diagram, or at least, a cutaway, somewhere. Not an idler gear, I was relying on memory. There was nothing partway up a camshaft, as far as I know.

Thanks for that, Tony, I think I understand what's going on there, an incredibly complicated little assembly, too. That's clearly the 'quill shaft' about which we are wondering going off the back of the gears there, but it doesn't seem to me to be benefiting from the anti-harmonics isolation like the rest of the gear train. Or am I wrong there?