18 replies to this topic

[Barry Boor]

During his description of the 1958 Monaco Grand Prix, Tony Brooks mentions that although there were four Vanwalls taken down, there were only three engines. The fourth engine was due to be flown down later.

In Tony's words "...but the aircraft experienced bad weather and crashed."

Is anything more known about this, presumably, tragic event?

[Vitesse2]

From The Times, May 17th 1958:

[Tim Murray]

DSJ and Cyril Posthumus provided a bit more detail in Vanwall:

The Monaco GP which had opened the European season saw all three Vanwalls retire with mechanical troubles, and a portent of this came before the race began. During the final engine testing at Maidenhead, unit V3 refused to give the required power output and Frank Davis knew that it was a waste of time telephoning the 'old man' and saying that the team would have to go with a duff engine as spare. That would not have been tolerated, so the engine was stripped, rebuilt, checked, tested and still it would not come up to scratch. 265 bhp at 7,400 rpm was the figure required, with a scatter from one engine to another of not more than 1%. The mechanics were agitating to get on the road, for it was a long trip to Monaco, with no Autoroutes then to speed their passage, and finally they could wait no longer. There was no way GAV was going to let that recalcitrant engine leave his works, and the lads at Maidenhead sweated hour after hour. The transporters had left for their journey south before the required power figures were obtained and the engine was torn off the test-bed, crated up and rushed to London Airport, to be put on a cargo plane for Nice, where the team could collect it. Getting the engine freighted at the last minute commanded all the ingenuity and persuasion that Fred Fox and Frank Davis could bring to bear and, as the BEA freighter took off at 03.00 hours on May 16, they went home and sat down to a well-earned drink before even thinking about bed. Little did they know that disaster was imminent, for the plane never reached Nice. It crashed near Némours in bad weather in the early hours of the morning, and the engine was completely destroyed.

[Vitesse2]

"Pionair Leopard" is actually a posh name for a Douglas DC-3/C47 freighter conversion. This one was registered G-AGHP, presumably ex-military and allegedly already 15 years old:

http://aviation-safe...p?id=19580516-0

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Vitesse2
"Pionair Leopard" is actually a posh name for a Douglas DC-3/C47 freighter conversion. This one was registered G-AGHP, presumably ex-military and allegedly already 15 years old:

http://aviation-safe...p?id=19580516-0

No wonder the name wasn't familiar to me!

I was kind of expecting it to be a Bristol freighter until I read the name...

[Barry Boor]

Thank you, gentlemen.

I'm surprised that Tony glossed over this matter in so few words.

[Odseybod]

Must have been quite a storm for the poor Dak to suffer structural failure as per the report. Tough old things, I'd always thought. Icing, perhaps?

Edited by Odseybod, 26 July 2012 - 13:10.

[D-Type]

Thank you, gentlemen.

I'm surprised that Tony glossed over this matter in so few words.

Essentially Tony's book is a racer's reminiscences. From his racer's perspective, the engine didn't arrive because the plane crashed. The story of the crash is not part of Tony's story. If I recall correctly (I'm at work and can't check) it got a very brief mention in Motor Sport and Tony may well have based his narrative on that and felt it unnecessary to elaborate.

Had it been a private flight commissioned by Vandervell or had Vanwall personnel been involved in the crash it would have received fuller coverage as it would have been part of his world and his story, admittedly still only borderline.

[Doug Nye]

Not sure whether that DC3 was actually a British European Airways airframe or one operated by a sub contractor under the BEA umbrella. Regardless, 1958 was a rugged year for the airline, first the Munich Air Disaster which involved one of their Airspeed Ambassador airliners and decimated the Manchester United football team, then this freighter crash at Nemours and finally the Anzio collision in Italian airspace which involved a BEA Viscount and an Italian Air Force Sabre jet fighter, and which left no survivors from the airliner. The crew were considered part culpable for the Viscount intruding into military training airspace. Just a single hull loss could close a major airline today.

DCN

[Levin68]

During his description of the 1958 Monaco Grand Prix, Tony Brooks mentions that although there were four Vanwalls taken down, there were only three engines. The fourth engine was due to be flown down later.

In Tony's words "...but the aircraft experienced bad weather and crashed."

Is anything more known about this, presumably, tragic event?

This, possibly?

ACCIDENT DETAILS
Date: May 16, 1958
Time: ?
Location: Chatenoy, France
Operator: British European Airways
Flight #: ?
Route: ?
AC Type: Douglas C-47A
Registration: G-AGHP
cn / ln: 9408
Aboard: 3 (passengers:0 crew:3)
Fatalities: 3 (passengers:0 crew:3)
Ground: 0
Summary: Broke up in midair while flying through a thunderstorm.

Oops, how slow am I...

Edited by Levin68, 26 July 2012 - 13:19.

[Doug Nye]

That's the one, Chatenoy. The Dakota was flying in a storm and the crew asked permission to descend from 7,500 feet to 5,500 feet. This was granted, but before the crew could acknowledge, a structural failure occurred followed by the aircraft breaking up and falling to earth. A nasty business...

DCN

[LittleChris]

I'm a bit confused that both Nemours and Chatenoy are quoted as being the site of the crash since they seem to be around 20 miles from each other.

Edited by LittleChris, 26 July 2012 - 21:24.

[Vitesse2]

The French accident report is in Kew and says it was at Chatenoy.

http://www.nationala...g...ethod=5&j=1

Jenks and Cyril probably cross-checked the index to The Times, which would have led them to repeat the Némours error. Flight made the same mistake at the time, so it looks like the misinformation originated at AP:

http://www.flightglo.....20- 0705.html

[LittleChris]

Thanks Vitesse,

Perhaps Chatenoy is in the Nemours district ( though Orleans is actually the nearest large town )

[Tim Murray]

There is a village called Châtenoy lying SW of Nemours. According to the site below the distance between the two is 6.54 km:

http://www.map-franc...Chatenoy-77167/

[LittleChris]

Well spotted Tim. The Chatenoy that I spotted was also SW of Nemours but a bit further away. Obviously Chatenoy is a popular village name in those parts ! Probably a good thing the crash didn't happen at a french village / town called Villeneuve ....

[Doug Nye]

The wreckage fell outside Chatenoy, Seine-et-Marne. Nearest sizeable town is Nemours.

DCN

[Ray Bell]

It's hard to imagine the engine being totally destroyed...

Unless there was a fire, of course. It would have amounted to a great loss for the team right in the busy part of the season, so ramifications would have gone on beyond Monaco.

[eldougo]

From The Times, May 17th 1958:

A sad trip that included an Australian the 2nd Officer R.J.Harrison.