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2012 - MotoGP, WSB, Moto2, WSP, AMA, BSB Part II


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#1 Mandzipop

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 21:48

Resumption of conversation from this thread. http://forums.autosp...60#entry5846271

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#2 TFLB

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 22:09

Regarding Rossi, would it not be better for MotoGP to stop clinging to the past and to look to the future? Rossi has not got a long career in front of him, a few more years maybe. Would it not be better to break the dependence on Rossi now and try and divert focus to a younger rider?

#3 Seanspeed

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 22:12

Regarding Rossi, would it not be better for MotoGP to stop clinging to the past and to look to the future? Rossi has not got a long career in front of him, a few more years maybe. Would it not be better to break the dependence on Rossi now and try and divert focus to a younger rider?

Who is the future? Dovizioso?

#4 RockyRaccoon68

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 22:16

Who is the future? Dovizioso?


This is the problem really, isn't it? Rossi isn't what he once was but in my opinion he would still thrash most of the younger riders.


#5 TFLB

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 22:26

Who is the future? Dovizioso?

I don't know, probably not, but whatever way you look at it, there's no getting around the fact that in a few years Rossi will retire, and MotoGP can't still be reliant on him by then.

#6 Seanspeed

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 22:44

I don't know, probably not, but whatever way you look at it, there's no getting around the fact that in a few years Rossi will retire, and MotoGP can't still be reliant on him by then.

They can deal with that when the time comes. Hopefully by then, there's a larger amount of competitive bikes and maybe some more potentially top-level riders coming through.

I think it'd be a shame for Rossi not to get a competitive bike again before he retires. Going back to Yamaha wouldn't be 100% ideal for either him or the team, but there's still plenty of positives to be had from it, one being that us spectators get an entertaining rider back at the front again.

#7 Atreiu

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 22:45

Future? Lorenzo and Mrquez, to name two. Possibly Vinales and maybe Louis Rossi or even Fenati. And what if Ianonne adapts well to big bikes? Or Bradl? And so many other guys in Moto2 and Moto3...

#8 Hippo

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 22:53

Yeah of the current riders Bradl seems to be promising. And seeing how he had his hands full with Marquez last year I think the Spaniard will be fast too. Iannone, Redding and a bunch of others could prove to be pretty decent as well. Dovizioso surely will never be a guy who can win a regular race.

#9 TFLB

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 23:00

They can deal with that when the time comes. Hopefully by then, there's a larger amount of competitive bikes and maybe some more potentially top-level riders coming through.

I think it'd be a shame for Rossi not to get a competitive bike again before he retires. Going back to Yamaha wouldn't be 100% ideal for either him or the team, but there's still plenty of positives to be had from it, one being that us spectators get an entertaining rider back at the front again.

But they need to start planning for it now. If the MotoGP authorities are trying to get Rossi back on a Yamaha, then they are shooting themselves in the foot. I'm not saying I don't want Rossi on a competitive bike, but I think it would be a shame to stick him back on a factory Yamaha because, to be honest, there are other more deserving riders out there. I'd consider Bradl and Dovizioso to be more deserving in particular. I don't think they're better than Rossi, but as I've said, I think it's time to let some younger riders have a chance. Another rider I'd like to see given a chance is Pol Espagaro, he seems just as quick as Marquez at the moment.

#10 Risil

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 23:49

Giving other riders a chance, Dovizioso who's just spent three years as a factory rider. Does not compute.

Bradl would be interesting but he'd have to be as quick as Crutchlow and Dovi to be considered a future factory rider, surely? The best thing he can say is that he's raced wheel-to-wheel with Valentino Rossi a lot, but that's not the gold star it once was. He's improving practically race by race, but it would be a huge gamble at this stage. He's very young though and all you can really ask of any rider is that they're better now than they were a year ago.

What a brilliant bargaining tool for Rossi to make demands of Audi/Ducati with, though. Anyone would've thought getting beaten week-in-week-out by Barbera and Hayden would diminish his position, but the clever bastard's probably got more political clout than ever.

Edited by Risil, 26 July 2012 - 23:51.


#11 RedFury

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 23:54

Who is the future? Dovizioso?



You are looking at it right now: present & future is more than likely, Lorenzo. Long term, who knows? Marquez?

#12 Realyn

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 00:13

All that talk about Marquez ... I'll be hugely suprised if he doesn't injure himself badly in his first 1 or 2 MotoGp years.

#13 Lazy Prodigy

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 00:17

I have a great idea. Why dont we give Stoner, Rossi, Lorenzo, and Pedrosa CRT's? That allows for a fresh new generation of young riders to fertilize the motogp audience with their talents while satisfying Rossi vs Stoner vs Lorenzo vs Pedrosa debate.

#14 Seanspeed

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 00:33

But they need to start planning for it now. If the MotoGP authorities are trying to get Rossi back on a Yamaha, then they are shooting themselves in the foot. I'm not saying I don't want Rossi on a competitive bike, but I think it would be a shame to stick him back on a factory Yamaha because, to be honest, there are other more deserving riders out there. I'd consider Bradl and Dovizioso to be more deserving in particular. I don't think they're better than Rossi, but as I've said, I think it's time to let some younger riders have a chance. Another rider I'd like to see given a chance is Pol Espagaro, he seems just as quick as Marquez at the moment.

No, there are not more 'deserving' riders. Thats frankly a bit ludicrous. Maybe if Simoncelli was still around..... :cry:

I think the problem is that there's a large gap between good solid riders, which there are quite a handful of in both MotoGP, Moto2 and even WSBK, and the aliens. You put any of those solid riders against a Lorenzo and it will be a whitewash. Spies was right there with Simoncelli in terms of specialness and even he couldn't find what it took to be competitive with Lorenzo on a regular basis. A guy like Doviozoso, who is doing great at Tech 3, was only 2nd rate compared to Pedrosa. Bradl is promising and has done better than many people probably expected, but the fact that he doesn't have high expectations comes with concern that he's not anywhere close to being a top rider.

Guys from Moto2 and WSBK are unproven on MotoGP machines, so they're massive risks. Better to stick them in satellite teams or some place other than a top MotoGP ride to prove themselves first.

Rossi really is the best option here. For the fans, for the sport, for Rossi, and for Yamaha. I'd be shocked if things go any other way, honestly. There doesn't need to be any 'planning' for when Rossi retires either. I dont get what that even means, honestly. If Rossi retires and he's at Yamaha, then he's gonna retire. Whether he's at Ducati or wherever, he'll be gone and the sport will be worse off for it. But it wont be the end of the world. Like I said, he's pretty much been out of the picture for a couple seasons now anyways. The sport will move on and there's no 'picking up the pieces that need to be done'. Its just something that'll be handled when it comes to it.

#15 Chubby_Deuce

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 01:08

A sponsor or just a reminder for Toni?

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#16 HP

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 02:25

Regarding Rossi, would it not be better for MotoGP to stop clinging to the past and to look to the future? Rossi has not got a long career in front of him, a few more years maybe. Would it not be better to break the dependence on Rossi now and try and divert focus to a younger rider?

It's not that MotoGP didn't try. Simoncelli IMO was the man, but ...

The few years Rossi still might be riding is the time MotoGP has to build a new star, that's not happening over night.


#17 HP

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 02:40

No, there are not more 'deserving' riders. Thats frankly a bit ludicrous. Maybe if Simoncelli was still around..... :cry:

I think the problem is that there's a large gap between good solid riders, which there are quite a handful of in both MotoGP, Moto2 and even WSBK, and the aliens. You put any of those solid riders against a Lorenzo and it will be a whitewash. Spies was right there with Simoncelli in terms of specialness and even he couldn't find what it took to be competitive with Lorenzo on a regular basis. A guy like Doviozoso, who is doing great at Tech 3, was only 2nd rate compared to Pedrosa. Bradl is promising and has done better than many people probably expected, but the fact that he doesn't have high expectations comes with concern that he's not anywhere close to being a top rider.

Guys from Moto2 and WSBK are unproven on MotoGP machines, so they're massive risks. Better to stick them in satellite teams or some place other than a top MotoGP ride to prove themselves first.

Rossi really is the best option here. For the fans, for the sport, for Rossi, and for Yamaha. I'd be shocked if things go any other way, honestly. There doesn't need to be any 'planning' for when Rossi retires either. I dont get what that even means, honestly. If Rossi retires and he's at Yamaha, then he's gonna retire. Whether he's at Ducati or wherever, he'll be gone and the sport will be worse off for it. But it wont be the end of the world. Like I said, he's pretty much been out of the picture for a couple seasons now anyways. The sport will move on and there's no 'picking up the pieces that need to be done'. Its just something that'll be handled when it comes to it.

Most of your post I see the same, but IMO it'd be even better if Ducati could build a bike that is rideable at the front for anyone. So Rossi could stay with Ducati. If Rossi moves to Yamaha then that could influence a few things at Ducati for the worse. Most importantly the willingness to throw cash into it from the new owners. While Stoner and Ducati was good news for MotoGP as well, it seems to me that Ducati missed the boat in terms of developing the bike. Even Stoner, who did wonders on the Ducati, got fed up riding his heart out in trying to keep up with Honda and Yamaha.

If Ducati continues to perform on the level where it is right now, or even is going backwards, we'd be left with only 2 manufacturors sooner or later, meaning less competition. So really Rossi moving to Yamaha is a double edged sword IMO. I wish him all the best, but not at the expense of MotoGP overall.


#18 Seanspeed

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 04:09

Most of your post I see the same, but IMO it'd be even better if Ducati could build a bike that is rideable at the front for anyone. So Rossi could stay with Ducati. If Rossi moves to Yamaha then that could influence a few things at Ducati for the worse. Most importantly the willingness to throw cash into it from the new owners. While Stoner and Ducati was good news for MotoGP as well, it seems to me that Ducati missed the boat in terms of developing the bike. Even Stoner, who did wonders on the Ducati, got fed up riding his heart out in trying to keep up with Honda and Yamaha.

If Ducati continues to perform on the level where it is right now, or even is going backwards, we'd be left with only 2 manufacturors sooner or later, meaning less competition. So really Rossi moving to Yamaha is a double edged sword IMO. I wish him all the best, but not at the expense of MotoGP overall.

I think the dream of Rossi turning around Ducati is well done by now, though. When even he is barely beating Hayden, there's probably serious issues going on with the bike that explain why its been so terrible for many otherwise talented riders. If all Rossi is doing is being a pawn to keep Ducati in the game, then its a sad situation. I dont want to resort to that. It might be a double-edged sword, but thats what things are pointing to anyways. I dont think Ducati would necessarily leave, either. Crutchlow/Iannone pairing would be really interesting and worth staying for. Rossi isn't exactly producing massive results so he wont be a big loss in that respect.

#19 hulmerist

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 05:08

So poncheral confirmed Smith for one of his m1's next year, who will ride with him? seems crutchlow will be if Rossi stays at Ducati, if Rossi goes to Yamaha then cal will take his seat, dovi will be pissed and will move good knows where leaving a seat free, motomatters speculated on De puniet




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#20 BMW4life

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 05:23

... I think it would be a shame to stick him back on a factory Yamaha because, to be honest, there are other more deserving riders out there. I'd consider Bradl and Dovizioso to be more deserving in particular.


Dovi more deserving than Rossi? :eek: outrageous...

Edited by BMW4life, 27 July 2012 - 05:24.


#21 TFLB

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 06:35

No, there are not more 'deserving' riders. Thats frankly a bit ludicrous. Maybe if Simoncelli was still around..... :cry:

I think the problem is that there's a large gap between good solid riders, which there are quite a handful of in both MotoGP, Moto2 and even WSBK, and the aliens. You put any of those solid riders against a Lorenzo and it will be a whitewash. Spies was right there with Simoncelli in terms of specialness and even he couldn't find what it took to be competitive with Lorenzo on a regular basis. A guy like Doviozoso, who is doing great at Tech 3, was only 2nd rate compared to Pedrosa. Bradl is promising and has done better than many people probably expected, but the fact that he doesn't have high expectations comes with concern that he's not anywhere close to being a top rider.

Guys from Moto2 and WSBK are unproven on MotoGP machines, so they're massive risks. Better to stick them in satellite teams or some place other than a top MotoGP ride to prove themselves first.

Rossi really is the best option here. For the fans, for the sport, for Rossi, and for Yamaha. I'd be shocked if things go any other way, honestly. There doesn't need to be any 'planning' for when Rossi retires either. I dont get what that even means, honestly. If Rossi retires and he's at Yamaha, then he's gonna retire. Whether he's at Ducati or wherever, he'll be gone and the sport will be worse off for it. But it wont be the end of the world. Like I said, he's pretty much been out of the picture for a couple seasons now anyways. The sport will move on and there's no 'picking up the pieces that need to be done'. Its just something that'll be handled when it comes to it.

Of course there are more deserving riders. At times over the last season and a bit Rossi has looked lost.

I don't think you're quite getting my point. While Rossi is a good rider, MotoGP has an unhealthy reliance on him. Like an addiction, it is best broken sooner rather than later. I do not think that Dovizioso is better than Rossi, but if Rossi were to not get the Yamaha, that would open the door for other riders (I don't know who) who perhaps could have the same effect in terms of publicity as Rossi. So what I mean by planning for Rossi's retirement is making sure they have a ready-made replacement who can keep most of his die-hard fans following the sport.

#22 TFLB

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 06:36

Dovi more deserving than Rossi? :eek: outrageous...

In terms of performance over the last season and a half, yes. For someone new to MotoGP, it would be impossible to tell that Rossi is the many-time world champion.

#23 TFLB

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 06:38

All that talk about Marquez ... I'll be hugely suprised if he doesn't injure himself badly in his first 1 or 2 MotoGp years.

or another rider.

#24 santori

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 07:44

You are looking at it right now: present & future is more than likely, Lorenzo.


Considering how much he's won, it's a little surprising to remember that Lorenzo's younger than any non-CRT rider except Bradl.

Edit: I don't think Simoncelli would have been a consistent rival to Lorenzo or Pedrosa. Of course he was very good but more like a Norick Abe than a Valentino Rossi.

Edited by santori, 27 July 2012 - 07:48.


#25 GSiebert

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 07:59

Edwards : "My bike is a piece of sh*t!". :stoned:
Forward Racing might switch to the ART CRT at Indy.

#26 Chubby_Deuce

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 08:04

Edwards enjoying what could be his penultimate USGP.



#27 montoyasminion

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 09:37

So poncheral confirmed Smith for one of his m1's next year, who will ride with him? seems crutchlow will be if Rossi stays at Ducati, if Rossi goes to Yamaha then cal will take his seat, dovi will be pissed and will move good knows where leaving a seat free, motomatters speculated on De puniet

I'd hate to see de Puniet back on a prototype over any of the younger guys, hell either of the Espargaro's would be better. Maybe not faster at first but at least more potential.

#28 TFLB

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 09:53

I'd hate to see de Puniet back on a prototype over any of the younger guys, hell either of the Espargaro's would be better. Maybe not faster at first but at least more potential.

:up: To be honest I think Smith will be a waste of a good bike as well - there are plenty of better riders in Moto2. I'd quite like to see a Scott Redding - Pol Espargaro line up at Tech 3.

#29 Chubby_Deuce

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 10:21

Randy was pretty damn fast on that Honda, I've actually been surprised at how the elder Espargaro has done against him.

It's a little weird that Pol's name hasn't been thrown around more though I guess he's in no hurry to move up. If Iannone finds a GP ride next year then it's probably just Pol and Luthi battling it out for the title which Pol would probably win.

In other news Rossi is talking up Lorenzo:

"Back then it was a matter of sorting out a bike that wouldn't go quick, while now it's a matter of beating the best rider in the world on equal machinery."



#30 Rob

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 10:50

I'd hate to see de Puniet back on a prototype over any of the younger guys, hell either of the Espargaro's would be better. Maybe not faster at first but at least more potential.


I'd love to see de Puniet back on a prototype. The guy was on fire in his last year on the LCR bike, before Dorna moved him aside for Elias.

#31 rhukkas

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 12:07

I'd love to see de Puniet back on a prototype. The guy was on fire in his last year on the LCR bike, before Dorna moved him aside for Elias.


CRTs are prototypes :)

#32 wiligates

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 12:14

More a derivative .

#33 Atreiu

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 14:00

Sorting a bike that would't go quick? When did Rossi ever do that? First half of 2004?

#34 Seanspeed

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 15:32

Of course there are more deserving riders. At times over the last season and a bit Rossi has looked lost.

I don't think you're quite getting my point. While Rossi is a good rider, MotoGP has an unhealthy reliance on him. Like an addiction, it is best broken sooner rather than later. I do not think that Dovizioso is better than Rossi, but if Rossi were to not get the Yamaha, that would open the door for other riders (I don't know who) who perhaps could have the same effect in terms of publicity as Rossi. So what I mean by planning for Rossi's retirement is making sure they have a ready-made replacement who can keep most of his die-hard fans following the sport.

Yea, no one else out there right now will produce anything like the same amount of publicity as Rossi. You're just talking as if there's this mythical rider who they can put in and BAM - the next Rossi. That person doesn't exist.

Sorting a bike that would't go quick? When did Rossi ever do that? First half of 2004?

Uh oh. Somebody said something good about Rossi. Lets try and undermine it if we can.

Edited by Seanspeed, 27 July 2012 - 15:33.


#35 Arn

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 17:29

Just watching FP1 right now and Pedrosa is doing what Stoner does when he is really on it.

Went out on the first run and within the first few laps does a 1:21.8 putting more than half a second on the next riders Lorenzo and Stoner.

#36 GSiebert

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 17:50

Just curious, where are you watching FP1 ?

#37 puxanando

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 18:04

Posted Image

#38 Hippo

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 18:05

?

#39 Arn

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 18:05

Just curious, where are you watching FP1 ?

I have had a yearly subscription on motogp.com the last 2 years.

With all the extra interviews, press conferences and races from all 3 classes the last 20 years it's a bargain.

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#40 Chubby_Deuce

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 19:30

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Great! Something about a butterfly flapping its wings in China?

I'm pretty surprised that the Attack guys went as quickly as they did. No-mans land still but that's the first time the bike had been ridden on a track. Ohlins failed to some through with the shock that the bike was designed for and so it was redesigned but not in time to make the planned test.

Edited by Chubby_Deuce, 27 July 2012 - 19:31.


#41 GSiebert

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 19:59

http://www.youtube.c...player_embedded

Crutchlow :lol:

#42 Avastrol

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 20:12

http://www.youtube.c...player_embedded

Crutchlow :lol:


I love Dovi's enthusiasm better :lol:

"vacuum, nyaaa haa haa"
"and clean toilets, nyaaa haa haa"

#43 OO7

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 20:14

http://www.youtube.c...player_embedded

Crutchlow :lol:

Dovi :lol:

#44 OO7

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 20:14

I love Dovi's enthusiasm better :lol:

"vacuum, nyaaa haa haa"
"and clean toilets, nyaaa haa haa"

You beat me to it :up:

#45 STRFerrari4Ever

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 20:17

I'd love to see de Puniet back on a prototype. The guy was on fire in his last year on the LCR bike, before Dorna moved him aside for Elias.


Yeah he was on it in 2010 I remember when he put it in 2nd at Silverstone behind Lorenzo IIRC.

#46 Chubby_Deuce

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 21:42

Ewwwww, big patch of rash on Crutchlow's leg there.

Or maybe that's his underwear. Either way his leathers didn't do too well there.

Edited by Chubby_Deuce, 27 July 2012 - 21:43.


#47 GSiebert

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 21:47

Looked a bit too bright and red to be blood.

#48 Chubby_Deuce

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 21:57

Harvey Punchemal says that he lost a little skin. Ouch.

Quick job on the air fence there.

#49 OO7

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 21:59

Rossi crashed into the air fence bearing the Yamaha name. Is that an omen of where he will be heading to next year? Did he crash there on purpose? Who knows :eek:

#50 GSiebert

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 22:02

Harvey Punchemal says that he lost a little skin. Ouch.

Quick job on the air fence there.


Following Twitter as well eh :)