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2012 - MotoGP, WSB, Moto2, WSP, AMA, BSB Part II


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#451 kosmic33

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 13:37

An interesting angle but did they explain why the others don't wear additional weight for rain races if that's the case?

Didnt Pedrosa used to always blame his size for being slow in the rain?

Edited by kosmic33, 14 August 2012 - 13:37.


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#452 DS27

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 14:26

I can see where this is going .... :drunk:

#453 hammibal

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 14:43

Maybe this is being looked at from the wrong angle, being lighter is often an advantage but in the rain the advantage is not as great or even nullified, so rather than it being an advantage to be heavier in the rain its more of a case that the rain acts as an equaliser

#454 hotstickyslick

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 15:17

An interesting angle but did they explain why the others don't wear additional weight for rain races if that's the case?

I don't think it works like that?

#455 Chubby_Deuce

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 17:53

Maybe this is being looked at from the wrong angle, being lighter is often an advantage but in the rain the advantage is not as great or even nullified, so rather than it being an advantage to be heavier in the rain its more of a case that the rain acts as an equaliser


I think this is more likely.

#456 Rob

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 18:11

Apparently there's still a chance that both Dovi and Cal could end up on a Ducati with Cal going to the B-team.

#457 hotstickyslick

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 18:46

I think the whole myth that lighter riders have an unfair advantage has gone out of control, myself. If Pedrosa was 10 kilos heavier and 6 inches taller I reckon he'd be a world champion by now.

#458 santori

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 19:58

An interesting angle but did they explain why the others don't wear additional weight for rain races if that's the case?



It would be very hard to manage. It's easier to go for a walk after gaining 5 kgs by eating and than to go for a walk while carrying 5 kgs in a bag (I think. I haven't experimented).

#459 manmower

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 20:26

Apparently there's still a chance that both Dovi and Cal could end up on a Ducati with Cal going to the B-team.

The junior team probably has more of the all important factory support than Tech 3 so that might just sway him. Tech 3 still looks like a better ride than even the proper factory Ducati for next season, but beyond that who knows?

Edited by manmower, 14 August 2012 - 20:35.


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#460 hammibal

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 20:43

Apparently there's still a chance that both Dovi and Cal could end up on a Ducati with Cal going to the B-team.

That sort of makes no sense for Cal whatsoever

#461 LittleChris

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 21:13

Last weekends Ulster Grand Prix meeting at Dundrod ( prog 1 of 2 ) now available on BBC iPlayer, worth watching if just for the Martin / Dunlop battle up the hill between Budore and Wheelers in the Superbike race.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...nd_Prix_Part_1/

#462 Hippo

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 22:03

That sort of makes no sense for Cal whatsoever

Yeah that's strange. A few weeks ago he was running around making it look like it was factory or nothing for him. Why would he join a junior team? And that with Ducati? If he can't be arsed to stay with Tech3 I don't see any reason to go to a Ducati satellite team - no matter what they call it.

#463 Nova

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 05:51

Yeah that's strange. A few weeks ago he was running around making it look like it was factory or nothing for him. Why would he join a junior team? And that with Ducati? If he can't be arsed to stay with Tech3 I don't see any reason to go to a Ducati satellite team - no matter what they call it.


The only reason I can think of is if the Tech3 ride is not there, but who would Tech3 prefer to Cal?

#464 Rob

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 08:10

The only reason I can think of is if the Tech3 ride is not there, but who would Tech3 prefer to Cal?


Tech 3 say that neither rider has told them they will be staying, so presumably the offer is there. Hervé Poncharal said that if they both leave then he'll probably take another Moto2 rider and current gossip suggests it would be Pol Espargaro.

#465 Arn

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 09:11

Yeah that's strange. A few weeks ago he was running around making it look like it was factory or nothing for him. Why would he join a junior team? And that with Ducati? If he can't be arsed to stay with Tech3 I don't see any reason to go to a Ducati satellite team - no matter what they call it.

Money, and it is easier to beat the other Ducati riders than Lorenzo and Rossi on a better Yamaha.

#466 Tonka

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 09:13

I'd hate to think that Cal's mouth might lead to him sitting on either the sidelines or a pile of scrap next year, but he really needs to learn that claiming he deserves a works ride to every journalist won't endear him to his current team.

Cal has shown some obvious issues this year. He crashes too often and he can't overtake. His 'formation' riding behind Dovi might look good, but he's far too close behind to be making plans for overtaking. He has to watch Dovi's rear end around every corner in case Dovi makes a mistake, but he so close, he's unable to benefit from any mistakes Dovi might make. Basically it's very poor race craft that probably leaves him much more tired towards the end of the race than is necessary - which is why he's fallen off towards race finishes.



#467 montoyasminion

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 09:33

Tech 3 say that neither rider has told them they will be staying, so presumably the offer is there. Hervé Poncharal said that if they both leave then he'll probably take another Moto2 rider and current gossip suggests it would be Pol Espargaro.

I'd love to see Pol on that bike. Seems that de Puniet's name is being mentioned for that ride as well. No offense to Randy, but we know all he is going to do is look real quick in practice and qualy and then throw it off in the race while trying too hard. I'd rather see Pol get a chance.

#468 Disgrace

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 12:56

MotoGP is in dire need of fresh blood. Putting them on betters bikes in front of the de Puniets/Dovis of the field will provide much more excitement. Surely there will be pressure from Dorna as well to ensure synergy between the three categories.

Marquez will no doubt prove to be very divisive, he already is, and that will stir up endless debate/excitement.

Edited by Disgrace, 15 August 2012 - 12:58.


#469 Seanspeed

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 13:01

MotoGP is in dire need of fresh blood.

I think there's plenty of talent, both old and new around. Just not enough worthwhile rides.

#470 Hippo

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 15:58

I think there's plenty of talent, both old and new around. Just not enough worthwhile rides.

Indeed. They don't HAVE to promote the Moto2 riders who do have their first quick year really. Nothing wrong with riding in the intermediate class a few seasons. Pedrosa and Lorenzo have both won 2 titles there and nobody would say they wasted any time because of it.

I'd love to see RdP on a decent prototype again. He looked promising when he rode for LCR one season. But on the other hand, Espagaro (the older one) and Petrucci seem to be pretty good too. The Spaniard can stay with RdP. And the Italian has the slowest bike in the entire championship and still manages to beat some of the others. Maybe they should send their managers to Herve, because he doesn't seem to care about CRT riders much.;)

#471 Rob

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 16:14

Indeed. They don't HAVE to promote the Moto2 riders who do have their first quick year really. Nothing wrong with riding in the intermediate class a few seasons. Pedrosa and Lorenzo have both won 2 titles there and nobody would say they wasted any time because of it.

I'd love to see RdP on a decent prototype again. He looked promising when he rode for LCR one season. But on the other hand, Espagaro (the older one) and Petrucci seem to be pretty good too. The Spaniard can stay with RdP. And the Italian has the slowest bike in the entire championship and still manages to beat some of the others. Maybe they should send their managers to Herve, because he doesn't seem to care about CRT riders much.;)


I've love to see RdP on a prototype too. I think there's more to come from him. He was quick and was starting to finish races more often when Mika Kallio ran over his leg.

If you think Aleix Espargaro is talented, I think his brother Pol is even better. Agreed about Petrucci - he's doing a stunning job on a terrible bike.

#472 Chubby_Deuce

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 16:37

Both Espargaros are pretty damn good. I expected a guy of RdP's talent to be waxing Aleix and Pol is a threat for the Moto2 title against the next big thing.

#473 Arn

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 16:47

Stoner about Rossi sounds alot like an autosport forum poster. Very funny read :lol:

http://www.motorcycl...-yamaha-return/

#474 Chubby_Deuce

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 17:32

Yeah, even misquoted Burgess.

#475 hulmerist

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 18:08


What does Valentino like in a bike?

“He likes a bike that has grip and that would be front and rear. But you have to maximize the package, but I can see that Casey and Nicky run quite different settings on the bike, just from observations of the geometry on the bike.”

Which would Valentino be closer to?

“Difficult to say, without knowing where the weight is on the bike and how it behaves. But, without question, I don’t anticipate any major dramas. I can watch some of these lesser riders on the Ducatis and you can see that the bikes are, in my opinion, unsuitably set for what they want to try and do with them. I’m not saying anybody’s doing a bad job. I see these things wobbling around. When I think, clearly, if we had that issue with Valentino it’d be fixed in 80 seconds, but some riders don’t like the hardness of the bike, because they don’t get the feel. But then when they’re riding around and it’s too soft they’re not going forward either. So you’ve got to be able to create the feel with the hardness to avoid all that sloppiness. I don’t think there are any issues in the bike that are a big worry to me. I think the bike is just a tool to do your job. You sharpen the tool at the race track, you don’t build it. you should be able to adjust it to what Valentino wants. And until we’ve got a race or two under belts, we won’t really know how close we are or how much better we’ve made it. but if we can make it, as it stands here today, good for Valentino, then it’s probably not a bad bike. Then we just have to wait and see what happens.




#476 JRodrigues

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 18:31

Somebody finally has the balls to say what everybody thinks.. (except for Rossi fans)

Edited by JRodrigues, 15 August 2012 - 18:32.


#477 Chubby_Deuce

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 18:35

CRT wild card updates:

http://www.roadracin.../?article=49346

Attack sounds like they'll qualify no problem assuming that there are no more mechanical problems. A new seat/tank took care of Rapp's comfort and the electronics should be better at least.

http://www.roadracin.../?article=49342

It sounds like the GPTech bike is actually a little further along than the Attack bike but they've sort of handicapped themselves by having the hillbilly ride it.

#478 BigCHrome

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 18:50

Completely agree with Stoner.

#479 PokePoke

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 18:52

Somebody finally has the balls to say what everybody thinks.. (except for Rossi fans)

:up:

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#480 hammibal

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 19:34

Somebody finally has the balls to say what everybody thinks.. (except for Rossi fans)

Waiting for the Stoner abuse

#481 Avastrol

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 20:01

Waiting for the Stoner abuse


moaner, whiner, can't drink milk, etc.

#482 Yoshi

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 22:30

I'm glad that you will retire at the end of this season Casey.
We know, that Rossi & Burgess was a failure at Ducati and they were wrong about Stoner.
Casey sounds like an bitter little man.
Rossi is leaving Ducati with the same reason as Casey in the past, they have/had the priority to win again.
He tried, he failed and now he left Ducati like some other riders before him.
I'm pretty sure, if Rossi would be 25 years old now, he would stay at Ducati.
We can't blame him for this step, he wants the success again before he will retire.

#483 hammibal

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 23:29

I'm glad that you will retire at the end of this season Casey.
We know, that Rossi & Burgess was a failure at Ducati and they were wrong about Stoner.
Casey sounds like an bitter little man.
Rossi is leaving Ducati with the same reason as Casey in the past, they have/had the priority to win again.
He tried, he failed and now he left Ducati like some other riders before him.
I'm pretty sure, if Rossi would be 25 years old now, he would stay at Ducati.
We can't blame him for this step, he wants the success again before he will retire.

Casey Stoner left Ducati because of the lack of support he received from them when he fell ill, they put it down to him not being able to handle the pressure in a close title fight with Rossi, but now of course we know he was suffering with lactose intolerance. Up until then he saw Ducati as his family and they somewhat shunned him when he needed their morale support.

#484 lbennie

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 23:39

Hear, hear casey. :up:

you are the true goat.


Edited by lbennie, 15 August 2012 - 23:40.


#485 Avastrol

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 00:15

Aside from that misconstrued part about Burgess' statement (which is believed to be referring to the Pramac boys), I really can't see anything in Casey's salvo of shots fired to be wide off the mark. Which is funny, seeing that if theoretically he made an account in a forum and posted his thoughts he'd be permabanned right out of his arse.

Besides, anytime you mention touchy, smug statements containing the words "lesser riders, "fix," and "80 seconds," from the outside looking in no less, you are pretty much posting a Kick Me sign on your back, regardless of the specificity of what you are talking about. Rossi and the circus are no stranger to barmy statements, up until now though they have backed it up. It's also true though that Vale could be kidnapping everyone's firstborn and still have them worship him.

My personal biases included, I found Casey's statement to be that and expression of contempt and disgust, looking DOWN at Vale, and not bitterness, which is very different.

#486 Chubby_Deuce

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 00:38

Casey Stoner left Ducati because of the lack of support he received from them when he fell ill, they put it down to him not being able to handle the pressure in a close title fight with Rossi, but now of course we know he was suffering with lactose intolerance. Up until then he saw Ducati as his family and they somewhat shunned him when he needed their morale support.


Are you trying to re-write history on purpose or is ignorance to blame?

http://www.visordown...cati/15000.html

#487 hammibal

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 00:44

Are you trying to re-write history on purpose or is ignorance to blame?

http://www.visordown...cati/15000.html

Thats Wayne Gardiner's view, its his opinion against the reason given by Casey Stoner

#488 Chubby_Deuce

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 00:53

No, it's Wayne Gardner repeating what Casey Stoner told him.

You really believe that he packed his bags because the team hurt his feelings? You don't think that it had anything to do with a paycheck and a winning bike? Ducati struggled in 2010 and Casey knew that nothing special was in store for 2011.

#489 HP

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 00:56

My personal biases included, I found Casey's statement to be that and expression of contempt and disgust, looking DOWN at Vale, and not bitterness, which is very different.

Kind of interesting that Stoner would indirectly defend the team that let him down in a difficult time in his career. There is more going on there than what meets the eye.

IMO Lorenzo made a better tempered comment to Rossi's switch. http://www.autosport...t.php/id/101791

After all Rossi admitted that it was though to keep up his motivation at Ducati. Hopefully for MotoGP Rossi learned a lesson at Ducati. If he needs a winning bike to be at his best, so be it. He's not the only one to need that. Or was there anybody else riding for Ducati, that put the bike consistently on the podium, or raked in wins besides Stoner?

Just goes to show that these days with all the technology, a rider doesn't make that much of a difference anymore. For me that is more serious issue, than what one rider says over someone's other career.

Personally I'd love to hear from Stoner in his usual frank manner why he could ride that Ducati to success when no one else could so far. Saying because of his talent, is precisely not what is needed, as it just uses the same approach to explain things that Rossi used in his heydays.

#490 hammibal

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 00:59

No, it's Wayne Gardner repeating what Casey Stoner told him.

You really believe that he packed his bags because the team hurt his feelings? You don't think that it had anything to do with a paycheck and a winning bike? Ducati struggled in 2010 and Casey knew that nothing special was in store for 2011.

Well that might be the case but i gave what i believe was Stoner's own reason, i dont understand why you think i'm so ignorant?

#491 Chubby_Deuce

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 01:01

Because you presented it as fact.

#492 hammibal

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 01:12

Because you presented it as fact.

So what reason did Stoner give for Gardiner to state the real reason why Stoner left?

#493 hammibal

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 01:19

So far i've found Marlboro, the title sponsor, not being happy with the nature of Stoner's illness, and Ducati not being happy with the spate of crashes that Stoner was having

#494 lbennie

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 01:37

Because you presented it as fact.


Just as factual as gardner's speculation...


#495 BigCHrome

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 03:56

Just goes to show that these days with all the technology, a rider doesn't make that much of a difference anymore. For me that is more serious issue, than what one rider says over someone's other career.


I don't know about that. It's another excuse for Rossi. All other aliens have been at their regular spots at the front and have dominated like usual.

#496 Lazy Prodigy

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 04:21

What does that have to do with the ducati. Did you forget Rossi was always up there when he was on the Yamaha? Nobody comes out of the debacle worse than ducati who by all accounts have made crappy bikes in that where anyone besides stoner finished eight nd a good day for anyone else was 6th. The fact of the matter is nobody wanted to ride the ducati back in 2009 when these contract scenarios were arising. I can dig up several reports and stories that said both Dani and Jorge didn't want to ride the ducati if they had to leave their factory seats. And don't give me the bogus arguement that they would do a better job than Rossi when we heaped a similar praise on melandri as the new prodigy and if only he had a chance after 2006 saying what could he have done if he was on a factory Honda. The pitiful bike that is ducati would have been off the grid if stoner was still at LRC. Look at Suzuki and Kawasaki spending millions to run around 8th to 12th. Of course none of that takes away from what burgess said but to say Rossi is leaving something on the table is bogus. How ,any times has Rossi pushed and fallen off? What about france? When it was wet Rossi had no problem 'trying harder'. Stoner won he should just accept he is a amazing rider and probably the fastest guy rather than saying something about Rossi's ethics which is just as hypocritical as Rossi about Stoners development skills which is sour.

And the fact that Andrea has to get assurances from Audi rather than anyone in the factory shows how much confidence he has in the people at the ducati factory.

Edited by Lazy Prodigy, 16 August 2012 - 04:26.


#497 seahawk

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 05:14

Nice round-house kick byStoner. Slaming Rossi and also putting down Lorenzo (with the God knows how good the Yamaha is comment). Stoner just sounds bitter imho.

#498 Nova

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 07:01

Nice round-house kick byStoner. Slaming Rossi and also putting down Lorenzo (with the God knows how good the Yamaha is comment). Stoner just sounds bitter imho.


I think he has the right to be bitter towards Rossi and understand the need to gloat. It would be admirable if he didn't, bit human to do.

I'm surprised noone have commented om Lorenzos back handed passiv agressive coments about Rosdis return though.

Edited by Nova, 16 August 2012 - 07:09.


#499 PARAZAR

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 07:31

Well that was a bit unnecessary from Stoner. Also, "the pot calling the kettle black" comes to mind. I'm just waiting if Rossi has anything to say about this little rant.

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#500 GSiebert

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 07:45

Nice round-house kick byStoner. Slaming Rossi and also putting down Lorenzo (with the God knows how good the Yamaha is comment). Stoner just sounds bitter imho.


I guess he has reasons to be bitter, considering how much crap was said about him in 2008-2009, from the medias and from Rossi.