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2012 - MotoGP, WSB, Moto2, WSP, AMA, BSB Part II


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#651 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 18:17

Excellent mid-90s F1 engine tribute.

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#652 Rurouni

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 18:17

Can someone list Spies bad luck this season? Would be nice if the list also contain his potential points lost.

#653 kosmic33

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 18:21

Can someone list Spies bad luck this season? Would be nice if the list also contain his potential points lost.

Try his wikipedia page......

#654 DrProzac

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 18:23

Damn, shame for Spies.
It was a suspension failure in Laguna Seca, BTW?

Good that up to this moment the races are much safer than the practice / qualifying sessions. I hope this continues till the end of this race.

Excellent mid-90s F1 engine tribute.

:lol: Mid 80s too, I think :)

Edited by DrProzac, 19 August 2012 - 18:24.


#655 kosmic33

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 18:23

Excellent mid-90s F1 tribute.

boring race with no artificial gimmicks except with a little overtaking?

#656 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 18:25

No the blowup

#657 Arn

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 18:26

Crutchlow crashes for the 3. time this weekend. Maybe he should count himself lucky not to get a Ducati ride, he could get seriously injured.

#658 hammibal

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 18:34

Crutchlow crashes for the 3. time this weekend. Maybe he should count himself lucky not to get a Ducati ride, he could get seriously injured.

He needs to be careful he may end up getting called Cal Crashlow

#659 rhukkas

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 18:38

Watching this race

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#660 kosmic33

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 18:39

He needs to be careful he may end up getting called Cal Crashlow

Or Cal Creamedbydovizioso

#661 Arn

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 18:54

So few people have posted how a boring race it was, I guess they all fell asleep :lol:

#662 kosmic33

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 18:58

Is Toni Elias paying for his Pramac ride?

There must be at least 30 riders that could do a better job.......

#663 Risil

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 18:59

So few people have posted how a boring race it was, I guess they all fell asleep :lol:


:D

I was really getting into it till Spies blew up. Lorenzo wasn't a factor and Pedrosa's championship challenge has just started though, so food for thought ahead of Brno.

And go Hernandez! Muy bueno. :up: :up:

Edited by Risil, 19 August 2012 - 18:59.


#664 BetaVersion

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 19:28

Stands were quite empty there. Mark my words, Austin won't be much different....

PS: Ban Ajo!

#665 Boxerevo

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 20:36

Damn,i want Stoner to do well until the end now. :mad:

7 races to go... but things a looking better for Honda now... Pedrosa is doing a very good job.

Edited by Boxerevo, 19 August 2012 - 20:37.


#666 Risil

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 20:46

On the podium at every race except Le Mans. Very impressive, and he's added wins now. Maybe the Repsol team has a chance next year after all. :p

#667 GSiebert

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 21:07

Stands were quite empty there. Mark my words, Austin won't be much different....

PS: Ban Ajo!


Well the grandstands are made for the Indy 500, which have around 350 000 spectators, of course it looks empty.

#668 BigCHrome

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 21:57

What a horrible, horrible track. It even managed to make the Moto2 race boring.

#669 BetaVersion

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 23:15

Well the grandstands are made for the Indy 500, which have around 350 000 spectators, of course it looks empty.

It's not only that. It was really empty. I would say, at best, some 20k people, which is very low for MotoGP standards in every European country

#670 BigCHrome

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 23:24

They said 75k on TV.

#671 montoyasminion

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 23:43

They said 65 on the motogp.com feed. I went to this race in 2009 and 2010, and believe me, there is way, way more people there than you see in the grandstands on tv. It was freaking packed in the infield both years I was there. No room to walk. Rest of the track is so spread out it would look empty if there were 200,000 people there. Had an awesome atmosphere as well.

#672 Tonka

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 23:59

Poor Ben

Spies told to shape up or stay at home by Yamaha bosses



#673 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 00:03

Hmmm

Without better context

I was told by someone at Yamaha that if I wasn't going to ride 100 per cent at Laguna, don't show up


Could be taken to mean "if you cant ride at your best stay home and recuperate"

#674 Atreiu

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 00:14

The race wasnt so bad. Spies pushing, Pedrosa taking his time. Stoner going up and than trying to hold Dovi and the rest of the pack behind. Im just glad Lorenzo was in the middle of nowhere when he was held by the backmarker, it would have been a huge shame to have traffic deciding the race like that.

Unless Stoner miracullously recovers and pulls a couple of consecutive wins with Pedrosa behind, its totally over for him. Not to mention there is much more to the calendar then left handed tracks that somehow suit the RC213V. Which is also why Lorenzo doesnt need to panic over Pedrosa. Just keep it up with wins or ether seconds and the title will be his before Valencia, IMO. But I do hope it isnt.

Ben and his garage/bike? I cant understand so much going so wrong.

A fully fit Stoner would have won it easily, if you ask me.

Edited by Atreiu, 20 August 2012 - 00:15.


#675 Chubby_Deuce

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 01:54

Lorenzo was well out of it at that point, he'd have made the pass if Pedrosa were within striking distance.

#676 Seanspeed

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 02:57

Gotta wonder if they cranked up Spies' engine for this weekend and it just went over the edge.

Also sounds like there's a very unhappy relationship there at Yamaha.

#677 bigarthurisgod

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 05:53

Or Cal Creamedbydovizioso

........or Cal Toseland!

#678 rhukkas

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 08:42

The race wasnt so bad. Spies pushing, Pedrosa taking his time. Stoner going up and than trying to hold Dovi and the rest of the pack behind. Im just glad Lorenzo was in the middle of nowhere when he was held by the backmarker, it would have been a huge shame to have traffic deciding the race like that.

Unless Stoner miracullously recovers and pulls a couple of consecutive wins with Pedrosa behind, its totally over for him. Not to mention there is much more to the calendar then left handed tracks that somehow suit the RC213V. Which is also why Lorenzo doesnt need to panic over Pedrosa. Just keep it up with wins or ether seconds and the title will be his before Valencia, IMO. But I do hope it isnt.

Ben and his garage/bike? I cant understand so much going so wrong.

A fully fit Stoner would have won it easily, if you ask me.


I'd hate to watch a race you'd consider dull (maybe zero starters?). MotoGP is getting painfully boring now, and even riders and journalists are acknowledging it now

#679 Youichi

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 11:24

Ben and his garage/bike? I cant understand so much going so wrong.


I hope Vale is bring his mechanics back with him, that side of the Yamaha garage is in desperate trouble this year.


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#680 Disgrace

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 11:32

I'd hate to watch a race you'd consider dull (maybe zero starters?). MotoGP is getting painfully boring now, and even riders and journalists are acknowledging it now


Wrong tense. It's a pity as the change from 800cc has done very little, albeit it's still a step in the right direction. A two-tier race however, is not.

#681 rhukkas

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 11:45

Wrong tense. It's a pity as the change from 800cc has done very little, albeit it's still a step in the right direction. A two-tier race however, is not.


I think engine capacity has very little relevance to racing quality. 125s/250s/500s and the 4-stroke era all has produced good racing. We were led to believe 1000s would produce better racing but it's got worse if anything. I think it's just the electronics and lack of entries of similar parity that's the problem. And that's a problem that has no solution because MotoGP needs manufacturers for prestige and they don't want limited electronics.

Thing about CRT as at the very least avoided the embarrassment of having just 9 MotoGP bikes racing yesterday

Edited by rhukkas, 20 August 2012 - 11:46.


#682 hammibal

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 12:37

........or Cal Toseland!

Well at least Cal is respectively quick

#683 Atreiu

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 13:04

I'd hate to watch a race you'd consider dull (maybe zero starters?). MotoGP is getting painfully boring now, and even riders and journalists are acknowledging it now



I have missed about half the races since I ditched my cable TV. The last dull and suffering race I remember watching is Barcelona 2011.
Racing has suffered for a while, but I think a lot is exagerated and due to unrealistic expectations. People mention eletronics and tyres, what I wonder is why the hell manufacturers are so hell bent on the 21 litres of fuel. What do they still have to prove with it?



#684 hammibal

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 13:10

I have missed about half the races since I ditched my cable TV. The last dull and suffering race I remember watching is Barcelona 2011.
Racing has suffered for a while, but I think a lot is exagerated and due to unrealistic expectations. People mention eletronics and tyres, what I wonder is why the hell manufacturers are so hell bent on the 21 litres of fuel. What do they still have to prove with it?

It makes you wonder, because of the weight bikes are much more fuel efficient than cars anyway

#685 bigarthurisgod

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 13:41

It makes you wonder, because of the weight bikes are much more fuel efficient than cars anyway

It's not as if it's making sports bikes any more efficient, is it? The mpg of most large/medium capacity motorcycles is awful.


#686 hammibal

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 13:44

It's not as if it's making sports bikes any more efficient, is it? The mpg of most large/medium capacity motorcycles is awful.

What sort of mpg do these bikes do?

#687 Risil

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 14:00

People mention eletronics and tyres, what I wonder is why the hell manufacturers are so hell bent on the 21 litres of fuel. What do they still have to prove with it?


For the MSMA teams a lot of their rule-writing is about justifying their slice of the R&D budget from HQ. The details of those negotiations aren't public knowledge (and presumably all take place in Japanese, anyway), but a good exposure of them would make a story I'd run into a burning house to read.

As Dennis Noyes sometimes alludes, the move to 800cc was largely Honda's knee-jerk reaction to arguably the greatest Japanese rider ever dying on one of their bikes at their own circuit. You can see how Honda executives would've wanted action to ensure it wouldn't happen again. And management loves thinking in hard, measurable numbers. IIRC Honda proposed a cut to 380cc in the top class during the, er, height of the trend towards violent highsides in the early '90s.

The 21 litres of fuel thing is based on long-term strategy, not panic. It'll therefore be much more difficult to shift. Fuel efficiency is currently the way to extract racing budgets from the auto and bike manufacturers -- sports prototype racing knows this, Formula One knows this. It will be very difficult for MotoGP to maintain its current levels of investment while dropping the fuel efficiency rules which are clearly standing in the way of the "racing". Unless the works teams discover that they can take in an equal amount of investment from sponsorship and manufacturer marketing (not R&D) budgets, they're never going to give up what amounts to a meal ticket.

For things to change there will have to be a crisis. And judging by some of the apocalyptic comments we've heard from MotoGP insiders about Dorna and their intentions for the CRT rules, I think the various parties are preparing for it.

I take from David Emmett's repeated talk of the new markets in Indonesia and India that he identifies a possible way out of this bind coming from that direction. Motorcycles seem popular there, and the higher-end, big margin bikes will require salesmen. Racing has proven an excellent way of connecting the motorcyclist with the company he's emotionally invested in (Ducati Island at Laguna Seca is a good recent example of this) and may justify a high marketing spend from the big brands. Of course, you also need local riders and local circuits, which takes time and the sort of investment a Spanish media-rights firm is not well-suited to provide. Valentino Rossi is everyone's home rider but he's got no obvious successor. Zulfahmi Khairuddin's career (and connection with Malaysian entrepreneur/enthusiast Tony Fernandes) needs to be watched and documented with interest.

Brazil should be at the forefront of this searching-for-new-markets but the apparent lack of interest in bike racing there -- especially given its status as a car racing stronghold -- is remarkable. I was wondering whether you could share your thoughts on this, you're in a considerably better position to judge. :) Eric Granado in Moto2 seems to have been promoted above his (current) level of competence, what's the story with him? How is it that Alexandre Barros stands almost completely alone among Brazilian bike racers in the modern era?

(conventional apologies for long and rambling post)

#688 Atreiu

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 15:41

Brazil is still all about soccer (which I can barely stand), even our car racing is reduced to Stock Car and nothing else springs to mind. From what I can tell, Barros and Granado are our aliens for simply making it cross the ocean. The guys on TV say Granado just needs to adapt to Moto2. I really don't know if it's only that, I never followed him close enough. =P

#689 Risil

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 15:55

Thanks. :) Last year Granado raced 125s in a strong CEV field that included Rins, Alex Marquez, Antonelli and Fenati. Came fifth in the standings, which is a great achievement. Why he's gone straight into Moto2, when those other names are doing "learning years" in the 250cc class, I don't know.

Edited by Risil, 20 August 2012 - 15:57.


#690 DrProzac

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 16:30

Poor Ben

Spies told to shape up or stay at home by Yamaha bosses

"Add to that his tyre chunking problem and it would seem that if Spies fell into a bucket of tits, he would come up sucking his thumb." :rotfl:

#691 GSiebert

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 18:34

:lol:

However, if he continues to speak about his current bosses that way, I wonder if he'll finish the season.

#692 Chubby_Deuce

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 19:55

Per the post race interview I don't think he'd really mind an extended winter.

#693 PokePoke

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 21:09

"Add to that his tyre chunking problem and it would seem that if Spies fell into a bucket of tits, he would come up sucking his thumb." :rotfl:

The best part:

It has got to a laughing point for me, I'm not even upset about it. It has been so many things one after another and you don't know how to respond to it. After Mugello, when I had food poisoning, that was a bad experience and I tried everything I could there to do what we could to get a result, I was told by someone at Yamaha that if I wasn't going to ride 100 per cent at Laguna, don't show up,"


EDIT: Haslam is not interested CRT seat.
http://www.bikesport...t-in-CRT-for-Ha

Edited by PokePoke, 20 August 2012 - 21:13.


#694 ViMaMo

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 02:42

So Dani is reaching his wins-per-season limit which is 2.5 , his all time record being 4 wins per season in 2010. 7 races left, hmm tough ask for Dani. :lol:

I think Lorenzo really deserves this year's title for being so consistent. 5 wins and 5 second places with 1 DNF.

Edited by ViMaMo, 21 August 2012 - 02:45.


#695 Chubby_Deuce

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 02:49

He's also just 42 points off of his MotoGP career high total.

#696 Chubby_Deuce

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 05:18

The problem was not all down to Rossi, however. Indianapolis is a bad track for Ducati, the bike always suffering at left-handed tracks. "When the track goes left, I have a lot more problems," Rossi said, "I don't feel confident on the left." His only consolation was that he did not crash while pushing, the mistake he had made at Laguna. The Honda and the Ducati appear to be mirror images of one another, the RC213V loving left-handed tracks, losing the chatter which plagues the bike when the corners go right, while the Desmosedici has no feel when the track goes left.


The Ducati engineering department literally got it backwards. :p

#697 GSiebert

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 07:49

I knew some riders prefers turns in a certain direction rather than the other, I didn't know bikes do as well.

#698 Arn

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 07:50

So Dani is reaching his wins-per-season limit which is 2.5 , his all time record being 4 wins per season in 2010. 7 races left, hmm tough ask for Dani. :lol:

I think Lorenzo really deserves this year's title for being so consistent. 5 wins and 5 second places with 1 DNF.

Dont forget that in 2010 he was coming really strong in the second half of the season, only to have a crash in practice at Motegi due to a mechanical failure. Seeing how strong the Honda was that weekend with Dovi, it would not seem unlikely that Dani could easily have won that race.

Also in 2008 he was leading the championship half way through the season only to get injured in a crash while leading a wet race at Sachsenring.

I agree though that Lorenzo is the clear favorite this year. I think Stoner will come strong in the latter part of the season. Aragon, PI and to a little lesser extent Valencia should almost be certain wins for him, so Dani will not take full points in those races. But it only takes a crash to swing the balance but then again, Dani is probably the more likely to crash.

#699 ViMaMo

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 08:04

I knew some riders prefers turns in a certain direction rather than the other, I didn't know bikes do as well.


Maybe due to gyroscopic effects of the engine :confused:


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#700 Chubby_Deuce

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 09:49

Nah, the engine and gearbox spin perpendicular to the axis that the bike turns on, they only make it harder to flick the bike side to side. Seems more like an asymmetrical chassis stiffness thing.