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2012 - MotoGP, WSB, Moto2, WSP, AMA, BSB Part II


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#901 Disgrace

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 22:39

I love Burnicle and Whitham, especially when something crazy happens on screen like the live onboard of Max creaming into Haslam. "... white line entrance OHHHHARRRRGHHHHH!"

Edited by Disgrace, 27 August 2012 - 22:39.


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#902 BigCHrome

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 05:15

Brno is such a great track.

I find BBC commentators very dull, I almost always try to get the Eurosport cast. I wish they'd stop being such UK homers though, I don't need to be reminded of Kent's/Smith's/Redding's/Rea's/Crutchlow's position on every single lap, as well as an excuse as to why they're not winning and why they deserve better bikes.

#903 santori

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 07:50

I don't think I've ever heard Charlie Cox but he can't be worse than WSBK's Jonathan Green. Jonathan Green is almost unbearable. I'm starting to become reluctant to watch WSBK.

#904 GSiebert

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 08:01

I love Burnicle and Whitham, especially when something crazy happens on screen like the live onboard of Max creaming into Haslam. "... white line entrance OHHHHARRRRGHHHHH!"

I love them too, I think their greatest piece of commentary was at Miller this year, when they had to talk for one hour or so, waiting for the marshalls to clean the track, great entertainment, I was laughing almost the whole time. :lol: Without them, WSBK is not the same for me, so I forgive Burnicle for being a bit slow to react sometimes :stoned:

#905 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 08:03

I don't think I've ever heard Charlie Cox but he can't be worse than WSBK's Jonathan Green. Jonathan Green is almost unbearable. I'm starting to become reluctant to watch WSBK.

Charlie Cox is the commentator you hear on the SuperSport coverage of MotoGP.

I agree with you about Jonathan Green. Cox cannot hold a candle to Jonathan Green who is easily the worst commentator I have ever heard who was especially shocking this weekend, he was clearly commentating blind, no sane person could have made the comments he did if he was seeing the same footage we were watching.

#906 Chubby_Deuce

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 08:05

My favorite part about Jonathan Green was listening to how annoyed and dumbfounded Steve Martin would get.

#907 Rob

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 08:14

Charlie Cox is the single reason that I don't watch the BBC any more. The man is unbearable.

Toby and Jules are very good, but throw in Spalders as well and you've got probably the best line up in motorsport.

#908 chunder27

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 09:03

Agreed about Jonathan Green, if ever there was a voice designed to annoy you iy id his!

How do these people get jobs? How on earth does a man with such ridiculous inability to do his job stay employed as let's face it the WSBK series commentator!

ts terrible really, and Steve Martin! Well now that Bayliss has gone he really has little to talk about but owule be so much better with a decent anchor!

Harris and Emmett are not that bad in all honesty, but the Eurosport lot are the best out there. Even fatty Carter is getting better, though is perhaps still not quite there yet as an anchor.

Shame about the BBC team as Matt is fine, Azi is good and I dont mind Parrish with a decent commie, I would honestly have Barry Nutley over Cox!! And thats saying something, but at least he was enthusiastic, even if he did sound like he was working from a script!

#909 Dalton007

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 10:08

Parrish is good, he just needs a better partner. I think COX is suited to BTCC.

#910 Risil

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 14:42

Parrish is good, he just needs a better partner. I think COX is suited to BTCC.


Agree.

Parrish and James Whitham would work. Like Martin Brundle, Whitham's a natural performer/broadcaster, whatever his racing background. It'd be a shame for Eurosport to lose JW but Neil Hodgson's called some races and he's excellent too.

#911 Disgrace

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 15:33

Even fatty Carter is getting better, though is perhaps still not quite there yet as an anchor.


Anchor? I thought he was there as a target during champagne spraying.

#912 Tonka

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 13:10

Suzuki are talking of returning to MotoGP in 2014. If they put in the same effort as they did last time, they might as well not bother. Whoever rides for them is likely to find themselves in a similar dead end as those who've had Ducati seats.



#913 GSiebert

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 13:51

Honda threatens to leave MotoGP for WSBK if the control ECU appears in MotoGP :
http://www.motorspor...togp-hello-wsb/

They sound like Ferrari when they threaten to set up a rival F1 series when they don't get what they want. :D

#914 kosmic33

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 15:59

Honda threatens to leave MotoGP for WSBK if the control ECU appears in MotoGP :
http://www.motorspor...togp-hello-wsb/

They sound like Ferrari when they threaten to set up a rival F1 series when they don't get what they want. :D

I'd be happy to see them leave if it meant a control ECU

They've probably spent more in the last 10 seasons than all the other manufacturers combined.......

#915 Atreiu

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 17:35

Honda threatens to leave MotoGP for WSBK if the control ECU appears in MotoGP :
http://www.motorspor...togp-hello-wsb/

They sound like Ferrari when they threaten to set up a rival F1 series when they don't get what they want. :D



You're not the first one to compare them to Ferrari.

The problem is that they seemed to have got what they want for long enough and look at where MotoGP has headed...

#916 Rob

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 19:10

Apparently Spies signed a letter of intent with BMW for WSBK, but reneged on it.

#917 Tarzaan

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 20:29

Apparently Spies signed a letter of intent with BMW for WSBK, but reneged on it.



Hmmm. Last time I read Ben should go to Gresini 8or Suzuki WSB), and Checa will go to the BMW.

#918 Nova

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 21:43

Hmmm. Last time I read Ben should go to Gresini 8or Suzuki WSB), and Checa will go to the BMW.


Last I "heard" was that Gresini said thanks but no thanks, and Spies was linked to the Ducati jr. team. Blink and you missed five rumors :)

#919 TimRTC

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 05:30

People who say last MotoGP race was great should really watch SBK. Then you know what great racing is. :)


Only because the riders seem to have an addiction to endlessly low siding, most noticable when you watch WSS and they all stay on...

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#920 Andy35

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 06:26

Apparently Spies signed a letter of intent with BMW for WSBK, but reneged on it.



If that's true a I wonder why? Offer from Gresini suddenly appeared or did he know something about Suzuki back in MotoGP in 2014 and wants to do year at Suzuki first in WSB ?

I hope Ben gets a good seat somewhere.

Andy

#921 piszkosfred

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 08:14

:confused:

Honda threatens to leave MotoGP for WSBK if the control ECU appears in MotoGP :
http://www.motorspor...togp-hello-wsb/

They sound like Ferrari when they threaten to set up a rival F1 series when they don't get what they want. :D


The problem is that if they go to WSBK, the situation will be the same there in couple of years like in MotoGP. I wonder where HRC would go then... :rolleyes:

#922 Tarzaan

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 08:20

:confused:

The problem is that if they go to WSBK, the situation will be the same there in couple of years like in MotoGP. I wonder where HRC would go then... :rolleyes:


Hi dirtyfred! :)

IMHO the Ten Kate is a factory team without the HRC logo (but Kyio has one in 09)


Last I "heard" was that Gresini said thanks but no thanks, and Spies was linked to the Ducati jr. team. Blink and you missed five rumors :)



It seems you are right :)

http://www.twowheels...tis-junior-team

Edited by Tarzaan, 30 August 2012 - 08:20.


#923 GSiebert

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 08:27

No Ten Kate is far from being a factory effort. They receive money from Honda Europe but that's all, they develop the bike themselves.
http://www.crash.net...n_the_edge.html

#924 Nova

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 08:58

:confused:

The problem is that if they go to WSBK, the situation will be the same there in couple of years like in MotoGP. I wonder where HRC would go then... :rolleyes:



I can tell you where I'm going. I followed Indy Car, it became a low tech spec series I left. I followed F1, it became a teamorderdriven low spec series I left. I used to watch 250 GP riding, it's now a speck series and popular at that, I don't watch.

I pretty much only follow MotoGP now, and hate the idea of CRT. If we get a control ECU and Honda leaves there will be nothing worth watching in MotoGP for me.

#925 GSiebert

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 09:13

Moto2 isn't a spec series. :p
But yes, I get your point. The bad economic situation hurts motorsports everywhere, the rules maker have to make everything cheaper to keep the grids full and provide a good show to compensate the lack of technical innovation. I guess this will not last forever.

At least bike racing doesn't need sell its soul to the devil with artifacts like DRS or KERS or whatever to provide a good show. Ok MotoGP is dull, but its the only series in that case, everywhere else, you're in for a good race. Take any open wheels category, racing is boring or fake (F1).

Edited by GSiebert, 30 August 2012 - 09:45.


#926 piszkosfred

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 10:07

Fact is that prototype racing is dying. With 3 factories and 12 bikes there's no future at all. HRC wants to race expensive bikes but they can't afford to put enough bikes on the grid. A couple of years ago they run 7 (equal!) bikes on the grid. With these present rules there's no chance other makers will come in. Aprilia had big problems even with those simpler bikes in a decade ago. And the CRTs are a bad idea, because there is a good production bike series, no need for a second one. Cheaper bikes in the only solution.

Edited by piszkosfred, 30 August 2012 - 10:08.


#927 regracing

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 10:58

And the CRTs are a bad idea, because there is a good production bike series, no need for a second one. Cheaper bikes in the only solution.


The CRTs are far removed from production bikes, they are still prototype machines, and IMO the answer to a lot of the problems within the series. I think that motogp needs a basic structure more like F1, where private teams can run and race competitively with the manufacture based teams whilst using their engines/powertrain systems. For example you could have a works HRC bike racing a bike with the same basic HRC engine/powertrain running a Suter, Kalex, FTR, etc chassis/frame with different suspension, brakes etc to the works effort. If the privateer bike wins than the manufacture still gets a lot of the credit, ie in F1 when Red Bull win Renault still use this for achievement fro their own marketing.

#928 hammibal

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 11:59

Hi dirtyfred! :)

IMHO the Ten Kate is a factory team without the HRC logo (but Kyio has one in 09)





It seems you are right :)

http://www.twowheels...tis-junior-team

I just dont understand going from a factory Yamaha bike to a satellite Honda bike or even worse a junior Ducati bike, Yamaha must have really pissed him off

#929 Tonka

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 12:05

I just dont understand going from a factory Yamaha bike to a satellite Honda bike or even worse a junior Ducati bike, Yamaha must have really pissed him off



Given the results of his time in MotoGP, he's lucky to get any kind of offer.



#930 piszkosfred

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 12:11

For example you could have a works HRC bike racing a bike with the same basic HRC engine/powertrain running a Suter, Kalex, FTR, etc chassis/frame with different suspension.


To run a current HRC engine you need the same electronics package as the factories. Probably the same gearbox. Suter can't even do a decent chassis to the BMW superbike engine and he's probably one of the best chassis builder for bikes right now. I know, 20 years ago it worked, but that was the 2-stroke era. The Roberts bike was good in 2006, but Dorna basically forced HRC to give an engine to them to save the team. And again, what's the point of another world champ series using the same superbike engine when there's is already one?


#931 piszkosfred

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 12:15

I just dont understand going from a factory Yamaha bike to a satellite Honda bike or even worse a junior Ducati bike, Yamaha must have really pissed him off


There are articles on various sites that Spies didn't feel happy in MotoGP. If that's right, why he's considering Gresini or Ducati?

#932 Rob

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 12:17

Fact is that prototype racing is dying. With 3 factories and 12 bikes there's no future at all. HRC wants to race expensive bikes but they can't afford to put enough bikes on the grid. A couple of years ago they run 7 (equal!) bikes on the grid. With these present rules there's no chance other makers will come in. Aprilia had big problems even with those simpler bikes in a decade ago. And the CRTs are a bad idea, because there is a good production bike series, no need for a second one. Cheaper bikes in the only solution.


I don't think it matters where the bikes come from as long as they are the quickest bikes. If people want to race a superbike then it's the fault of the factories for making bona fide prototypes too expensive. If a prototype can't beat a superbike then the manufacturer isn't doing a good enough job and shouldn't be protected just because they're throwing money away. If a prototype can beat a superbike then the manufacturer has nothing to worry about. MotoGP should allow any bike, whether it's a prototype or derived from a production model, providing it meets the technical regs.

#933 rhukkas

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 12:39

I don't think it matters where the bikes come from as long as they are the quickest bikes. If people want to race a superbike then it's the fault of the factories for making bona fide prototypes too expensive. If a prototype can't beat a superbike then the manufacturer isn't doing a good enough job and shouldn't be protected just because they're throwing money away. If a prototype can beat a superbike then the manufacturer has nothing to worry about. MotoGP should allow any bike, whether it's a prototype or derived from a production model, providing it meets the technical regs.


x10000

What's wrong with someone turning up and racing their superbike if it fits the technical regs. I don't understand this obsession with the bike having to be a prototype. What difference does it make? If it fits the regs, it fits the regs.

#934 piszkosfred

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 12:41

I don't think it matters where the bikes come from as long as they are the quickest bikes. If people want to race a superbike then it's the fault of the factories for making bona fide prototypes too expensive. If a prototype can't beat a superbike then the manufacturer isn't doing a good enough job and shouldn't be protected just because they're throwing money away. If a prototype can beat a superbike then the manufacturer has nothing to worry about. MotoGP should allow any bike, whether it's a prototype or derived from a production model, providing it meets the technical regs.

I don't think true CRTs (and the Aprilia isn't one of them) will beat a superbike anytime.

#935 Nova

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 12:45

x10000

What's wrong with someone turning up and racing their superbike if it fits the technical regs. I don't understand this obsession with the bike having to be a prototype. What difference does it make? If it fits the regs, it fits the regs.



For me a huge part of my interest is the competition between the bikes. While I can appreciate Spies on a Yamaha, I mostly follow Honda. If there is no real competition in building bikes, like in F1 where Honda made a dud and was not allowed to rectify it for five years, a huge part of the excitement is gone.

#936 rhukkas

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 13:01

For me a huge part of my interest is the competition between the bikes. While I can appreciate Spies on a Yamaha, I mostly follow Honda. If there is no real competition in building bikes, like in F1 where Honda made a dud and was not allowed to rectify it for five years, a huge part of the excitement is gone.


The technical regulations are overly restrictive now. Why can't someone rock up with a 2-stroke or a wankel? Why MUSt they confirm to exactly the regulations Honda/Yamaha want?

That's the thing, right now we don't really have a prototype class. What we have is Formula Honda Prototype, and no one else can come with their own ideas.

#937 Risil

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 14:30

The technical regulations are overly restrictive now. Why can't someone rock up with a 2-stroke or a wankel? Why MUSt they confirm to exactly the regulations Honda/Yamaha want?


Because Grand Prix racing has been organised according to engine capacities since the 1920s, and allowing different kinds of engine cycle makes a mockery of such rules' impartiality? Not saying it wouldn't be desirable, just that instituting a Group C sort of formula would be a huge step into the unknown, and open "Formula Libre" style races don't seem to work in the big leagues.

Edited by Risil, 30 August 2012 - 14:31.


#938 rhukkas

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 17:03

Because Grand Prix racing has been organised according to engine capacities since the 1920s, and allowing different kinds of engine cycle makes a mockery of such rules' impartiality? Not saying it wouldn't be desirable, just that instituting a Group C sort of formula would be a huge step into the unknown, and open "Formula Libre" style races don't seem to work in the big leagues.


The current situation with restricted prototypes isn't working either. Wankels might be a bit of a step into the unknown, but the banning of 2-strokes? Why? Pointless and only serve the interests of the big Japanese manufacturers.

#939 GSiebert

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 19:07

Stoner and his whole team had their ankle operation and they are all fine.

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#940 Obi Offiah

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 19:44

Stoner and his whole team had their ankle operation and they are all fine.

I haven't even read the article, but I'm guessing this is about his overuse of the word 'we'. :lol:

#941 GSiebert

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 20:59

:D

#942 mastropiero

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 21:28

Stoner and his whole team had their ankle operation and they are all fine.


Excellent!!! :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :wave:

#943 BigCHrome

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 21:36

The technical regulations are overly restrictive now. Why can't someone rock up with a 2-stroke or a wankel? Why MUSt they confirm to exactly the regulations Honda/Yamaha want?

That's the thing, right now we don't really have a prototype class. What we have is Formula Honda Prototype, and no one else can come with their own ideas.


Because it would be too expensive. Honda/Yamaha/Ducati/other manufacturers would create and test tens of different engine types just to see which is best.

#944 Tonka

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 21:43

Stoner and his whole team had their ankle operation and they are all fine.


Did they do it in the wee hours?



#945 rhukkas

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 21:52

Because it would be too expensive. Honda/Yamaha/Ducati/other manufacturers would create and test tens of different engine types just to see which is best.


... so what we have now ISN'T prototype racing then, is it? So when people complain about it HAVING to be prototype and CRT sucks... they must realise they are talking boolax


#946 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 23:00

It needs to be something though. Because I can't watch more than a lap of Superbike with any interest. Which is strange because 10 years ago I liked SBK but didn't follow 500s. (Okay so a little more than 10 years ago)

And at the same time if someone was like "Oh I watch F1 when it's on but that Indycar stuff just looks dull" I'd think they were an idiot.

#947 Chubby_Deuce

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 01:50

... so what we have now ISN'T prototype racing then, is it?


What is it then? They're not superbikes and it's not a spec series.

#948 bigarthurisgod

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 05:56

Shock! Horror! Hold t' Front Page!

Stoner in "not saying 'we' shock"

UPDATE: A post-surgery message posted by Stoner on his official Twitter page (@Official_CS27) reads: "Operation went as well as can be expected, all the staff were great also. Now we just have to wait and see how I recover."



#949 Andy35

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 07:26

Stoner and his whole team had their ankle operation and they are all fine.


We think that is very good news indeed

Regards

Andy and Andy and Andy and Andy.

:lol:

#950 goldenboy

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 07:32

Shock! Horror! Hold t' Front Page!

Stoner in "not saying 'we' shock"

painkillers dulling his weeness