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2012 - MotoGP, WSB, Moto2, WSP, AMA, BSB Part II


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#951 GSiebert

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 07:41

It needs to be something though. Because I can't watch more than a lap of Superbike with any interest. Which is strange because 10 years ago I liked SBK but didn't follow 500s. (Okay so a little more than 10 years ago)

What's wrong with SBK ?

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#952 bigarthurisgod

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 09:05

What's wrong with SBK ?

Yeah, Mr Stonefeld, what's up?

WSBK has consistently provided some of the best, most incident packed racing this year, in fact, previous years too? What's not to like?

#953 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 13:47

Dunno, but I can never watch it long enough to get into it. I've literally seen a few laps.

#954 Seanspeed

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 14:52

Dunno, but I can never watch it long enough to get into it. I've literally seen a few laps.

Sounds like chicken and egg problem. You'd probably be more interested if you watched more of it, but you cant watch more of it cuz you're not initially into it.

A BMW is leading the rider's and constructor's championships in WSBK, though. Its been a pretty good season. Definitely worth watching.

#955 BMW4life

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 16:58

I don't think it matters where the bikes come from as long as they are the quickest bikes. If people want to race a superbike then it's the fault of the factories for making bona fide prototypes too expensive. If a prototype can't beat a superbike then the manufacturer isn't doing a good enough job and shouldn't be protected just because they're throwing money away. If a prototype can beat a superbike then the manufacturer has nothing to worry about. MotoGP should allow any bike, whether it's a prototype or derived from a production model, providing it meets the technical regs.


:eek:

The rules for the prototypes and "production" bikes are different.

Regards.

#956 BMW4life

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 17:22

The current situation with restricted prototypes isn't working either. Wankels might be a bit of a step into the unknown, but the banning of 2-strokes? Why? Pointless and only serve the interests of the big Japanese manufacturers.


This is the point Risil is trying to make. With different cycles, you have to make equivalency rules, just like they did when they introduced 4 strokes. Unfortunately for the masses, the equivalency rules were laid out in favor of the 4 strokes, and so everybody migrated to 4 strokes.

Who is to determine the balance of the equivalency rules? Are the equivalency rules for le mans prototypes fair towards petrol powered cars? If you ask Audi, they'll say yes. If you ask Porsche, they'll say no. Are the WSBK equivalency rules fair towards the 4-cylinder bikes? Ask Ducati, they'll say yes, ask everybody else, they'll say no.

In moto gp, they are on the same technical restrictions as everybody else. Nuff said...

#957 goldenboy

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 17:27

Sounds like chicken and egg problem. You'd probably be more interested if you watched more of it, but you cant watch more of it cuz you're not initially into it.

A BMW is leading the rider's and constructor's championships in WSBK, though. Its been a pretty good season. Definitely worth watching.

I have the same problem. Maybe because I don't know any of the riders, or the ones I do know are ex motogp (bit harsh to say rejects). I know it would be better but for some reason can't be bothered to start getting into it. Lets call it my number one NYE resolution at the end of the year.

#958 Risil

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 20:10

I have the same problem. Maybe because I don't know any of the riders, or the ones I do know are ex motogp (bit harsh to say rejects). I know it would be better but for some reason can't be bothered to start getting into it. Lets call it my number one NYE resolution at the end of the year.


I got back into WSBK during the Spies/Haga title battle in 2009. I think if you're new to a series which isn't very visible in terms of media coverage, it's got to have a good narrative if it's going to grab you. World Supersport in 2008-9 was also a fine series, so having an entertaining undercard certainly helped.

Melandri/Biaggi and Aprilia/BMW/Kawasaki isn't really doing it for me this year, and neither is WSS (IMO it's the weakest field out there since the category was invented -- it's beginning to be eroded by Moto2).

#959 Risil

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 20:22

Major bike racing news today: leading Irish road racer Ryan Farquhar announces retirement after uncle's death in Manx GP.

Totally distraught following the death of his uncle and good friend Trevor Ferguson in the Supertwin Manx Grand Prix, Ryan Farquhar has announced that he is to quit road racing.

"I’m finished with racing," he said. "I’ve been at it a long time and I’ve lost a lot of friends, but it’s different when it comes to your own doorstep," said the Dungannon ace who just hours before the incident had won the Senior Classic event for the fifth time.

"This is a sport I love but I can’t risk putting my family through something like that any more – I have to think of them. I’m absolutely gutted."


Saw him at Scarborough last autumn. Very classy rider. I'm beginning to come round to the view of the anti-road racing camp. If the leading rider in your form of motorsport does a Jackie Stewart and refuses to compete anymore on safety grounds, you need to consider radical change. Even just considering the short circuit riders, we nearly lost Steve Plater and Stuart Easton in the last few years. And we all know the story about the road racers in the BSB paddock having the biggest motorhomes, even when their results in the major leagues are nothing special. :well:

I assume the problem is partly one of cornering speeds on modern bikes -- MotoGP knows there are no easy ways of cutting this back. And then there's the matter of perception: the more road racing's media profile shrinks and ghettoizes, the more likely its mainstream coverage will come from reporting on rider fatalities. Very troubling news.

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#960 rhukkas

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 20:34

For MotoGP I personally think have a 25lt limit with fuel (that's all the equilivancy you need), and the rest is open. Breed innovation and engineering excellence.

#961 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 21:13

The fuel thing still stands out as a rule that doesn't make a lot of sense.

#962 wiligates

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 06:12

For MotoGP I personally think have a 25lt limit with fuel (that's all the equilivancy you need), and the rest is open. Breed innovation and engineering excellence.

In a utopian world this is fine but in the crushingly depressing financial world we currently live in only Honda and Yamaha are interested in no holds barred warfare.Even then Yamaha would probably waiver as Honda have deeper pockets.Ducati,Suzuki(if they ever come back)BMW(who said Honda turn them off trying MotoGP racing due to the amount being spent) and all the other manufacturers cannot compete in an open comp without some rules to rein in the biggest players.


#963 paulesko

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 08:39

In a utopian world this is fine but in the crushingly depressing financial world we currently live in only Honda and Yamaha are interested in no holds barred warfare.Even then Yamaha would probably waiver as Honda have deeper pockets.Ducati,Suzuki(if they ever come back)BMW(who said Honda turn them off trying MotoGP racing due to the amount being spent) and all the other manufacturers cannot compete in an open comp without some rules to rein in the biggest players.


When Honda retired from F1, they said that the amount they spent in a single race at the F1 championship, was equal to what they spend in a whole MotoGP championship. So assuming that´s true, if BMW or Ducati (now Audi FWIW) cry about costs, is not because they cannot pay, but because it´s what they have to do: trying to get the same (advertisment, marketing and everything for less money) But that´s assuming Honda´s statement is true, and you can not apply this to Suzuki, probably.

#964 PokePoke

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 11:15

Major bike racing news today: leading Irish road racer Ryan Farquhar announces retirement after uncle's death in Manx GP.



Saw him at Scarborough last autumn. Very classy rider. I'm beginning to come round to the view of the anti-road racing camp. If the leading rider in your form of motorsport does a Jackie Stewart and refuses to compete anymore on safety grounds, you need to consider radical change. Even just considering the short circuit riders, we nearly lost Steve Plater and Stuart Easton in the last few years. And we all know the story about the road racers in the BSB paddock having the biggest motorhomes, even when their results in the major leagues are nothing special. :well:

I assume the problem is partly one of cornering speeds on modern bikes -- MotoGP knows there are no easy ways of cutting this back. And then there's the matter of perception: the more road racing's media profile shrinks and ghettoizes, the more likely its mainstream coverage will come from reporting on rider fatalities. Very troubling news.

In summer 2006, politicians in Brussels almost banned in EU sale of motorcycles with a capacity more than 600 ccm (maximum power 75 horsepower, speed limit at 130 km / h andno more than one or two cylinders) They also wanted to make the roads safer, but does it really solve any problems? :rolleyes: No, and that is why this initiative was met with such big opposition and was rejected.

Is ban of road racing make a difference? No, because many people who race illegally on public roads risking not only their lives that are still other road users will not have many alternatives. Racing on closed circuits is far more expensive than road racing (especially in Central and Eastern Europe, where there is not too many tracks and sponsors) so what say the man who wants to race? "Do other things and enjoy of life"?

For many guys from this part of Europe this is only way to begin legal racing and their careers. At events like this: Zlaty Kahanec Terlicko . Yeah, better alternative is illegal racing

Besides, where is the line between safe and dangerous racing? Why do you think that driving over a hundred miles in some conditions is an unnecessary fad, while others have not? When Moto GP and other races on closed circuits will be too dangerous and unnecessary or even any form of racing on two, three, four wheels? After death of Wheldon many ask why indycars racing on ovals; after death of Jones, Komizaw, Simoncelli many have asked whether motorcycle racing are needed at all.

Road racer are risking their health and lives, as well as F1 driver, NASCAR, IndyCar, motocross riders, enduro racers and MotoGP riders. Risk will always be a part of this sport, and if the players are willing to race on public roads let it do the official events than illegally, where they can get hurt innocent road users.


#965 rhukkas

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 11:26

Major bike racing news today: leading Irish road racer Ryan Farquhar announces retirement after uncle's death in Manx GP.



Saw him at Scarborough last autumn. Very classy rider. I'm beginning to come round to the view of the anti-road racing camp. If the leading rider in your form of motorsport does a Jackie Stewart and refuses to compete anymore on safety grounds, you need to consider radical change. Even just considering the short circuit riders, we nearly lost Steve Plater and Stuart Easton in the last few years. And we all know the story about the road racers in the BSB paddock having the biggest motorhomes, even when their results in the major leagues are nothing special. :well:

I assume the problem is partly one of cornering speeds on modern bikes -- MotoGP knows there are no easy ways of cutting this back. And then there's the matter of perception: the more road racing's media profile shrinks and ghettoizes, the more likely its mainstream coverage will come from reporting on rider fatalities. Very troubling news.


Road racing is very different to F1 in the 60s. F1 drivers were professionals hired by manufacturers to win races. They felt it was an unnecessary risk to race in such a dangerous environment. F1 drivers entered despite of the risk and wanted to improve it, road racers enter because of the risk. It's a very important difference. I would only object if people were put at risk who were not aware of it, or we forced into against their will. Everyone knows the risks.

Road racing is incredibly dangerous, but no one is forcing the drivers to do it. If you want to be the best motorcycle rider int he world there is absolutely no requirement to take such risks, you go the circuit route.

#966 Tonka

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 12:58

Road racing is very different to F1 in the 60s. F1 drivers were professionals hired by manufacturers to win races. They felt it was an unnecessary risk to race in such a dangerous environment. F1 drivers entered despite of the risk and wanted to improve it, road racers enter because of the risk. It's a very important difference. I would only object if people were put at risk who were not aware of it, or we forced into against their will. Everyone knows the risks.

Road racing is incredibly dangerous, but no one is forcing the drivers to do it. If you want to be the best motorcycle rider int he world there is absolutely no requirement to take such risks, you go the circuit route.



Guy Martin has said he doesn't have a problem with being killing doing what he enjoys most.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rsport/17192387


Edited by Tonka, 01 September 2012 - 13:00.


#967 PokePoke

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 16:27

Ending road racing topic - how can you have a problem with road racing, and have nothing against climbing, surfing, FMX or even any combat sports like boxing, where every year many fighters are killed as a result of injuries made with full premeditation by another fighter?

Edited by PokePoke, 01 September 2012 - 17:19.


#968 GSiebert

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 08:25

An interesting move by the AMA SBK, from 2013, electronics will remain free (no control ECU), but with a budget cap of 18.000$.

#969 GSiebert

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 10:02

48 teams submitted a registration form for the 2013 Moto3 championship, for only 32 grid spots available. :eek:

#970 Risil

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 10:08

Ending road racing topic - how can you have a problem with road racing, and have nothing against climbing, surfing, FMX or even any combat sports like boxing, where every year many fighters are killed as a result of injuries made with full premeditation by another fighter?


Tell that to Ryan Farquhar then. I don't watch road racing because it's dangerous, I watch it because it requires extraordinary amounts of skill, you can get closer to the action as a spectator, and the tracks are a lot less sterile than short circuits. However, if the most talented riders are turned off road racing because of its dangers, that reduces its interest for me significantly. Obviously this has been going on since even before Giacomo Agostini in 1973, but the longer the drain goes on, the more it becomes a uniquely fatality-strewn form of club racing. Fifteen years ago you had Fogarty and Hislop racing in the TT, thirty years ago you had most of bike racing's big names. I'd struggle to recognise many riders in the TT field, and one of the most recognisable (who's been brought up here) hasn't had a lot of success, at least not outside of North Yorks.

There's also the problem you mentioned, that banning it might/could end bike racing in Ireland. I sympathise with that but it still makes me uneasy.

#971 bigarthurisgod

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 13:39

Personally, I fall into the "they know the risks" camp. That goes for plenty of other extreme pastimes, not just road racing. Having said that, if my own sons said they wanted to ride at the TT say, then I'd probably change that view but at the end of the day if they're old enough to make their own decisions, that would be it. I have friends with sons serving in Afghanistan and I know what they're going through and that's not something I'd like to experience. Some people see that as a waste of human life, but young men still want to do it knowing how great the risks are.
People need a buzz in this sterile, health and safety dominated world we live in and I can't knock them for that.


Other news............

No hiding under tables in medical centres this time then!

Rossi approached Yamaha....

Edited by bigarthurisgod, 03 September 2012 - 15:44.


#972 kosmic33

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 20:54

Todays Aragon test times
1 Dani Pedrosa 1'47.983 (35 laps) SPA HONDA Repsol Honda Team
2 Jorge Lorenzo 1'48.471 (38 laps) SPA YAMAHA Yamaha Factory Racing Team
3 Ben Spies 1'48.647 (56 laps) USA YAMAHA Yamaha Factory Racing Team
4 Stefan Bradl 1'49.570 (42 laps) GER HONDA LCR Honda MotoGP
5 Jonathan Rea 1'50.679 (69 laps) GBR HONDA Repsol Honda Team

Rea has improved a little more since Brno and at the end of the day I think being 1.1 seconds off Bradl (1.6 off circuit record) on pretty similar machinery is nothing to be ashamed of. Tomorrow should give a better picture of where he stacks up


#973 Chubby_Deuce

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 23:59

Bradl gave the factory spec Honda a try as well and it's thought that he ended up about a second from Pedrosa's fastest time. You'd have to guess that Pedrosa was allowed a qualifying run though with that time and Bradl may not have.

#974 Atreiu

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Posted 05 September 2012 - 00:14

Why would they allow Pedrosa a Q run on a dirty track with no race on the next day? Maybe if he had dome some 50+ laps I would have guessed he took some of them to do Q, but not 35. It really isn't THAT much. IMO.

A second gap between them is perfectly reasonable, Pedrosa has HRC DNA and blood in his system by now. Bradl is a rookie who does well to avoid rookie mistakes and silly crashes from pushing too hard unecessarilly (sp?).

#975 Chubby_Deuce

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Posted 05 September 2012 - 00:48

You're questioning HRC's wisdom in having him do a qualifying run or are you asserting that they didn't and he beat Stoner's pole record by half a second whilst on a longer run?

#976 Atreiu

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Posted 05 September 2012 - 00:58

Aren't these bikes breaking records everywhere?

The press release mentioned dirty track, Pedrosa getting used to lines, suspension/electronic/set up work in general and only 35 laps done. I find it hard to believe they squeeze in some Q laps in the middle of all that with nothing tangible to be gained except topping the time sheet of a lose day of free testing.

I could be wrong.

#977 Andy35

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Posted 05 September 2012 - 06:08

If Redding and Ianone are in MotoGP next year I will be more than happy. Also if Ben stays to join Ianone at Duc Jnr team.

Andy

#978 Chubby_Deuce

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Posted 05 September 2012 - 06:31

Aren't these bikes breaking records everywhere?


Yes but .5 over last year's pole time on a dirty track and a lap that is already short is a big ask without soft tires and low fuel.

In May I posted about a friend that was hurt while racing racing AMA Supersport. Last weekend he made his comeback, just shy of 4 months after his accident and at the track where it happened. He went fast enough to qualify on the front row for Supersport and ended up with a second place to show for his efforts despite starting at the back (we grid based on points, no qualifying). Here's a little video he put together and his feelings about it in his own words. I'll admit, I cried a little during parts of the video. Worth a watch for a kid with a huge heart and a bright future.



So as some know I got pretty hurt at the Infineon AMA round in May. I broke my pelvis in 8 places, broke a vertebrae in my back, and tore my ACL. After having surgery to fix my pelvis I started a pretty long recovery. I had an external fixator for 8 weeks and didn't walk for 11 weeks. This past weekend at Infineon was my first race back and first time on a bike other then a 1 day track day on a stock bike the week before. During the weekend I was a little disappointed, I struggled with speed, I got tired really easily, I had another small crash. I finally ended the weekend with a 2nd in 600 production from the back of the grid and some decent times from the 750 race I ran off in earlier in the day. It was the toughest weekend of racing I've ever had other then the AMA weekend.

I felt like I faced a lot of criticism for racing so early and the speed and quality of which I did so. Looking back on the weekend I probably did come back to soon, I wasn't ready for multiple reasons, but I told myself back when I was still Injured that if it was possible to race before the end of the season I wanted to do it at Infineon. I wanted to over come the left over fear I had of racing at the track that gave me the fear. Overcoming these obstacles were more important to me then results, lap times, or riding style.

Now I've known people who have gotten permanently injured and had close friends die doing this sport. I consider myself really lucky that I was able to recover and extremely grateful. So why exactly was I disappointed at how the weekend went? Why wasn't I just happy to be alive, let alone race? It's so easy being a teenage racer to get caught up in the moment and forget all about what I had been through to be back racing this past weekend. And it wasn't until yesterday when I was making a video for a sponsor that I had to look through pictures and videos of the accident that I realized what I had been through. Then finally I started feeling much more proud of my accomplishments this past weekend, not only as a racer but as a human being. I will not only get back to where I was but better as a racer soon, and I can't wait to make the great group of family, friends, and sponsors around me really proud.

-Cameron Gish #31




#979 bigarthurisgod

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Posted 05 September 2012 - 09:07

Bloody hell, CD, the lad has done well to come back in just 119 days, fair play to him. :clap:

Such an inspirational and thought provoking video too.

All the best to Cameron for the rest of his career. :up:

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#980 goldenboy

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Posted 05 September 2012 - 18:18

4 months?! Must have some kind of wolverine DNA

#981 GSiebert

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 07:54

David Salom replaces Ian Silva at BQR and Ioda switches to the Suter-BMW.

Edited by GSiebert, 06 September 2012 - 07:58.


#982 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 23:01

Have there been any rumours about where Johnny Rock Page might be racing in Europe in 2013?

#983 Chubby_Deuce

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 23:38

Somewhere near Amsterdam probably.

Bloody hell, CD, the lad has done well to come back in just 119 days, fair play to him. :clap:

Such an inspirational and thought provoking video too.

All the best to Cameron for the rest of his career. :up:


Thank you. :up:

Working on getting him a full season of Supersport next year, at least the West Coast series.

#984 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 09:47

@gponedotcom: Davies in BMW a fianco di Melandi: Accordo già firmato ma manca l'ufficializzazione. Incertezza sulla gestione d... http://t.co/7L0xdhM5

Davies in BMW alongside Melandri: agreement already signed but it lacks the formalisation. Uncertainty about managing d....

#985 GSiebert

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 09:52

Never saw that coming.
Not a good news for the ParkingGO team and WSBK, I think they said they'd stop WSBK if they'd lose Davies.

Edited by GSiebert, 07 September 2012 - 09:55.


#986 GSiebert

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 09:58

By the way Iannone lapped quicker than Rossi (about 3 tenths) during his test at Mugello this week.

Edited by GSiebert, 07 September 2012 - 09:58.


#987 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 10:01

but quite a way off the other Ducatis. Brilliant time for his inexperience for the bike though

#988 GSiebert

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 12:19

More Liberty-Effenbert drama : Lanzi replaces Smrz at the Nurburgring round.

#989 Tarzaan

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 13:49

That would be a real WTF:

Cambi di sella in Sbk, Biaggi-Honda?
http://www.theracing...;idnotizia=2941


@gponedotcom: Davies in BMW a fianco di Melandi: Accordo già firmato ma manca l'ufficializzazione. Incertezza sulla gestione d... http://t.co/7L0xdhM5

Davies in BMW alongside Melandri: agreement already signed but it lacks the formalisation. Uncertainty about managing d....


Interesting. I thought Carlos or de Puniet will go there.
http://www.gpone.com...di-Melandi.html


Never saw that coming.
Not a good news for the ParkingGO team and WSBK, I think they said they'd stop WSBK if they'd lose Davies.


IMHO there are several good rider for that bike & I read they might switch to Ducati.

More Liberty-Effenbert drama : Lanzi replaces Smrz at the Nurburgring round.


Would good to know which bike will they ride next year. Stay with Duc, or change to Aprilia/BMW.

#990 Risil

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 15:40

Glad one of the big teams has noticed the brilliant job Davies has been doing this year.

Feels weird to think of Aprilia's WSBK team minus Biaggi.

#991 GSiebert

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 19:20

Le Mans 24 hours
http://www.vipboxspo...eam-online.html
http://www.motoracinglive.com/

#992 Tarzaan

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 08:06

This Biaggi pole is awesome for me, but I'm worried about Mealandri's usual dirty moves. The first corner could be a nightmire...



Nurburgring - Superpole qualifying times

Full Superpole qualifying times for the 12th round of the 2012 eni World Superbike Championship at the Nurburgring, Germany.

http://www.crash.net...ying_times.html

#993 GSiebert

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 08:58

Surprising mistake from La Marra in STK1000, this will tighten the championship.

Edited by GSiebert, 09 September 2012 - 08:59.


#994 PokePoke

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 10:09

What on earth? Checa & Rea lost their bike....

Gugliano & Fabrizio too

Good ride by Sykes & Biaggi.

EDIT: Great fight between Davies & Laverty

EDI2: Melandri out...

Edited by PokePoke, 09 September 2012 - 10:13.


#995 GSiebert

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 10:15

Bizarre race

#996 PokePoke

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 10:18

Like always in this track.

Great fight for 1st place between Biaggi and Sykes.

Edited by PokePoke, 09 September 2012 - 10:19.


#997 GSiebert

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 10:26

Looks like the Kawa is eating his tires again.

#998 PokePoke

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 10:29

Yeah, even Laverty overtake Tommy.

#999 EvanRainer

EvanRainer
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Posted 09 September 2012 - 10:41

I doubt there was anyone watching the race who didn't predict that Sykes would eat up his rear and go backwards eventually.

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#1000 Risil

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 10:42

Hodgson on Eurosport says Sykes running out of grip would have him sliding round a lot more. Suspects a mechanical problem.