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2012 - MotoGP, WSB, Moto2, WSP, AMA, BSB Part II


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#1151 GSiebert

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 13:09

What a bizarre looking podium.

Yes, orange and blue, quite unusual.

Edited by GSiebert, 16 September 2012 - 13:09.


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#1152 pRy

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 13:16

Burgess going to Yamaha next year. Just told BBC he will 'probably be in blue'.

#1153 Atreiu

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 13:18

What happened to Pedrosa?

#1154 Hippo

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 13:21

What happened to Pedrosa?

His crew couldn't get the tire warmer off in time for the 2nd start. So he had to start from the back of the grid. And then hectic Hector forgot to brake and crashed him out half way around the first lap.

#1155 SteF1an

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 13:21

Very sorry for Pedrosa. :|
Championship chances just went away...

#1156 Chubby_Deuce

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 13:23

Had trouble getting away for the first warm up lap. Tire warmer looked like it got caught in the front fender for the second one and the guy just kept tugging at it instead of trying to roll the wheel backwards. They pushed it behind the wall momentarily and then back out once it was fixed. Warm up lap starts and his bike looked like it was confused about where it was, like the ECU wasn't set correctly after the panic. Got around but too late to grid up at the front. Started from the back and was making progress until Hector Barbera thought it a good idea to try to follow him past de Puniet and ended up torpedoing him instead.

#1157 Atreiu

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 13:28

Sucks... There goes the championship.

#1158 Risil

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 13:37

Getting a tyre warmer stuck on the front mudguard doesn't sound particularly Honda Racing Corporation, does it? As Charlie Cox said, that's the kind of thing you'd expect to happen to Ben Spies.

#1159 HP

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 13:40

But then the anti-Rossi crowd will have to hear about how it's Rossi's baby.;)

If Hayden doesn't get anywhere near Rossi in the next few races, like today, we will hear about only Rossi being able to ride that bike. The ensuing discussion and comparison to another former Ducati rider will get interesting :smoking:


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#1160 Chubby_Deuce

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 13:50

Getting a tyre warmer stuck on the front mudguard doesn't sound particularly Honda Racing Corporation, does it? As Charlie Cox said, that's the kind of thing you'd expect to happen to Ben Spies.


That's what I was thinking. He just kept tugging away at the warmer and then started lifting on the front end instead of just rolling the wheel backwards to free up the warmer.

If Hayden doesn't get anywhere near Rossi in the next few races, like today, we will hear about only Rossi being able to ride that bike. The ensuing discussion and comparison to another former Ducati rider will get interesting :smoking:


:lol:

Was Hayden on the new bike? Never did hear. Comparison is useless here anyway.

#1161 montoyasminion

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 15:10

I couldn't believe I was seeing something like that out of HRC. That was crazy. If I were Dani, I don't know who I would be more pissed at, Barbera or the guy who is supposed to take the tire warmer off.

#1162 Seanspeed

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 15:16

Sucks... There goes the championship.

I wasn't really worried about the championship too much. I really wanted Lorenzo to win it anyway.

I *did* want to see an entertaining race, though.... :|

#1163 DrProzac

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 15:42

Very sorry for Pedrosa. :|
Championship chances just went away...

Yeah, it's a shame it was / is his bets season in MotoGP, isn't it?
Though Lorenzo also had a DNF due to Bautista. So I guess it makes it even.

Nice to see Rossi and Dukati back on the podium after a normal dry race.

Edited by DrProzac, 16 September 2012 - 15:43.


#1164 hulmerist

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 16:59

I wasn't really worried about the championship too much. I really wanted Lorenzo to win it anyway.

I *did* want to see an entertaining race, though.... :|


You're probably watching the wrong series then

#1165 Hippo

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 17:10

Nice to see Rossi and Dukati back on the podium after a normal dry race.

Well, "normal" might be a bit misplaced here. It's good for him, that he has finally found a way to ride that thing faster than the Honda and Yamaha satellites are. A step forward. Yet, with that pace he can only score podiums as long as Casey is injured or freak stuff happens to the real podium candidates. A good day for Rossi no question, but let's not hype it beyond what it really was.

#1166 Chubby_Deuce

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 17:17

Dovizioso has been scoring podiums all year long, if Ducati can maintain this pace at other tracks then there's no reason to claim that Rossi isn't a "real podium candidate".

#1167 Hippo

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 17:31

Come on, with the exception of Catalunya maybe all of Dovi's podiums fell to him because others had some issues. In Assen, Germany and Indy he profited from crashs and in Mugello he profited from Casey's run through the gravel. He got those podiums, because he was first of the rest.. Not because he was one of the 3 fastest.

Okay, maybe Rossi can luck into more podiums like that if he really is fastest of the rest now. But I wouldn't get my hopes too high...

#1168 DrProzac

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 17:43

Well, "normal" might be a bit misplaced here. It's good for him, that he has finally found a way to ride that thing faster than the Honda and Yamaha satellites are. A step forward. Yet, with that pace he can only score podiums as long as Casey is injured or freak stuff happens to the real podium candidates. A good day for Rossi no question, but let's not hype it beyond what it really was.

Why misplaced? It's nothing special that one of the riders in front has a DNF and even with Pedrosa on the podium Rossi would still be third. OK, if Stoner was fit and racing it would be much harder :p Or perhaps you're referring to lack of dry practice time? That's actually a good point but still it's the same for everyone and Rossi actually had nice pace. Hayden would probably be there too if not the injury.
It's was much better than before, that's all. Nothing more, nothing less :)

I think that your "hype" comment is much more misplaced.

Edited by DrProzac, 16 September 2012 - 17:44.


#1169 Chubby_Deuce

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 17:58

Come on, with the exception of Catalunya maybe all of Dovi's podiums fell to him because others had some issues. In Assen, Germany and Indy he profited from crashs and in Mugello he profited from Casey's run through the gravel. He got those podiums, because he was first of the rest.. Not because he was one of the 3 fastest.

Okay, maybe Rossi can luck into more podiums like that if he really is fastest of the rest now. But I wouldn't get my hopes too high...


He's podiumed in nearly 40% of the races this year. Sorry, that isn't luck.

Nobody is gonna walk in here and say that Ducati is suddenly on level terms with Honda and Yamaha but 4th in line is perfectly reasonable with Ben Spies busy jerking off all race long. With Casey's inconsistency this year and now his injury that very quickly translates into well deserved podiums.

#1170 TFLB

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 23:27

The BBC commentators were unbearable today. Among other things, they were far too harsh on Barbera (although he was clearly at fault). Saying 'he's a crashfest to be honest' is going a bit far, especially when they are always looking for excuses for their beloved Cal. Also, when Cal crashed, they said 'lets just get this race done and get out of here', which is not the greatest thing for a commentator to say.

#1171 kosmic33

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 00:02

The BBC commentators were unbearable today. Among other things, they were far too harsh on Barbera (although he was clearly at fault). Saying 'he's a crashfest to be honest' is going a bit far, especially when they are always looking for excuses for their beloved Cal. Also, when Cal crashed, they said 'lets just get this race done and get out of here', which is not the greatest thing for a commentator to say.

I normally never watch BBC but since Eurosport weren't showing the race till 4 I couldn't wait.

They're terrible and at times seem to have absolutely no idea about the sport.
They didnt even realise that the race had started till Lorenzo was going round the 1st corner.......

#1172 Chubby_Deuce

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 01:20

Gavin and Nick have been spending more and more time fawning over the Brits as well, ever since Cal started earning a few decent results. I think someone probably needed to hit the booth with a mop and bucket after qualifying on Saturday.

#1173 Chubby_Deuce

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 04:13

http://www.motomatte...d_up_pedro.html

Great explanation of what happened to Pedrosa there. HRC has got to be embarrassed, sounds like there was zero communication during the restart. The IRTA told all of the teams what was happening but it never got to Dani? Turning on the pit limiter once the bike was pushed in shows attention to detail but again, did anyone tell Dani? Then there's the issue of the tire warmer in the first place.

More good news for Rossi fans that Lorenzo wasn't taking it too easy. Mistakes can happen at any speed but he did spend most of the race around his warm up time where he had no reason to take it easy.

We'll see at Aragon. :)

#1174 Risil

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 12:16

More good news for Rossi fans that Lorenzo wasn't taking it too easy. Mistakes can happen at any speed but he did spend most of the race around his warm up time where he had no reason to take it easy.


Good news for Dovizioso, Hayden, Spies and Iannone fans too. As for Rossi, unless the bump in Ducati's form comes from the test time they had at Misano last week, I think he's in the position where he can score a capitalising-on-others'-mistakes victory. Remember Motegi and Assen last year? That would go some way to making the Rossi/Ducati split an amicable one.

#1175 piszkosfred

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 12:54

Good news for Dovizioso, Hayden, Spies and Iannone fans too. As for Rossi, unless the bump in Ducati's form comes from the test time they had at Misano last week, I think he's in the position where he can score a capitalising-on-others'-mistakes victory. Remember Motegi and Assen last year? That would go some way to making the Rossi/Ducati split an amicable one.


Also, there is a good chance of a wet race at Montegi or Sepang.


#1176 Chubby_Deuce

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 13:08

Good news for Dovizioso, Hayden, Spies and Iannone fans too. As for Rossi, unless the bump in Ducati's form comes from the test time they had at Misano last week, I think he's in the position where he can score a capitalising-on-others'-mistakes victory. Remember Motegi and Assen last year? That would go some way to making the Rossi/Ducati split an amicable one.


Yep, especially now that Lorenzo can afford to back off some now. If things were to get wet then I really can't imagine Lorenzo going after 25 points even if it meant giving some up to Dani.

Funny thing that someone on Motomatters pointed out -

Hector Barbera after hitting Dani:

Unfortunately, when I followed Dani’s wheel I lost my braking point and hit the brakes far too late. I tried to slow the bike down, but I lost grip on the front. I’m very disappointed, even more so because I took out Dani in the process and that was the last thing that I wanted to happen. It was my fault that he crashed out and I apologise profusely to him for that.


Alvaro Bautista after hitting Jorge:

Unfortunately, when I followed Dovizioso’s wheel I lost my braking point and hit the brakes far too late. I tried to slow the bike down, but lost grip on the front and lowsided. I am very disappointed, even more so because I took out Lorenzo in the process and that was the last thing that I wanted to happen. It was my fault that he crashed out and I apologise profusely to him for that.


Do Pramac and Gresini share a PR agency that handle their releases or something? Even so it seems strange that they'd have a canned "Oops I ran into a championship contender" statement ready to go at all times.

#1177 GSiebert

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 13:14

They must have an "PR Apology Generator", just enter the parameters (rider you were following and rider you crashed into) and you get your perfect PR comment. :cool:

#1178 Risil

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 13:16

:rotfl:

I always sort of wondered how a predominantly Spanish- and Italian-speaking paddock churned out so much English press material. Turns out the answer is "Cheaply".

Most likely explanation I think is that Bautista and Barbera share a PR agency, and they used the one from Assen as a template, given that the situations were near-identical. Although if this hypothetical PR agency also covers Spaniards in Moto2 and 3, it might pay to have such canned responses to hand. Wonder why it is that Bautista calls his victim "Lorenzo", whereas Barbera's on first-name terms with Pedrosa?

Edited by Risil, 17 September 2012 - 13:17.


#1179 Mackey

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 13:47

In the spanish TV they said that Bradl has a newer Honda specification than Bautista (they said he had updates from Stoner´s bike). If that is true then a big :up: to Bautista.. shame Honda doesn´t want 3 spanish riding for them and he probably will be without a ride next year.

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#1180 DS27

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 14:05

I wonder if the improvements made to the Ducati - assuming they are genuine and not one offs - will have any negative affect, however slight, on how it performs in the wet, given that it has looked very handy at times this year.

Not a particular Rossi fan any more, but would still like to see him pick up a win before heading back to Yamaha - it would be good for the sport.

#1181 DrProzac

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 15:08

We have to remember that Rossi had two days of testing which could have been a big advantage given the lack dry practice time. I guess we'll soon know if it's a permanent improvement for Ducati or not.

Funny thing that someone on Motomatters pointed out -
Hector Barbera after hitting Dani:

Alvaro Bautista after hitting Jorge:

Do Pramac and Gresini share a PR agency that handle their releases or something? Even so it seems strange that they'd have a canned "Oops I ran into a championship contender" statement ready to go at all times.

:rotfl: It's hard to believe, looks like a joke :drunk:

#1182 Chubby_Deuce

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 16:16

The PR agency apologizes profusely for the mistake.

Quick note about Bradl, he was apparently losing pressure in the front tire which is why he dropped off. I did think that was strange, given that he was huffing Rossi's exhaust for the first part of the race and looked comfortable.

#1183 FlashMaster

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 16:37

In the spanish TV they said that Bradl has a newer Honda specification than Bautista (they said he had updates from Stoner´s bike). If that is true then a big :up: to Bautista.. shame Honda doesn´t want 3 spanish riding for them and he probably will be without a ride next year.


You can't hold your pace if your front tyre loses it's pressure

http://www.motorspor...n_12091611.html

#1184 GSiebert

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 17:31

Very good photoshopping on the official website :lol:
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#1185 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 06:05

Posts deleted. Please take private discussion to PM!

#1186 Rob

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 11:47

Tech 3 are probably going to be running Danny Kent and Louis Rossi in Moto2 next year.

#1187 GSiebert

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 12:01

Stoner : "I dream of driving in V8 Supercars since I was 12. I had this opportunity last year and this is something I absolutely want to do again in the future. It is the next goal in my career, but first we'll have to see if I am fast enough. I do not intend to compete in the main series right from the start, it's not correct and not how you're suppoed to do it. First I am going to race in the Development Series, and spend lot of time in the car to get used to it".

http://www.sport-bik...re--_a4679.html

#1188 Risil

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 12:17

Casey :up:

Let's hope he hits fewer things that Wayne Gardner did

#1189 Chubby_Deuce

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 12:47

Tech 3 are probably going to be running Danny Kent and Louis Rossi in Moto2 next year.


Herve finally showing his patriotic side? Can't see any other reason to put Rossi on a bike that, despite what you've heard here, is one that plenty of guys would love to have considering the path it could provide to MotoGP.

Hopefully Kent goes better than the last British #52 that rode for Tech 3.;)

#1190 Youichi

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 13:28

Herve finally showing his patriotic side? Can't see any other reason to put Rossi on a bike that, despite what you've heard here, is one that plenty of guys would love to have considering the path it could provide to MotoGP.

Hopefully Kent goes better than the last British #52 that rode for Tech 3.;)


I don't see the reasoning for signing Kent, he's been whooped by Cortese in Moto3 ?

And neither rider will do better than Bradley if Tech3 don't improve the bike, Bradley is regularly 0.5s a lap quicker than last year on a bike that hasn't majorly changed since race 1 last year, the problem being that all the other bikes are going 1.5s a lap faster....

#1191 Risil

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 13:38

Herve finally showing his patriotic side? Can't see any other reason to put Rossi on a bike that, despite what you've heard here, is one that plenty of guys would love to have considering the path it could provide to MotoGP.


Oh, sure, plenty of riders want to have it. Just not the ones who're interested in winning races. ;)

Then again, Smith had a pretty good chance to win at Mugello and Silverstone last year. His height doesn't help him in what's a very underpowered class, either.

The front of the Moto2 field is gonna look very strange without Marquez and Iannone next year. Aside from Pol Espargaro there's no one I can think of who's going to be a cert for regular victories. Vinales, presumably. His career is beginning to resemble the early GP years of Marco Melandri...

#1192 Rob

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 13:46

I don't see the reasoning for signing Kent, he's been whooped by Cortese in Moto3 ?


He says he's too big for a Moto3 bike.

#1193 Chubby_Deuce

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 14:07

I don't see the reasoning for signing Kent, he's been whooped by Cortese in Moto3 ?

And neither rider will do better than Bradley if Tech3 don't improve the bike, Bradley is regularly 0.5s a lap quicker than last year on a bike that hasn't majorly changed since race 1 last year, the problem being that all the other bikes are going 1.5s a lap faster....


Well, we'll get a better idea next year of how much the bike was to blame. I just get the feeling that Herve wouldn't dick around with neat experiment at the cost of performance. They could buy a Suter, FTR or Kalex no problem. Then again if they felt it were Bradley lacking pace then promoting him wouldn't make sense either. :drunk:

The front of the Moto2 field is gonna look very strange without Marquez and Iannone next year. Aside from Pol Espargaro there's no one I can think of who's going to be a cert for regular victories. Vinales, presumably. His career is beginning to resemble the early GP years of Marco Melandri...


Didn't I hear that Vinales is doing another year in Moto3?

Luthi has had a strong season once again and only trails Pol by 24 points. Not sure he's going to find any more speed but on a good day he can challenge Pol. Zarco seems to have the pace at times but not the consistency, maybe that will change. Nakagami is a youngster and has shown moments of good pace. Then there are some other 'older' guys that could find the right equipment to do well again, thinking de Angelis, Corsi, Simon, Elias is he rides, Neukirchner if he remembers how to ride, Takahashi etc.

That being said I think it's very likely that Pol will have an 'easy' season like Marquez did in 2011. Oh... wait...

I think we're on for some amazing Moto2 racing in 2014 though when Vinales, Fenati, Rins, Antonelli, Folger, Marquez etc. are all matured and ready to make the move up.

Edited by Chubby_Deuce, 18 September 2012 - 14:08.


#1194 Seanspeed

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 14:17

I don't see the reasoning for signing Kent, he's been whooped by Cortese in Moto3 ?

And neither rider will do better than Bradley if Tech3 don't improve the bike, Bradley is regularly 0.5s a lap quicker than last year on a bike that hasn't majorly changed since race 1 last year, the problem being that all the other bikes are going 1.5s a lap faster....

How has Tech 3 not changed the bike in 2 years? This isn't some back-of-the-grid, no budget outfit.

I mean, is it really that dire at the team, or are maybe a lot of people putting a little too much blame on the bike?

#1195 kosmic33

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 14:27

Neukirchner if he remembers how to ride

What actually happened Max anyway?
He was a WSB frontrunner, broke his leg, and as Chubby said, forgot how to ride.

Bit like Poggiali, 125 & 250 champion (250 at his first attempt) and basically fell apart after that.....

#1196 Risil

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 14:37

Didn't I hear that Vinales is doing another year in Moto3?


You may well have done. :) He's young enough and well-funded enough to be able to stay in Moto3 until he's ready to strike like the coiled scorpion. And for a 17-year-old there's really no hurry.

I don't think Espargaro will necessarily dominate but whoever challenges him will count for me as a pleasant, Bradl-like surprise. Either because they'll be a youngster who's taken a big step forward, or because they're old and apparently past-it.

#1197 Risil

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 14:42

What actually happened Max anyway?
He was a WSB frontrunner, broke his leg, and as Chubby said, forgot how to ride.


There was also a serious back injury during a test session at Imola, while he was preparing for his WSBK return. Same year as Regis Laconi's career-ending accident.

#1198 GSiebert

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 14:52

I just get the feeling that Herve wouldn't dick around with neat experiment at the cost of performance. They could buy a Suter, FTR or Kalex no problem. Then again if they felt it were Bradley lacking pace then promoting him wouldn't make sense either. :drunk:

The Tech3 Moto2 bike is mostly Guy Coulon's project. He was tired of MotoGP, where private teams basically cannot touch the bikes appart from cleaning them, and wanted to built his own bike to have that freedom again (that's why he was thinking of a Tech3 CRT for a time). I very much doubt he'd chose to buy another chassis.

Edited by GSiebert, 18 September 2012 - 14:55.


#1199 Chubby_Deuce

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 15:13

There was also a serious back injury during a test session at Imola, while he was preparing for his WSBK return. Same year as Regis Laconi's career-ending accident.


Forgot about that. Seems like if the injuries are keeping him from performing then the risk/reward bit has to be tipping towards not worth it. :(

You may well have done. :) He's young enough and well-funded enough to be able to stay in Moto3 until he's ready to strike like the coiled scorpion. And for a 17-year-old there's really no hurry.

I don't think Espargaro will necessarily dominate but whoever challenges him will count for me as a pleasant, Bradl-like surprise. Either because they'll be a youngster who's taken a big step forward, or because they're old and apparently past-it.


Agreed. It's especially hard to forecast these things in Moto3 and Moto2 with so much potential for those big steps forward. One thing I forgot to include was the possibility of someone coming in from a national series, WSS or STK600. You just never know.

The Tech3 Moto2 bike is mostly Guy Coulon's project. He was tired of MotoGP, where private teams basically cannot touch the bikes appart from cleaning them, and wanted to built his own bike to have that freedom again (that's why he was thinking of a Tech3 CRT for a time). I very much doubt he'd chose to buy another chassis.


It still requires an assload of cash to do, though. Even if Guy is doing the design work on his own time you're only cutting out a small chunk of the overall budget to build and run the bikes at the track.

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#1200 Seanspeed

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 15:25

What actually happened Max anyway?
He was a WSB frontrunner, broke his leg, and as Chubby said, forgot how to ride.

Bit like Poggiali, 125 & 250 champion (250 at his first attempt) and basically fell apart after that.....

Also, I think that Suzuki he was doing well on was much better than the riders they got to ride em. In the right hands, I think they could have won a championship or two with it.