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2012 - MotoGP, WSB, Moto2, WSP, AMA, BSB Part II


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#1251 Chubby_Deuce

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 00:30

What was the alternative to CRT bikes? Carmello pays the OEMs to produce more bikes and gives them away to privateers?

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#1252 ehagar

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 01:23

I'll get jumped on for this but how impressive was Rea really? The last time a Superbike racer stepped in was Hayes and Nakasuga last year at Valencia. That was also a mixed weather weekend and in Hayes' case his very first time on the bike. Nakasuga came home 24 seconds behind Stoner and Hayes was 33 seconds back. Rea finished 43 seconds behind Lorenzo in a race with a shorter overall elapsed time. Johnny knew Misano, not sure that Josh or Nakasuga knew Valencia.

Not saying that Johnny is rubbish but I didn't understand the glowing reviews that he got. Cal Crutchlow finished 34 seconds back from the leader in his first GP after having I believe 2 days more of testing then Johnny did? *shrug* For sure he'd get faster but I can't imagine that anyone is blowing his phone up trying to get him on their bike for next year just based on Misano.


I like Rea but I have to agree with you there. With the size of the factory/satellite grid, an 8th place finish doesn't mean much at all. He even finished behind the guy with a bum throttle hand. He beat the CRT bikes. He should beat the CRT bikes.

Edited by ehagar, 23 September 2012 - 01:23.


#1253 Tarzaan

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 08:48

Wet race again...

:(

#1254 GSiebert

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 09:27

Go Sykes :D

#1255 Tarzaan

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 09:40

Wet race again...

:(



The track conditions might be to wrong for racing...

#1256 GSiebert

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 10:32

This Assen BSB round is a success attendance-wise :up:

#1257 Tarzaan

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 10:49

Watch this:

http://in.news.yahoo...e-30653817.html



#1258 GSiebert

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 11:08

Melandri is trying hard not to win this championship :rolleyes:

#1259 PokePoke

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 11:09

WOw, Melandri crash at 2nd lap of 1st race. Meanwhile fighting for 2nd place with Rea.


_-------------------

Great 1st race BSB at Assen.

EDIT: Red Flag at Portimao.....

Edited by PokePoke, 23 September 2012 - 11:20.


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#1260 Tarzaan

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 11:21

Why we have this Red flag? Bacause Biaggi's win were bad for the championship?

IMHO Melandri's fall was his fault.

#1261 GSiebert

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 11:21

Oil on track after Brignola's fall apparently.

#1262 Tarzaan

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 11:24

Oil on track after Brignola's fall apparently.



Thx, I see it now.

What comes next?

Aggragate race or a brand new one with shorter race distance?

#1263 GSiebert

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 11:30

Yep new race with only the remaining laps. Aggregate races don't exist in any series anymore I believe.

#1264 Tarzaan

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 11:40

Yep new race with only the remaining laps. Aggregate races don't exist in any series anymore I believe.



Thx.

Baz to stay with Kawasaki for 2013
http://www.crash.net...i_for_2013.html

Edited by Tarzaan, 23 September 2012 - 11:41.


#1265 Tarzaan

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 11:49

Michael Guy ‏@michaelguyMCN
Tyre choice is going to be a massive factor now. I expect to see a bit of everything, but those wanting to win will be opting for slicks!

HondaWorldSuperbike ‏@HondaWorldSBK
Not much water now on racing line, but not little enough to warrant a slick. Pit lane opens in 11 mins.

#1266 Tarzaan

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 12:44

Good race from Sykes & the Ducs.

Biaggi 331
Sykes 316.5 (+14,5)
Melandri 308.5 (+22,5)

#1267 GSiebert

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 13:52

Good thing Biaggi cannot win the title in race 2, it will be decided at Magny Cours and i'll be there :smoking:

#1268 GSiebert

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 14:39

Oh well Melandri didn't start race 2 (injured kidney ?) and Syke's engine blew, championship over.

#1269 Tarzaan

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 15:24

Bad luck in sykes, Laverty & Rea had a good race. Max is very close for the title:

Max Biaggi 347

Tom Sykes 316,5 (+30,5 points)

Marco Melandri 308,5 (+38.5 points)

Edited by Tarzaan, 23 September 2012 - 15:25.


#1270 ehagar

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 15:35

Well done for Brett McCormick.

#1271 Tarzaan

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 17:08

Fabrizio back to Ducati with Red Devils deal
http://www.crash.net...evils_deal.html

#1272 DS27

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 18:37

Poor old Tom - just when it looked like it was on.

Can't see Max throwing it away now.

Shame for Davies as well, but he clearly has the pace and will be interesting to watch on the BMW next year

BSB all to play for now as well, though Shaky looks favourite to me with his form round Brands.

Edited by DS27, 23 September 2012 - 18:39.


#1273 PokePoke

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 19:52

I just found a great article about ZX-10R 2012:
The Contender

... If the 2011 Kawasaki was a highly promising traditional Superbike, complete with rev-happy in-line four-cylinder screamer motor, this year’s version is a MotoGP bike in drag...


...Kawasaki has taken full advantage of both these opportunities, and to do so its engineers have
called upon their MotoGP experience. The new ZX-10R that made its debut last year was the fruit of that, and now in its second season of competition it’s been further refined into a competitive package using KHI’s MotoGP experience.
The Sykes Superbike’s RBW program is based on the ZX-RR GP bike’s, says Yoda [Kawasaki’s Superbike Project Director], and the mechanical improvements to the engine, including the lighter crank, improved cylinder head porting and detail changes that have resulted in a 4 hp-greater 236 hp power output (delivered at 14,600 rpm to the countershaft sprocket) – but with a much faster engine response than before, thanks to the lighter crank – are also the direct product of Kawasaki’s MotoGP R&D...



#1274 GSiebert

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 14:41

Honda getting serious about WSBK ?

Josh Ayes won another AMA title this weekend at Miami. I'd like to see what he can do in WSBK.

Edited by GSiebert, 24 September 2012 - 14:48.


#1275 Chubby_Deuce

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 14:58

Martin Cardenas also clinched the DSB title as Jake Gagne (former CEV Moto2 racer) took his first win in the class. Cameron Beaubier has basically dominated (granted Martin hasn't needed to push) the class since coming back from injury, makes you wonder what he could have done otherwise. He did tell me that he's locked in with Yamaha for another year though so hopefully he'll carry the momentum on and do the deed next year. After that I'd really like to see him back in Europe for Moto2 or WSS.

Hayes is getting up there in age but I wouldn't totally rule out a move to Europe. He's not signed a deal for next year but has said that he can't imagine signing anywhere else but with Graves/Yamaha, just a matter of working out how much money you give to a guy that has won like 90% of the races this year. However he's not totally anchored to home like other guys his age might be. His wife is a racer and a bit younger, couldn't imagine that she'd put her foot down and may enjoy racing in a European national series. No kids. Loves cycling and probably wouldn't mind a place like Spies has for mashing pedals.

The Honda V4 rumor seems like it has been around since they stopped making the RC51. Maybe it's true this time but I wouldn't hold my breath.

#1276 GSiebert

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 15:12

2 years ago I thought Blake Young was the new US rising star but he still can't beat Ayes, is it more down to the bike, the team or the rider you think ?

#1277 Chubby_Deuce

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 15:42

A bit of both of the latter but mostly down to Blake I think. The team definitely doesn't have the money that they did after losing Rockstar and Makita but they're still a top team with great equipment and talent. Blake started the year off right there again and won some races but then from Miller until now he's just lost a bunch of pace somewhere. It's not that Hayes got that much faster, it's that Young started going slower to the point where Herrin and the Jordan boys started to catch him on a regular basis. I've heard that he and Kevin Schwantz are no longer involved (I know that they still were at at Sears Point, the race just before Miller) so maybe that's indicative of some off-track drama.

#1278 GSiebert

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 20:01

Ok :) Too bad, he was the only young promising rider in this class, whose average age must be around 35 or so :D But we'll see was Herrin can do with a year of experience next year.

#1279 bigarthurisgod

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 20:57

Watch this:

http://in.news.yahoo...e-30653817.html

Under the present WSBK rules, he'd probably get away with that! :lol:

Still can't see how someone who causes a race to be stopped (as in race 1 on Sunday) can be allowed in the re-run, silly rule that.

Great entertainement from Assen I thought, especially PJ Jacobsen's stunning win in the supersport race. :clap:
What price Alex Lowes to Samsung Honda next year, unless he's signed elsewhere and I've missed it. There should be top seats up for grabs in 2013 and I guess Lowes would be at the front of the queue.

As for Victor Cox's exploding wheel.........lucky guy.

Edited by bigarthurisgod, 24 September 2012 - 21:04.


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#1280 Rob

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 10:19

Sandro Cortese to Intact GP Kalex in Moto2 next year.

#1281 Nova

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 20:51

The Honda V4 rumor seems like it has been around since they stopped making the RC51. Maybe it's true this time but I wouldn't hold my breath.


http://www.motorcycl...n-september-26/

#1282 Chubby_Deuce

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 20:56

Looks more like Honda's version of a Desmo RR that they'll make enough of for homologation than a CBR replacement/rival. I hope they're making it affordable, otherwise they're doing exactly what everyone accused Aprilia and Beemer of.

That link reminds me that I haven't watched On Any Sunday in a while. I'll do that now.

Edited by Chubby_Deuce, 25 September 2012 - 20:57.


#1283 Risil

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 21:33

Great entertainement from Assen I thought, especially PJ Jacobsen's stunning win in the supersport race. :clap:


+1

He's won two different classes on consecutive weekends now. I'd like to see him on the second Tyco Superbike next season. I'd like to know how highly the Americans on here rate PJ. He's certainly opened a few eyes/mouths among British (and now presumably Dutch) spectators.

Count me undecided about Jonny Rea. I don't think comparing normal race conditions to last year's wacky Valencia race is fair, and neither is comparing his race to the debuts of full season riders like Crutchlow. But if we keep eliminating comparisons as unfair we end up not having any comparisons at all. Having the two full prototypes he had a good shot at beating retire on the first lap didn't help at all, of course. Spies ended his first MotoGP race for Yamaha (his guest appearance in 2009 having won the WSBK title) 38s behind the winner, which is comparable to Rea's effort. Spies recorded Rea-like gaps to the winner in his two dry-weather Suzuki outings in 2008, as well.

Realistically though, Rea's probably not going to get many more chances to get on Honda's MotoGP programme. Maybe a WSBK title in 2013 would change HRC's minds, but Rea's quotes suggest he's committing to the WSBK project long-term, and that Honda have some plans of their own for the series. Better to reign in Superbikes than serve in GP, as Carl Fogarty/Satan once said.

Edited by Risil, 25 September 2012 - 21:34.


#1284 Chubby_Deuce

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 21:53

PJ didn't really road race for very long over here so I don't know much about him. Big time dirt track/TT racer though. He did go well on the 848 that he rode last year but for every good result he tossed it hard twice. It seems like there might have been something weird going on his him or his management (probably mom/dad) when the WSS ride fell through so hopefully that doesn't keep him out of what seems to be a well deserved ride in WSBK/WSS or BSB. Anything over there has to be better than coming back and racing a Harley.

I don't necessarily think that comparing gaps at the finish are the best way to judge riders, I only brought it up to point out that I didn't understand the verbal fellatio that he was receiving from some commentators. To your point about Spies, it may be a fair and somewhat accurate comparison but it doesn't point to greatness now that Spies has stalled out in his progress. I think if you look at the top guys now the common thread is that they were ridiculously good right from the start. They all took about a year to settle in and find consistency but there was no mistaking their speed. That's what worries me about Bradl. Yes he's been the best of the rest but I think we should have seen some more speed by now if he's ever going to have it.

Also, I read

Carl Fogarty/Satan


as "Carl Fogarty Sagan" and pictured awesomeness.

Edited by Chubby_Deuce, 25 September 2012 - 21:55.


#1285 Risil

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 22:04

Yeah, that's a fair observation. Mind you, that could be an indicator of how the Japanese factories pick and then support their lead riders these days. If things could change so drastically after 2006, when Nicky Hayden and Troy Bayliss could win races and championships after years of development/waiting for the right break, they may change again equally drastically. (I'm also worried that all levels of the bike racing commentariat (me certainly included) are making a bit of a totem out of the year 2006, and how the Golden Age and all hope for mankind ended with the 990s. But that's a side issue.)

Currently I gravitate more towards the "if you demonstrate clear improvement every year, you're still on track for the top" school of rider development. With a dose of "age 27+, riders won't pick up new tricks".

#1286 Tonka

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 23:24

I see Danny Webb is leaving Mahindra and moving to World Wide Communication next year. That has to be his last chance at this level, he'll be 22 early next year. His parents must be loaded to keep pouring money into his riding.



#1287 Risil

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 23:31

They might be, or it could be that he/his parents are very good at soliciting potential sponsors and keeping them on board, and paying the riding bills that way. If you take a walk around Oxford's Covered Market you'll see plenty of promotional material signed by Bradley Smith displayed in shop windows: this is how you build relationships with businesses and get them to support a local sportsman.

#1288 Nova

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 04:54

Looks more like Honda's version of a Desmo RR that they'll make enough of for homologation than a CBR replacement/rival. I hope they're making it affordable, otherwise they're doing exactly what everyone accused Aprilia and Beemer of.

That link reminds me that I haven't watched On Any Sunday in a while. I'll do that now.


Well Aprilia and Beemer is the new standard approved by the governing body.

#1289 Chubby_Deuce

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 05:01

Those were bikes that were meant for the mass market though and the years since have shown that. The Honda looks like an uncompromised race bike that will be street legal but only just. I guess we'll see.

#1290 bigarthurisgod

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 05:54

I see Danny Webb is leaving Mahindra and moving to World Wide Communication next year. That has to be his last chance at this level, he'll be 22 early next year. His parents must be loaded to keep pouring money into his riding.


Easily answered, they can afford it because they haven't sent him to university!! :smoking:


#1291 GSiebert

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 08:32

Provisionnal WSBK calendar :

24 February – Phillip Island
10 March – Buddh
24 March – Aragon
7 April – Assen
12 May – Imola
26 May – Donington
9 June – Misano
16 June – Portimao
30 June - Brno
14 July – Moscow
4 August – Silverstone
1 September – Nurburgring
29 September – Laguna Seca
6 October – Magny Cours
20 October – Jerez

So they'd keep Aragon and Portimao (surprising considering its lack of funding).
No Monza :eek:
I think the races are badly spread out in July, August and September, the races are 3 to 4 weeks appart ):


#1292 Rob

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 09:35

I see Danny Webb is leaving Mahindra and moving to World Wide Communication next year. That has to be his last chance at this level, he'll be 22 early next year. His parents must be loaded to keep pouring money into his riding.

He ought to go better on that bike. He's better than his results this year suggest. The Mahindra is a pig of a bike. I think in the next couple of years, he may well think about moving to British Supersport or something similar. He'd likely get better results there for less money.

#1293 kosmic33

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 09:36

He ought to go better on that bike. He's better than his results this year suggest. The Mahindra is a pig of a bike. I think in the next couple of years, he may well think about moving to British Supersport or something similar. He'd likely get better results there for less money.

I'd doubt he's paying money to ride the Mahindra at the minute?


#1294 milestone 11

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 10:35

Great entertainement from Assen I thought, especially PJ Jacobsen's stunning win in the supersport race. :clap:

I thought he was seriously impressive at Oulton in July as well.

As for Victor Cox's exploding wheel.........lucky guy.

It reminded me horribly of Robert at TT '94


#1295 Rob

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 10:36

I'd doubt he's paying money to ride the Mahindra at the minute?

I hope not. :eek:

#1296 Chubby_Deuce

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 14:25

I'd doubt he's paying money to ride the Mahindra at the minute?


I wouldn't have thought so..

#1297 kosmic33

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 15:20

I hope not. :eek:

So why is there all this talk of his parents being loaded and spending money on his racing?
Moto 3 isnt Formula 3!!!!

#1298 Risil

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 20:18

Digest away, bike racers: RdP: CRTs ride like 250s

De Puniet is on the best CRT bike of 2012, the Aspar Aprilia (ART). So while Edwards has spent most of 2012 wondering if the electronics package on his Suter-BMW would even work, RDP can give perhaps the most detailed comparison of prototype and CRT machinery.

RDP admits a CRT carries more cornering speed than current-spec 2012 prototypes.

"The riding style is more like 250 than real MotoGP, de Puniet told Euro media. "When I follow some guys, I can enter faster into the corner, and the corner speed is better. That's why some tracks, where it is more flowing, are better for us. A track where you have to stop the bike, then pick it up and accelerate, not good."



#1299 bigarthurisgod

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 22:08

RdP: CRTs ride like 250s


....and about as quick as Moto2 machines! ;)

But not quite as exciting (or as interesting for that matter!).

Edited by bigarthurisgod, 26 September 2012 - 22:09.


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#1300 kosmic33

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 22:22

....and about as quick as Moto2 machines! ;)

Wrong.
At Misano the fastest CRT race lap was around 2 seconds faster than the fastest Moto 2
At Bruno the CRT was faster by over 4 seconds
At indy the gap was 2.5 seconds

And dont forget that the Moto 2's are lapping faster than the 500's ever managed......