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2012 - MotoGP, WSB, Moto2, WSP, AMA, BSB Part II


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#1601 Disgrace

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 21:57

That looks like a deliberately nice and ambiguous way of saying rider error if it says "data does not show anything different."

Edited by Disgrace, 14 October 2012 - 21:58.


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#1602 chunder27

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 22:00

Pathetic histrioncs by Cortese after the race, stropping at Kent for passing him, does he not remember taking Danny out at Assen and Kent being a real pro and not saying much! It was Tonucci that messed up!! not your team mate, hate this sot of stuff from him and he has plenty of previous for it.

HAte to see fastest bike win, but Marques my word he was 9th af5ter a lap! How pathetically fast is that bike, same as Cortese, mirror signal pass in the KTM lane, Vinales has had no chance really on that Honda. Over riding has meant crashes.

As for CRT, well I wouldnt mind if the peddlers were decent, but Silva, Pasini, Petrucci, I mean Petrucci has never really ridden a superbike and looked good! Ellison is a journry man, as is Pasini who has been useless for years. Aspar only dominate coz they have the best engines, ones no on else has, and even these are a step behind the ones WSB used, and believe it or not they used 39 engines this year! Now I know they bought the series, "brought to you by Eni and Aprilia" but for Gods sake.

#1603 Chubby_Deuce

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 22:40

That looks like a deliberately nice and ambiguous way of saying rider error if it says "data does not show anything different."


Probably. Easy way of blaming the machinery without Yamaha being the ones responsible.

It was Tonucci that messed up!!


Really it was Cortese's fault, being the guy making the pass. Tonucci did stand the bike up a bit earlier than what Sandro probably expected but I wouldn't put it all on him.

Aspar only dominate coz they have the best engines


I don't agree, it's a combination of factors. Aspar is the only CRT team that really has the resources to get the most out of an engine/chassis/electronics. They've also got a guy riding for them (quite awfully this weekend, it has to be said) that went pretty damn fast on a satellite Honda just a couple of years ago. The Spanish kid has been a pleasant surprise too.

#1604 Disgrace

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 22:43

Pathetic histrioncs by Cortese after the race, stropping at Kent for passing him, does he not remember taking Danny out at Assen and Kent being a real pro and not saying much! It was Tonucci that messed up!! not your team mate, hate this sot of stuff from him and he has plenty of previous for it.


He apologised on Twitter afterwards, in a rare well-judged use of Twitter.

#1605 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 09:14

Guintoli WSBK deal terminated by Suzuki

#1606 saunarobot

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 09:36

I think it was Cortese's own fault really, but I understand his frustration at the moment.

#1607 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 10:06

What Aprilia seat is Sylvain negotiating for, I thought all were signed up already, except Biaggi which was a formality?

#1608 Tonka

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 12:00

I don't think Suzuki are in a position to complain. They've hardly put any effort into any kind of racing for several years.



#1609 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 12:03

Their involvement is irrelevant, they offered him a ride, he accepted and signed a contract and then went behind their backs and started negotiating another ride. The man has no integrity.

#1610 Nova

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 13:52

Stoner in another week when he is more recovered and a track that will better suit the Honda. Still without Jorge striking trouble I would doubt he can lose it from here. Years ago Honda would have pumped in a few quick local riders at Japan to spice things up - that could change a championship outcome but Honda's investment in costly MGP is cash strapped. Interesting that Yamaha had a local rider though.


I don't know if it was easier to jump on a bike, or if the standard on Japanese riders were higher back then, but you don't see wild cards doing well anymore. It's even rare to see riders doing amazingly well the first year they enter motoGP.

#1611 kosmic33

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 14:12

Their involvement is irrelevant, they offered him a ride, he accepted and signed a contract and then went behind their backs and started negotiating another ride. The man has no integrity.

To be fair to sylvan, it's not like he's had a good experience with other teams integrity lately. I'm not saying what he did was ok, but I can see how he could end up with a put myself 1st mentality

#1612 Hippo

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 15:46

That looks like a deliberately nice and ambiguous way of saying rider error if it says "data does not show anything different."

Didn't they blame another crash of Ben this weekend on some break issue? If so, then the whole sentence including the "as in other sessions" implies it was the same problem again I'd say.

Indeed this whole season is completely f*cked up. Stoner out of the picture in what was supposed to be his fight for leaving the sport as champion. Spies having more issues every other week. Ducati/Rossi still sucking in the midfield. And not even the fight between the 2 Spaniards is really thrilling. 2012 really is not a memorable year for MotoGP.

#1613 DS27

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 20:13

This is the dullest Moto GP season I have ever watched. Every race now, we know who will be 1-2; just the order may change. Roll on next year. Also, I notice Stoner in the pits at Bathurst, so as a fan of him and V8 supercars, at least I can look forward to that to soften the blow of him leaving the scene.

Thank god for Marquez's first lap heroics (i'm not rooting for him, but it will be fascinating to see how he gets on next year) and the amazing British Supersport race. What a fantastic atmosphere there was at Brands yesterday. Shakey is so popular!

Well done to Kent as well. Cortese made a right idiot of himself - made Ianone look level headed.

Edited by DS27, 15 October 2012 - 20:17.


#1614 rhukkas

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 22:00

This is the dullest Moto GP season I have ever watched.


MotoGP has lived off Rossi, that's just the reality. We were all hoodwinked into thinking it was MotoGP that was exciting, when it was in fact Rossi.

Without him, MotoGP is as dull as dishwater. And no amount of tweaking will change that.

#1615 DS27

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 22:04

Time will tell. I think just having more than two riders at the front will be a big help and Rossi's 'return' along with Marquez arrival should provide that.

#1616 hotstickyslick

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 22:45

MotoGP has lived off Rossi, that's just the reality. We were all hoodwinked into thinking it was MotoGP that was exciting, when it was in fact Rossi.

Without him, MotoGP is as dull as dishwater. And no amount of tweaking will change that.

Rubbish. The golden era was before Rossi arrived on the scene (late 80s and early 90s)

and it's also a good thing to point out that Rossi is still in fact racing in MotoGP :well:

#1617 malibu

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 23:27

Rubbish. The golden era was before Rossi arrived on the scene (late 80s and early 90s)

and it's also a good thing to point out that Rossi is still in fact racing in MotoGP :well:


agree
moto gp is probably one of the last exciting motorracing sports right now (plus 24h of le mans and some touring car series)
i grew up with f1 and senna, but i still remember Mike Doohan years (along with scwhanz, rainey...)

moto gp kept what F1 lost. I mean, the way they rid their bike has a bigger influence in overall performance than in F1. It is important to clearly know your limit. You can't afford a mistake in moto gp. In F1, on modern circuits, you just end up outside the line. In moto gp, it can have serious consequences.

In moto gp, riders are still the gladiators people want to see.

we still have great riders and rossi is still racing. Pedrosa has an amazing style and the way he pushes his bike to the limit is just outstanding.

let's just hope the same mistakes won't be done like it was with F1 (i heard dorna prepares some reg restrictors...)

Edited by malibu, 15 October 2012 - 23:28.


#1618 ViMaMo

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 01:08

Yes its dull. Not many fights at the front.

#1619 Youichi

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 08:45

Aspar only dominate coz they have the best engines, ones no on else has, and even these are a step behind the ones WSB used, and believe it or not they used 39 engines this year! Now I know they bought the series, "brought to you by Eni and Aprilia" but for Gods sake.


I think you're getting your sources confused, it's the WSBK teams which have used 39 engines, CRT are limited to 6 or 8 for the season.

Aspar are 'winning' in CRT because they have the best two riders.

With regard to the 'MotoGP is boring since Rossi got off a top bike" argument, I think the difference is that if Rossi knew he could win, he'd ride around all race, and only go quickly for the last two laps. Imagine if when Dani when passed Jorge and gapped him, he'd backed off and let Jorge back past, and then only passed him on the last two laps, everyone would be exclaiming over how good the race was, but in fact it would only have been Dani making it look good, this is what Rossi did for so many years.

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#1620 Chubby_Deuce

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 08:51

I think he was referring to the WSB team regarding engine usage.

#1621 Rob

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 09:57

I notice that no one seems to have asked Guintoli for his thoughts on the Suzuki affair. After reading the Suzuki statement, I've got a gut feeling that there's more to this than we've been told.

#1622 Atreiu

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 10:09

(...)With regard to the 'MotoGP is boring since Rossi got off a top bike" argument, I think the difference is that if Rossi knew he could win, he'd ride around all race, and only go quickly for the last two laps. Imagine if when Dani when passed Jorge and gapped him, he'd backed off and let Jorge back past, and then only passed him on the last two laps, everyone would be exclaiming over how good the race was, but in fact it would only have been Dani making it look good, this is what Rossi did for so many years.


That's right. Rossi could often play with the pack and follow them gauging their strengths.
Fuel consumption wasn't so critical back then, which came in favourably with these tactics by Rossi. He would not somehow get lean on fuel and not be able to push for those few laps.
But that gave birth to aliens, the type who cleared away and would do their best to never allow anyone to come close enough to attempt the playing games.

It bugs me that Dorna pushes so hard for the spec ECU and does nearly nothing about fuel. Give the factory bikes an extra litre, give CRT an extra two. At least the fuel consumption bucks of the ECUs will suddenly become less important and expensive.

#1623 rhukkas

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 11:22

agree
moto gp is probably one of the last exciting motorracing sports right now


I've watched a lot of racing this year, and if MotoGP can be described in one word it wouldn't be exciting'. It's be dull, poor, lacklustre, or dreadful.


#1624 montoyasminion

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 14:20

Then don't watch.

That way the rest of us don't have to see the constant complaining.

#1625 motorhead

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 14:47

MotoGP has lived off Rossi, that's just the reality. We were all hoodwinked into thinking it was MotoGP that was exciting, when it was in fact Rossi.

Without him, MotoGP is as dull as dishwater. And no amount of tweaking will change that.


Last time MotoGp was exciting...well it was before Rossi, it has been a downfall since then...if you don´t like those egoistic shows after the race exciting that is...

#1626 rhukkas

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 15:00

Then don't watch.

That way the rest of us don't have to see the constant complaining.


I have, as are many others. But to say stop watching if you moan is stupid, because there are plenty of riders saying the same thing... should they stop racing?

I want MotoGP to be great again, not the shitshow it is now. How are the organisers going to learn this and change things if everyone stays shut.

#1627 Atreiu

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 15:12

Have you guys read this? I liked the last question. Marquez's goals are set already.

http://www.gpone.com...a-dal-2014.html

Q: What do you expect from Marc Marquez next year.
N: At the moment, Dani, Casey and Jorge are living on the different planet. Next year there will be a space on the podium because Casey will retire. We expect Marquez to fill this space. I don’t expect him to win the first race of 2013 but I expect him to be on the podium in Qatar.



#1628 Disgrace

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 15:20

As they should be. It only took him three races to adapt from dominating 125cc to dominating Moto2. I think there's every chance Marquez could be faster than Pedrosa on a regular basis after a couple of races.

#1629 Atreiu

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 15:32

I wouldn't expect that, adpating to Bridgestones has never been easy after 2009.

#1630 choyothe

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 15:36

So they don't expect Rossi to be somewhere close at the very least? I seriously doubt Marquez will be beating any of those 3 consistently next year but we'll see.

For me beating the others and finishing 4th in the championship is what he should aim at.

Edited by choyothe, 16 October 2012 - 15:38.


#1631 Rob

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 15:40

I wouldn't be surprised if he won a race next year. It might be later on in the season but he's good enough.

#1632 goldenboy

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 15:50

I wouldn't be surprised if he won a race, but feel it's almost a given he will break a few riders collarbones first! Carnage..

#1633 malibu

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 16:49

There iS no chance marquez can beat pedrosa. Last year, pedrosa was recovering from an injury and on the beginning of this year he lacked confidence. He gradually gained speed. He is now very difficult to beat even without stoner injury

#1634 choyothe

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 16:54

There iS no chance marquez can beat pedrosa. Last year, pedrosa was recovering from an injury and on the beginning of this year he lacked confidence. He gradually gained speed. He is now very difficult to beat even without stoner injury


Agreed, shown by Dani leading Stoner by 9 points before his crash.

I do think Marquez can win a race next year, but I think he'll need some fortunate circumstances to occur for that. Meaning I don't think there will be a race where he will outpace all 3 of Dani, Jorge and Vale but perhaps something can happen for him to take one.

#1635 paulesko

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 17:07

Both Jorge and Dani won their first race on the 3th or 4th race of the season, so I don´t see why Marquez couldn´t meet that. What´s more, both Dani and Jorge were on the podium around 8 times on their first season, and on their second season both of them were second in the championship... So I guess that is what we can expect

#1636 GSiebert

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 18:37

I like the winter-testing-black ZX10R :)

Posted Image

Edited by GSiebert, 16 October 2012 - 18:43.


#1637 chunder27

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 21:10

It took Dani a fair while to get used to riding the Honda everywhere quick. He could win in his firsy year with a perfect start and good setup, as he showed. I would expect Marquez to be the same, there is not the expanse of talent around that ther was when Dani came into GP top class either.

He is going to have to get used to much harder to ride tyres, and a bike that has loads of aids, something he doesnt yet understand, though the Honda seems the easiest to get on with, if not ride.

He is also going to ahve to get used to not having a speed advantage that he has enjoyed the past 3 years, both on 125 and two years ona Moto2, he is small, and the Suter is utterly built around him, and maybe Luthi to a degree who has proved himself staggeringly inconsistent.

Marquez will get there, he is going to have to get stronger, and if he tries to beat up Jorge, Dani and Rossi he will get found out, they will moan like they did about Simoncelli and its whether Marquez and his little group of psycofants can cope with this and the ensuing penalties and yellow cards that will follow, because it wil happen, accidents and clashes have followed this man since KTM days I am afraid. He might be quick but he is dirty, rash and ruthless, I hope he can learn, but part of me hopes he doest and gets totally found out. Dani too it well and has rarely moaned, I hope Marc has the grace to learn.

#1638 0thecougar

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 23:54

Marquez will win a race next year.
I'm pretty sure it won't take him 14 years to start challenging for the title like Pedrosa either.


#1639 Tonka

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 06:03

It's time to put a stop to this nonsense that Marques has the fastest Moto2 bike. Average top speeds for all this years races are available on the MotoGP site and Marques isn't on top of the list at every race. In fact he has won a race with the 22nd fastest bike.



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#1640 Cesc

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 07:01

About Marquez bike speed difference, it was noticeable in some races at the start when comparing to Iannone particularly, but nothing more. I do think that the best package is the Pons team, with Espargaró and Rabat. But Marquez is a class on his own.

About Pedrosa. I think he was underestimated for a big part of last year, due to extraordinary performances from Stoner and Lorenzo. But the fact is that he has had severe injuries during almost every year in MotoGP and that´s not easy to cope with. Look at how slow was Stoner at Motegi compared to Dani. Pedrosa has had to ride in those conditions many times. He deserves more credit and his current season is astonishing...but Lorenzo´s one is slightly better. The numbers of both are almost an statistical "aberration".

Edited by Cesc, 17 October 2012 - 07:01.


#1641 paulesko

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 08:14

It's time to put a stop to this nonsense that Marques has the fastest Moto2 bike. Average top speeds for all this years races are available on the MotoGP site and Marques isn't on top of the list at every race. In fact he has won a race with the 22nd fastest bike.


+1 on this.

I don´t get it, Marquez usually doesn´t have the top speed al most never, and what´s more, you can look at everyrace standings and see that suter is almost never at the top of the list... in fact it´s full of kalex, and Marquez is the only one who can take that bike to win always.

When he was riding 125cc he always beat his teammates and the year he won with Derbi, he won witg Pol Espargaro with the same bike, Nicolas Terol with Aprillia (champion following year) and Sandro Cortese got 7th with half the points also with a Derbi.. and Sandro arrived at 125 a year before Marc. So all the comments that try to show that Marquez wins because of the bike are bs in my opinion.


#1642 Rob

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 08:18

I'd have thought that any advantage would be more to do with acceleration than top speed.

#1643 ViMaMo

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 08:27

Maybe the only rider who can challenge Marques is Pol Espargaro, easy to say that but he has been performing well in 2012.

#1644 Cesc

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 08:34

With all respect to a legend like Rossi, Marquez reminds me quite a lot to him.

He may not be the fastest in quali, but it is almost 100% sure that in the race he´ll be there fighting for the win.

In the last lap, he´s almost unbeattable, remember cases like Brno or Mugello. The guy really puts an extra on those laps.

So I'm pretty sure he will win races in MotoGp next year unless Honda is crap.

#1645 ViMaMo

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 08:47

Shame to be losing Stoner. Don't go Stoner ! Stoner,Rossi,Lorenzo,Pedrosa,Marques when was the last we saw a grid lineup of so many talented riders with all of these on competitive machinery.

#1646 Risil

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 16:36

I like the winter-testing-black ZX10R :)

Posted Image


Hmm, headlight stickers look a bit less tacky on the testing livery than they did in the regular season.

Edited by Risil, 17 October 2012 - 16:36.


#1647 DrProzac

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 16:38

I'd have thought that any advantage would be more to do with acceleration than top speed.

Exactly. Similarly to RBR in Monza last year.
But I think that the theory that Marquez has an unfair advantage is BS.

#1648 Chubby_Deuce

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 17:33

Nothing unfair but they're very well supported. Any assertions in the opposite direction, that he's handicapped compared the Kalex riders, is equally untrue. That's why the Suter exodus happened in the first place, nobody else was getting support while Kalex have taken a more balanced approach.

Add in the Repsol money for personnel and you end up with a bike and team that do just fine.

#1649 GSiebert

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 18:10

Marquez' first lap at Motegi : http://www.dailymoti...-1_auto?start=0

#1650 Seanspeed

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 18:25

With all respect to a legend like Rossi, Marquez reminds me quite a lot to him.

He may not be the fastest in quali, but it is almost 100% sure that in the race he´ll be there fighting for the win.

In the last lap, he´s almost unbeattable, remember cases like Brno or Mugello. The guy really puts an extra on those laps.

So I'm pretty sure he will win races in MotoGp next year unless Honda is crap.

Its not that he does that much extra on the last lap, its just that he has such a pace advantage, he can relax more than others for most of the race, saving his tires for the end.