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2012 - MotoGP, WSB, Moto2, WSP, AMA, BSB Part II


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#1651 Risil

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 19:03

Nothing unfair but they're very well supported. Any assertions in the opposite direction, that he's handicapped compared the Kalex riders, is equally untrue. That's why the Suter exodus happened in the first place, nobody else was getting support while Kalex have taken a more balanced approach.

Add in the Repsol money for personnel and you end up with a bike and team that do just fine.


His size and weight is an advantage too, given the relative low-tune of the CBR600 powerplants. But whatever, any rider who dominates the intermediate class as much as Marquez has will be a factor the next size up. Problem is, in 2013 he'll be going up against the Mark Marquezes of 1999, 2005 and 2007. He could still do a Melandri or a Biaggi. ;)

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#1652 bigarthurisgod

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 20:35

Anyone see the final BSB round at Brands? Another hugely entertaining weekend, especially the Supersport races.
Talk about drama.Billy McConnell was like a man possessed in both races. He's like a kid on a Ribena only diet!!

#1653 Tonka

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 20:39

More fiddling - this time with Superbikes

http://www.bikesport...amp;newsid=8268

World Superbike riders will now be able to come in to a change wheels during the course of a race if it rains as the series will revert back to flag-to-flag events.

Because there is a one-bike rule in place, the new regulation will not work in the same way as it does in MotoGP but those wishing to change tyres for differing conditions can swap wheels - but refuelling is strictly forbidden. The minimum weights have also seen the differential between the twins and fours. There is now a minimum weight of 165kg for both 1200cc twin cylinders and 1000cc four cylinders.

The four-cylinder weight is unchanged, but the 1200cc twins will be able to shed the six kilos that had been added for this season.

"A Superbike race will not be interrupted for climatic reasons except for extraordinary events and riders who wish to change tyres or make adjustments must enter the pits (at any moment) and do so during the actual race," said an FIM statement.

Other rules introduced for Superbikes include a new three-bike grid formation, use of a red rear safety light in wet conditions, front-brake lever protection to stop Tommy Hill-style mistakes and sport 17in wheels, which we already knew.

Superport teams are also now bound by the brake lever and rear light rules but will also now be constrained to eight engines per season for a permanent rider. If that rider is substituted, then it makes no odds to the allocation.




#1654 Risil

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 20:59

Anyone see the final BSB round at Brands? Another hugely entertaining weekend, especially the Supersport races.
Talk about drama.


Indeed. Although the cameras lingered a little too long on Jack Kennedy giving one hell of a primal scream after his bike threw a valve and cost him the championship. Uncomfortable viewing. :| Good BSB racing at Brands, as we've come to expect, although I don't like Dr Palmer's philosophy of putting bums on seats by putting riders in artificial high pressure situations in the hope they'll make mistakes and provide Thrilling Viewing. I don't care which riders are more prone to "choking", I want to see them relax and put their all into racing each other out on track.

Billy McConnell was like a man possessed in both races. He's like a kid on a Ribena only diet!!


:up: :lol:

#1655 bigarthurisgod

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 21:39

Indeed. Although the cameras lingered a little too long on Jack Kennedy giving one hell of a primal scream after his bike threw a valve and cost him the championship. Uncomfortable viewing. :| Good BSB racing at Brands, as we've come to expect, although I don't like Dr Palmer's philosophy of putting bums on seats by putting riders in artificial high pressure situations in the hope they'll make mistakes and provide Thrilling Viewing. I don't care which riders are more prone to "choking", I want to see them relax and put their all into racing each other out on track.

The producer was well thrown by the Kennedy blow up, he followed the wrong bikes for almost 2 laps!!

I agree with what you say about the shoot out, but I think you could say the pressure didn't get to Josh Brookes, judging by his pre race 3 interview!!

#1656 Risil

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 22:14

I agree with what you say about the shoot out, but I think you could say the pressure didn't get to Josh Brookes, judging by his pre race 3 interview!!


Nah, he wasn't fooling anyone. You could hear it in his voice and his awkward laughs. Seems JB has an interesting personality. But what a racer! And standing up on the podium at Brands in mid-October in just his pants was a heroic feat. Paul Bird was, er, enthusiastic in helping him remove his leathers. :stoned:

Brookes's team manager Philip Neill had something interesting to say before Sunday's first race. Brookes had a brake balance issue during Race 1, and in his panic (owing to nerves, said Neill), he moved the adjuster the wrong way and made the problem worse. By the time he'd noticed his error and sorted out his bike's handling, the leaders had gone and his championship was basically over. Really felt for him.

Meanwhile, it's Swan Yamaha's turn to be facing an uncertain future during the off-season. IIRC it was Crescent Suzuki not knowing whether they'd have a team going into 2011 that caused Tommy Hill to move to the Swan team, before Jack Valentine pulled off the coup of the century and signed John Hopkins.

I reckon BSB needs a couple more really top-line riders to reach critical mass and get everyone to really take notice, but Yamaha's factory squad pulling out, and Tommy Hill being rumoured to be WSBK- or CRT-bound, would be serious setbacks. Promote Keith Farmer and PJ Jacobson to their respective BSB squads, and sign someone from the world championships to a big team with a real testing budget. Scassa and Smrz are very talented riders, and are being wasted where they are, IMHO. Easier said than done eh.

In all honesty, if he's still in British Superbikes, Alex Lowes alone will make the 2013 season worth following closely.

Edited by Risil, 17 October 2012 - 22:32.


#1657 Chubby_Deuce

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 23:30

The wording on the flag to flag thing is confusing. Are they making pit stops for wets or are they red flagging and restarting on wet tires?

#1658 kosmic33

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 23:57

The wording on the flag to flag thing is confusing. Are they making pit stops for wets or are they red flagging and restarting on wet tires?

A Superbike race will not be interrupted for climatic reasons except for extraordinary events and riders who wish to change tyres or make adjustments must enter the pits (at any moment) and do so during the actual race.
Seems pretty clear to me!
(pit stops)

#1659 Chubby_Deuce

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 01:06

Yep, misread it the first time.

Seems like bringing back a second bike is the easier way to go. Teams have the bikes anyway and how awesome will it be when one of the front runners loses a race or championship because they had a slow front wheel change at a single race? Leave that to endurance racing.

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#1660 ehagar

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 01:26

Bringing back the second bike only makes sense. They already effectively bring enough spares to completely rebuild a bike as it is anyway.



#1661 bigarthurisgod

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 05:52

In all honesty, if he's still in British Superbikes, Alex Lowes alone will make the 2013 season worth following closely.

Dead right :up:
Easily the most improved rider of 2012.
The winter merry-go-round should be interesting with some decent seats coming up for grabs (hopefully). Sealey, Easton (maybe), Haga (perhaps), Kirkham (nailed on), must all be in danger (contracts permitting).
A lot of brackets there (sorry).

#1662 Tarzaan

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 07:28

Ezpelata is an idiot. This new rules with the rear safety light for wet races, fake front headlight stickers & the three riders per row starting grid are ridiculous.

#1663 Rob

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 08:07

Ezpelata is an idiot. This new rules with the rear safety light for wet races, fake front headlight stickers & the three riders per row starting grid are ridiculous.

These changes were agreed before Dorna took over.

#1664 GSiebert

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 08:25

I don't see the problem with the rear light for wet races ?
But I also don't see the point of going to 3 bikes per row. Safety ?

#1665 TimRTC

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 08:38

I can see why they want pit stops instead of red flags - I was at Silverstone for the extremely wet/dry WSBK round this year and every race on the card got red flagged at some point for a switch to wets, aside from causing breaks of up to 20 minutes in the middle of a race, on more than one occasion, by the time the bikes were ready to go, the rain had stopped. Using pit stops instead will be a lot more interesting, with teams having to gamble on a switch to wets or waiting out rather than the decision being made for them.

Not that it seems overly important in WSBK as the riders can fling themselves off at every corner regardless of the weather.

#1666 bigarthurisgod

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 22:33

Josh Brookes on Brands

#1667 Disgrace

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 22:36

Brookes was great this year, hopefully he will repeat Bryne's feat this year and undo the injustice of scoring the most points and not winning the title. Hopefully the showdown format will be done away with soon.

Edited by Disgrace, 18 October 2012 - 22:36.


#1668 bigarthurisgod

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 22:38

Brookes was great this year, hopefully he will repeat Bryne's feat this year and undo the injustice of scoring the most points and not winning the title. Hopefully the showdown format will be done away with soon.

Well Shakey undid the injustice of losing out to Tommy Hill last year, so let's hope so.

#1669 Risil

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 23:58

At least for this season it's worth pointing out that if the Showdown hadn't been in place, Byrne would surely have ridden more rounds with that collarbone injury. Same with Hopkins electing to skip Cadwell Park last year.

I don't really mind riders being allowed to drop scores at rounds they've missed due to injury, and one of the side-effects of the Showdown is that riders can hurt themselves badly enough to miss races, but still be in contention in the points table at the end. That's a good thing for the championship and doesn't spoil its integrity as a contest. All the rest though...

Edited by Risil, 19 October 2012 - 00:01.


#1670 toofast

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 01:51

Vinales left his team?

#1671 Disgrace

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 02:00

It would appear so. He must have an offer to ride in Moto2 next year.

saw Maverick Viñales in the hotel this morning and thought he was leaving it a bit late to get to the track... he's quit the team!


Edited by Disgrace, 19 October 2012 - 02:01.


#1672 Chubby_Deuce

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 03:13

That's a shitty thing to do. No doubt there's a story but...

#1673 Cesc

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 05:39

I really like the guy (Viñales), but I agree, he should finish the season. It is not only about him but a whole team. They had little chances to win, but finish second is quite ok though. And once the season is finished, then a business can be done.

#1674 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 05:40

Story goes he had offers from "first rate teams like Red Bull KTM", he called Blusens a 2nd rate team and they never told him of the offers.

@ianwheeler: Having a personal manager who is also your team manager is not always such a good thing. A conflict of interests can easily arise...

http://www.motogp.co...es Viales split
http://www.motogp.co...ns Avintia team

#1675 Chubby_Deuce

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 05:40

Team boss says that Maverick called last night and told him that he didn't want to ride the bike because it's too slow. He must be an amazing talent to have won those races on such a turd.

Sounds like he's trying to get himself fired to race for someone else next year. I hope Ajo takes note of how easy it was for him to betray the last guy that had a contract with him.

#1676 Chubby_Deuce

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 05:42

@ianwheeler: Having a personal manager who is also your team manager is not always such a good thing. A conflict of interests can easily arise...


Oh dear, didn't realize this part.

#1677 toofast

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 05:45

I really like the guy (Viñales), but I agree, he should finish the season. It is not only about him but a whole team. They had little chances to win, but finish second is quite ok though. And once the season is finished, then a business can be done.


If I'm not mistaken he said he wanted to finish the season but the team wouldn't let him leave anyway.

#1678 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 05:46

Oh dear, didn't realize this part.

@birtymotogp: Big rumour on Vinales saga is that he had no idea about other offers from rival teams, including Red Bull KTM

#1679 Chubby_Deuce

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 05:55

If I'm not mistaken he said he wanted to finish the season but the team wouldn't let him leave anyway.


He signed on the dotted line. Finish the season and settle it over the winter.

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#1680 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 06:36

@birtymotogp: All 6 of Valentino Rossi's crew moving back to Yamaha will be released by Ducati to work with him at Valencia test

#1681 Tonka

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 08:04

Scott Redding is staying in Moto2 next year. Doesn't look good long term if he can't get a seat in 2014, it'll be the BSB/Superbike treadmill. Pity, he's a far better rider than Bradley Smith, who's managed to get a very good ride, depite spending most of the season running around in the midfield.



#1682 Youichi

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 08:09

@birtymotogp: Big rumour on Vinales saga is that he had no idea about other offers from rival teams, including Red Bull KTM


Aparently he had offers from Ajo Motorosport and Aspar as well, thats the top 3 teams in the championship, and his manager didn't tell him...

#1683 Showty

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 08:59

Aparently he had offers from Ajo Motorosport and Aspar as well, thats the top 3 teams in the championship, and his manager didn't tell him...


-His manager is also running the team
-The bike is no longer one of the best bikes.
-His manager hides the offers he has from the top teams.

Well, the kid has lots of reasons to be mad at them, he is right on wanting out, however it should have being made in a different way.

#1684 GSiebert

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 09:11

I don't get it. His team didn't want to let him leave at the end of the season, but he can quit with 3 races to go ?

#1685 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 09:18

I don't get it. His team didn't want to let him leave at the end of the season, but he can quit with 3 races to go ?

He cant really quit, he has a contract till the end of next year with Blusens, right now he is in breech.

#1686 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 09:26

I am no lawyer but as I understand things the contract with Blusens can easily be declared null and void as his manager and employer did not negotiate in good faith by not disclosing the other offers. The problem is that all the guys who were looking for his services have now found riders to fill the seats and he isn't going to get a decent ride for 2013. Depending on his manager's wealth there could be quite a civil case to be had.

#1687 ViMaMo

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 09:31

Maybe he will come back and ride the rest of the season out, must have been pretty mad at his manager.

#1688 Bartel

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 10:09

Maverick could easily step up to Moto2 next season, he had the talent, and there is no point staying in moto3 if its not with the top ride he deserves.

#1689 Tonka

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 10:26

The 2nd factory KTM seat is still available for 2013.

Can a 17 year old be held to a contract in Spain? Avintia would be stupid to try and keep a rider who doesn't want to be there.



#1690 Rob

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 10:53

Can a 17 year old be held to a contract in Spain? Avintia would be stupid to try and keep a rider who doesn't want to be there.

They won't make him race for them but they could prevent him from racing for anyone else.

#1691 showtime

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 11:15

The 2nd factory KTM seat is still available for 2013.

Can a 17 year old be held to a contract in Spain? Avintia would be stupid to try and keep a rider who doesn't want to be there.


AFAIK you can if you are 16+. I'm not sure if you have to get the ok from the parents until you have 18.

EDIT: I've checked and yes, you can have a contract if you are 16+ as long as you have your parents permission. There are many restrictions for these type of contracts: no extra hours, no night shifts (don't know how it works with night races...). I guess sport contracts may have a special treatment as acting contracts have.

Edited by showtime, 19 October 2012 - 11:24.


#1692 Tonka

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 11:28

MotoGP league cockup

Because of a technical problem during the Grand Prix of Japan that affected the
processing of MotoGP™ League bets, we regret to inform you that the bets were
cancelled.
The technical problem caused some of the bets to cross between different
participants, making it impossible to guarantee the reliability of the results.
In light of this we had to cancel them, leaving in force the existing
classification after the Grand Prix of Aragón.


Opps



#1693 Cesc

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 12:36

They won't make him race for them but they could prevent him from racing for anyone else.


I hope that at practical level they (somebody, IRTA, Dorna, whoever) will try to avoid that.

#1694 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 12:57

Given the basic facts we have, there's no reason for anyone else to get involved.

#1695 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 13:02

Ezpeleta supposedly had a meeting with Vinales' father this morning to try get him to stay but couldn't

#1696 Rob

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 13:43

The Belgian rider Livio Loi will race for Marc VDS in Moto3 next year.

#1697 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 13:47

The Belgian rider Livio Loi will race for Marc VDS in Moto3 next year.

and will miss the first 2 races because he isnt old enough but can take part in the end of season test :drunk:

#1698 kosmic33

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 14:56

and will miss the first 2 races because he isnt old enough but can take part in the end of season test :drunk:

14 year olds doing 140mph......

He must be good when they have him signed up at that age though

#1699 Risil

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 18:10

The Belgian rider Livio Loi will race for Marc VDS in Moto3 next year.


Along with the Czech 16-year-old Karel Hanika, the star of the second half of this Red Bull Rookies season. Belgium hasn't had a successful road racer since the days of Didier de Radigues and Stephane Mertens, so this is a promising development. :) Good to see the Marc VDS team making the step down (up?) into Moto3, as well.

(Btw Loi is 15, but the FIM take a harder line in following their own age restrictions than they used to. Or Livio Loi's management aren't friends with the right people. Take yer pick.)

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#1700 kosmic33

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 19:27

Ah right.
I thought the minimum age was 15.......