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2012 - MotoGP, WSB, Moto2, WSP, AMA, BSB Part II


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#2051 GSiebert

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 19:22

@SamLowes11
Signed for 2013....... Can't wait get to start soon :)

@SamLowes11
More details later :) ....... #unfinished business

So I guess that means WSS ;)

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#2052 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 19:28

I don't see why WSB rules need to be closer to a Superstock rules. This is superbike, not superstock. These are serial/production based prototype bikes and that is why people like this series.

:wave:
Superstock is closer to serial/production based than Superbikes

#2053 GSiebert

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 19:34

You missed the "prototype" word. :p

#2054 Muz Bee

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 21:58

Stoner remains adamant he is retired for good but only citing the state and direction of the sport of MotoGP.
Stoner

Well in 25 years of closing following motorcycle GP racing I think there's plenty of precedent for "the planets lining up" and Casey feeling excited about MotoGP again.

The sport is in an ugly state at the moment and Stoner retiring is far from the only reason I am considering drifting off to other interests. I never appreciated Dorna's running of the sport and the introduction of heavy 4-stroke prototypes in place of the spectacular 500 2-strokes. The demise of 125 and 250 has provided a symmetry but a decline in traditional roadracing technique in my opinion. Structurally though, I think a big shake up is inevitable soon as MotoGP is in a sick state.

If as seems quite likely Jorge wins again in 2013/14 HRC will at the least be on the phone with offers that Casey may find hard to ignore. There are also plenty of precedents for people retiring too early and changing their minds. In my mind Casey retired too early but it's HIS mind that has to change. Sometimes normal life can be too much to cope with.

Talents like Stoner don't come around very often.

Edited by Muz Bee, 01 November 2012 - 22:42.


#2055 goldenboy

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 00:12

since ant wests team is from qatar he does not spray champagne on the podium. Wonder if 'doping' is ok with them though :p

damn unlucky (?) for the guy just as he was doing so well

Edited by goldenboy, 02 November 2012 - 00:12.


#2056 GSiebert

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 08:19

50 minutes documentary about Stoner from Channel 10 :

#2057 GSiebert

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 08:23

Sam Lowes stays in WSS and signs with Russian team Yakhnich Motorsport and Yamaha for next year.

Edited by GSiebert, 02 November 2012 - 08:29.


#2058 Rob

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 11:10

Michele Pirro's replacement could be Ryuichi Kiyonari, in a shock return to MotoGP.

http://www.motorcycl...ck-motogp-deal/

#2059 Tarzaan

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 12:30

:wave:
Superstock is closer to serial/production based than Superbikes



Yes, I know this:) So no need to invent/contriver the superstock category, it still exist. If Yamaha want to race there it's possible;)

Sam Lowes stays in WSS and signs with Russian team Yakhnich Motorsport and Yamaha for next year.


Yamaha rientra in SBK con Yakhnich
http://www.gpone.com...n-Yakhnich.html

It says they want to go to WSB from 2014, and they hope factory support.


Swan (SMR) Yamaha might continue as Yamaha Racing:
'I'm not throwing in the towel. Yet…' - Muir
http://www.bikesport...amp;newsid=8350


Marquez To Keep Stoner's Tech Dream Team
http://www.superbike...Nov/121101b.htm


+1:

WSBK: 39 Engines--Myth or Fact?
http://www.superbike...ov/121101oo.htm

Edited by Tarzaan, 02 November 2012 - 12:33.


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#2060 Rob

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 12:33

It says they want to go to WSB from 2014, and they hope factory support.


It's possible. Superstock rules might tip the balance in favour of a factory return.

#2061 kosmic33

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 12:54

WSBK: 39 Engines--Myth or Fact?
http://www.superbike...ov/121101oo.htm

They kind of bend the truth in that article.

They essentially use 1 engine per bike per weekend.
And that's in the least powerful 4 cylinder on the grid......

#2062 GSiebert

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 13:20

There is nothing wrong with the Honda engine (just check the top speed charts, Rea is always near the top). The Yoshimura Suzuki engine was by far the least powerful engine this season.

#2063 kosmic33

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 16:35

There is nothing wrong with the Honda engine (just check the top speed charts, Rea is always near the top). The Yoshimura Suzuki engine was by far the least powerful engine this season.

Of the top 10 riders at Aragon he was slower than all the 4 cylinder bikes and barely quicker than the Ducatis but maybe you class 8th out of 10 & 9kmh slower than the Aprilia as near the top?
http://sbk.perugiati...mp;p_Stampa=BES

Edited by kosmic33, 02 November 2012 - 16:36.


#2064 Bartel

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 21:40

Stoner remains adamant he is retired for good but only citing the state and direction of the sport of MotoGP.
Stoner

Well in 25 years of closing following motorcycle GP racing I think there's plenty of precedent for "the planets lining up" and Casey feeling excited about MotoGP again.

The sport is in an ugly state at the moment and Stoner retiring is far from the only reason I am considering drifting off to other interests. I never appreciated Dorna's running of the sport and the introduction of heavy 4-stroke prototypes in place of the spectacular 500 2-strokes. The demise of 125 and 250 has provided a symmetry but a decline in traditional roadracing technique in my opinion. Structurally though, I think a big shake up is inevitable soon as MotoGP is in a sick state.

If as seems quite likely Jorge wins again in 2013/14 HRC will at the least be on the phone with offers that Casey may find hard to ignore. There are also plenty of precedents for people retiring too early and changing their minds. In my mind Casey retired too early but it's HIS mind that has to change. Sometimes normal life can be too much to cope with.

Talents like Stoner don't come around very often.

He will be back, I am almost sure of it. Not next year, not the year after, but I think, come 2015, the prodigal son will return.

In saying that, I also believe people have underestimated Marquez, I see him as a strong title contender, mistakes and crashes are the only thing that will stop him, he has the speed, and I think he will win numerous races next year, Jorge won't have it easy.

#2065 kosmic33

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 21:48

In saying that, I also believe people have underestimated Marquez, I see him as a strong title contender, mistakes and crashes are the only thing that will stop him, he has the speed, and I think he will win numerous races next year, Jorge won't have it easy.

Most importantly, he has the best bike......

#2066 DS27

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 23:18

I wish it weren't so, but I don't think Casey will ever be back.

He will enjoy the V8 Supercars too much, and it's a better environment for his family, so I just don't see it.

#2067 BigCHrome

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 03:25

Most importantly, he has the best bike......


It won't necessarily be the best bike next year.

#2068 Tarzaan

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 09:55

Laverty: 2013 last big year for WSBK?

http://www.crash.net...r_for_wsbk.html

I1m afraid Eugene has right :|

#2069 chunder27

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 10:09

I think the fact that WSB and GP are not battling against each other for ratings and riders is a good thing for the future.

But, a clear diffentiation between the two needs to be made, a top class WSB team is almost as expensive to run as a top GP team, OK maybe not as much as the factory teams like Honda and Yamaha, but not far away.

No need for electronics as much in WSB, tuning yes, maybe looka t the BSB rules, those bikes have not been sliding loads crashing, tyres now are so good they dont struggle for grip as much as in the past.

The big thing for me is that WSS needs to be a feeder class for Moto2, more standard bike again and hopefully we can get different engines in Moto2 as we do in Moto3, which has made it better.

#2070 Tarzaan

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 10:41

from the comments:


Biaggi scheduled a press conference for Nov 7th. (In Vallelunga, where he started his racing career...) Retirement seems very likely at this point...


I think the fact that WSB and GP are not battling against each other for ratings and riders is a good thing for the future.


I don't share your optimism/opinion.

But, a clear diffentiation between the two needs to be made, a top class WSB team is almost as expensive to run as a top GP team, OK maybe not as much as the factory teams like Honda and Yamaha, but not far away.


Maybe the MotoGP needs this - because top WSB bikes about same fast than private GP bikes, and faster than CRTs - , but not WSB. And IMHO a top class WSB team far not as expensive than a top class GP team + they can sold/rent their bikes in the end of the season + don't forget, in WSB has twice as much races than in GP.


No need for electronics as much in WSB, tuning yes, maybe looka t the BSB rules, those bikes have not been sliding loads crashing, tyres now are so good they dont struggle for grip as much as in the past.


Production/street bikes have advanced electronics than superstocks, so it would be a little bit ridiculous if a WSB bikes have less electronics (or use ECU) than production bikes.

As Silver Bullet wrote in crash comments:

Where is your proof that WSBK costs have spiraled?
WSBK rules are pretty close to perfect at the moment.
No one manufacturer has any clear advantage over others.
Big money factory teams aren't able to simply outspend the others for wins. How many times this season didnt privateers beat the factory teams?
Customer bikes are also very capable of winning races, & even independent underdeveloped bikes like the Pedercini Kawa's were competitive in the right hands.
CRT's are racing in a class they have zero chance of winning. Their budget's could be $10 or $10 billion & it wouldnt change a thing.
The biggest difference between WSBK & BSB team budgets is travel, accommodation & logistics. The equipment & personnel costs are similar.
BSB is losing as many big teams as it is getting. It's no better off for "Evo" rules than it was before.



The big thing for me is that WSS needs to be a feeder class for Moto2, more standard bike again and hopefully we can get different engines in Moto2 as we do in Moto3, which has made it better.


Whaaaaat?

Feder class for Moto2?

Moto2 is a feeder class, not the WSB.

WSB is a top class like the MotoGP.

More standard bikes? What is the standard?

Ezpelata & Dorna made ridiculous the GP, but to made the same with WSB will not a cure for their earlier mistakes.

I hope the teams/factories or some EU organization will able to stop that idiot.

Edited by Tarzaan, 03 November 2012 - 10:46.


#2071 kosmic33

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 11:22

Maybe the MotoGP needs this - because top WSB bikes about same fast than private GP bikes, and faster than CRTs - , but not WSB. And IMHO a top class WSB team far not as expensive than a top class GP team + they can sold/rent their bikes in the end of the season + don't forget, in WSB has twice as much races than in GP.

SBK - 15 races x 2 x 30 mins = 900mins
Moto GP - 19 races x 45 mins = 855mins
45 mins = 1 more race instead of twice as many.....

I guarantee Aprilia & BMW are spending a lot more in WSB than and non-factory Moto GP team.
And a factory SBK is no where near as fast as a private (ie:Tech 3) Moto GP bike

SBK Phillip Island fastest lap 2012: Checa 1:32.848
Moto GP CRT Phillip Island 2012: Espagaro 1:32.305

And Althea Ducati probably use twice as many engines a year and have a bigger budget than Aspar Aprilia.......

So looks like you were wrong on all counts there :drunk:

#2072 kosmic33

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 11:29

Production/street bikes have advanced electronics than superstocks, so it would be a little bit ridiculous if a WSB bikes have less electronics (or use ECU) than production bikes.


I didnt realise that a Kawasaki ZX-10 road bike now includes a €100,000 Magnetti Marelli electronics package

I hope the teams/factories or some EU organization will able to stop that idiot.

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

#2073 hotstickyslick

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 11:35

Crash.net is full of anti-Dorna sentiment and I don't really understand why. The only thing Ezpeleta is guilty of is letting the manufacturers have their way.

#2074 GSiebert

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 12:00

I guarantee Aprilia & BMW are spending a lot more in WSB than and non-factory Moto GP team.


If you can't give numbers and sources, what you say is irrelevant. I'm not saying you're wrong, just that saying "I can guarantee" doesn't make it true.


#2075 Risil

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 12:11

Crash.net is full of anti-Dorna sentiment and I don't really understand why. The only thing Ezpeleta is guilty of is letting the manufacturers have their way.


That's certainly what Ezpeleta would like you to think. ;)

#2076 Tarzaan

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 12:13

SBK - 15 races x 2 x 30 mins = 900mins
Moto GP - 19 races x 45 mins = 855mins
45 mins = 1 more race instead of twice as many.....


This years WSB races takes about 35/40 minutes.

WSB: Race distance must be from a minimum of 90 km to a maximum of 110 km. (from wiki)
GP: about 120km (usually less)

WSB: 90/110km racing
GP: 120km boring



I guarantee Aprilia & BMW are spending a lot more in WSB than and non-factory Moto GP team.
And a factory SBK is no where near as fast as a private (ie:Tech 3) Moto GP bike


A private GP team didn't develop a bike, they just rent it, and they can reach the podium only with luck.

A factory WSB team has to develope a bike, and can fight for the championchip with that + they can sell/rent their bike to private teams.


SBK Phillip Island fastest lap 2012: Checa 1:32.848
Moto GP CRT Phillip Island 2012: Espagaro 1:32.305


WSB lap record 1'30.882 (Checa), Max also can do a 1'30.895. Sykes do 1:31. this year. Best CRT qualy was 1’31.667 (half year later)


http://www.crash.net...encia_test.html

Sykes' best lap of 1m 32.8s compared to his time of 1m 33.1s at the circuit in testing last year, while Baz lapped in 1m 33.4s. Last year Dani Pedrosa do a 1m32,54sec lap and it was enough for P2 on the grid.


In Donnington this years WSB pole was 1m27.716s (by Sykes), which is faster than the pole of Rossi from 2010 (1:28.116). The 2011 pole by Carlos was alo faster, 1m28.099.

And Althea Ducati probably use twice as many engines a year and have a bigger budget than Aspar Aprilia.......



See my comment from yesterday.

Edited by Tarzaan, 03 November 2012 - 12:15.


#2077 GSiebert

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 16:19

Do you recognize them ? :)

https://pbs.twimg.co...AUtZp.jpg:large

#2078 Atreiu

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 16:36

Marquez and?

#2079 Chubby_Deuce

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 16:41

He has Bradl's number on his hat.

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#2080 manmower

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 18:16

Bautista?

#2081 GSiebert

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 18:17

No he's not in the GP paddock.

#2082 Rob

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 18:19

I see a Rossi shirt and a Capirossi cap so I'm guessing he's an Italian.

#2083 Risil

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 18:54

Kevin Schwantz

#2084 GSiebert

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 18:56

Nope, and its not Hailwood either if that's of any help.

#2085 ehagar

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 19:03

This years WSB races takes about 35/40 minutes.


In Donnington this years WSB pole was 1m27.716s (by Sykes), which is faster than the pole of Rossi from 2010 (1:28.116). The 2011 pole by Carlos was alo faster, 1m28.099.




See my comment from yesterday.


Donington Park is not a good measuring stick. For some reason the grip and traction at the place varies wildly. For the longest time the circuit record was held by a BSB Ducati, not a 500 or WSBK bike. Can't remember the rider... Was it Hizzy?

Edited by ehagar, 03 November 2012 - 19:04.


#2086 kosmic33

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 19:04

If you can't give numbers and sources, what you say is irrelevant. I'm not saying you're wrong, just that saying "I can guarantee" doesn't make it true.

Nakamoto thinks BMW are spending €15million
http://www.motorcycl...ible-to-police/

And lets face it, HE WOULD KNOW

#2087 kosmic33

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 19:05

Donington Park is not a good measuring stick. For some reason the grip and traction at the place varies wildly. For the longest time the circuit record was held by a BSB Ducati, not a 500 or WSBK bike. Can't remember the rider... Was it Hizzy?

Hizzy went faster in BSB qualifying than Rossi went in Moto GP qualifying in the 1st year of the 4 strokes

#2088 Tarzaan

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 21:40

Nakamoto thinks BMW are spending €15million
http://www.motorcycl...ible-to-police/

And lets face it, HE WOULD KNOW


BMW had 2 factory teams.

#2089 SteF1an

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 21:45

Do you recognize them ? :)

https://pbs.twimg.co...AUtZp.jpg:large

Marquez and Terol

#2090 GSiebert

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 22:24

Nope, not in the GP paddock I said :p

#2091 Rob

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 22:42

Looking at it again I'd have said Eugene Laverty but I think he's too old to be the kid in the photo. Niccolo Canepa?

Does the kid race motorbikes?

#2092 kosmic33

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 22:43

Marquez and?

Joan Lascorz

#2093 GSiebert

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 22:50

Looking at it again I'd have said Eugene Laverty but I think he's too old to be the kid in the photo. Niccolo Canepa?

Does the kid race motorbikes?

Yes, he won a race in a world championship this year. :smoking:
He's not italian or spanish.

Edited by GSiebert, 03 November 2012 - 22:52.


#2094 Rob

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 23:08

Yes, he won a race in a world championship this year. :smoking:
He's not italian or spanish.


Loris Baz.

#2095 Disgrace

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 23:16

I think that's it.

#2096 GSiebert

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 23:27

Hehe :up:

#2097 GSiebert

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 09:52

Dennis Noyes ‏@DennisNoyes
Cleared up any doubts.Max´s press conference from Vallelunga is just a greeting to his fans. Congrats @maxbiaggi on 6th title!

#2098 GSiebert

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 09:54

Pedercini's riders for 2013 :
SBK : Alexander Lundh & Simone Grotzkyj
STK1000 : Brian Staring & Leandro Mercado

#2099 Tarzaan

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 14:45

Alstare Ducati outcome expected this week
http://www.crash.net..._this_week.html

WSS: Italian prospect Marconi in PTR deal
http://www.crash.net...n_ptr_deal.html


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#2100 Youichi

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 17:29

Speedweek says Marquez' team is hacking the ECU

overriding the quickshifter to keep pumping fuel through
apparently espargaro's team cottoned on and implimented recently as well...


According to Dorna the quickshifters are free in Moto2......so Marquez' team are clever not cheating.

http://motomatters.c.....8MotoMatters)