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2012 - MotoGP, WSB, Moto2, WSP, AMA, BSB Part II


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#401 DrProzac

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 18:25

This is link to epic 1 race from WSB on Silverstone from official YT channel of italian broadcaster SBK - WSBK Silverstone - Race1, with a special dedication to the fans of old MotoGP/500cc (

Wow, I must watch WSB much more often than I usually do!

Thanks for the link :up:

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#402 kosmic33

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 20:23

The Ducati WSBK factory team left when Rossi arrived, who wants to bet they'll be back next year ? They'll need to shine somewhere.

Like Shakey on the monstermob (???) Ducati!!!!!!!

#403 GSiebert

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 21:10

Wow, I must watch WSB much more often than I usually do!

Thanks for the link :up:


The whole world should watch WSBK more often, its the best racing on the planet, and 100% artifact free. :cat:

#404 Nova

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 22:16

Ducati couldn't but a bike that suited him, but he couldn't ride it as well simple as that.

All in all Ducati and Rossi were not made for eachother (as i already said back when they announced Rossi) and it's good for both that they seperate from eachother. I think it will do both Rossi and Ducati good in the end.



Even Stoner couldn't make the Ducati a championship winner in the end. Rossi gave it a try, Ducati did not and Rossi took the natural conclusions. Don't fault him for that at all. At most Rossi can take some flack for saying that Stoner was not trying enough, and he has already admitted he was wrong in faulting Yamaha for putting their faith in Lorenzo. It's all good.

#405 Kaiser

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 01:20

Even Stoner couldn't make the Ducati a championship winner in the end. Rossi gave it a try, Ducati did not and Rossi took the natural conclusions. Don't fault him for that at all. At most Rossi can take some flack for saying that Stoner was not trying enough, and he has already admitted he was wrong in faulting Yamaha for putting their faith in Lorenzo. It's all good.


Ducati didn't try? They went in an entirely different direction for Rossi. They went through half a dozen swing arms for the guy, trying to get him comfortable with the bike. They had updates right until the end for the guy.

Stoner won a championship on the duc, and was winning races all the way until the end of his time on the bike. Stoner adapted to his bikes.

#406 ehagar

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 03:53

Like Hopkins last year ? :cat:


There was a time when the Wild cards were unknowns on the world stage.... particularly the Japanese. I've always been interested in seeing how the MFJ wildcards would perform at Sugo or Suzuki. Sometimes it was quite startling... who is this Abe, Tamada, etc... and what is he doing leading?!?!?! Wish Sugo was still on the WSBK schedule. Loved that race.


#407 carbonfibre

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 07:42

Ducati didn't try? They went in an entirely different direction for Rossi. They went through half a dozen swing arms for the guy, trying to get him comfortable with the bike. They had updates right until the end for the guy.

Stoner won a championship on the duc, and was winning races all the way until the end of his time on the bike. Stoner adapted to his bikes.

This is my view as well, they abandoned the carbon fibre chassis because of Rossi, all the updates they did were because Rossi and his crew demanded them. I believe the last two years the Ducati has undergone more updates then Stoner has ever had during his period at Ducati. Sure there were still a lot of updates that had to be done but many people here don't seem to realise that Ducati has nowhere near the amount of money and manpower compared to the japanese bike manufacturers.

In the end it may have come good with Ducati but they needed more time, and Rossi simply didn't have the time to wait it out.

#408 goldenboy

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 07:49

had enough of seeing rossi languishing at the back, glad to see him at yamaha taking on lorenzo, will be interesting whicj we need with stoner gone. Would be cool to see him retire as a champ again.

#409 EvanRainer

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 08:50

Here we go again with this discussion with people that know nothing and pay very little attention.

Stoner NEVER won with the bike that Rossi rode. The bikes and their relative performance are not the same year to year.

Yes, Stoner would probably be a bit faster but he would have come nowhere NEAR a win on the GP11 and the GP12.

Edited by EvanRainer, 12 August 2012 - 08:50.


#410 rhukkas

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 08:52

Here we go again with this discussion with people that know nothing and pay very little attention.

Stoner NEVER won with the bike that Rossi rode. The bikes and their relative performance are not the same year to year.

Yes, Stoner would probably be a bit faster but he would have come nowhere NEAR a win on the GP11 and the GP12.


Rossi was a good second or two off Stoner when he tested the Ducati GP10. The bike Stoner won on.

#411 Zippel

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 10:05

Here we go again with this discussion with people that know nothing and pay very little attention.


Yeah, so pay attention will ya!

http://forums.autosp...a...t&p=5651408

http://forums.autosp...a...t&p=5728041

#412 Nova

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 10:13

Ducati didn't try? They went in an entirely different direction for Rossi. They went through half a dozen swing arms for the guy, trying to get him comfortable with the bike. They had updates right until the end for the guy.

Stoner won a championship on the duc, and was winning races all the way until the end of his time on the bike. Stoner adapted to his bikes.



Burges said parts never came, and he is used to the all winning Yamaha. Apparently half a dozen swing arms didn't impress him. Stoner apparently can force heat into tires with his style, but it made him ride on the edge, making it less likely that he could last a season. It doesn't make the Ducati a good bike, nor Rossi a bad rider. Rossi made the only sensible choice given what he has seen at Ducati. Again, it's all good.

#413 GSiebert

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 11:48

According to Mediaset, Dovi signed a 2 years contract with Ducati.

#414 Atreiu

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 11:48

This is link to epic 1 race from WSB on Silverstone from official YT channel of italian broadcaster SBK - WSBK Silverstone - Race1, with a special dedication to the fans of old MotoGP/500cc (



Well, rumors tell that Checa after the first rides on the Panigale SBK was very disappointed.




Nice find!

If you guys had to name some classic 250cc races, which would they be?

#415 ocp

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 13:21

Nice find!

If you guys had to name some classic 250cc races, which would they be?

Wildcard winner, still remember him...


Edited by ocp, 12 August 2012 - 13:36.


#416 kosmic33

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 15:57

Nice find!

If you guys had to name some classic 250cc races, which would they be?

Jacque V Nakano for the 250cc title, Last race, Last Lap.
I was jumping around the sitting room at about 5am watching it.

http://www.dailymoti...p-250-oj-1_auto

#417 GSiebert

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 16:26

I just rewatched the 2001 Phillip Island 500cc race, amazing race with Rossi, Biaggi, Barros, Capirossi, Haga and Jacque all fighting for the lead, and Rossi's title at the end. :smoking:

Edited by GSiebert, 12 August 2012 - 16:28.


#418 GX390

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 16:30

According to Mediaset, Dovi signed a 2 years contract with Ducati.


If that's true, it will be an all British Tech 3 team next year.

#419 GSiebert

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 16:56

Not sure, Crutchlow said he didn't want to spend 2 more years in a private team, and apparently he has an offer from Ducati to be in their "junior" team.

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#420 Nova

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 17:20

Wildcard winner, still remember him...



What could have been :cry:

#421 Reinmuster

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 02:56

Not sure, Crutchlow said he didn't want to spend 2 more years in a private team, and apparently he has an offer from Ducati to be in their "junior" team.


It doesn't make sense. Cal should stick with Tech 3 if factory bikes deal didn't happen.




#422 marchi-91

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 04:44

Burges said parts never came, and he is used to the all winning Yamaha. Apparently half a dozen swing arms didn't impress him. Stoner apparently can force heat into tires with his style, but it made him ride on the edge, making it less likely that he could last a season. It doesn't make the Ducati a good bike, nor Rossi a bad rider. Rossi made the only sensible choice given what he has seen at Ducati. Again, it's all good.


Not it's not all good, that arsehole ran his mouth constantly, slating Stoner for the success he achieved on a bikes that Rossi's only managed to get one podium from in nearly two years.

#423 Nova

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 06:13

Not it's not all good, that arsehole ran his mouth constantly, slating Stoner for the success he achieved on a bikes that Rossi's only managed to get one podium from in nearly two years.


The petulant child language aside, yes Rossi said some things he shouldn't. He learned the truth the hard way. The truth made him choose to go back to Yamaha. No need to demonize him totally.

#424 seahawk

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 06:26

We have not seen Stoner on the Yamaha. Rossi went from the very smooth and controlled Yamaha to the raw powerful Duc, Stoner went from the Duc to the still powerful and raw (compared to the Yamaha) Honda. I would not be surprised if Stoner would not like the Yamaha much.

#425 GSiebert

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 07:53

Not it's not all good, that arsehole ran his mouth constantly, slating Stoner for the success he achieved on a bikes that Rossi's only managed to get one podium from in nearly two years.


Two podiums :p

#426 Nova

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 07:57

We have not seen Stoner on the Yamaha. Rossi went from the very smooth and controlled Yamaha to the raw powerful Duc, Stoner went from the Duc to the still powerful and raw (compared to the Yamaha) Honda. I would not be surprised if Stoner would not like the Yamaha much.



I think it's meaningless to try to compare. It's just a lot of ifs and buts. What is obvious is that both Stoner and Rossi are top notch riders. When it comes to the question about Rossi going back to Yamaha I just find that it's perfectly ok to do given that he has tried to get Ducati to respond for two years, and they haven't delivered. It does not mean anything about Rossis abilities.

#427 piszkosfred

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 08:39

Rossi was a good second or two off Stoner when he tested the Ducati GP10. The bike Stoner won on.


Rossi NEVER run the GP10. He only tested the new bike at the Valencia test (Hayden the same).

#428 piszkosfred

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 08:57

Ducati didn't try? They went in an entirely different direction for Rossi. They went through half a dozen swing arms for the guy, trying to get him comfortable with the bike.


The changes Ducati made to their bikes since March:

- they tested the aluminium swingarm after Le Mans in Mugello, only used it on the 1st day in Barcelona, not since then,
- new electronics package for Barcelona and a slight change for Laguna Seca,
- minimal changes to the engine for Laguna Seca (not for performance, only to easier to adopt bigger modifications in the future).

That's all. 6 months.

Edited by piszkosfred, 13 August 2012 - 08:58.


#429 Nova

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 09:02

The changes Ducati made to their bikes since March:

- they tested the aluminium swingarm after Le Mans in Mugello, only used it on the 1st day in Barcelona, not since then,
- new electronics package for Barcelona and a slight change for Laguna Seca,
- minimal changes to the engine for Laguna Seca (not for performance, only to easier to adopt bigger modifications in the future).

That's all. 6 months.



In comparison with the Yamaha that already function well, and a Honda with some problems and all the work they have done ... Doesn't seem all that much if that is a correct statment.

#430 piszkosfred

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 09:03

This is my view as well, they abandoned the carbon fibre chassis because of Rossi...


And because of, with the carbon fibre chassis (and the 6 engine rule) basically you can't make any big changes to the engine for a full year.


#431 rhukkas

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 09:17

Rossi NEVER run the GP10. He only tested the new bike at the Valencia test (Hayden the same).


http://www.nextmoto....ati-gp10/11549/

#432 GSiebert

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 09:38

In comparison with the Yamaha that already function well, and a Honda with some problems and all the work they have done ... Doesn't seem all that much if that is a correct statment.


They have a different approach from last year.
Last year they built 3 different chassis and 2 different engines, none of them bring significant improvements, they seemed to be testing in all directions, without knowing where they were going. This winter they built a new chassis and are now using it as a base with only small tweaks to try to improve it. 2 very different approaches but none of them worked, meaning there is a problem at the very source of the designing process. Filippo Preziosi became some kind of a god after designing the 2007 Ducati but I'm not sure he'll keep his job next year now that Audi is there.

Edited by GSiebert, 13 August 2012 - 09:39.


#433 piszkosfred

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 10:17

http://www.nextmoto....ati-gp10/11549/


Compare these pictures, one is from the race (Stoner), one's from the test (Rossi). Did they look the same to you?

Posted Image Posted Image


#434 rhukkas

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 10:54

He tested the GP10 and GP11

this is the GP10 I believe.

Posted Image

Edited by rhukkas, 13 August 2012 - 10:59.


#435 GSiebert

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 11:51

Damn that Kangaroo Honda was cool :smoking:

#436 piszkosfred

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 12:36

He tested the GP10 and GP11

this is the GP10 I believe.


You're right, but I think the new bike was the priority.

#437 rhukkas

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 12:37

You're right, but I think the new bike was the priority.


...and he was slow on both. nothing wrong with that, so was everyone else bar Casey. Stoner is just a bit special when it comes to riding the Ducati. I'd go as far as saying when he was 'on it' he looked more dominant on the Ducati than on the Honda.

And by the way they were evaluating the GP10 Vs 'new Bike' to see which engine was better. So the GP10 as much of a priority as the GP11 at the imie because it would decide development direction. But you didn't realise Rossi had ridden the same bike as Casey and didn't want to accept Rossi couldn't ride it.

Edited by rhukkas, 13 August 2012 - 12:43.


#438 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 13:14

So we're going to dismantle Rossi's career based on not ragging an expiring bike the first day he rode it?

#439 rhukkas

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 13:21

So we're going to dismantle Rossi's career based on not ragging an expiring bike the first day he rode it?


There's no disputing that Rossi's reputation has taken a bit of a kicking. There isn't much doubt that Stoner would have achieved far better results on the GP11 and GP12. His recored from 2007-2010 proves that. he had his ups and downs, bt a far chunk of the time he had fundamental pace on the Ducati. And there is no way the GP11 was that much worse than the race winning GP10.

I think Rossi is one of the best riders in history, but it is fairly obvious he doesn't have that extra bit of magic Stoner does when it comes to raw out and out speed. He's better at many other things, but not that.

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#440 Risil

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 13:26

Don't sweat it, Ross. VR46 has always inspired irrationality. :cool:

#441 DS27

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 13:35

The heightened challenge doesn't justify the danger. IMHO.


It was declared a wet race, so surely they could have come in to change to inters or wets? Yes, the change would take a considerable amount of time, but if the rider feels it's too dangerous, it's a choice he can make, is it not..?

#442 Risil

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 13:47

It was declared a wet race, so surely they could have come in to change to inters or wets? Yes, the change would take a considerable amount of time, but if the rider feels it's too dangerous, it's a choice he can make, is it not..?


I don't buy the "they knew the risks" argument as a universal absolver-of-blame.

As Neil Hodgson said during the Brno round, usually the riders need protecting from themselves. Most riders unilaterally making the call to put themselves totally out of contention for points (do WSBK teams even have quick-change equipment for tyres?) would probably be out on their arse. These times are tough, and riders who don't do the maximum for their team and sponsor's interests -- regardless of their own safety -- will find themselves quickly Guintoli-ed. As Jared Earle alluded in his race report at Motomatters, it's not a coincidence that the top 3 in Race 1 were riders with very uncertain contract situations and no championship prospects to think about. Do you think the likes of Baz, Fabrizio and Badovini have made so much money from racing that they can afford to sit out a year, waiting for the right opportunity to come their way?

Loris Baz especially has a real once-in-a-lifetime opportunity going right now. Plenty of riders as talented as him never got the chances, but due to a weird and sad combination of circumstances he's lucked into one of the best rides in the world. For three months. No, I don't think he had much of a choice but to go for it.

Edited by Risil, 13 August 2012 - 13:51.


#443 GSiebert

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 14:15

Yeah Baz, Fabrizio and Badovini don't have any contract for next year and have no hope for the title, but Rea and Melandri were right there at the end, Biaggi was in the leading pack until he crashed in the last lap and Checa led most of the race before he dropped back. Baz is an heavy rider, his weight helps him a lot in those conditions, concerning the BMW Italia guys, maybe they nailed their wet setup who knows ?

I think you're overreacting, they were so slow with slicks on a wet track that nobody could have been seriously injured, especialy here at this wiiiiiiiiiiide and empty track.

Edited by GSiebert, 13 August 2012 - 14:25.


#444 Risil

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 14:40

I think you're overreacting, they were so slow with slicks on a wet track that nobody could have been seriously injured, especialy here at this wiiiiiiiiiiide and empty track.


I think you could be right about the relatively low cornering speeds, although Biaggi's and Badovini's accidents looked fast enough. You don't need particularly high speeds to be struck by a bike and seriously injured, either. Just enough (bad) luck.

Sepang and Misano's Curvone are wide and empty too, of course.

That race at Silverstone was chaotic, but I think Superbike racing can do better than chaotic. That's a personal opinion. There's a difference between, say, Rossi vs. Lorenzo at Catalunya in 2009 and Spies vs. Stoner at Valencia last year.

Edited by Risil, 13 August 2012 - 14:45.


#445 Chubby_Deuce

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 18:56

Baz is an heavy rider, his weight helps him a lot in those conditions


How's that?

#446 GSiebert

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 19:21

Helps him putting heat into the tires, and catching the bike when he loses it. That's what I read anyway :)

#447 hammibal

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 19:34

So we're going to dismantle Rossi's career based on not ragging an expiring bike the first day he rode it?

I thought all along that Rossi had ridden Stoner's GP10, i remember comments from Rossi about how much more physical it was to ride than the Yamaha but also it has to be remembered that Rossi had still not fully recovered from injury, but interesting to see fresh excuses coming out now the truth comes out.

#448 PokePoke

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 19:55

That race at Silverstone was chaotic, but I think Superbike racing can do better than chaotic. That's a personal opinion. There's a difference between, say, Rossi vs. Lorenzo at Catalunya in 2009 and Spies vs. Stoner at Valencia last year.

Please, watch rest 2012 seasons races (Philip Island, Donington, Assen, Aragon or even Brno) or even from previous years. Crazy shuffling leaders in the final laps is business as usual.
People can not justify the lack of any action on the track in MotoGP by giving a few exceptions.

#449 piszkosfred

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 08:01

So the GP10 as much of a priority as the GP11 at the imie because it would decide development direction. But you didn't realise Rossi had ridden the same bike as Casey and didn't want to accept Rossi couldn't ride it.


You know, I have about 300 pictures about this test downloaded from various sites, the one you posted is the only one on which Rossi rides the GP10. So I'm little bit suprised.


#450 Chubby_Deuce

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 11:08

Helps him putting heat into the tires, and catching the bike when he loses it. That's what I read anyway :)


An interesting angle but did they explain why the others don't wear additional weight for rain races if that's the case?