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Kimi to Ferrari Rumours


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Poll: Kimi to Ferrari Rumours (428 member(s) have cast votes)

Do you think Kimi should go to Ferrari if they offer him the seat ?

  1. Yes (96 votes [22.64%])

    Percentage of vote: 22.64%

  2. No (328 votes [77.36%])

    Percentage of vote: 77.36%

If you were in Kimi shoes, what would you do to in the same situation ?

  1. Stay at Lotus (340 votes [80.19%])

    Percentage of vote: 80.19%

  2. Go to Ferrari (84 votes [19.81%])

    Percentage of vote: 19.81%

Kimi vs Fernando : Who do you think might have the upper hand ?

  1. Kimi Raikkonen (85 votes [20.05%])

    Percentage of vote: 20.05%

  2. Fernando Alonso (229 votes [54.01%])

    Percentage of vote: 54.01%

  3. Too close to call (110 votes [25.94%])

    Percentage of vote: 25.94%

Vote

#251 telmo

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 07:15

As an Alonso fan I also find it a bit depressing. I would really like to see him paired with a top driver again - Hamilton, Vettel or Kimi. If he spends the rest of his career with "number 2 drivers" then it will be the one thing people can say against him, just like they do against Schumacher - that, after getting away from Hamilton, he didn't have the nerve to go up against a top driver again in the same team. I understand that with only the 3rd or 4th fastest car, this is, at the moment, the correct strategy for Ferrari - they would not win the WDC if they had 2 drivers taking points off each other. But if they had a dominant car it would be very boring to watch Alonso always beating his teammate. Indeed if Alonso wins the WDC this year it will be his 3rd WDC and his first with Ferrari, which means his major goal is achieved, and the only thing he could then prove is to go up against a top driver in the same team and beat him (or have the grace to accept if that driver beat him, just like Lewis did with Button last year). It would be a real shame if he didn't take that challenge on.


Massa was the Ferrari no1 when Alonso joined, and was rated one of the top drivers in the sport by pundits and by the paddock, and Alonso going into his backyard was supposed to be a big challenge, yet when Alonso passed his challenge, instead of getting credit, history is rewritten, and his team mate is dismissed, and labelled a 'number 2'. You can't have it both ways, and label drivers number 2's just because Alonso destroys them. The fact that Fernando can make strong drivers like Massa appear to be incompetent number 2's is a testament to his greatness. You listed Kimi' as one of the 'top drivers' and completely ignore the fact that his current team mate proved to be better than Kimi when they were team mates. Just zero consistency in your arguments. If Button joined ferrari and was beaten, we would just hear the same old arguments, like the car not suiting them or Alonso getting special treatment, blah blah.

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#252 Oho

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 07:18

Massa was the Ferrari no1 when Alonso joined, and was rated one of the top drivers in the sport by pundits and by the paddock..


Again this is veering badly of topic but no he was not, Massa was considered more or less an unknown quantity following the accident that caused him life threatening injuries and quite nearly cost him his life.


#253 bourbon

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 07:19

The real question should be, why on earth would Ferrari replace Massa with the guy he beat when they were team mates at Ferrari only a few years ago?? ...


I disagree. The real question is, why on earth would anyone think that Ferrari would have the option to even consider Kimi Raikkonen as a possible replacement? What possible reason would Kimi have for stepping anywhere near that joint ever again?



#254 Cesc

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 07:25

Again this is veering badly of topic but no he was not, Massa was considered more or less an unknown quantity following the accident that caused him life threatening injuries and quite nearly cost him his life.


Massa qualified second (ahead of Alonso) in Bahrain and ended second as well, and that was his very first race after the accident. I find quite poor use the accident to justify his performance against Alonso, in a way, you always find that excuse after all: Massa is not the same, he has to let Alonso pass (I wonder how many times have that happened). All discussion of 2008 and 2009 performance ends up with an excuse impossible to prove, that Massa after 2009 is worse than before and that's why Alonso is beating him so clearly.

#255 Vesuvius

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 07:30

Massa qualified second (ahead of Alonso) in Bahrain and ended second as well, and that was his very first race after the accident. I find quite poor use the accident to justify his performance against Alonso, in a way, you always find that excuse after all: Massa is not the same, he has to let Alonso pass (I wonder how many times have that happened). All discussion of 2008 and 2009 performance ends up with an excuse impossible to prove, that Massa after 2009 is worse than before and that's why Alonso is beating him so clearly.


The truth is Massa has not performed on similar level after his accident, I don't say it's because of the accident but it's just the truth his results are worse and he is not on similar level, Ferrari has many times said that they hope and believe Massa will be back to his 2008 level and Massa has stated the same...with good car his results are still ok but not on the level as seen before.

#256 hijinx

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 07:30

anyone remember when LDM said he won't put Alonso and Kimi together? I'm trying to piece the timeline puzzle... I just remembered that Kimi had an equal status clause in his contract and the recent SD comments that it has always been Ferrari's philosophy for a 1-2 driver setup got me thinking about it again. I'm thinking Kimi's sacking has everything to do with his contract clause which goes against Ferrari's philosophy.

#257 telmo

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 07:31

Telmo,

you can't barge in here and tell people off what they should think and feel about Kimi - those people reporting about kimi to ferrari rumors state that their sources come from inside ferrari. we didn't make those rumors up. so think twice before you write the things you have written. not that kimi fans relish the idea of him going back to that team anyway so chillax, all will be right in your world come season 2013.



I am merely offering my own opinion just as you and others are. Just because you don't like different opinions to your own does not give you right to try and shut them down.

#258 velgajski1

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 07:32

Massa was the Ferrari no1 when Alonso joined, and was rated one of the top drivers in the sport by pundits and by the paddock, and Alonso going into his backyard was supposed to be a big challenge, yet when Alonso passed his challenge, instead of getting credit, history is rewritten, and his team mate is dismissed, and labelled a 'number 2'. You can't have it both ways, and label drivers number 2's just because Alonso destroys them. The fact that Fernando can make strong drivers like Massa appear to be incompetent number 2's is a testament to his greatness. You listed Kimi' as one of the 'top drivers' and completely ignore the fact that his current team mate proved to be better than Kimi when they were team mates. Just zero consistency in your arguments. If Button joined ferrari and was beaten, we would just hear the same old arguments, like the car not suiting them or Alonso getting special treatment, blah blah.


Ferrari is known to use the special treatment which was also seen in 2010. on track, and which is something they hinted now - that they always want to have one top driver and one 'very good' driver. You don't think Alonso was brought to be a 'very good' driver???

Besides that, not sure who considered Massa to be a top driver. Regulary (and comfortably) beaten by Schumacher, beaten by Kimi in 2007., and only beaten Kimi in 2008. when Kimi had a horrible season (how many crashes did this guy make in 2008?) + lost title that should have been won by all means to Hamilton.

Edited by velgajski1, 03 August 2012 - 07:34.


#259 Vesuvius

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 07:35

They know enough to not let any results this year influence their opinion of Kimi because he actually drove for them for 3 years. They know exactly how good he is, and they sacked him.


So why they still say Kimi is one of the best? :drunk: Domenicalli said during hungary weekend that Kimi is similar level with Alonso and they have many similar things...they don't complain about the car in public and always give their maximum with what they got!

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#260 telmo

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 07:43

Ferrari is known to use the special treatment which was also seen in 2010. on track, and which is something they hinted now - that they always want to have one top driver and one 'very good' driver. You don't think Alonso was brought to be a 'very good' driver???


Every team gives special treatment when one driver is out of world title contention. Mclaren and Redbull have done the same thing in recent years. Ferrari, like any team want two top drivers, but unfortunately they don't grow on trees, so its not always an option.

Besides that, not sure who considered Massa to be a top driver. Regulary (and comfortably) beaten by Schumacher, beaten by Kimi in 2007., and only beaten Kimi in 2008. when Kimi had a horrible season (how many crashes did this guy make in 2008?) + lost title that should have been won by all means to Hamilton.


It was pretty universal. In 2008, Ross brawn said the top drivers were Kimi, Alonso, Hamilton, with Massa right behind them.

#261 hijinx

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 07:46

I am merely offering my own opinion just as you and others are. Just because you don't like different opinions to your own does not give you right to try and shut them down.


I didn't try to shut you down. I am trying to tell you that you can have your opinion that Kimi is not good enough for ferrari seat, etc. but when you say things like Ferrari already know the bad quality of kimi and so they won't take him back, etc. this is obviously wrong. Sources have said that it is ferrari insiders who say that Kimi is the most suitable replacement for Massa - you are ignoring this fact and replacing with past performance results when none of us have a clue what was really going on inside Ferrari. The insider even mentioned that kimi is un-political. How hard it must have been for him to be in the most political team there is in F1? Have you even considered these variables? Anyway, all these things are unsubstantiated. Please go by statements from sources who are in F1. Don't let your hatred for kimi derail the topic.



#262 hijinx

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 07:50

Ferrari is known to use the special treatment which was also seen in 2010. on track, and which is something they hinted now - that they always want to have one top driver and one 'very good' driver. You don't think Alonso was brought to be a 'very good' driver???

Besides that, not sure who considered Massa to be a top driver. Regulary (and comfortably) beaten by Schumacher, beaten by Kimi in 2007., and only beaten Kimi in 2008. when Kimi had a horrible season (how many crashes did this guy make in 2008?) + lost title that should have been won by all means to Hamilton.

dun forget in 2008, kimi gave his positions to Massa in several races when he was out of contention... and some DNFs or loss in positions were not his fault... that's why 2008 is not a good year to be judging anyone in that team.

#263 telmo

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 07:51

I didn't try to shut you down. I am trying to tell you that you can have your opinion that Kimi is not good enough for ferrari seat, etc. but when you say things like Ferrari already know the bad quality of kimi and so they won't take him back, etc. this is obviously wrong. Sources have said that it is ferrari insiders who say that Kimi is the most suitable replacement for Massa - you are ignoring this fact and replacing with past performance results when none of us have a clue what was really going on inside Ferrari. The insider even mentioned that kimi is un-political. How hard it must have been for him to be in the most political team there is in F1? Have you even considered these variables? Anyway, all these things are unsubstantiated. Please go by statements from sources who are in F1. Don't let your hatred for kimi derail the topic.



Kimi drove for Ferrari for 3 years, so how is it wrong to suggest they know exactly how good he is? Its 100% true. There is no credible source that Ferrari are considering Kimi, none zero, unless you have a specific link its just a silly rumour. I don't hate Kimi, I just don't think he is that good.

#264 Oho

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 08:00

All discussion of 2008 and 2009 performance ends up with an excuse impossible to prove, that Massa after 2009 is worse than before and that's why Alonso is beating him so clearly.



And you respond with false dichotomy: Because I cannot prove Massa's performances are influenced by his accident or other latent factors the opposite must be true.

Oh incidentally in 2009 Germany is arbitrary cut of point, Hungary would do just as well, as in Hungary Massa much like Räikkönen in Germany was for reasons largely beyond his control unable to score, thus slashing the gap. But Germany is of course convenient when, for what ever reason, you need to establish what a piece of shit Räikkönen was at the time and still is which no doubt is your aim.

#265 Jovanotti

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 08:02

I don't hate Kimi, I just don't think he is that good.

There are tons of statements (pre and post 2008) of team bosses, technicians and drivers who think Räikkönen is something special and who are thrilled about his recent performances, although certain brainies keep saying he's shit and it's the car rather than him. Now, if you are asking people for links and sources, what if you would support your opinion with some facts first?

#266 hijinx

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 08:06

Kimi drove for Ferrari for 3 years, so how is it wrong to suggest they know exactly how good he is? Its 100% true. There is no credible source that Ferrari are considering Kimi, none zero, unless you have a specific link its just a silly rumour. I don't hate Kimi, I just don't think he is that good.

so all journalists who claim they heard from ferrari insiders are sprouting rubbish? I think this is a good time for ferrari to sue these journalists isn't it? whether you think kimi is good enough or not the issue. it's whether the ferrari team that thinks he's good enough or not is the real issue. but it is an insult to any WDC to come to ferrari now as a clear no.2. so I think SD must mean that it is one of those newbies or relative newbies - and even then the ferrari insiders say all of those drivers are uncertainties. so Ferrari are putting themselves in an impossible position. in the end, Massa keeps his job, that's what I think.

I actually think that Massa is having a tough time, not from a physical point of view, but a psychological one. When you're told to let ur teammate through while leading the race, that will put a damper on anyone. It seems that that was the point in time that Massa stopped in his tracks and began his downward spiral. To overcome such a kick to the stomach requires a mentally strong person.

I know you don't think much of kimi, but he is exactly the kind of person who can withstand these immense pressures. Just look at how he performed when he was called upon the company who had already told him they would get rid of him ahead of his contractual obligations, and even started a campaign a year earlier to put you down and set you up for failure? This speaks volumes about kimi, his situation in ferrari (which conveniently turned sour the moment todt stepped down), and of ferrari. You don't have to agree with me on every aspect, but just on his performance in the last half of 2009 should convince you that he isn't as bad as you make him out to be.

#267 Zava

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 08:12

anyone remember when LDM said he won't put Alonso and Kimi together? I'm trying to piece the timeline puzzle... I just remembered that Kimi had an equal status clause in his contract and the recent SD comments that it has always been Ferrari's philosophy for a 1-2 driver setup got me thinking about it again. I'm thinking Kimi's sacking has everything to do with his contract clause which goes against Ferrari's philosophy.

it was already clear back then in 2009, me and my friends were saying it even before it was made official that Kimi is going: Massa will be kept, because he is the no2 material, Kimi will be sent away, because he's not.

#268 telmo

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 08:18

so all journalists who claim they heard from ferrari insiders are sprouting rubbish?


Who are ALL these journalists? List them and the articles. I know Benson, said that an impeccable Ferrari source told him the rumours are rubbish but haven't heard anything about what you are talking about.

I actually think that Massa is having a tough time, not from a physical point of view, but a psychological one. When you're told to let ur teammate through while leading the race, that will put a damper on anyone. It seems that that was the point in time that Massa stopped in his tracks and began his downward spiral.


This is not true at all because if you payed attention you would have seen that Alonso was destroying Massa from the second race of 2010, well before he was told to move over at Germany. The logic does not stack up anyway. What happened in germany would have motivated him or any driver to beat Alonso more often, and consistently try to embarrass Alonso and Ferrari.

#269 Cesc

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 08:23

But Germany is of course convenient when, for what ever reason, you need to establish what a piece of shit Räikkönen was at the time and still is which no doubt is your aim.

Sorry? who said Kimi was a piece of shit? It's only an opinion, as yours. You're a little bit dramatic, don't you?

I just doubt that Raikkonen is THAT good. For me, he's not in the same league as Alonso nor Hamilton (in my opinion, the two best drivers out there), but he is quite beloved by fans so many people try to put him at the very top ignoring races and seasons that wouldn't be ignored if they were talking about Alonso. In Lotus he's doing a fine seaon, but he is not clearly beating Grosejan at all, in fact, in many races the french seems to be faster than him (Valencia is a good example), and he was not clearly faster than Massa during their 3 years together.

#270 hijinx

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 08:25

Who are ALL these journalists? List them and the articles. I know Benson, said that an impeccable Ferrari source told him the rumours are rubbish but haven't heard anything about what you are talking about.



This is not true at all because if you payed attention you would have seen that Alonso was destroying Massa from the second race of 2010, well before he was told to move over at Germany. The logic does not stack up anyway. What happened in germany would have motivated him or any driver to beat Alonso more often, and consistently try to embarrass Alonso and Ferrari.


the articles have been posted in numerous sources, I can't and won't bother finding them just to prove my point. Tony Dodgins and Mark Hughes come to mind... if you haven't heard anything about whatI said, it means you haven't been reading enough

on your second sentence, I think it is clear you don't know a thing about psychology. If you do, then you would know what a "trigger" or "stresser" is. enough said.

Edited by hijinx, 03 August 2012 - 09:22.


#271 hijinx

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 09:22

it was already clear back then in 2009, me and my friends were saying it even before it was made official that Kimi is going: Massa will be kept, because he is the no2 material, Kimi will be sent away, because he's not.

yeah, all I remember from that time about the rumors was that I thought he would leave F1... so much so, I went to Shanghai GP (to a GP for the first time actually) that year hoping to see him in the flesh before he leaves F1. It was so strong a feeling, and that was April 2009 - cos the GP fell around my anniversary... :cry:

#272 rko281

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 09:51

Wow, a new thread fot a Kimi bash fest :p

I don't see the point of continuing arguing over the topic of this thread as long as it was implied by Domenicalli that they are looking for a no.2 driver. No way Kimi is going back there and no way Ferrari will take alongside Alonso a word champion (RAI/HAM/BUT). Even Webber choose not to go there believing his chances are higher in a Red Bull than in a Ferrari and I'm not considering the car, but the teams structures.

It is interesting that this rumor appears from a journalist when there is a long break and no "big" topics. Kimi's name always sells and they are using it as usual.



#273 wrcva

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 11:04

anyone remember when LDM said he won't put Alonso and Kimi together? I'm trying to piece the timeline puzzle... I just remembered that Kimi had an equal status clause in his contract and the recent SD comments that it has always been Ferrari's philosophy for a 1-2 driver setup got me thinking about it again. I'm thinking Kimi's sacking has everything to do with his contract clause which goes against Ferrari's philosophy.

April, 22 2008 -- Montezemolo
April, 24 2008 -- Briatore
April, 30 2008 -- Domenicali
May, 24 2008 -- Monaco GP Quali Day

Edited by wrcva, 03 August 2012 - 12:49.


#274 hijinx

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 11:27

April, 22 2008 -- Montezemolo
April, 24 2008 -- Briatore
April, 30 2008 -- Domenicali
May, 24 2008 -- Monaco GP

Thank you WRCVA!

#275 wrcva

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 12:48

Thank you WRCVA!

:wave:



#276 Jacobss

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 15:09

Sorry? who said Kimi was a piece of shit? It's only an opinion, as yours. You're a little bit dramatic, don't you?

I just doubt that Raikkonen is THAT good. For me, he's not in the same league as Alonso nor Hamilton (in my opinion, the two best drivers out there), but he is quite beloved by fans so many people try to put him at the very top ignoring races and seasons that wouldn't be ignored if they were talking about Alonso. In Lotus he's doing a fine seaon, but he is not clearly beating Grosejan at all, in fact, in many races the french seems to be faster than him (Valencia is a good example), and he was not clearly faster than Massa during their 3 years together.

Well, I think you ignore that fact that your "two best drivers of the grid" are not perfect and they also made tons of mistakes and lost to some drivers.

Raikkonen proved in the past that he is in the top league, but either you are not watching F1 for very long or you have not a great memory. The years he was driving for McLaren were something special and even such driver like Montoya couldn't stand a chance. The problem with F1 is, that there are sometimes factors which hold the drivers to produce the best possibles results. That was when Alonso lost to a rookie, and when Hamilton lost to Button. Kimi had great time in McLaren, proving HE IS in a top league, but not so good time in Ferrari. Now he has good times in Lotus (not perfect), but he is constantly improving and in the last races he showed Grosjean where his place is (just like Alonso showed to Massa in China '10).

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#277 SpaMaster

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 15:31

This year, Grosjean has been faster than Raikkonen but more inconsistent. Grosjean's inconsistency is acceptable because he is a rookie, whereas Raikkonen's inability to outqualify his much less experienced teammate on a regular basis is not acceptable. It's as simple as that. ..

Why should Raikkonen outqualify Grosjean? Not necessary. End result is what that counts. A GP is not just qualifying, it is the overall speed. Qualy pace and race pace can be very different things. You can start behind as long as you can finish ahead. End justifies means. So, no.

#278 Buttoneer

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 15:58

Posts deleted.

If you're going to refer to posters as 'haters' or 'fanboys' or any derivation thereof, please remember that this constitutes a personal attack and is therefore against the board rules. It reduces the level of discussion and just escalates the unpleasant mood.

If you are unable to play the ball instead of the man, please either wait until you calm down or avoid posting altogether.

#279 wrcva

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Posted 04 August 2012 - 13:43

intersting article that explains various issues about this topic, and more...

WEBBER TO REPLACE MASSA RELOADED
P1Mag-eZINE, ISSUE NO. 20, June 2012

Luca di Montezemolo's presence in Valencia was no coincidence. Spain's banking crisis raised a couple of question marks and the Ferrari CEO also needed assurances also in terms of the driver lineup.

At a dinner on Saturday evening with Emilio Botin, CEO of the Santander banking corporation and the man behind the Scuderia's multizillion sponsorship, Montezemolo sought clarification of the situation. After all Botin, a fourth generation banker, is trying to keep his company above the tide after Santander's rating dropped to a BBB+, from A. The bank’s share price has been fluctuating quite a bit in the last months. The recent downgrades, specifically, are related to rating agency Fitch’s knockback of Spain’s sovereign credit rating, which is now at BBB, a lower medium score.

While Botin has in the past been influential, regarding the Scuderia's driver choice, the CEO has now more important issues to deal with and is busy reflecting on how to keep the bank on track, rather than worrying about driver contracts at the Scuderia. So the pressure on keeping either a Brazilian on board or at least bring in a quick Mexican – both countries being of utmost importance in the bank's foreign portfolio, is no longer on the priority list.

Montezemolo left the dinner with two vital issues cleared: Santander will honour the sponsorship contract in full and for the time being the Scuderia can nominate whoever they want – for 2013 that is.

The plan is to replace Felipe Massa with a quick and experienced driver, not with one of the Ferrari Academy drivers, such as Sergio Perez or Jules Bianchi. Mark Webber is the logical choice as he brings a wealth of experience from within the working environment of one of Ferrari's fiercest competitors – Red Bull Racing.

Webber, who's contract will only be anounced on the 6th of September prior to the Italian Grand Prix, has a oneyeardeal, worth 5,5 Million Euros. That sounds like good news for Sebastien Buemi who is likely to be promoted to second driver alongside Sebastian Vettel.

Webber, by the way, said he has had no offers from Ferrari. This statement, however, was made prior to the European Grand Prix. And it's legitimate as Flavio Briatore – also Fernando Alonso's manager is heading those negotiations and following Botin's go ahead there has been an a mutual agreement to finalize a deal in the coming weeks.

Webber's deal is believed to have been also been pushed by his close friend Fernando Alonso, who was keen to knit his environment ever more to his favour and this certainly is seen as good news to improve the climate in the team.


http://grandprixinsider.wordpress.com/


I find the following very interesting:

- Ferrari had to get Santander approval for driver decisions as a part of sponsorship deal officially started back in 2010, but signed in early 2008 (always denied by Ferrari, and Santander)
- the source of the "Latin-lineup" statements LdM has been making starting 2008, were in fact Botin's mandate to Ferrari that they had to have Brasilian or Mexican drivers next to Alonso
- Relationship between the Santander business interests in Latin America and the #2 driver choice have been pretty strong (always denied by Ferrari)
- Santander is in trouble: sounds like LdM was concerned about ongoing sponsorship money and wanted assurance "for the time being"...
- LdM had to get permission to proceed working on Webber's contract (with Briatore) for 2013 only

As we know Webber, later rejected the final Ferrari offer (smart choice), and that led to Ferrari preparing another list of candidates Kimi was a part of... how we ended up with this topic.

Boy... as time goes by we learn more and more about what really goes on behind closed doors. Sooner or later this relationship will implode, probably for financial reasons, or if Botin leaves Santander...

Edited by wrcva, 05 August 2012 - 01:21.


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#280 discover23

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Posted 04 August 2012 - 14:01

....The years he was driving for McLaren were something special and even such driver like Montoya couldn't stand a chance. The problem with F1 is, that there are sometimes factors which hold the drivers to produce the best possibles results.

Double standards? What you mentioned could have perfectly happened to Montoya when he left Williams.. No?
After all he was with Mclare for a very short stint, injured his shoulder and had a deteriorating relationship with the team.

Edited by discover23, 04 August 2012 - 14:04.


#281 Skinnyguy

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Posted 04 August 2012 - 15:28

After all he was with Mclare for a very short stint.


As a McLaren fan I can only say thanks God for that. He was both slow and incident and error prone.

#282 HPT

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 02:28

He should stay at Lotus and if I were him I'd stay there too. His chances of winning another title is definitely greater partnered with Grosjean than if he partnered Alonso. Furthermore, it looks like Lotus has the better car at the moment so staying put is really a no-brainer.

#283 velgajski1

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 08:13

Every team gives special treatment when one driver is out of world title contention. Mclaren and Redbull have done the same thing in recent years. Ferrari, like any team want two top drivers, but unfortunately they don't grow on trees, so its not always an option.


Telmo, you clearly didn't read the news, did you? :) Ferrari clearly stated (week or so ago) that they want top driver and a very good driver and that this was always their policy.

And Domenicali appeared to rule out the possibility of a bid for a second superstar name such as Raikkonen for 2013, saying that the team was simply looking for a "very good" driver to partner Alonso.

"It has always been Ferrari's philosophy to have a great champion and then a very good driver who is close to him," he was quoted as saying by Sky Deutschland this week.

Edited by velgajski1, 05 August 2012 - 08:16.


#284 rijole1

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 09:12

i don't think there's any realistic chance that kimi will be returning to ferrari. but it is advantageous for both sides to maintain this rumour.

ferrari because they want to give massa a kick and to let their other potential candidates know they have some competition.

kimi because he wants lotus (or another team) to approach him with a more favourable offer.

that's the way things work, rumours do not come out of nowhere, and they often lead to something quite different.


:up: You're so right

#285 Vesuvius

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 09:57

Telmo, you clearly didn't read the news, did you? :) Ferrari clearly stated (week or so ago) that they want top driver and a very good driver and that this was always their policy.

And Domenicali appeared to rule out the possibility of a bid for a second superstar name such as Raikkonen for 2013, saying that the team was simply looking for a "very good" driver to partner Alonso.

"It has always been Ferrari's philosophy to have a great champion and then a very good driver who is close to him," he was quoted as saying by Sky Deutschland this week.


this is quite funny as Ferrari has always said their drivers have equal treatment...even during Irvine and Barrichello days when they clearly had only number two role but Ferrari always said there are no number two :lol:


#286 Sakae

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 10:04

@Vesuvius: If Ferarri states there is no No. 2 driver in their organization, why are you then making, or basing on, your contrarian claims?

Edited by Sakae, 05 August 2012 - 10:04.


#287 Vesuvius

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 10:11

@Vesuvius: If Ferarri states there is no No. 2 driver in their organization, why are you then making, or basing on, your contrarian claims?


because now they say there is number two (and always have been) and Barrichello and Irivine have said they were number two drivers (and everyone could see that too, austria 2002 etc)

#288 prty

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 10:42

Telmo, you clearly didn't read the news, did you? :) Ferrari clearly stated (week or so ago) that they want top driver and a very good driver and that this was always their policy.

And Domenicali appeared to rule out the possibility of a bid for a second superstar name such as Raikkonen for 2013, saying that the team was simply looking for a "very good" driver to partner Alonso.

"It has always been Ferrari's philosophy to have a great champion and then a very good driver who is close to him," he was quoted as saying by Sky Deutschland this week.

this is quite funny as Ferrari has always said their drivers have equal treatment...even during Irvine and Barrichello days when they clearly had only number two role but Ferrari always said there are no number two :lol:


Oh, but that quote doesn't say anything about equal treatment, even if you want to twist it like that.

Furthermore, having a "great champion" and a "very good driver" is what McLaren also seeked in Hamilton-Kovalainen or Hamilton-Button, and Red Bull is seeking with Vettel and Webber, and what Lotus is seeking in Raikkonen and Grosjean. So Domenicalli didn't say anything extraordinary, even if some are desperately trying to clutch at straws. :D

#289 2ms

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 13:06

Oh, but that quote doesn't say anything about equal treatment, even if you want to twist it like that.

Furthermore, having a "great champion" and a "very good driver" is what McLaren also seeked in Hamilton-Kovalainen or Hamilton-Button, and Red Bull is seeking with Vettel and Webber, and what Lotus is seeking in Raikkonen and Grosjean. So Domenicalli didn't say anything extraordinary, even if some are desperately trying to clutch at straws. :D


Actually, at Lotus the word is that Boullier was hoping his client would be the "great champion" and there would be another driver. But other members and ownership of the team basically went and got Kimi behind his back. So can't say anything in Lotus was very organized/concerted effort at particular arrangement. It just sorta happened and now the driver principal wanted to be a "great champion" has been relegated to 2nd by virtue of having fewer points

Edited by 2ms, 05 August 2012 - 13:07.


#290 Skinnyguy

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 13:51

His chances of winning another title is definitely greater partnered with Grosjean than if he partnered Alonso.


His chances are bigger alongside whoever in a car capable of WDC than alongside whoever in a midfield car.

You´re right and Lotus has a really good car now, but so does Ferrari, and -even if it´s impossible to predict- Ferrari is a much better prospect for the future. I´d move there if the chance arrived.

#291 Ural

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 14:17

1. No!
2. Lotus!
3. Loeb! :clap:

#292 2ms

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 14:50

There's no question that Ferrari is the much better organized, more WDC-capable team. Lotus may be capable of fast car, but they hardly ever put together good weekends. Always one problem or another, whereas Ferrari are consummate pros these days. However, Kimi will never be at Ferrari at the same time as LdM is. The question is when LdM is retiring.

Edited by 2ms, 05 August 2012 - 14:50.


#293 Cool Beans

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 21:51

There's no question that Ferrari is the much better organized, more WDC-capable team. Lotus may be capable of fast car, but they hardly ever put together good weekends. Always one problem or another, whereas Ferrari are consummate pros these days.

Too bloody right.
Took Red Bull a few years to get their weekend sorted out, before that they had a good car some races but always lost out to worse ones because of one thing or another. That last step from 2nd to 1st in a race is a big one and takes a well orchestrated effort from every bit of the team gelling seamlessly.

#294 Nathan

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 01:05

because now they say there is number two (and always have been) and Barrichello and Irivine have said they were number two drivers (and everyone could see that too, austria 2002 etc)

But there have been times Ferrari didn't have a clear #1.

And the management that put in place the last definitive No.2 driver (Irvine, Rubens) is no longer there.

#295 Kraze

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 03:33

But there have been times Ferrari didn't have a clear #1.

And the management that put in place the last definitive No.2 driver (Irvine, Rubens) is no longer there.


tell that to Massa, up untill Germany 2010 he thought the same :lol:

Anyways.. SD has clearly stated they're looking for a no.2 driver which should clear any doubts of what kind of policy they're following.

#296 Seanspeed

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 03:47

SD has clearly stated they're looking for a no.2 driver

No he hasn't.

#297 2ms

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 03:48

tell that to Massa, up untill Germany 2010 he thought the same :lol:

Anyways.. SD has clearly stated they're looking for a no.2 driver which should clear any doubts of what kind of policy they're following.


If SD has even said they're looking for the next Barrichello, then they're going to have a whale of a time getting anyone to take that seat. I feel like only someone like Trulli would be interested. But Ferrari are too proud to go get Trulli. Who in their right mind would take that seat? Anyone have any honest ideas on this? The young guys have too much hope in eventually becoming stars to take it. The old guys don't want to end their careers as obvious sellouts. Drivers like Kovalainen who are somewhere in between, perhaps, I don't see be interested either. I imagine it would be like taking an early retirement in many ways. But most drivers love to compete and be the best they can be.

#298 Kraze

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 04:07

No he hasn't.


kinda did when he said that Ferrari is not in the market for big names, thats why they approached Webber thinking he can fit seamlessly in a no. 2 slot.

The young guys have too much hope in eventually becoming stars to take it. The old guys don't want to end their careers as obvious sellouts. Drivers like Kovalainen who are somewhere in between, perhaps, I don't see be interested either. I imagine it would be like taking an early retirement in many ways. But most drivers love to compete and be the best they can be.



Ferrari can lure a few drivers with their salary who dont have high hopes in them or in their teams. Kovalainen can be a possibility but he's not the only one. there are some rumors regarding Perez also.

#299 prty

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 08:54

Another proof that this quote by Domenicalli didnt mean that, is that very recently Raikkonen was contracted as the superstar and Massa as the very good driver. But turned out that the superstar couldnt differenciate himself, to the point of being beaten. That eventually led to being fired but thats for another thread. There was therefore no prearranged status in Ferrari.

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#300 Jovanotti

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 08:56

The obsession of certain people about 2008 is beyond belief.

Edited by Jovanotti, 06 August 2012 - 08:56.