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Giancarlo Minardi Critical of FIA penalty for Maldonado [split]


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#1 TheWilliamzer

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 16:30

Minardi thinks the FIA is exaggerating by giving penalties for a move like Pastor's on Paul. http://www.crash.net...do_penalty.html

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#2 g1n

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 18:37

Minardi thinks the FIA is exaggerating by giving penalties for a move like Pastor's on Paul. http://www.crash.net...do_penalty.html


nah, Minardi is not looking in to the context, in which Maldonado just drives in to other people using them as brakes, this is wrong, and it is good that stewards thought the same and penalised him.

#3 superdelphinus

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 19:25

What's the deal with how the fia approach looks at penalties? Do they take into account previous misdemeanors or take each event in isolation?

#4 TheNewStig

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 19:28

Minardi is a wise man! :up:

#5 TFLB

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 19:31

Wait for all the armchair experts coming on here saying they know better than him...

#6 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 19:33

Well I think Minardi is wrong.

#7 Hippo

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 19:37

nah, Minardi is not looking in to the context, in which Maldonado just drives in to other people using them as brakes, this is wrong, and it is good that stewards thought the same and penalised him.

If they think Maldonado's maneuvers in the past deserve a penalty they should have penalized him when he pulled them off. Punishing him now because they missed the time when a penalty was appropriate is wrong.

Although I think Maldonado's move on Paul was very questionable. He simply pushed Paul off the track to make his overtake stick. That's really poor racing imho.

#8 TFLB

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 19:40

Well I think Minardi is wrong.

And you are qualified to say that because...?

#9 Markn93

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 19:47

And you are qualified to say that because...?


He has over 47,000 posts :smoking:

#10 smitten

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 19:48

Wait for all the armchair experts coming on here saying they know better than him...


Is that worse than armchair experts who agree with him? Distinct lack of former WDCs on the board....


#11 Zava

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 19:48

Minardi thinks the FIA is exaggerating by giving penalties for a move like Pastor's on Paul. http://www.crash.net...do_penalty.html

well, someone else with no bad record like Pastor's this year (pick one of Alonso, Webber, Raikkönen) wouldn't have got a penalty for that. but Pastor made his bed, with constantly crashing into other people, he 'earned' the right to be punished for every little incident.

#12 Fatgadget

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 19:51

And you are qualified to say that because...?

Well,anyone who watched the race, their opinion on the incident is equally as valid as Mr Minardis.


#13 TFLB

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 19:52

Is that worse than armchair experts who agree with him? Distinct lack of former WDCs on the board....

He has more authority to give his opinion than those angry people who come on here saying 'Maldonado should be banned for life and is clearly a lunatic and all his collisions have been 100% intentional and he tried to kill other drivers bla bla bla'.

#14 Buttoneer

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 19:53

well, someone else with no bad record like Pastor's this year (pick one of Alonso, Webber, Raikkönen) wouldn't have got a penalty for that. but Pastor made his bed, with constantly crashing into other people, he 'earned' the right to be punished for every little incident.

I think I agree with this.

We obviously don't know for sure because the regulatory landscape has changed over the season but I do think the FIA is trying to calm the guy down; teach him the limits the hard way so that he will learn to calm down. I think the stewards might have let another driver off, but I just wouldn't limit it to the select few you mention.

#15 hammibal

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 19:55

He has over 47,000 posts :smoking:

Yep beat that Mr Minardi

#16 TFLB

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 19:55

Well,anyone who watched the race, their opinion on the incident is equally as valid as Mr Minardis.

I wouldn't necessarily agree with that. Mr Minardi worked in F1 for many years and knows more about its goings on than most, whereas many people here, myself included, have nothing to do with F1 at all. I'd say that that gives his opinion greater weight. If everyone's opinion is equally valid, then why don't all the F1 broadcasters have random fans as their pundits?

#17 Leyser

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 19:55

5861979[/url]']
Wait for all the armchair experts coming on here saying they know better than him...


The only opinion that is definitely less valuable than Minardi's is yours because your logic is abysmal. You also seem biased.

Experts of all stripes widely disagree on things and all it would take to "prove you wrong" is to find someone with a more impressive resume than Minardi's who disagrees with him. That will not be hard.

Edited by Leyser, 02 August 2012 - 19:58.


#18 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 19:58

He has more authority to give his opinion than those angry people who come on here saying 'Maldonado should be banned for life and is clearly a lunatic and all his collisions have been 100% intentional and he tried to kill other drivers bla bla bla'.


Because of all of Minardi's experience as a race steward? Or as a driver? or?

Hands up anyone who has ever taken another car off the road on a race track


*raises hand*

#19 TFLB

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 19:59

The only opinion that is definitely less valuable than Minardi's is yours because your logic is abysmal.
Experts of all stripes widely disagree on things and all it would take to prove you wrong is to find someone with a more impressive resume than Minardi's who disagrees with him. That will not be hard.

I'd accept that as well. What I don't like is people who know nothing but have an axe to grind rubbishing the opinion of people who know far more than them.

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#20 Zava

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 19:59

Because of all of Minardi's experience as a race steward? Or as a driver? or?

Hands up anyone who has ever taken another car off the road on a race track


*raises hand*

*joins in*
no kidding. :p

#21 hammibal

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 20:00

Did not Maldonaldo receive a warning after his collision with Perez, bit like a yellow card i would think, typical that both Maldonado and some of his supporters would just treat this as a slap on the wrist and carry on as normal

#22 TFLB

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 20:00

Because of all of Minardi's experience as a race steward? Or as a driver? or?

Because he probably knows far more about F1 than you.

#23 smitten

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 20:01

He has more authority to give his opinion than those angry people who come on here


Nope, but more experience possibly. Sadly for Maldonado, the people with the authority (4 guys with some small experience in stewarding motor racing) judged Maldonado and found him guilty. Again. And I agree with them, for all that counts.


#24 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 20:01

We're not talking about running a team but whether an overtaking move was good or not.

#25 Buttoneer

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 20:02

Because he probably knows far more about F1 than you.

'Probably'? At least be sure before arguing so hard.

#26 jcbc3

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 20:02

+1

however, only in karting.

#27 TFLB

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 20:04

We're not talking about running a team but whether an overtaking move was good or not.

It wasn't, it was very clumsy. But it did not deserve a penalty, simply because other people have got away with the same or worse recently. If the stewards were punishing Maldonado based on his previous record, than that is wrong. They should start with a clean sheet at every race.

#28 Leyser

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 20:04

5862010[/url]']
Because he probably knows far more about F1 than you.


1) "Probably"? Well, if you don't know then you shouldn't talk.
2) One doesnt need to be an Iron Chef to determine that the milk has spoiled.

Edited by Leyser, 02 August 2012 - 20:05.


#29 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 20:04

Karting doesn't count, I usually just rammed people.

#30 TFLB

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 20:05

'Probably'? At least be sure before arguing so hard.

If all arguments were based on certainty then there'd be no point arguing.

#31 TFLB

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 20:05

Karting doesn't count, I usually just rammed people.

I was rammed many times in karting, it was really very annoying.

#32 jcbc3

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 20:06

.... But it did not deserve a penalty, simply because other people have got away with the same or worse recently...

.


LOL - I tried that defense in the school yard once. Didn't get me of the hook either.

#33 Collective

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 20:06

They just can't say that overshooting turns and then using the other car as a brakes substitute is acceptable overtaking (or defending in the case vs Perez).

#34 jcbc3

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 20:07

I was rammed many times in karting, it was really very annoying.


If you went faster they couldn't ram you ;-)

#35 TFLB

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 20:07

1) "Probably"? Well, if you don't know then you shouldn't talk.
2) One doesnt need to be an Iron Chef to determine that the milk has spoiled.

You've probably said things you're not sure of in the past. Also, this is not so clear as spoiled milk.

#36 TFLB

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 20:09

If you went faster they couldn't ram you ;-)

Actually it used to happen if I was overtaking them. They'd wait until I was alongside then steer into the corner well before they needed to. Think Maldonado hitting Perez at Monaco, that kind of thing.

#37 smitten

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 20:09

Also, this is not so clear as spoiled milk.


To anybody except the last standing Maldonado apologist (not looking at anyone in particular :lol: ) it is that clear.


#38 smitten

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 20:10

They'd wait until I was alongside then steer into the corner well before they needed to. Think Maldonado hitting Perez at Monaco, that kind of thing.


Presumably you attributed that to clumsiness not malice?


#39 Henrik B

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 20:10

I wouldn't necessarily agree with that. Mr Minardi worked in F1 for many years and knows more about its goings on than most, whereas many people here, myself included, have nothing to do with F1 at all. I'd say that that gives his opinion greater weight. If everyone's opinion is equally valid, then why don't all the F1 broadcasters have random fans as their pundits?


So the former DRIVER advising the stewards should better listen to Minardi, an ex-team owner? In the hierarchy of F1 experts, I think Mr. Minardi ranks pretty low, certainly lower than any F1 driver and perhaps just a smidgen over the average fan - specifically on team owner business, not driving standards...

Minardis opinion carries no weight at all. It's comparable to asking Briatore about how to design a car.

The penalty itself wasn't even that harsh. I'm betting even Button would've copped that one. He went in too hard, bumped him off the circuit and completed the pass. This is not dodgems.

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#40 TFLB

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 20:10

.


LOL - I tried that defense in the school yard once. Didn't get me of the hook either.

I always maintain that that is the right stance to take. I don't like unfairness, so if someone gets away with something and another doesn't then they should either punish both or none at all.

#41 TFLB

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 20:12

So the former DRIVER advising the stewards should better listen to Minardi, an ex-team owner? In the hierarchy of F1 experts, I think Mr. Minardi ranks pretty low, certainly lower than any F1 driver and perhaps just a smidgen over the average fan - specifically on team owner business, not driving standards...

Minardis opinion carries no weight at all. It's comparable to asking Briatore about how to design a car.

The penalty itself wasn't even that harsh. I'm betting even Button would've copped that one. He went in too hard, bumped him off the circuit and completed the pass. This is not dodgems.

I never said Minardi knew better than the stewards. I said he knows better than the common or garden F1 fan.

#42 TFLB

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 20:13

Presumably you attributed that to clumsiness not malice?

No, malice. I don't deny Maldonado's intentional incidents. I am not blind or stupid. Contrary to popular belief it seems.

Edited by TFLB, 02 August 2012 - 20:14.


#43 Henrik B

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 20:15

I never said Minardi knew better than the stewards. I said he knows better than the common or garden F1 fan.


The stewards and the fans agree on this one. That leaves Mr. Minardi as the odd one out...

#44 Diablobb81

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 20:17

If Pastor continues to drive like that he will continue to receive penalties like this one.

#45 TFLB

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 20:17

The stewards and the fans agree on this one. That leaves Mr. Minardi as the odd one out...

Do the fans agree though? The vocal english-speaking minority seem to, how about the silent masses all over the world?

#46 Buttoneer

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 20:21

Do the fans agree though? The vocal english-speaking minority seem to, how about the silent masses all over the world?

They probably don't exist.

#47 handel

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 20:21

To be honest the penalty was bob-on. Williams should have 100% twigged that the way he overtook was out of order. If he had given the place right back I would have been v surprised if they had penalised him...

#48 Leyser

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 20:22

5862028[/url]']
You've probably said things you're not sure of in the past. Also, this is not so clear as spoiled milk.


You assume incorrectly. I never wrote off people as nobodies without knowing who they actually were. One would think that would be imperative to your perception of an opinion given the importance you ascribe to the identity of the speaker. :kiss:

Edited by Leyser, 02 August 2012 - 20:23.


#49 TFLB

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 20:23

They probably don't exist.

So all F1 fans use internet forums do they?

#50 Juan Kerr

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 20:24

Do the fans agree though? The vocal english-speaking minority seem to, how about the silent masses all over the world?

Yeah they do too.