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Current drivers: weaknesses


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#1 sofarapartguy

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 09:46

Ok, well we all know abilities and strength of any current driver on the grid, regardless of our sympathy and antipathy. But I think that would be much interesting to find out the most complete driver on the grid by looking on their weakness, not their strong sides. So, here we go.

Want to admit, that I'm just sharing my opinion on the drivers, not picking up who is best/worst. It's up to you to pick the best after reading current list.

By current standings:

Alonso
Fernando is the toughest compatitor by a long margin today, that is a common knowledge. He is in his prime and much better than in his WDC 05-06 years. But the other side of his strong personality - demand of total leadership within the team, which can lead to a difficulties. He is a natural leader who is not going put up with any kind of a competition on/off the track. As it was said many times before, the only time Alonso faced a really strong parter brave enough to challenge him - Fernando has become too irritated and distracted and turned racind into one long personal revenge.

Webber
Mark by my opinion, despite beign a good racer and a mature person, lacks a bit in every aspect as a racing driver. If you take all the veirtual parameters that are important in F1 today, he will not be the best out there in any of them. Lacks raw pace (has been pretty good at the times, but there are quicker guys today), lacks consistency (you never know how he will perform next weekend), pretty good in racecraft but not perfect, and often struggles to provide clean and effective overtaking/defensive moves.

Vettel
Really hard to say, as RBR is a really hell of the car for a third year in a row. Something tells me that Seb irritates too easy and too much when things don't go his way. Still there are some questions about his abilities to provide strong and clean fight with equal compatitors when machinery provides zero advantage. Bloody fast over a single lap and was really a class of his own lst year, but 2012 season brought back old doubts.

Lewis
Unfortunately I consider Lewis as one of the weakest drivers mentally. Any sort of the off track life can distrakt him to a level of a fast but average driver. His strongest year was his debute when he provided a pure miracle on track - the only time when nobody had any kind of expectations from Lewis so Hamilton was totally free from pressure. Pure and absolute talent, blinding speed, but it is too easy to influence on his form.

Kimi
Well Kimi is a kind of driver you'd love to have if it was just about pure racing without all this show stuff. He is only interested in races, hates politics and can provide you these extra-tenth needed for a front row. But years in Ferrari have brought one uncomfortable question - how often is Kimi trully motivated and up to speed. His passion about racing as well as desire to fight only for victories for can be both an advantage and disadvantage - bar his debute season the only time he barely could fight at the front was 2009, which considered by many as his worst year.

Rosberg
I believe that Crofty during Hungary weekend said purely right thing about Nico - if the car is good enough for 7th place he will bring you the 7th place. Nico seems to be not that cute on the track, which is good for him, he is consistent, fast, clean, but you rarely see him doing any sort of miracles. Achieved a Vettel-esque win in China, but something tells that Mercedes was just awesome that day.

Button
Well, being a Jenson fan even I have to admit, that this balance ™ thing has become more annoying than ever. Although this excuse was forced by forums, JB indeed uses it too often. Still a member of the elite "intelligent driver" club. Wich is forced by forums as well.

Grosjean
With Romain you have an easy bet - if he makes it through the first lap he will get a pretty outstaning result. The trouble is that not colliding with anybody or anything is a real difficulty for a frenchman. Despite a noticeable lack of racecraft RG has got an important quality for an F1 - blinding speed.

This was a top-8 drivers, so I think other drivers don't need that accurate analysis, will make it brief.

Perez. A case of a driver who just needs more expirience, which will save him from the lack of consistency.
Kamui. Same as above.
Pastor. Bloody quick. End of. A little less attractive version of JPM - f***ing Montoya at least was fun to watch and listen, especially on the f***ing radio.
Michael. Difficult to say what has changed in Schumacher. He's become much more likeble but it seems he lacks the confidence of the past days, something that Alonso has gained with age. Michael tries to prove his comeback was worth it, but sometimes it looks like does not believe in it himself.
di Resta . No miracles, no disasters. A difficult driver to evaluate because of the constant enormous hype in the british press.
Massa. Lets leave a poor Felipe alone, ok?
Senna. Lacks speed.
Hulk. Not that spectacular.
JEV and DR. Really difficult to judge as the guys seem to be a kind of a cars' hostages. JEV is plain slow in qualy, DR has failed to perform when he could and sould to (Bahrain). Too young, too green.
Kova. Something tells me Heikki will crack under the pressure again if he gest a top-ride. Sadly.
Petrov. Vitaly started really late in open-wheelers, thus the lack of pace. Don't think he will ever gain some extra-speed with the expirience.

The rest 4 driver hard to call as their cars are a bigger question.

Well that's all. Enjoy, will be glad to hear your opinions. Try not to be that harsh as it is my first ever aanalysis here. Thank you.

Edited by sofarapartguy, 03 August 2012 - 11:59.


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#2 Sakae

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 10:39

I am concerned that I would get sued by Hamilton's farther, should I write what I REALLY think about his son.

#3 Markn93

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 10:47

I am concerned that I would get sued by Hamilton's farther, should I write what I REALLY think about his son.


What, get sued for being wrong?

#4 sofarapartguy

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 10:51

I am concerned that I would get sued by Hamilton's farther, should I write what I REALLY think about his son.

You can write me in PM I'll add it to the list - I have no concerns about being sued :)

#5 learningtobelost

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 11:06

I am concerned that I would get sued by Hamilton's farther, should I write what I REALLY think about his son.


Implying that you've been going easy on him all these years? :rotfl:

#6 Coops3

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 11:12

What, get sued for being wrong?


:lol:

#7 pUs

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 11:27

Kimi
...apart from his debute season the only time he barely could fight at the front was 2009, which considered by many as his worst year.


Sorry, don't get this. 2009 was a great season for Kimi in my opinion (especially the 2nd half of it, considering his machinery) but surely he did fight at the front before that? :confused:

#8 sofarapartguy

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 11:39

Sorry, don't get this. 2009 was a great season for Kimi in my opinion (especially the 2nd half of it, considering his machinery) but surely he did fight at the front before that? :confused:

His performance was good, considering the car, but it was pain to hear and read his comments - he was totally uninterested as it seemed that time. Brilliant drive in Spa an some flashes only after Massa@Hungary incident. It was clear he is sick of PR/Ferrari family stuff and didn't even try to stay in F1.

Edited by sofarapartguy, 03 August 2012 - 11:43.


#9 flyer121

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 11:46

Alonso - Raw Speed
Kimi - Motivation
Lewis - Mental Toughness
Vettel - Finger
Webber - Bogey tracks
Button - Balance


thats about it ...


#10 scandyman

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 11:46

His performance was good, considering the car, but it was pain to hear and read his comments - he was totally uninterested as it seemed that time. Brilliant drive in Spa an some flashes only after Massa@Hungary incident. It was clear he is sick of PR/Ferrari family stuff and didn't even try to stay in F1.

Maybe he meant 2008 season.

#11 rossbrawn

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 11:49

What, get sued for being wrong?


What if he were to say: Hamilton's the greatest driver to grace Formula1 of his generation. In your eyes, would that be considered "wrong"?

By your logic, I guess you would. And I agree :D.

:cool: :wave:

Edited by rossbrawn, 03 August 2012 - 11:50.


#12 Cool Beans

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 11:51

Sorry, don't get this. 2009 was a great season for Kimi in my opinion (especially the 2nd half of it, considering his machinery) but surely he did fight at the front before that? :confused:

I think he just worded that poorly. What I think he was trying to say is that 2009 was the only season bar his debut where he didn't fight at the front. I hope. Otherwise my mind = blown :D

#13 sofarapartguy

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 11:55

I think he just worded that poorly. What I think he was trying to say is that 2009 was the only season bar his debut where he didn't fight at the front. I hope. Otherwise my mind = blown :D

Yes, my initial thought. Sorry, bad english.

Edited by sofarapartguy, 03 August 2012 - 11:55.


#14 TomNokoe

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 12:00

with Lewis, last year he had close friends pass away, a public breakup with his girlfriend, a crash with his teammate and a team error at his two favorite tracks and on top of it all the mclaren was nowhere near red bull, I think many drivers would also struggle in this situation. this year he has shown more mental toughness than any driver. did anyone see vettel after breaking down in Valencia?? Hamilton has had tons of points chucked away through no fault of his own and has kept calm throughout, even though he has had a few more personal problems with Nicole and Contract negotiations hanging over him, he has drove brilliantly, and has been driving clever also, I.e slowing down in 2nd sector in hungary as he knew it was impossible for kimi to get past. etc. so I think he is becoming very good at this side of his game

#15 Cool Beans

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 12:04

Alonso - Raw Speed

Kimi - Motivation

Lewis - Mental Toughness
Vettel - Finger
Webber - Bogey tracks
Button - Balance

Posted Image


Edited by beancounter, 03 August 2012 - 12:05.


#16 sofarapartguy

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 12:07


Yes, I hate this motivation thing as well but I struggle to find any other explanation. I struggle to understand why a driver, a WDC in his 30 was not willing to stay in F1.

Edited by sofarapartguy, 03 August 2012 - 12:08.


#17 2ms

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 12:10

I personally think that it isn't clear at all right now that there are any particularly great drivers in F1. I tend to think that Kimi has the potential to be an all-time great. But I also think we may never know due to the Mercedes V10 engine reliability, relationship with LdM at Ferrari, and now being in team with big strategy and organization problems.

The reason I don't rate Hamilton or Alonso as high as many here do is that I don't see a whole lot more than circular reasoning behind people's arguments for their greatness. Hamilton is great because he beat Alonso, and Alonso is great when he beats Hamilton, but both have been being beaten by Vettel, Kimi, and Button. I don't think all that terribly much of Alonso's 2 WDCs because it was patently obvious he had superior machinery those years. If Alonso wins a couple more with less obviously superior machinery then that would of course change things. But now it's been 10 years and he hasn't. If Alonso did this then it would also probably improve my opinion of Hamilton due to 2007. Likewise, I might start thinking Vettel could be great if he could do this as well.

But, In short, I'm not particularly impressed with any drivers in F1 these days. Sure, many of them are excellent. But the top ones have major shortcomings that really tarnish my opinion of them. See Alonso and Hamiltons' emotional difficulties and many poor seasons See Vettel's rather blah season this year. Who knows with Kimi.

#18 TheWilliamzer

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 12:15

Massa: Lack of south American hormones.

#19 Sakae

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 12:23

I personally think that it isn't clear at all right now that there are any particularly great drivers in F1. I tend to think that Kimi has the potential to be an all-time great. But I also think we may never know due to the Mercedes V10 engine reliability, relationship with LdM at Ferrari, and now being in team with big strategy and organization problems.

The reason I don't rate Hamilton or Alonso as high as many here do is that I don't see a whole lot more than circular reasoning behind people's arguments for their greatness. Hamilton is great because he beat Alonso, and Alonso is great when he beats Hamilton, but both have been being beaten by Vettel, Kimi, and Button. I don't think all that terribly much of Alonso's 2 WDCs because it was patently obvious he had superior machinery those years. If Alonso wins a couple more with less obviously superior machinery then that would of course change things. But now it's been 10 years and he hasn't. If Alonso did this then it would also probably improve my opinion of Hamilton due to 2007. Likewise, I might start thinking Vettel could be great if he could do this as well.

But, In short, I'm not particularly impressed with any drivers in F1 these days. Sure, many of them are excellent. But the top ones have major shortcomings that really tarnish my opinion of them. See Alonso and Hamiltons' emotional difficulties and many poor seasons See Vettel's rather blah season this year. Who knows with Kimi.

Interesting.

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#20 Kvothe

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 12:26

Alonso: can't deal with a competitive team mate

Webber: Not consistently fast over all circuits

Vettel, Not being in the lead/competitive team mate

Hamilton: Doesn't play the long game

Raikkonen: adaptability, needs the right car/steering

Rosberg: Doesn't excel in any area, seems to be lacking just a little bit in every department.

Button: can't adapt to an unbalanced car and poor over a single lap

Grosjean: lacks consistent race pace, and has too many first lap incidents

Perez: wheel to wheel racing, and consistency.

Kobayashi: Japanese: doesn't get the credit and attention he deserves, consistency

Maldonado: Brain fades in wheel to wheel situations

Michael Schumacher: His age, which has led to a general decline of his ability

Di Resta: Doesn't stand out in any area.

Massa: Mental fortitude, wet conditions

Senna: one lap pace

Hulkenberg: Consistency (although he is getting better)

Vergne: one lap pace

Ricciardo consistency with race pace

It's hard to judge the drivers in the second tier cars.

Edited by Kvothe, 03 August 2012 - 12:28.


#21 alframsey

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 12:27

Alonso - Raw Speed
Kimi - Motivation
Lewis - Mental Toughness
Vettel - Finger
Webber - Bogey tracks
Button - Balance


thats about it ...

Summed it up perfectly.

#22 superdelphinus

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 12:30

Alonso - ummm... I suppose the question of whether he can deal with a competitive teammate remains unanswered

Hamilton - his inability to think at a strategic/ big picture level sometimes - beyond the race he is currently in

Button - outright pace

Vettel - still not convinced he can drive out results without the best car

Webber - consistency and the ability to do well at all circuits. He seems slightly unstable in terms of maintaining consistent morale as well

Massa - harsh really but he has problems in pretty much all areas these days

Di resta - solid capable driver but a bit like button in that he doesn't seem to be able to find stunning pace when it's needed

Kimi - attitude

Grosjean - racecraft, consistency

Can't be arsed with the rest at this point

#23 sofarapartguy

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 12:32

Pretty agree :up:

#24 Cool Beans

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 12:38

Alonso: can't deal with a competitive team mate

Webber: Not consistently fast over all circuits

Vettel, Not being in the lead/competitive team mate

Hamilton: Doesn't play the long game

Raikkonen: adaptability, needs the right car/steering

Rosberg: Doesn't excel in any area, seems to be lacking just a little bit in every department.

Button: can't adapt to an unbalanced car and poor over a single lap

Grosjean: lacks consistent race pace, and has too many first lap incidents

Perez: wheel to wheel racing, and consistency.

Kobayashi: Japanese: doesn't get the credit and attention he deserves, consistency

Maldonado: Brain fades in wheel to wheel situations

Michael Schumacher: His age, which has led to a general decline of his ability

Di Resta: Doesn't stand out in any area.

Massa: Mental fortitude, wet conditions

Senna: one lap pace

Hulkenberg: Consistency (although he is getting better)

Vergne: one lap pace

Ricciardo consistency with race pace

It's hard to judge the drivers in the second tier cars.


Pretty much nailed it :up:

#25 rossbrawn

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 12:39

Massa: Lack of south American hormones.


Isn't his entire country against him? :|

#26 TheWilliamzer

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 12:44

Isn't his entire country against him? :|

I don't know about that! but if we look at South American / Latin drivers like Checo, Pastor, JPM.. they all have that extra "crazyness" and extra "balls" to go a bit further. Felipe Beby is the odd one here! :(

#27 velgajski1

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 12:53

I don't know about that! but if we look at South American / Latin drivers like Checo, Pastor, JPM.. they all have that extra "crazyness" and extra "balls" to go a bit further. Felipe Beby is the odd one here! :(


Felipe is one of the drivers with most crashes and most aggressive towards other drivers, not sure that he lacks 'Latin genes'. He also goes off track often showing that he is driving on limit.

Edited by velgajski1, 03 August 2012 - 12:54.


#28 artista

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 12:55

Yes, I hate this motivation thing as well but I struggle to find any other explanation. I struggle to understand why a driver, a WDC in his 30 was not willing to stay in F1.

Well, it's true he didn't stay in F1, but he kept on racing in another top-level motorsport so he, basically, kept doing the same thing but with a different type of car. Not everybody in motorsport thinks F1 is the only place to be, and he's Finnish. If the problem was motivation, he could have stayed at home looking the grass grow.
As people always say, a driver with motivation problems doesn't get fuel in the eyes, gets barbequed and keeps on driving to finish the race (Brazil 2009)

Anyway, it's easy to come to the "lack of motivation" conclusion when you are used to hear a lot of people in the F1 world hitting themselves in the breast and saying how good they are, how much they work and how they took things out of the car that nobody else would have. It's a bit like in real-life, at work, there are always people who work a lot and don't say a word and people who tell everybody they work a lot and it's easy to end up thinking that the one who's not talking is not working.

Maybe, more than motivation, his weakness could be that he doesn't sell (or knows how to sell) what he does?


#29 speng

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 13:01

with Lewis, last year he had close friends pass away, a public breakup with his girlfriend, a crash with his teammate and a team error at his two favorite tracks and on top of it all the mclaren was nowhere near red bull, I think many drivers would also struggle in this situation. this year he has shown more mental toughness than any driver. did anyone see vettel after breaking down in Valencia?? Hamilton has had tons of points chucked away through no fault of his own and has kept calm throughout, even though he has had a few more personal problems with Nicole and Contract negotiations hanging over him, he has drove brilliantly, and has been driving clever also, I.e slowing down in 2nd sector in hungary as he knew it was impossible for kimi to get past. etc. so I think he is becoming very good at this side of his game

Last year it was he could not manage the tires effectively.
This year it is he is not mentally tough, again he will prove this to be incorrect as well. No worries.

Edited by speng, 03 August 2012 - 15:19.


#30 flyer121

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 13:20

Well, it's true he didn't stay in F1, but he kept on racing in another top-level motorsport so he, basically, kept doing the same thing but with a different type of car. Not everybody in motorsport thinks F1 is the only place to be, and he's Finnish. If the problem was motivation, he could have stayed at home looking the grass grow.
As people always say, a driver with motivation problems doesn't get fuel in the eyes, gets barbequed and keeps on driving to finish the race (Brazil 2009)

Anyway, it's easy to come to the "lack of motivation" conclusion when you are used to hear a lot of people in the F1 world hitting themselves in the breast and saying how good they are, how much they work and how they took things out of the car that nobody else would have. It's a bit like in real-life, at work, there are always people who work a lot and don't say a word and people who tell everybody they work a lot and it's easy to end up thinking that the one who's not talking is not working.

Maybe, more than motivation, his weakness could be that he doesn't sell (or knows how to sell) what he does?


I see no other reason for the dip in performance in 2008 than the fact that there was nothing to play for - so why bother?

Cant win races because Massa has to take the title and he s already out of titles due to early season shambles - so feck it . I dont have a big problem understanding his mindset. Why do his other fans .... has always been a mystery.

Edited by flyer121, 03 August 2012 - 15:52.


#31 Baddoer

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 13:25

Alonso - too evil
Hamilton - too dumb
Webber - too tall
Vettel - too infantile
Raikkonen - too cold
Grosjean - too gay


#32 artista

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 13:45

I see no other reason for the dip in performance in 2008 than the fact that there was nothing to play for - so why bother?

Cant win races because Massa has to take the title and he s already out of titles due to early season shambles - so feck it . I dont have a big problem understanding his mindset. Why do his other fans has always been a mystery.

If you don't mind, I prefer not to decide what's really going on in somebody's mind. I have enough problems agreeing with myself what's going on inside mine. :p


#33 rossbrawn

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 13:50

I dont have a big problem understanding his mindset. Why do his other fans has always been a mystery.


Nice one :up: .

#34 wattoroos

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 14:14

Alonso - too evil
Hamilton - too dumb
Webber - too tall
Vettel - too infantile
Raikkonen - too cold
Grosjean - too gay

:rotfl: he just got married you know. Too prone to mistakes if anything

#35 Jacobss

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 14:44

This whole thread is a mistake. There are so many factors in F1, which decide the success of the drivers, but armchair-forum psychologists always know better. Driver X is lazy, driver Y can't work with a competetive teammate, driver Z can't play a long game etc. It's all bullshit. No one from us have ever worked with them. Not everything you see on the outside is the truth.

Anyway, it's easy to come to the "lack of motivation" conclusion when you are used to hear a lot of people in the F1 world hitting themselves in the breast and saying how good they are, how much they work and how they took things out of the car that nobody else would have. It's a bit like in real-life, at work, there are always people who work a lot and don't say a word and people who tell everybody they work a lot and it's easy to end up thinking that the one who's not talking is not working.

Maybe, more than motivation, his weakness could be that he doesn't sell (or knows how to sell) what he does?

This.



#36 flyer121

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 14:50

If you don't mind, I prefer not to decide what's really going on in somebody's mind. I have enough problems agreeing with myself what's going on inside mine. :p


Well then the only other option is to believe that Massa is fundamentally faster than Kimi.
Which is something I have trouble imagining Massa to be .... not just against Kimi but against 80% of the grid.

#37 halifaxf1fan

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 15:33

Alonso - Insecurity
Hamilton/Massa - Mentally soft, immaturity
Webber - Self doubt
Vettel - Overconfidence
Raikkonen - Apolitical
Button - Adaptability
Grosjean - Lack of concentration
Schumacher - Lack of focus
Rosberg - Lack of aggression

Edited by halifaxf1fan, 03 August 2012 - 15:34.


#38 Sakae

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 15:42

with Lewis, last year he had close friends pass away, a public breakup with his girlfriend, a crash with his teammate and a team error at his two favorite tracks and on top of it all the mclaren was nowhere near red bull, I think many drivers would also struggle in this situation. this year he has shown more mental toughness than any driver. did anyone see vettel after breaking down in Valencia?? Hamilton has had tons of points chucked away through no fault of his own and has kept calm throughout, even though he has had a few more personal problems with Nicole and Contract negotiations hanging over him, he has drove brilliantly, and has been driving clever also, I.e slowing down in 2nd sector in hungary as he knew it was impossible for kimi to get past. etc. so I think he is becoming very good at this side of his game

Any other excuses on Hamilton's behalf? Accidentaly I run into a poll on leadership in british print, where he was rated with highest score among all drivers. What occured to me in that moment that he has probably many underage fans to score that high.

#39 MrPodium

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 15:44

Alonso - Insecurity
Hamilton/Massa - Mentally soft, immaturity
Webber - Self doubt
Vettel - Overconfidence
Raikkonen - Apolitical
Button - Adaptability
Grosjean - Lack of concentration
Schumacher - Lack of focus
Rosberg - Lack of aggression


Pretty much agree with you there. However, I'd add petulance plus insecurity to Vettel, change Raikkonen to apathy / igorance, and Button to a myopic view of seeing no further than beating his teammate.

I guess pretty much not the same then after all, but the rest are spot on.

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#40 velgajski1

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 15:52

Basically I'd agree with everything OP wrote with a few additions:

Alonso - Doesn't seem to be best over a single lap.
Webber - Inconsistency is his biggest weakness of all, imo.
Vettel - Hasn't shown a real weakness so far in my opinion
Hamilton - I'd replace mental weakness with risk managament.
Kimi - Not sure if motivation, car development or any other things mentioned here are his weakness. His weakness in my opinion, and I'm (probably) gonna get attacked heavily for this by Kimi fans - is that he is a bit like your assesment of Webber. Lacking a bit in every segment, not the fastest, or most reliable driver out there, but overall very good in all categories.
Button - Agreed completely, he can be brilliant when all fits together, but can look really horrible when it doesn't.

#41 flyer121

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 15:53

I don't know about that! but if we look at South American / Latin drivers like Checo, Pastor, JPM.. they all have that extra "crazyness" and extra "balls" to go a bit further. Felipe Beby is the odd one here! :(


He moulded himself on Rubinho ... :lol:

#42 Zava

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 16:02

Basically I'd agree with everything OP wrote with a few additions:

Alonso - Doesn't seem to be best over a single lap.
Webber - Inconsistency is his biggest weakness of all, imo.
Vettel - Hasn't shown a real weakness so far in my opinion
Hamilton - I'd replace mental weakness with risk managament.
Kimi - Not sure if motivation, car development or any other things mentioned here are his weakness. His weakness in my opinion, and I'm (probably) gonna get attacked heavily for this by Kimi fans - is that he is a bit like your assesment of Webber. Lacking a bit in every segment, not the fastest, or most reliable driver out there, but overall very good in all categories.
Button - Agreed completely, he can be brilliant when all fits together, but can look really horrible when it doesn't.

that's not a bad thing to say, even if I/we don't agree - Alonso said that about himself, hardly as an attempt to diminish himself, right?  ;)

#43 Marbles

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 18:44

Rosberg seems to have a weakness regarding his ability to make anyone's abridged lists. Poor lil' guy, he just doesn't seem to be on anyone's radar.

#44 MP422

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 19:04

Alonso: can't deal with a competitive team mate

Webber: Not consistently fast over all circuits

Vettel, Not being in the lead/competitive team mate

Hamilton: Doesn't play the long game

Raikkonen: adaptability, needs the right car/steering

Rosberg: Doesn't excel in any area, seems to be lacking just a little bit in every department.

Button: can't adapt to an unbalanced car and poor over a single lap

Grosjean: lacks consistent race pace, and has too many first lap incidents

Perez: wheel to wheel racing, and consistency.

Kobayashi: Japanese: doesn't get the credit and attention he deserves, consistency

Maldonado: Brain fades in wheel to wheel situations

Michael Schumacher: His age, which has led to a general decline of his ability

Di Resta: Doesn't stand out in any area.

Massa: Mental fortitude, wet conditions

Senna: one lap pace

Hulkenberg: Consistency (although he is getting better)

Vergne: one lap pace

Ricciardo consistency with race pace

It's hard to judge the drivers in the second tier cars.



Ding ding Winner !


#45 sopa

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 19:20

Alonso - err, tough one. Pre-2010 I thought qualifying speed, now I say MAYBE only a team with a non-suitable athmosphere;
Hamilton - consistency at the end of seasons;
Raikkonen - qualifying speed, tyre-heating;
Button - as above;
Vettel - slightly struggling in a bad/non-perfect car (and regarding STR, he improved massively during 2008 once the car came good!);
Webber - consistency across different circuits (great at, say, Nurburgring and Silverstone, but many others???)
Perez & Kobayashi - can't help but feel it's qualifying for both of them;
Glock - qualifying (at least based on Toyota days);
Di Resta - despite consistency inability to truly shine, sort of like Heidfeld;
Rosberg - needs a perfect car;
Schumacher v2 - doesn't have the stamina to put together a consistently great season.

#46 rossbrawn

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 19:33

Schumacher v2 - doesn't have the stamina to put together a consistently great season.


Stamina :cat: ? Not quite sure where you go that one from, would love to hear the reasoning for that choice though.


#47 sopa

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 19:34

Kimi - attitude


Many people mention it, but due to his introvert personality it can't be judged this way, because we can't see if this attitude influences his actions on the racetrack anyhow.

However, there is one driver, whose biggest weakness is definetely attitude. Maldonado

#48 jeze

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 19:35

Alonso - Raw Speed
Kimi - Motivation
Lewis - Mental Toughness
Vettel - Finger
Webber - Bogey tracks
Button - Balance


thats about it ...


Vettel - Racecraft

I think that's more fair. Kimi also lacks raw speed. Alonso? Weakness? Have you seen any? Wow. Personally I believe Massa is a really good qualifier to be honest so I'm not too surprised he is only a couple of tenths away sometimes. Remember how Massa beat Kimi and Michael lots of times in qualifying compared to expectations? But yeah I'm sure Alonso lacks the final tenth that maybe Hamilton has.

#49 sopa

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 19:40

Stamina :cat: ? Not quite sure where you go that one from, would love to hear the reasoning for that choice though.


Reasoning is related to general theory of sportsmen losing some of their performance as they age. As we see, sometimes Schumacher is still great, but only sometimes. This means he still has the skills, but doesn't have the power to execute them that efficiently any more. I have noticed older sportsmen find it especially difficult to be metronomically consistent at the highest level, so they start choosing events and can be on top of their game only sometimes. Hence I used the word 'stamina' across a whole season. Maybe something else/some other word can be used.

#50 rossbrawn

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 19:43

Remember how Massa beat Kimi and Michael lots of times in qualifying compared to expectations? But yeah I'm sure Alonso lacks the final tenth that maybe Hamilton has.


Does this Massa vs Alonso thing need to be posted in every single thread?

He beat Michael, "lots of times". When? Where's your evidence for that? There's no point making a claim with no figures.

Bahrain- Schumacher
Malaysia - Schumacher
Australia - Schumacher
San Marino - Schumacher
Europe - Schumacher
Spain - Schumacher
Monaco - Schumacher (he was evidently quicker before he was relegated to the back - Massa didn't set a time I believe)
Britain - Schumacher
Canada - Schumacher
USA - Schumacher
France - Schumacher
Germany - Schumacher
Hungary - Massa
Turkey - Massa
Italy - Schumacher
China - Schumacher
Japan - Massa
Brazil - Massa (IIRC Schumacher had a fuel-pump failure during qualifying)

So overall, Massa qualified infront 4 times vs. 14

"Lots of times"? :drunk: