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Current drivers: weaknesses


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#101 discover23

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Posted 04 August 2012 - 12:54

Alinso: none ( sorry but I can't think of anything today which is impacting his performance)
Lewis: IQ
Vettel: adaptability and he is boring
Webber: lacks consistent pace and his starts
Button: adaptability.
Kimi: adaptability.
Schumi: goes over the limit too often
Massa : psychologically weak.
Rosberg: boring
Perez: needs experience
Kobayashi: lacks consistent pace
Maldo: IQ, too agressive


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#102 RealRacing

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Posted 04 August 2012 - 13:13

Alonso- whining, "king of the world"
Massa- driving
Hamilton- earrings, Nicole
Button- slow
Vettel- finger, screams
Webber -not fast
Kimi -ice cream, vodka
Grosjean -who?

#103 maverick69

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Posted 04 August 2012 - 13:54

Vettel, my hero.

Finger: well, most of us have one, but use it differently, as not all of us stand on podium as often as he does
Interviews: could keep it shorter
Strength: many, but not here, and not now


Probably the finest example of fanboyism I have ever read on a forum.

The thing is, judging by your posting history, is that you are actually serious..........

#104 maverick69

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Posted 04 August 2012 - 14:09

Alonso: Gets very rattled when his teammate is close to and/or outperforms him. Prone to paranoia. All combined - it effectively lost him a WDC.
Lewis: Can be subject to "Sprint Race" mentality. Somewhat immature - which reflects in his 2011 "distractions". Can be quite aloof - potentially alienating his team at times.
Vettel: Can get very, very petulant when things aren't going his way. When shit happens - best keep your head down and get on with it. Reportedly two faced.
Webber: Very hit and miss.
Button: Probably the fastest driver out there over a race distance with a "perfect car"..... which doesn't happen very often...... which means that he often looks pretty ordinary....... Which also means that he can suck at qualy.......
Kimi: A bit one dimensional....... Lacks intensity.
Schumi: Past it physically and mentally in comparison to the current crop.
Massa : A bit lacking in all departments TBH.
Rosberg: See Massa
Maldonado: A "Grade A" nutter. Looks like he's constantly on the old Venezuelan marching powder.

Edited by maverick69, 04 August 2012 - 14:37.


#105 sofarapartguy

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Posted 04 August 2012 - 15:07

Alonso: Gets very rattled when his teammate is close to and/or outperforms him. Prone to paranoia. All combined - it effectively lost him a WDC.
Lewis: Can be subject to "Sprint Race" mentality. Somewhat immature - which reflects in his 2011 "distractions". Can be quite aloof - potentially alienating his team at times.
Vettel: Can get very, very petulant when things aren't going his way. When shit happens - best keep your head down and get on with it. Reportedly two faced.
Webber: Very hit and miss.
Button: Probably the fastest driver out there over a race distance with a "perfect car"..... which doesn't happen very often...... which means that he often looks pretty ordinary....... Which also means that he can suck at qualy.......
Kimi: A bit one dimensional....... Lacks intensity.
Schumi: Past it physically and mentally in comparison to the current crop.
Massa : A bit lacking in all departments TBH.
Rosberg: See Massa
Maldonado: A "Grade A" nutter. Looks like he's constantly on the old Venezuelan marching powder.

Didn't expect you to be that objective on Ham :up:

#106 maverick69

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Posted 04 August 2012 - 15:28

Didn't expect you to be that objective on Ham :up:


I a big fan - and I tend to defend him against some of the unwarranted bullshit that gets thrown at him...... But I also have eyes and ears! Last year he got a lot of stick off of me for example.

#107 Obi Offiah

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Posted 04 August 2012 - 15:33

Vettel: Can get very, very petulant when things aren't going his way. When shit happens - best keep your head down and get on with it. Reportedly two faced.

Hmmm.........Care to expand?

#108 TFLB

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Posted 04 August 2012 - 15:51

Hmmm.........Care to expand?

I'm not sure this is exactly what he meant, but many people in F1 have reported that Vettel's normally happy and friendly demeanour when dealing with the media is certainly not replicated behind closed doors.

#109 Sakae

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Posted 04 August 2012 - 16:28

Probably the finest example of fanboyism I have ever read on a forum.

The thing is, judging by your posting history, is that you are actually serious..........

I take it as a compliment, although I must admit that I have no idea what do you expect me to say? I am not aware of any incidents of a serious nature which should call for total denunciation of a man, and contrary to others; frankly, I have no clue how is Vettel behaving behind closed door and out of cameras reach. Before I pick my hat and go, perhaps I should also share with you that from my observation of Webber he is much more for than just "hit and miss" you are trying to make of it. I would not be surprised to see him in Australian politics after he leaves F1, or alternatively playing games somewhere.

#110 Cavani

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Posted 04 August 2012 - 16:40

Grosjean -who?


3 podiums , beating ur world champion in some races in his rookie year

#111 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 04 August 2012 - 17:39

(...)
Alonso: willingness to resort to forbidden behavior in pursuit of the F1 crown.
(...)


Yeah, Alonso is the only driver with this weakness. I wonder why RBR haven't booted Vettel, internally known as "the rat".


#112 maverick69

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Posted 04 August 2012 - 17:55

Hmmm.........Care to expand?


Mainly what TLFB said.

Also heard a few other things about his personality from people who work in F1. Could be just bollocks though....... But you've got to keep your team on your side.......

Yeah, Alonso is the only driver with this weakness. I wonder why RBR haven't booted Vettel, internally known as "the rat".


;)

Edited by maverick69, 04 August 2012 - 18:26.


#113 Zava

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Posted 04 August 2012 - 17:56

Yeah, Alonso is the only driver with this weakness. I wonder why RBR haven't booted Vettel, internally known as "the rat".

so Vettel's the modern age Lauda? that is a big compliment. :up: :wave:

#114 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 04 August 2012 - 18:22

so Vettel's the modern age Lauda? that is a big compliment. :up: :wave:


Yeah, the name already being taken was an obvious weakness of my joke :wave:

#115 Devero

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Posted 04 August 2012 - 18:35

This is curious. Many people in this thread say Alonso isn't the fastest and blah blah blah


Indeed. Alonso`s race pace and consistency is not just second to none. He is actually the best in the case.

#116 Alarcon

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Posted 04 August 2012 - 18:40

Vettel
Really hard to say, as RBR is a really hell of the car for a third year in a row. Something tells me that Seb irritates too easy and too much when things don't go his way. Still there are some questions about his abilities to provide strong and clean fight with equal compatitors when machinery provides zero advantage. Bloody fast over a single lap and was really a class of his own lst year, but 2012 season brought back old doubts.




Well, without the fastest car over one lap (McLaren) Seb this season has been (with Lewis) the best poleman so far. 3 pole positions for each one.

Where is the doubt? On championship he has been very unlucky so far (Karthikeyan ruined his race, he lost also 25 points on a race he was almost the winner, he received a penalty losing 10 points at Hockenheim...) despite this he beats his team mate on qualy and race and he is ahead Lewis Hamilton. Well... there will be doubts about him since he still does pole positions and wins WDC.;)

Imo his weakness is racing on the midfield where he feels uncomfortable (following another cars and changing his brake points far from his "perfect lap") And also I´ll say the way he overtakes the slow cars. I find him sometimes a little bit "arrogant" when he must overtake slower cars, just like if the other must step away inmediatly, he´s often so close.

About Lewis I´ll say his weakness is cracking under pressure on some qualy laps when he proved he got the speed to fight. That´s the only weakness I can find because this season he has been one of the best drivers and his team ruined some of his races and maybe his WDC options. He´s very complete too. Fast and his benchmark: the most spectacular driver on the grid (a pure racer).

And about Alonso imo his weakness is facing a fast team mate. Then he becomes "nervous" and is far from his best performance. Also sometimes on qualy he made some mistakes... however imo he´s the most complete driver on the grid. As I said many times I consider him a 8/10 in almost the areas.

Button: speed over one lap.

Webber: he is also a very complete driver. Very fast (he was the fastest over one lap until Seb joined him) and imo his weakness is he cracks under pressure and also the rain... he seems nothing special here.

Edited by Alarcon, 04 August 2012 - 18:47.


#117 Sakae

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Posted 04 August 2012 - 19:08

I wonder why RBR haven't booted Vettel, internally known as "the rat".

Care to expand on this?


#118 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 04 August 2012 - 19:36

Care to expand on this?


I didn't care to give a serious answer to the IMHO ridiculous listing of "willingness to resort to forbidden behavior" as a weakness of Alonso's. Reason being that AFAIK there was never a driver in F1 history who proved to be above taking wins against the rules. I tried to illustrate this by trying a roundabout joke about Vettel not exactly ratting out RBR when they bend the rules (just like everybody else).

EDIT: Funnily only one driver comes to my mind who I know was said to have told his team principal that he would blow the whistle on a rule infraction. He was often called a traitor for that on this very BB. :drunk:

Edited by KnucklesAgain, 04 August 2012 - 21:07.


#119 Sakae

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 05:53

I didn't care to give a serious answer to the IMHO ridiculous listing of "willingness to resort to forbidden behavior" as a weakness of Alonso's. Reason being that AFAIK there was never a driver in F1 history who proved to be above taking wins against the rules. I tried to illustrate this by trying a roundabout joke about Vettel not exactly ratting out RBR when they bend the rules (just like everybody else).

EDIT: Funnily only one driver comes to my mind who I know was said to have told his team principal that he would blow the whistle on a rule infraction. He was often called a traitor for that on this very BB. :drunk:

With respect to RBR allegedly "bending" technical regulations, if it existed in the first place, might be a complicated technical subject not really discussed with, or understood by a driver due to either lack of interest in those kind of details, or lack of suitable education prevents proper understanding of that subject. Put it differently, I am not sure if drivers really "know-all" on technical side. (Recent saga of one Renault engine).

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#120 PassWind

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 06:35

And once again, pay attention to what he does on track. In neither of those cases did his words translate to driving errors, loss of speed or fighting spirit. Until that happens, his radio conversations are merely funny, but ultimately irrelevant sidenotes.

You can watch an example of something similar in the brilliant BBC documentation "A season with McLaren" which covers 1993. In one episode, at Adelaide during qualifying, Senna's radio button gets stuck and he shouts at the pits in a very agitated way for whole lap. While setting fastest lap and getting pole at the same time.

As the saying goes in Germany, from our most famous poet: "Worte sind Schall und Rauch" (words are but noise and smoke).



Senna also saw aparations of god floating above his car, I remember Senna in a different light. I am totally not surprised that Senna did that on a fast lap.

#121 Spa One

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 07:03


Although i do not like just about any of the reported things Hamilton does off track, no one has the means to prove that any of that affects his driving.



#122 Anderis

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 12:20

Webber: he is also a very complete driver. Very fast (he was the fastest over one lap until Seb joined him) and imo his weakness is he cracks under pressure and also the rain... he seems nothing special here.

I don't think Webber is a complete driver. He lacks consistency. He can be as quick as anyone one day and another day he drives around 8th place the car that is capable of fighting for top3 position.
Can't agree about rain. I think Mark is one of the very best wet-weather driver in the field. When he was driving midfield cars, he had a lot of brilliant performances in rain. Qualifying to Brazil 2003, European GP 2007, Japan 2007 both qualifying and race, Monaco 2008, Italy 2008, qualifying etc.
I think he was also in top3 in every wet qualifying session since 2008. If not every, then the majority.

Edited by Anderis, 05 August 2012 - 12:22.


#123 as65p

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 12:42

Senna also saw aparations of god floating above his car, I remember Senna in a different light. I am totally not surprised that Senna did that on a fast lap.


Even that is irrelevant as long as the driver stays fast and error-free during it.  ;)


#124 toroRosso

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 13:19

Alonso: He is not what you see in the interviews, he is what you've seen in the past. I like the guy he is on camera, no doubt. Thing is, his behavior isn't a weakness untill he's been put in to jail for example: spying. Very gray person in the F1.
Webber: Not sure what to think of him.
Vettel: Like someone wrote earlier, he gives way too much faith in to people knowing what's fair and not. Sometimes falls for hypocrism in that area aswell. I can imagine disliking him if I wasn't supporting him actually.
Hamilton: No weaknesses apart from losing concentration at times. A truly a great driver and a person.
Raikkonen: The mumbler that I liked from the start, very independent guy. In a team sport as F1 he can be ousted as we've seen. If he hadn't a big fan base we might see him being a lapdog for any driver the team prefers. As it currently stands his large fanbase makes the teams respect him slightly more. Speedwise he is up there.
Rosberg: I don't know what to say. Nice guy, tries hard to have some colour in his personality, Im afraid he was raised too much by certain standards and his imagination has died. What is wrong with his car.
Button: Not up there speedwise. Very fast but definetly second tier in F1 with current drivers. His experience won him a championship. Also a huge risk taker, which often turn out to be successful. His team needs to trust his calls.
Grosjean: Nice guy, good speed, lucky to partner Kimi, the most fair teamie in the sport. Also lucky there's speed in the Lotus.
Schumacher: Having fun and cruisin.
Massa: Needed to change teams long ago. He knew how the team would handle a second driver since he had just been the first driver to Kimi. What did he possibly think pairin Alonso? Not very realistic guy.
Rest: Don't know very well.





#125 korzeniow

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 14:24

Vettel: Like someone wrote earlier, he gives way too much faith in to people knowing what's fair and not. Sometimes falls for hypocrism in that area aswell. I can imagine disliking him if I wasn't supporting him actually.
Hamilton: No weaknesses apart from losing concentration at times. A truly a great driver and a person.


:stoned: :stoned:

The former is one of the most open and honest of the F1 drivers while the latter is proven liar and when he speaks you can hear only PR talk. Also you didn't forget to mention spying when you judge Alonso. Obvious love for Hamilton is obvious

#126 oligc94

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 14:34

:stoned: :stoned:

The former is one of the most open and honest of the F1 drivers while the latter is proven liar and when he speaks you can hear only PR talk. Also you didn't forget to mention spying when you judge Alonso. Obvious love for Hamilton is obvious


Come on, don't kid yourself in to thinking that any F1 drivers are open or honest, and in my opinion Vettel is one of the more devious drivers on the grid. To be fair to the user that you quoted, Hamilton does wear his heart on his sleeve and seems pretty genuine for the most part, and you could hardly argue that instances such as his Ali G outburst are 'PR talk'.


#127 Sakae

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 16:19

Come on, don't kid yourself in to thinking that any F1 drivers are open or honest, and in my opinion Vettel is one of the more devious drivers on the grid. To be fair to the user that you quoted, Hamilton does wear his heart on his sleeve and seems pretty genuine for the most part, and you could hardly argue that instances such as his Ali G outburst are 'PR talk'.

Let me guess, you don't like RBR and Vettel.

#128 Nahnever

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 16:31

Although i do not like just about any of the reported things Hamilton does off track, no one has the means to prove that any of that affects his driving.

What does Hammy do of the track that is so bad?

#129 Alarcon

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 23:02

Some of the comments here make me wonder if anyone actually WATCHES Mark race...

If I had to point out a weakness, it'd be that he doesn't like the boring Tilke-dromes and goes better at the classic tracks (except Monza for some weird reason). I mean, who can blame him, really, but it does need sorting.

For all the bozos wailing about his starts, please tell me how many places Mark has lost off the line since Monaco this year...funny how as soon as RB fixed the mechanism...kapow!



Mark Webber never did something special over Melbourne with a competitive car. Same as Monza. Same as Suzuka. Same as Spa. Same as Hockenheim. Same as Hungary. Same as Brazil. Same as... we talk about Tilke or about Mark results?

Well, you can say he is very strong at Nurburgring, Spain or Monaco. Or even he improved on the starts, but there are a lot of other classic tracks on the championship where he´s not special... and that´s not Tilke´s fault. ):

#130 Kvothe

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 23:47

Mark Webber never did something special over Melbourne with a competitive car. Same as Monza. Same as Suzuka. Same as Spa. Same as Hockenheim. Same as Hungary. Same as Brazil. Same as... we talk about Tilke or about Mark results?

Well, you can say he is very strong at Nurburgring, Spain or Monaco. Or even he improved on the starts, but there are a lot of other classic tracks on the championship where he´s not special... and that´s not Tilke´s fault. ):


Hasn't Webber won Brazil twice?

#131 rossbrawn

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 23:53

Hasn't Webber won Brazil twice?


Once, the second one was a nice gift from the team :p .

#132 Cool Beans

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 00:01

Come on, don't kid yourself in to thinking that any F1 drivers are open or honest

Whilst this kind of embarrassing media whoring is now a part of an F1 driver's job:

Posted Image

... there is still luckily one of these on the grid:

Posted Image

#133 as65p

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 00:03

Once, the second one was a nice gift from the team :p .


MS fans know about those, hm? :)

#134 Kvothe

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 00:03

Once, the second one was a nice gift from the team :p .

:)

#135 Kvothe

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 00:05

Whilst this kind of embarrassing media whoring is now a part of an F1 driver's job:



... there is still luckily one of these on the grid:

Posted Image


Who Kimi ?



:lol:



#136 Cool Beans

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 00:13

Who Kimi ?



:lol:

I was referring more to the way drivers see and and play games through the press. The pictures were a funny pictorial reference to the differing attitudes :)

#137 rossbrawn

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 00:21

MS fans know about those, hm? :)


So too does Rubens Barrichello :).

Posted Image

But, that was a gift from Michael, rather than the team :D.

Edited by rossbrawn, 07 August 2012 - 00:23.


#138 rossbrawn

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 00:24

But why stop there?

Hello Nando:

Posted Image

#139 Kvothe

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 00:28

I was referring more to the way drivers see and and play games through the press. The pictures were a funny pictorial reference to the differing attitudes :)


I wouldn't call Kimi honest more apathetic, however that didn't stop him and his management near the end of last year using the press to gauge reaction to his comeback.

Edited by Kvothe, 07 August 2012 - 00:29.


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#140 rossbrawn

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 00:41

OT, but:

Gareth's Law: As an autosport discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving the 2007 team mate battle between Hamilton and Alonso approaches one. The first person to raise the comparison should generally be considered to have lost the discussion


Nice one :rotfl: :clap: .

#141 fabr68

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 00:48

Alonso: He is not what you see in the interviews, he is what you've seen in the past. I like the guy he is on camera, no doubt. Thing is, his behavior isn't a weakness untill he's been put in to jail for example: spying. Very gray person in the F1.


:rotfl:



#142 byronbolscher

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 01:16

Alonso: He is not what you see in the interviews, he is what you've seen in the past. I like the guy he is on camera, no doubt. Thing is, his behavior isn't a weakness untill he's been put in to jail for example: spying. Very gray person in the F1.


To be honest, his behavior did cost him the 2007 title in my opinion, when he did his holding up trick on Hamilton in qualifying at Hungary, and got a grid penalty for it.. He could have easily bagged the points needed in the end for the title had he not done that.

#143 HPT

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 01:20

... there is still luckily one of these on the grid:

Posted Image


This pic reminds me of a Photoshopped pic of Alonso sitting in a boat showing his middle finger to the photographer. He was chastised for it. But Kimi did it and everyone's saying how cool he is. Double standards much?

#144 HPT

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 01:21

Alonso: He is not what you see in the interviews, he is what you've seen in the past. I like the guy he is on camera, no doubt. Thing is, his behavior isn't a weakness untill he's been put in to jail for example: spying. Very gray person in the F1.


Tell us more about him since you obviously know what he's like personally, unlike us mortals who merely see what's on the tv screen.

#145 Kvothe

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 01:48

OT, but:



Nice one :rotfl: :clap: .

:lol:

#146 as65p

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 04:52

So too does Rubens Barrichello :).
But, that was a gift from Michael, rather than the team :D.


Weird choice, I always thought that was a gift by... accident. But of course there were others. Ferrari
always made sure their drivers were exchanging presents during that time.

So don't slam RB and Webber for it, they learned from the best. :D

#147 Raelene

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 05:27

MSC repayed more wins that he was give ...not sure why this has to come up in stage 2. of his career (or in this thread) ..Mercedes are so cr ap that it's a pointless discussion

#148 karne

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 14:54

Curious: can someone explain to me where the hell this myth of Webber being weak in the rain came from?

Because that's just a really dumb thing to say...

#149 flyer121

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 15:26

Curious: can someone explain to me where the hell this myth of Webber being weak in the rain came from?

Because that's just a really dumb thing to say...


I think they have to list some weakness of all drivers so they put something in randomly. ..

... out of interest - what do you think Webber's weakness is?

#150 flyer121

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 17:09

This pic reminds me of a Photoshopped pic of Alonso sitting in a boat showing his middle finger to the photographer. He was chastised for it. But Kimi did it and everyone's saying how cool he is. Double standards much?

It's not what you do ... It's how you do it.
that pic is just mega cool.