Borrowed production bits on F1 racing cars
#1
Posted 03 August 2012 - 19:26
A modern F1 car uses lots of off the shelf bits in the electronics and electrical departments. But when were major assemblies last used? The last example that I can think of is when F1 designers adopted and modified aluminium/plastic construction radiators from saloon cars. Hart and BMW engine blocks don't count because they are so far evolved from the source car to be unrecognisable. I'm asking about bits where you look at them and think "I'm sure I know where that came from".
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#2
Posted 04 August 2012 - 02:19
Also I think that special flanged bearings produced by SKF for "normal" cars were used in the Wolf / Fittipaldi and Tyrrell P34
#3
Posted 04 August 2012 - 07:45
Obviuosly Sir Jacks Buik based Repco engines in the past
#4
Posted 04 August 2012 - 07:58
#5
Posted 04 August 2012 - 08:04
#6
Posted 04 August 2012 - 08:28
#7
Posted 04 August 2012 - 08:43
#8
Posted 04 August 2012 - 09:04
#9
Posted 04 August 2012 - 09:06
Maybe not quite production car parts but remember reading an article where Patrick Head confirmed helicopter parts were used in the active williams cars
Were the motors used in the Lotus 56 Turbine cars Pratt & Whitney Helicopter engines?
#10
Posted 04 August 2012 - 09:32
Yes, a modified version of the P&W ST6B-62. The Continental Aviation & Engineering TS325-1 gas turbines used in the Howmet TX sports prototype were also originally designed as helicopter engines.Were the motors used in the Lotus 56 Turbine cars Pratt & Whitney Helicopter engines?
#11
Posted 04 August 2012 - 10:21
#12
Posted 04 August 2012 - 11:41
Originally posted by alansart
Triumph Herald front uprights?
Mentioned in the opening post... Alford and Alder...
However, as the OP pointed out, he is asking about things much more recent than the last use (Brabham in 1965 or 1967?) of these, he's asking what might have been identifiable in recent years.
#13
Posted 04 August 2012 - 14:44
Mentioned in the opening post... Alford and Alder...
Indeed. I was partially inspired by this thread:
http://forums.autosp...showtopic=71291
My memory is rusty about VW and Citroen water radiator modification, but didn't it start in Group 5?
#14
Posted 04 August 2012 - 15:46
I seem to remember that the Williams FW07's water radiator came from a VW Golf. (I read it somewhere...)
Also I think that special flanged bearings produced by SKF for "normal" cars were used in the Wolf / Fittipaldi and Tyrrell P34
According to Doug Nye's History Of The Grand Prix car, the FW07 used a VW Golf radiator in 1979 and a Citroën CX radiator in 1980.
#15
Posted 04 August 2012 - 16:04
According to Doug Nye's History Of The Grand Prix car, the FW07 used a VW Golf radiator in 1979 and a Citroën CX radiator in 1980.
I'm not surprised. My Formula Ford PRS originally had 2 bespoke radiators placed between the rear radius arms, just in front of the rear wheels. In 1982 they were £120 a time from PRS so having destroyed a few we looked for an alternative which was Vauxhall Nova. £15 each, lighter and far more efficient - plus we moved them further forward so that the rear wheel did less damage on a rear end shunt.
In those days road car technology was moving quickly, so why not make use of what's available.
Edited by alansart, 04 August 2012 - 16:07.
#16
Posted 04 August 2012 - 16:53
#17
Posted 04 August 2012 - 23:21
There must be a LOT of Heralds out there in the world with no frony stubs. Lots of clubbies used them too, as did a lot of open wheelers too ofcourse.Mentioned in the opening post... Alford and Alder...
However, as the OP pointed out, he is asking about things much more recent than the last use (Brabham in 1965 or 1967?) of these, he's asking what might have been identifiable in recent years.
Too me quite spindly things and a lot are cracked or bent. [50 years after manufacture]
#18
Posted 04 August 2012 - 23:21
As are Transit, D series brake reservoir bottlesThe clutch release bearings supplied by AP Racing for F1 applications well in to the 90's were re-packed Ford Transit parts.
#19
Posted 05 August 2012 - 03:34
I do recall seeing the famous Herald upright ( or its sister) on Mario Andretti's Indy winning tube frame car ( Brawner)? - I always wondered how it took the Indy cornering loads!
I think the Herald upright was quickly modded by machining the lower trunnion thread off so as to allow a ball joint to go on so the geometry was not set by castor angle
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#20
Posted 05 August 2012 - 16:48
Wasn't there a Ligier that had quite a few Citreon suspension parts, probably in the 6cm ride height fiasco period?
To answer my own question, it was the JS21.
#21
Posted 05 August 2012 - 18:40
#22
Posted 05 August 2012 - 20:50
#23
Posted 05 August 2012 - 21:26
Yes but specialist "off the shelf" parts - not items you'd find in a mass market car or van.Surely even now, things like wheel bearings, CV joints, clutch components, electrical parts and so on are bought in, so may well be off the shelf parts?
#24
Posted 06 August 2012 - 07:57
#25
Posted 06 August 2012 - 08:16
Early Gordinis had steering wheels from Simcas, including horn button.
We might be getting off topic here.
The early Simca Gordini monos also used the road car's Dubonnet front suspension units and I'm sure their finned alloy brake drums.
Edited by Wilyman, 06 August 2012 - 08:17.
#26
Posted 06 August 2012 - 08:27
I'm not sure why it's off topic. I was just amused about the idea of a horn button on a racing car.We might be getting off topic here.
The early Simca Gordini monos also used the road car's Dubonnet front suspension units and I'm sure their finned alloy brake drums.
#27
Posted 06 August 2012 - 08:55
Surely even now, things like wheel bearings, CV joints, clutch components, electrical parts and so on are bought in, so may well be off the shelf parts?
Not so certain. From my limited time at Stewart Grand Prix, these parts may be off the shelf, but aerospace rather than automotive, and even then these were limited. So many parts are now made specifically. I watched a bearing race broken down, and the outer sleeve replaced with a machined carbon ring and I suspect, given time, the inner race would have been replaced, then only using original ball bearings, until someone worked out a way you didn't need them or they could be made in house, better and lighter.
#28
Posted 06 August 2012 - 09:23
David
#29
Posted 06 August 2012 - 11:42
#30
Posted 06 August 2012 - 15:16
Windscreen washer jet pumps make for excellent driver drinks bottle pumps ;)
#31
Posted 06 August 2012 - 16:15
#32
Posted 06 August 2012 - 20:10
The Shadow Mk.II & III Can-Am cars with inboard front brakes used Porsche 914 driveshafts to connect the breaks with the wheel hubs.
I admit to having no engineering knowledge whatsoever so please bear this in mind when I ask: what is the benefit of inboard brakes in a car with wheels enclosed in bodywork? I understand how they make sense in an open-wheeler.
#33
Posted 06 August 2012 - 20:39
#34
Posted 06 August 2012 - 21:34
Reduced unsprung weight - the less weight you have on the wheel side of the spring the better the roadholding.
Always wondered why the front end of my 2CV's, with inboard front brakes, handled so well
Trying desperately to get back on topic I notice that the Lotus 49's made use not only of Ford Escort steering racks, but of common bungee chords to hold the oil tank in position on the original 49's and also as the return springs for the DRS on the later 49B's.
#35
Posted 07 August 2012 - 00:52
You mean it wasn't the mass damper that made the difference???Always wondered why the front end of my 2CV's, with inboard front brakes, handled so well ;)
#36
Posted 07 August 2012 - 15:12
This might change a bit when they bring in the 1.6 litre turbo engines. The turbochargers are supossed to be 'production' parts. And maybe one or the other engine will be drawn from a normal stock block. Who knows.
BTW: How many cylinders will those be allowed to have?
About the Shadow Mk.II:
Let me quote Peter Bryant from his book Can-Am Challanger:Reduced unsprung weight - the less weight you have on the wheel side of the spring the better the roadholding.
"I decided to use 12" diameter Lockheed disc brakes all around. That meant the rears could be mounted outboard but the fronts had to be inboard because you can't get 12" brake rotors inside 12" rims."