17 replies to this topic

[Charlieman]

The thread about Portuguese timing prodded my mind. A few people observed that the extra point for fastest lap might have encouraged teams to aim for it when a position points finish was unattainable, a form of gaming the system. And there are occasions when a team created a special car for one or two events to beat the points system or wave a finger at other competitors. I can think of two immediately.

The first is the Baby Porsche 935 designed to deny points to BMW in the German Group 5 series. The second is the 1939 Mercedes W165 which was about telling voiturette manufacturers and Italians "whatever you can do, we can do better".

Interesting side points about those are they were both German manufacturers and that the time line (draft design to starting grid) was very short.

Other teams and manufacturers must have played similar games.

[kayemod]

Other teams and manufacturers must have played similar games.

There were the 'supercharged' Alan Mann Escorts in British saloon car racing. No capacity increase, but adding a small fan meant that equivalence factors moved them up to the next class to take points off larger-engined championship rivals, thus boosting the chances of the 'normal' Escort FVAs.

[Amphicar]

You've mentioned two German marques but a third springs to mind - Porsche with the 908/3, built specifically to win on tracks such as the Targa Florio and the Nurburgring, where the 917s would struggle.

[arttidesco]

There was also the 235 mph Moby Dick the 936/78 that was faster than the Group 6 cars on the Mulsanne Straight at Le Mans but failed to break the Renault Group 6 cars after an ill advised drive from Porsche's garage to the track prior to the race.

Lancia ran Gp 5 Montecarlos in the big Gp 5 class in an effort to steal point's from the ubiquitous 935's in 1980 and 1981 which secured them two World Sports Car Championships.

The following season Lancia again tried to outwitted Porsche running the Lancia LC1 which did not have any fuel restrictions against the 956 which did. This time Lancia were not so lucky and Ickx won the sports car drivers championship which the LC1 was built to compete for.

And then there was the ultimate gaming car the WM Peugeot's which were built with the sole aim of reaching 400 km/h on the Mulsanne Straight for the glory of France.

The Brabham BT46 Fan Car strikes me as another gammer, legal for just the one race which put the Lotus nose out of joint before it was banned.

IIRC Tom Walkinshaw ruffled a few feathers when he drove a Capri in race 1 and an Escort in race 2 of a saloon car championship meeting back in the mid 1970's which for reason's I do not remember was not considered cricket.

Finally as has been mentioned elsewhere on TNF Vauxhall had Tony Lanfranchi running a Prod Saloon Astra in a couple of Group A races to help someones title ambitions by making up the class numbers to secure maximum points back in the late 1980's.

[arttidesco]

Doh ! Did anyone mention the Penske PC23 with the MB 500l motor built to compete, and dominate the 1994 Indy 500 ?

[D-Type]

In the sixties cars scored points in the European Touring Car Championship based on class positions. There had to be a minimum number of starters for full points. At a race in eastern Europe the class was short on numbers. One of the Cooper mechanics had a competition licence so they entered him in a Fiat hire car; they also found an Austrian with a competition licence and a Cortina road car so they persuaded him to enter as well in exchange for a set of new wheels. And a Mini Cooper duly collected the full points for the class win. More deviously, at Monza the Lotus Cortinas hadn't a chance against the Alfas but the Minis stod a good chance in their class. So as spoiler Ford entered Chris Craft in an Anglia and detailed Henry Taylor in (I think) a Lotus Cortina to give him a slipstream tow. Consequently Chris was well in the lead in the 1000cc class when he ran out of fuel on the last lap and Warwick Banks duly won the class and the Championship.

[uechtel]

Not special cars, but specials drivers in the old days of the DTM. There was a weight penalty system according to which the scorers of a race would receive some ballast for the next race in order to hold the field close together. But when the works teams came it got very tactical on this. Finally they had the idea to invite "guest drivers" from other European series who could run without ballast, so that the opponents could not score the points.


Also in some way the use of qualifying tyres is kind of the same idea.

And also lots of starting-money-specials.

Edited by uechtel, 11 August 2012 - 07:23.

[arttidesco]

Does Colin's DRS used on Graham Hill's Mexican GP winning Lotus 49 count as gamesmanship ?

[Amphicar]

When it comes to special cars and gamesmanship, Smokey Yunick could have written the book. Come to think of it - he did.

[BRG]

Wasn't the BMW M3 GTR V8 raced in ALMS a bit of rather cynical gamesmanship? I think BMW told ALMS that, although there was no V8 model in production, they intended to make one soon. ALMS allowed it to race against protests from Porsche that it was really a prototype. They were proved right as BMW never did make a real production V8 version of that particular model.

[Allan Lupton]

I think this thread shows that the term "gamesmanship" has been hijacked by the unscrupulous.
Stephen Potter, who coined the term in his book The Theory and Practice of Gamesmanship defined it as "the Art of Winning Games without Actually Cheating" and a great deal of the foregoing certainly is cheating.

Hey ho.

[f1steveuk]

The Brabham BT46 Fan Car strikes me as another gammer, legal for just the one race which put the Lotus nose out of joint before it was banned.

I can't agree with that one I'm afraid, sorry!

The 46B was designed and not quickly (it took weeks to get the fan, originally a tank engine cooling fan, to stop shattering at high revs), to combat the onset of ground effect, something a flat 12 didn't lend itself too. That Gordon already had a twin fan car drawn up for the following year would indicate it wasn't merely a bit of gamesmanship, and had Bernie and Gordon not agreed to withdraw the 46B (it was never banned, a statement guaranteed to get Bernie "in your face" with a wagging finger!!), Brabham would have run it for the rest of the year, as the next step was a better fan drive train and skirt system.

[arttidesco]

I can't agree with that one I'm afraid, sorry!

The 46B was designed and not quickly (it took weeks to get the fan, originally a tank engine cooling fan, to stop shattering at high revs), to combat the onset of ground effect, something a flat 12 didn't lend itself too. That Gordon already had a twin fan car drawn up for the following year would indicate it wasn't merely a bit of gamesmanship, and had Bernie and Gordon not agreed to withdraw the 46B (it was never banned, a statement guaranteed to get Bernie "in your face" with a wagging finger!!), Brabham would have run it for the rest of the year, as the next step was a better fan drive train and skirt system.

I never did get my head around diplomacy so I'll take your word for it the 46B was never 'banned' and not gamesmanship but if the BT46B was legitimate why would Mr Ecclestone and Mr Murray agree to withdraw it ? Maybe the answer ought to be the subject of another thread.

[f1steveuk]

I never did get my head around diplomacy so I'll take your word for it the 46B was never 'banned' and not gamesmanship but if the BT46B was legitimate why would Mr Ecclestone and Mr Murray agree to withdraw it ? Maybe the answer ought to be the subject of another thread.

As I recall BCE telling me (and Gordon confirmed it later) it was partly the "throwing stones at others" problem, and partly a small group (BCE, Chapman, Ken Tyrrell and a couple of others) thought that if it was allowed to develop, there would be no limits how far it could go, so it was stopped before it could go silly. Of course, that the twin fan design was only on paper, it may have been Bernie being crafty, if he couldn't have a fan car, no one could, and there were rumours of a 79 with fans at the time, but had he not agreed to withdraw the 46B, it would have seen the season out.

[Amphicar]

I never did get my head around diplomacy so I'll take your word for it the 46B was never 'banned' and not gamesmanship but if the BT46B was legitimate why would Mr Ecclestone and Mr Murray agree to withdraw it ? Maybe the answer ought to be the subject of another thread.

According to Terry Lovell in Bernie's Game

"The opposition mounted against Ecclestone became so intense that his role within the FOCA itself was threatened. Chapman and other leading team bosses made it clear that unless he withdrew the BT46B he could forget about representing the constructors."

That would seem to explain why Mr E agreed to withdraw the car. It is pretty clear that Gordon Murray was extremely unhappy with the decision but ultimately he was just a Brabham employee - the decision was Bernie's.

If anything, the gamesmanship was being practised by Colin Chapman, who threatened to build a car with 4 fans unless the BT46B was withdrawn. Gamesmanship with a special car that never existed - now that's quite an achievement!

Edited by Amphicar, 11 August 2012 - 15:57.

[arttidesco]

Well what ever the wrongs and rights of the 46B one can't help but feel Bernie acted in the greater good by withdrawing the BT46B, I don't think anyone would have been happy watching a bunch of vacuum cleaners in action.

[Stephen W]

In the sixties cars scored points in the European Touring Car Championship based on class positions. There had to be a minimum number of starters for full points.

A similar system still operates in the British Hillclimb Leaders Championship. So if a team enters two cars (each with two drivers) then they can gain maximum points if they are the only entries in the class. Obviously team tactics could determine the finishing order.

BTW not sure that a Porsche 908/3 could be classified as a "one off".

[Sharman]

This thread brings to mind Roger Enever who had access to BMC body presses and an unlimited supply of aluminium sheet...