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F1 Fans are being priced out of the sport!


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#1 BackOnTop

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 12:07

Interesting & sad, but F1, FOM and Bernie live in alternate reality it seems. Below are some points from the article about how F1 is being handled by the current management.
http://en.espnf1.com...html?CMP=chrome

-Despite a season of nail-biting action on track, attendance at grands prix is noticeably down this year. Valencia, Monaco and even Montreal failed to fill up the stands.

-It's easy to blame the circuits for the high cost of tickets, but they are struggling to afford the F1 hosting contracts escalating.
-With no money coming their way from trackside advertising revenues (all of which go to Formula One Administration at the majority of tracks on the calendar), circuits have no choice but to inflate their entry costs to cover hosting fees.

-For a family of four to attend the 2013 British Grand Prix at Silverstone would cost £496 (three-day general admission). That same family of four could have a week in Majorca for £503. Choice for family- a weekend of rain-soaked racing over a week-long break in the sun.

-Sky TV package is being offered for roughly the same annual cost as those four three-day tickets and the coverage is more comprehensive than anything they can get at the circuit? It makes far more sense to stay home.

-But despite the expansive nature of their offering, Sky simply aren't doing the numbers. The Spanish Grand Prix was seen by 523,000 viewers on SkySportsF1, while 565,000 for Monaco. A more impressive 924,000 people watched Lewis Hamilton win in Montreal, while only 531,000 watched Valencia. Sky gets higher numbers only when BBC is not airing the race.

-The British Grand Prix - which was also being shown live on the BBC - had a miserable 455,000 viewers on Sky.

-Sky will repeat the sharing trick in Italy next year, splitting coverage with RAI, it is likely that this downwards trend will continue. The worsening global financial situation since 2008 has seen broadcasters struggle to make ends meet. Sky do not need to concern themselves with attracting viewers, just subscribers. Unfortunately, for sponsors, eyeballs are all that matter which is on decline.

-Bernie: "Sky is doing an incredible job but if you look at their audience, they are nowhere," he said. "With these figures it would be almost impossible for teams to find sponsors. That would be suicidal."

-Teams are now changing their approach, going after a greater number of sponsors at a lower cost in an effort to plug the hole, but brand bombardment doesn't help anyone.

-The biggest problem is the separation between the realities of the current economic climate and the persistent increases in hosting and broadcasting fees. Classic tracks are falling off the calendar, or fighting to survive, while even new arrivals like Singapore are protesting the high price they pay.

-And because the broadcasting fees charged by FOM have not taken into account global declining advertising revenues and a slow but steady drop in worldwide F1 viewing figures since 2006, free-to-air television is on the wane and fans are being priced out of following their sport on TV. Many have turned to online streams and torrents.

-Fans matter. It may not feel like it at times, but every pair of eyeballs watching a TV broadcast of a race is helping the teams on screen pick up sponsors. Without the fans, the sponsors turn away. Without the sponsors, the teams can't afford to race. It sounds simple, because it is.

-The fans are the only thing that can guarantee F1's future, and it's worth remembering that before the vast majority are priced out of the market.


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#2 grandmastashi

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 12:15

Good read, but it's what we've been saying as fans for years. You can only keep rinsing Joe Public for so long before he votes with his feet and decides to do something else with his hard earned money.

F1 still has a elitist vibe, you only had to look at what was being shown on the big screens at Silverstone whilst qualifying was rained off. Whilst the paying public were enjoying seeing absolutely nothing on track but falling water whilst getting soaked, the big screens were showing non-paying corporate guests, smiling, laughing and enjoying a free, five star lunch.

The divide between the grandstands and the paddock is just getting bigger, and unless our lord and master Mr Ecclestone wakes up and realises, Grand Prix won't be much good to hold if no one can afford to go and see them.

#3 BackOnTop

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 12:22

Good read, but it's what we've been saying as fans for years. You can only keep rinsing Joe Public for so long before he votes with his feet and decides to do something else with his hard earned money.

F1 still has a elitist vibe, you only had to look at what was being shown on the big screens at Silverstone whilst qualifying was rained off. Whilst the paying public were enjoying seeing absolutely nothing on track but falling water whilst getting soaked, the big screens were showing non-paying corporate guests, smiling, laughing and enjoying a free, five star lunch.

The divide between the grandstands and the paddock is just getting bigger, and unless our lord and master Mr Ecclestone wakes up and realises, Grand Prix won't be much good to hold if no one can afford to go and see them.

If they FOM had any sense, they could have easily shown highlights of past British GP, even last years. But wait, Circuit organizers would then have to spend more money to "Buy the Rights" from FOM to be able to show their own races, held in their own track.

Nasa is more open about sharing info, images, videos from Curiosity Rover than the current F1 management going around banning youtube videos. That's real cheap.

Edited by BackOnTop, 16 August 2012 - 12:34.


#4 GSiebert

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 12:36

A good read, I wonder how long this system can continue like this.

#5 Prost1997T

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 12:47

I found this part more interesting:

In 2011, sponsors paid a reported $887 million into Formula One. Figures for 2012 are not yet available, but are widely expected to be down. While no one is talking on the record, a number of teams are struggling to make ends meet thanks to declining sponsorship income, and there are concerns that some won't make it.

Because at the moment, Formula One is a hard sell. The blue chip brands with the big money to spend are wary of being associated with the negative press surrounding the Gribkowsky scandal and the widely-criticised decision to press ahead with this year's Bahrain Grand Prix, and declining viewing figures don't make the hard sale any easier.

Teams are now changing their approach, going after a greater number of sponsors at a lower cost in an effort to plug the hole. But because part of the attraction of Formula One is in its perceived exclusivity, there is a limit to the number of additional sponsors that can be added - brand bombardment doesn't help anyone.

There's no denying that Formula One is in a period of financial decline caused in part by the global financial crisis. But the biggest problem is the separation between the realities of the current economic climate and the persistent increases in hosting and broadcasting fees.


Edited by Prost1997T, 16 August 2012 - 12:47.


#6 Buttoneer

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 13:13

There's an article by Dieter Rencken on Autosport Plus from July in which his message is, essentially, the same.

http://plus.autospor...-of-the-market/ (pay article)

However, the real issue is that any reduction in hosting fees is likely to have minimal effect on race attendances unless all peripheral operators come to the party – something these rip-off artists are unlikely to do, for what easier way of boosting profits than profiteering from race fans by way of obscene charges for accommodation etc.? For 'profiteering', read price increases of anything up to 1000 per cent over their normal charges!

It's aimed more at journalists and race attendees.

I went to the race at Hungary a few years ago and it was incredibly cheap. Great value overall, with food, drink and accommodation and tickets all working out at comparatively bargain prices. At Hungary this year I felt fleeced at every turn. A 'Gyros Szendvics' (which turned out to be a doner kebab) was 2800ft, and a 0.5l bottle of water 400ft. The kebab consisted of a small amount of meat and salad in a small round pita 'pocket' rather than a proper elliptical pita bread. So crappy lunch for two works out at 6400ft or £18 at todays exchange rate.

In Budapest city centre a 2l bottle of water was 180ft and a full sized kebab 600ft. Lunch for two £4.40.

Similar increases in taxi fares, a hotel tax that triples for the three GP nights, and grandstand tickets at higher than Silverstone levels mean that I'll not be going back for a Grand Prix to Hungary again.

F1 does need to think hard about the entire economy of the sport, and not just think about the small aspect of fleecing they are responsible for.

On the other hand someone where I work was chauffeured and private jetted all the way to the Red Bull garage for Monaco weekend so there are plenty of people with the cash and interest who are prepared to go watch even the most expensive of races.

#7 Rubens Hakkamacher

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 13:16

It can't sustain this, it's anti-growth.

There should be an affordable way for *every* F1 fan to see a race. That doesn't mean $150 stand-in-the-mud
to see a fence, that means SEE A RACE.

"Why isn't F1 popular in the states?"





#8 alframsey

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 13:25

F1 fans are being no more priced out of the sport than fans of Football, Boxing, Cricket, etc. Unfortunately nothing comes for free anymore, if you enjoy watching F1 then be prepared to shell out a reasonable sum of money for the pleasure, same with many other sports.

#9 Tuxy

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 13:32

Well I guess things will sort themselves out eventually.

Old-guard will fall eventually, and hopefully fresh blood with new ideas with bring the sport to everyone at reasonable price.

The fact I cannot even watch a live F1 event online subsidized by ads is just plain pathetic. I've been to Montreal GP once in 1999. It was an experience, but not worth repeating; especially for the price you pay.

#10 Red17

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 13:40

The article doesn't adress one of the main problems: Bernie has been selling golden calendar slots to countries looking only for good PR.
These countries have tons of money available and will pay anything just for showing that they host a prestige event. There is no way to match the insane figures these governments are paying, particularly at a time when racing is not as popular in mainstream press as it once was.

As it was pointed out in another thread, in past decades these countries were not in the market, you had about 3 suspicious countries and that was it. A bit of noise and the GP would be dropped, there was no cynical thinking on the levels we have today and to be honest those suspicious countries did have some passion and background in racing.

But it's different now. You have big dollar spending governments lining up and FOM repeating they are not interested in political problems. It's basic economics, if you have more buyers than slots, the prices will go up because you can squeeze the money out of the interest. Bernie found out his golden egg hen and he has been skillfully opening slots one by one in order to keep interest high.
Then enters the law of physics, since 2 GP's can't have the same slot FOM will obviously choose the higher bidder, if the venue happens to be paying a high price already FOM will demand expensive «upgrades» or simply bump the price each year to force them out.
Dropping tracks also drops interest, not to mention we now have one single man signing half of the tracks on the calendar!

I also find it ironic that Bahrain is being pointed out as a problem. Funny how everyone in the paddock was saying how this would go unnoticed. Oh dear, seems like there is a world outside the bubble.

Naturally all discussions will be started by the teams as they are always at the end of the line. They do have a point that they are the ones fronting Formula 1 and taking the end of the stick.

#11 JRizzle86

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 13:40

I have only been to see one race live, Silverstone 2001. I was lucky, we got offered tickets as part of a sponsor's offer. Since then I have always considered going again but every time the sheer cost is the turn-off. I don't blame it on the track promoter, but they don't exactly help it with the cost of food or drinks at the event. F1 needs to wake up and smell the realistic spending power of the public. Or if they wish to continue with current pricing they need to provide facilities and experience within the track worth the price. I could easily go to one of the top festivals in the country for 3 days and camping for the price of 1 day at Silverstone.

#12 undersquare

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 14:08

That quote of Bernie's :stoned: . Why does anyone do business with him? One year Sky would be terrible for F1, next thing here they are helping it into its death spiral.

Same thing on the day it broke - he told Whitmarsh flatly BBC would be able to show the full race, then half an hour later it was highlights only.


#13 Buttoneer

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 14:16

F1 fans are being no more priced out of the sport than fans of Football, Boxing, Cricket, etc. Unfortunately nothing comes for free anymore, if you enjoy watching F1 then be prepared to shell out a reasonable sum of money for the pleasure, same with many other sports.

Difference is that your football or 20/20 cricket game are over in a day and maybe you'll have an expensive hotel overnight, but most likely it's a day-travel event only. F1 runs over three days, maybe two, with for most people a guaranteed hotel bill. It's an entire weekend.

In addition, most people have a fitba stadium close to them at which their team will eventually play. GP's for the most part are one per country so if you're not living in, say, Incheon then you have a long way to travel from any of South Korea's major cities.

As a motorsport fan, I think people are far better off sticking with national racing series these days. Better access and often better racing. Just less helicopters, big names and screens.

#14 GSiebert

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 14:23

I have been to Magny Cours twice (2007 & 2008) only because I had free tickets, and the experience was truly awful.
You got to be there very early to get a decent position to watch the race and because of the traffic jam, then you wait hours, seated behind a fence (you cant move or you'll lose your hard-earned seat) for a race that's a total snoozefest where you spend more time looking at the big tv screen to understand the strategies than at the cars themselves. In 2008 I even left after the last round of pitstops to avoid the traffic jam. I wouldn't even go back if I had free tickets again, I can't imagine even paying for this. :lol:

Compared to that, for 80€ you have a weekend ticket + paddock access to the World Superbike event, there are practice sessions or (not boring) races every 20 minutes, you can go in whichever grandstand you want or meet the riders in the paddock... Last year you also had access to the track on Thursday, you could attend to the press conference, have a walk in the pitlane, watch the crews setting everything up before the first practices ... That is what attending to a motorsport event is all about and makes it different from watching it from TV in my opinion. You can't have that in F1 unless you're willing to pay 6000€.

#15 Sakae

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 14:28

Tickets of all major professional sports are going up, but then, as long as one man with two kids earnes $50k, and the other one earns $20 Mill, then someone has to pay for a rich man, because he "deserves that", and is "worth it". At the end, investors and speculators "must" get their return on somebody's back one way or another.

Edited by Sakae, 16 August 2012 - 14:30.


#16 D.M.N.

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 14:28

Just so we're clear, the Bernie/Sky quote is from May 2011....

#17 intothepits

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 14:33

It's exactly that... F1 this year became even more money driven.

and say what you will about the whole Sky UK issue, but it has totally been a factor in people turning off F1, and actually decreased ticket sales.

There is no possible way that whole moving over to Sky was a positive, sure it earned Berny more money, yet its just going nowhere.... I give it two years before it goes back to full free tv.

On top of that, youve had good decent drivers shafted out of the sport down to money the teams are needing, and this really does not wash down with people! Along with this whole cheesey interviews on the podium, it's no wonder people are turning off and not buying tickets.

Edited by intothepits, 16 August 2012 - 14:39.


#18 Buttoneer

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 14:41

It's the same with music really. Live gigs for the big players are silly money. £150 for a crappy Madonna concert at the back of a football stadium, versus £10 for three local acts in the local pub, one of which will usually be brilliant. And better beer.

Just go watch some club racing with some mates and I bet you have a far better time.

#19 Seanspeed

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 14:45

"Why isn't F1 popular in the states?"

I never went myself, but most people who went to the Indy events all praised the affordability and the view and the general value of the experience.

Unfortunately, they seem to be going the more 'standard' route with Circuit of the Americas charging outrageous prices that your average person perhaps just interested in what all the hub-ub is about is gonna look at and laugh. And apparently some GA views are on a downhill slope(going away from the track)! lol

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#20 F1ultimate

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 14:52

Good read, but it's what we've been saying as fans for years. You can only keep rinsing Joe Public for so long before he votes with his feet and decides to do something else with his hard earned money.

F1 still has a elitist vibe, you only had to look at what was being shown on the big screens at Silverstone whilst qualifying was rained off. Whilst the paying public were enjoying seeing absolutely nothing on track but falling water whilst getting soaked, the big screens were showing non-paying corporate guests, smiling, laughing and enjoying a free, five star lunch.

The divide between the grandstands and the paddock is just getting bigger, and unless our lord and master Mr Ecclestone wakes up and realises, Grand Prix won't be much good to hold if no one can afford to go and see them.


The Olympics were no different. How many of the spectators who watched Usain Bolt run 100m and 200m do you think were tax paying UK citizens? Half those tickets went to Sponsors, The Olympic Family and coporate back scratchers. Football is probably the only mass sport that's accessible to the wide society at an attainable cost.

#21 Clatter

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 14:59

The Olympics were no different. How many of the spectators who watched Usain Bolt run 100m and 200m do you think were tax paying UK citizens? Half those tickets went to Sponsors, The Olympic Family and coporate back scratchers. Football is probably the only mass sport that's accessible to the wide society at an attainable cost.


Have you seen how much it costs to watch a football match these days?

#22 pingu666

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 15:04

well a few years ago me and my dad went to the 6hours at silverstone, i was lucky to get a deal, two tickets for 28quid. 2-3 day tickets with open grandstands, and paddock access.

I think the normal price was 24quid per ticket.

i do wonder if at some point itll reach a point where alot of people will go, no ill not spend that, and suddenly we lose 50% of the plebs

#23 Fastcake

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 15:05

Essentially everything's too expensive and anyone who could change it doesn't want to, as they want their slice of the cash. No one cares that we can barely afford anything nowadays, at least not until the income dries up.

#24 Red17

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 15:08

Have you seen how much it costs to watch a football match these days?

I agree, football is also milking it's fans, and worse, you really can't hide or dismantle those stands like on tracks. The bubble burst will be much worse.

#25 uffen

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 15:46

The TV audience is one thing but having fans in the seats is important. When I watch a race and see acres of empty stands it makes it appear that the race is unimportant and the sport unpopular - this has to affect the casual, or emerging fan.
F1 is definately pricing itself out of the market. As one commentor said, "reasonable" prices, please.

#26 PorcupineTroy

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 15:48

The reason for Montreal not selling out is likely down to the student protests at the time.

#27 Clatter

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 15:52

The TV audience is one thing but having fans in the seats is important. When I watch a race and see acres of empty stands it makes it appear that the race is unimportant and the sport unpopular - this has to affect the casual, or emerging fan.
F1 is definately pricing itself out of the market. As one commentor said, "reasonable" prices, please.


Of course it's important. Without them the circuit would have no income and having the race would be worthless.

#28 undersquare

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 15:52

i do wonder if at some point itll reach a point where alot of people will go, no ill not spend that, and suddenly we lose 50% of the plebs

Yeah I think it could easily suddenly drop, become unfashionable. Lose some atmosphere and then have less appeal and so on round and round. Empty seats leaving fans wondering if it was smart to pay so much. People decide they can't this year and then never go back.

I could also see the teams that don't rely on conventional sponsors taking over at the top and making it a 2-horse race every year.

#29 Clatter

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 15:54

The reason for Montreal not selling out is likely down to the student protests at the time.


Why?

I thought most circuits do not sell tickets at the door and that all purchases are in advance.

#30 Slowinfastout

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 16:03

Why?

I thought most circuits do not sell tickets at the door and that all purchases are in advance.


The student protest thing was THE big issue in the province from about mid-February. It definitely played a role, the media kept hammering the possible threat to the GP in a 15mins loop for weeks, otherwise the race would have been sold-out as usual.

It was almost sold-out regardless, so it's a bit dishonest to include it in that list. I think it's one of the healthier event on the calendar.

(also, they do sell tickets at the gates)

Edited by Slowinfastout, 16 August 2012 - 16:04.


#31 7MGTEsup

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 16:06

While people keep turning up and emptying their wallets into their coffers they will keep on charging what they want. If you want to get anything done EVERYONE has to vote with their feet. If they hold a race and only 1000 spectators turn up they will have to start doing something and untill that happens it will just carry on the way it is. Complaining won't do anything you just have to walk away and if enough people do then they will have to do something as they won't be able to afford the diamond tiara for their wife come Christmas time. Once they realise their cash cow is now decomposing on their lawn they might actually get off their fat overpayed and over privaliged arses and do something. But I don't see it ever happaning because most people like to complain and then do jack shit about it.

#32 ArnageWRC

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 16:38

Go and have a look at the prices for the WEC 6 Hours of Silverstone. It is a FiA World Championship.
This weekend (Thurs- Sun) sees the British MX GP at Matterley Basin near Winchester...look at the prices. Not all top class Motorsport is expensive.

On the other hand, the organisers of RallyGB defend their World Rally pass price of over £130 as similar to the F1 GP ticket price.

Circuits & fans don't have to pay....imagine Germany, Belgium, Spain, Italy & Britain saying no to Bernie....

#33 Clatter

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 16:42

While people keep turning up and emptying their wallets into their coffers they will keep on charging what they want. If you want to get anything done EVERYONE has to vote with their feet. If they hold a race and only 1000 spectators turn up they will have to start doing something and untill that happens it will just carry on the way it is. Complaining won't do anything you just have to walk away and if enough people do then they will have to do something as they won't be able to afford the diamond tiara for their wife come Christmas time. Once they realise their cash cow is now decomposing on their lawn they might actually get off their fat overpayed and over privaliged arses and do something. But I don't see it ever happaning because most people like to complain and then do jack shit about it.


What it requires is unified action by the circuits. This isn't going to happen because they all have different contracts that do not come up at the same time which prevents collective bargaining.

#34 BackOnTop

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 16:50

The cost paid for being a F1 fan is really getting exorbitant. It has simply to do with 2 basic charges applied by Fom, Fia & Bernie- one is the Circuit Hosting Fee and the other is Broadcasting Fee. These two are directly related to fans and spectators.... and these two are the main areas where Bernie is milking and holding F1 fans to ransom.

These two have an adverse effect on food prices at the circuit, hotel and accommodation as they need to recover some money back. So getting ripped off continues well after the race is over if one is visiting the circuit for a race.

If they were reasonable, so would have been the ticket prices as well as TV subscription. On top of that, F1 management simply cuts off the fans as garbage by not even letting past races be available on several media outlet for access, even if one wants to buy dvd's of past races. The mentality is to treat everyone but the elite as just a number, which do come across as rude. It is natural that everything will become expensive as time goes on, but it should still remain affordable in relation to income earned. If the take it or leave it mentality remains, then the stands will remain empty in the future.

For example, in India, 25 cricket stadiums (state associations) are under a rotational list of BCCI (country admin) and hold domestic and international matches throughout the year on a rotation basis. Again, the stadium is paid a huge fixed amount for hosting these matches, and therefore, these stadiums don't have the need to rip off the fans. A ticket for a regular match is about $5-$70 in Delhi.... which goes to about $20-$150 for almost 80% of the stands during showcase events like World Cups etc.

I wonder why Bernie can't do the same and look to earn revenue like how BCCI manages to do with equal amount of viewership, sponsors etc. Below is how BCCI pays it's 25 Associations (read 20 Race circuits) .


BCCI declares Rs1.63bn profit in 2010-11: Reports
http://www.sportzpow...2010-11-reports

The BCCI has made a net profit of Rs 1.63 billion during the financial year 2010-11, BCCI sources said on Monday after the working committee meeting. BCCI earns a major chunk of its revenue from sale of broadcast rights and sponsorship besides the franchise fee from IPL.

The sources added that the net profit would have been to the tune of Rs 2.6 billion had ICC World Cup under the previous financial year. Income from ICC WC, which ended on 2 April, would get computed only at the end of the current financial year.

At the meeting, the BCCI also decided that each of its 25 state associations would get Rs 240 million to Rs 270 million as subsidy money.







#35 BackOnTop

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 16:55

BCCI declares Rs1.63bn profit in 2010-11: Reports
http://www.sportzpow...2010-11-reports

At the meeting, the BCCI also decided that each of its 25 state associations would get Rs 240 million to Rs 270 million as subsidy money.

Why is it that Bernie 'Charges' circuits to hold races while BCCI manages to 'pay' stadiums for hosting matches.

So basically, if all 20 race circuits in the world refuse to host and pay Bernie after their contract finishes... their will be no Formula 1. Hmmm... I see the future now, where even PR nations like in the Middle east don't need F1 anymore & don't feel the need to host races any longer.

Edited by BackOnTop, 16 August 2012 - 17:02.


#36 Clatter

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 16:58

Why is it that Bernie 'Charges' circuits to hold races while BCCI manages to 'pay' stadiums for hosting matches.


Why would you pay if someone is willing to pay you?


#37 Red17

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 16:58

That's another part of the problem, a big chunk of the money doesn't go into Formula 1. But teams and tracks can't seem to even turn their eyes from the ground.

#38 BackOnTop

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 17:10

Why would you pay if someone is willing to pay you?

True... just like the Mafia, pay the big boss if you wish to do business in the area, even if the businessman is running at huge losses. So to pay the boss, he has no other option but to charge the customer double of what he should be paying in reality. The customers is forced to buy the goods as there is no other option in that whole country.

Well, there is 19 other options, but he'd need to catch a plane to the next grocery store (read F1 race). And the irony is, he'd get ripped off there too. Nice.

Edited by BackOnTop, 16 August 2012 - 17:15.


#39 Alx09

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 17:13

What I wonder is, who is taking all the money? The insane prices each GP pay - mainly into pockets of whoever owns F1?

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#40 loki

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 18:44

What I wonder is, who is taking all the money? The insane prices each GP pay - mainly into pockets of whoever owns F1?



FOM and Formula 1 owners CVC. Welcome to capitalism, ladies and gentlemen. They have a product that has demand and they'll charge what the market will bear. When the market wanes, they can adjust accordingly or lose the business.

#41 Bloggsworth

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 18:55

Bernie doesn't care, and why should he. He has contracts in place that will see him to his grave, he has no need to drop his prices, if anyone drops out, you can bet the contracts say he still gets paid, his very own PFI. He has pulled the nascent pop-group scam, but on a Billion $ scale, The sport pays for everything, the TV providers pay for everything, Bernie gives the money to his daughters in order that they might buy their rock-crystal baths and gold-plated samoyeds...

#42 Clatter

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 19:03

Bernie doesn't care, and why should he. He has contracts in place that will see him to his grave, he has no need to drop his prices, if anyone drops out, you can bet the contracts say he still gets paid, his very own PFI. He has pulled the nascent pop-group scam, but on a Billion $ scale, The sport pays for everything, the TV providers pay for everything, Bernie gives the money to his daughters in order that they might buy their rock-crystal baths and gold-plated samoyeds...


I wonder if Max still gets the occasional backhander? Afterall he was the one that gave the rights away.


#43 Fastcake

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 19:12

Why is it that Bernie 'Charges' circuits to hold races while BCCI manages to 'pay' stadiums for hosting matches.

So basically, if all 20 race circuits in the world refuse to host and pay Bernie after their contract finishes... their will be no Formula 1. Hmmm... I see the future now, where even PR nations like in the Middle east don't need F1 anymore & don't feel the need to host races any longer.



It's essentially derived from the days individual circuits had a lot more power over their grands prix, when the championship was much less strictly governed. Since teams didn't have to turn up, the promoters paid starting and prize money to encourage entries. As what normally happens when people get hold of money with little oversight however, they got greedy and payments were often a pittance to the small entrants and sometimes slashed from the advertised price. Hence, the teams all clubbed together under Bernie to demand a guaranteed payment up front which was then split up accordingly, which then led to direct contracts with promoters and the end to any independence they still had. That payment of course became the current sanctioning fee when Bernie got full control over the rights. There, your two minute history course :)

And yes, theoretically it would be the end of F1. However, Bernie would negotiate a more acceptable contract or find some new places to race once contracts come to their end, as he always has done. It's their own fault for accepting such high prices in the first place, but if they want it to reduce they'll have to accept the possibility of losing the race. Up to them.

#44 FerrariFanInTexas

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 20:56

What I wonder is, who is taking all the money? The insane prices each GP pay - mainly into pockets of whoever owns F1?


I believe half (give or take a few percentage points) is distributed to the teams based on some formula in the Concorde Agreement. Bernie and CVC keep the rest.

#45 chrisblades85

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 21:33

I didn't go to the British G.P this year for the 1st time in ten years. Main reason was cost. I've never had a grandstand seat, I've always had general admission. This year it was £159 for the cheapest weekend ticket. That just gets you in.

I went to Snetterton the other weekend for F3 and GT. Cost £17 for a whole days racing. Fair enough it was quite a distance to get there. But 4 of us, tenner each fuel. Spent an extra tenner there on food, drink etc. £40 quid for the whole day. Which could of been cheaper if we'd gone to Donnington and took our own food and drink.

We're going back to Silverstone next year though as we miss the whole weekend. Beer and F1 from Thursday to Sunday. Suckers really.

#46 BigCHrome

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 22:41

Yep, fans are getting ripped off just so Bernie can pocket millions and the teams can keep the status quo.

The fans are the ones who watch dull fake racing, they are the ones who are paying ridiculous ticket prices for a mediocre product and there is nothing we can do about it.

#47 loki

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 23:50

I wonder if Max still gets the occasional backhander?


From those dominatrix gals?....


#48 Laffite

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 02:26

Let me put Brazil figures on it..
I was a regular live spectator in Interlagos, back in the nineties until 2001.
I´ve following this sport for almost three decades but I will never return to Interlagos. Prices are very expensive by now. I can afford to buy but is it really worth the value?

Cheapest tickets for race day are around R$ 600-700, or 300-350 US$ dollars, which stand for 50% of the average wage of a Brazilian (around R$ 1.400). And no numbered seats, so you have to exit the circuit on Saturdat after qualify and immediately stand in line for the Sunday opening gate if you are supposed to get a decent place to watch the race (and no cover as well, so be prepared to face all kind of weather).

We need new facilities in Brazil, away from the chaotic São Paulo, if we intend to keep the GP. But the circuit layout is not bad anyway..






#49 teejay

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 03:39

Basketball.

Yes, this will begin with a post about basketball.

For 220 dollars Aus (and since we are at parity, 220 US) I can use this

www.nba.tv

Every single game on demand, every single game live, in full HD.

Why F1 does not have the same deal astounds me.

Every person wanting this experience will be able to watch the races the way they want. It is a new advertising stream etc etc.

Somemthing needs to change.

#50 Jimisgod

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 04:11

What I wonder is, who is taking all the money? The insane prices each GP pay - mainly into pockets of whoever owns F1?


http://www.news.com....8-1226298931082

Right there.