19 replies to this topic

[Emery0323]

The RM Auction House sold one of the original Gulf GT40/Mirages this weekend, Identified in the catalog as GT40 #1074, Formerly Mirage #10003 for $10M:



This is the 1967 Spa Winner (Ickx / Thompson) and 1968 Monza Winner (Hobbs/Hawkins).

http://www.rmauction...?...&CarID=r176


I've seen conflicting accounts of which Mirages became GT40s - Did 1075 also start life as a Mirage?

It's interesting to note that the auctioneer says "Well done, Rob!" at the end - Is "Rob" Rob Walton of Wal-Mart Fame, who owns 1075?

[D-Type]

According to an article by Doug Nye in Historic Race & Rally July/August 1992

One existing Mirage M1 from 1967 (chassis 'M.10003') was converted back to GT40 specification as 'GT40P/1074'. A second car was built new to similar spec with matching Mirage chassis lightening modifications to the forward part of its standard production tub, becoming 'GT40P/1075'

He goes on to explain that this differs fromwhat Ronnie Spain had written, namely that '1075' was basedon 'M.100003' while '1074' was based on 'M10002'.

Doug cited detailed discussions with John Horsman, who had worked with John Wyer at JW Automotive, who had stated categorically that chassis 'M.10002' had been scrapped following the 1967 Nurburgring accident. and that 1075 was new from the ground up.

I don't know if there is now a current consensus view

Edited by D-Type, 20 August 2012 - 17:57.

[hipperson]

Mirage M10002 is in the ROFGO collection ?
Saw it last week...it will be on display at Salon Prive beginning of September

Edited by hipperson, 20 August 2012 - 18:04.

[hipperson]

I thought 1074 was owned/still is by the chap who bought the 007 Aston DB5...Harry Yeaggy..banker with a museum in the US

[Emery0323]

Doug cited detailed discussions with John Horsman, who had worked with John Wyer at JW Automotive, who had stated categorically that chassis 'M.10002' had been scrapped following the 1967 Nurburgring accident. and that 1075 was new from the ground up.

That seems to agree with at least one magazine article from 1969 that I recall seeing, which indicated that 1075 was brand-new, and not a converted Mirage.

I have photos from the Monterey Historics in 2003 where Rob Walton had displayed 1075. As displayed at that event, it had a chassis plate stamped "M10003" on the doorjamb. There was also an information placard with the car in the paddock display which stated that 1075 and M10003 are the same car. This seems to disagree with other material I've read.

If Rob Walton did buy 1074 this weekend, maybe that ends all doubt that he owns M10003.

[D-Type]

I can never under understand people placing any reliance on chassis plates as they are far far easier to reproduce/clone/fake than almost any part of a car. Stampings on a chassis member are marginally more trustworthy, particularly if they are somewhere only an expert will know where to look. On the other hand, the absence of a chassis plate or markings is more suspicious.

The only convincing evidence if someone who worked on the cars back in the day, who has no vested interest in the car today, can recognise a unique feature - preferably more than one. And even then, we mustn't forget that memory gets progressively less reliable with time.

On the memory front, I was positive that I recalled a particular car which was apple green being resprayed royal blue. But the present owner of the car, which has unshakeable provenance, assures me that he found no trace of blue paint when stripping it back to bare metal in the course of restorstion.

[hipperson]

Apple Green.....I wonder if you refer to 1003 ?

[D-Type]

Apple Green.....I wonder if you refer to 1003 ?

No, not a distinguished car at all - a Healey Silverstone. I only mentioned it to confirm the fallibility of memory from personal experience.

[fbarrett]

The buyer was Greg Miller, son of the late Larry Miller, the Ford collector from Salt Lake City, Utah, who helps to support the Shelby American Collection in Boulder, Colorado.

[Emery0323]

The buyer was Greg Miller, son of the late Larry Miller, the Ford collector from Salt Lake City, Utah, who helps to support the Shelby American Collection in Boulder, Colorado.

That's good to know - The car will likely spend some time on display to the public, rather than disappearing into a private collection where it would rarely be seen.

[Duc-Man]

For some reason I always thought that the M1s were origanally Ford GT40s that were converted into Mirages.

[jjordan]

I was never much of a Ford guy growing up (long story and not all that interesting) BUT if you are ever near Salt Lake City and Miller Motorsports Park, it is worth the time to view the Miller collection. All i can say is WOW!

[Tuboscocca]

For some reason I always thought that the M1s were origanally Ford GT40s that were converted into Mirages.

I was (am) confused too...read yesterday in Ed McDonough's Gulf-Mirage (maybe not the very best source?) the whole story.. The Mirages were developped GT40 designs, and not rebuilt 'old' GT40s..
'1074' began as Mirage and was (forced by sporting rules) 'converted' back to a GT40 with an official chassisnumber. McD cites the conflict of '1075'...built from a sparechassis , not from a Mirage, according to Horsman...(not to Spain)

But 10 millions???

Regards Michael

[elansprint72]

Interesting that the more expensive a type of car becomes, the more clouded the history becomes.

[D-Type]

Interesting that the more expensive a type of car becomes, the more clouded the history becomes.

Or the more examples come out from wherever they've been hiding ;)

[D-Type]

Interesting that the more expensive a type of car becomes, the more clouded the history becomes.

Alternative comment:

Well, if it will sell for 5 times what it costs to restore/re-create/fake one ...

The auctioneer's blurb says this 'entity' could be readily converted back into Mirage #10003. If this were to be done, would there be enough bits left over to form the nucleus of a re-created GT40 #1074?

[Emery0323]

'1074' began as Mirage and was (forced by sporting rules) 'converted' back to a GT40 with an official chassisnumber. McD cites the conflict of '1075'...built from a sparechassis , not from a Mirage, according to Horsman...(not to Spain)

But 10 millions???

One thing to keep in mind is that this particular car resides at the intersection of authentic race history and "celebrity provenance".

It won world-championship races at Spa and Monza, but it was also owned by Steve McQueen's Solar Productions, and was used as a camera car
for the famous "Le Mans" movie.

This auction result does raise the question: In the (very) hypothetical case that either Mirage M10001 or GT40 #1075 were to come up for auction, what prices would they bring?

[Tuboscocca]

One thing to keep in mind is that this particular car resides at the intersection of authentic race history and "celebrity provenance".

It won world-championship races at Spa and Monza, but it was also owned by Steve McQueen's Solar Productions, and was used as a camera car
for the famous "Le Mans" movie.

This auction result does raise the question: In the (very) hypothetical case that either Mirage M10001 or GT40 #1075 were to come up for auction, what prices would they bring?

Emery I agree at this point...reminds me, years ago, of an auction of half-empty Coca Cola bottles , once 'owned' by Elvis...

Best regards Michael

[hipperson]

Would anyone argue that the following Ford's are with the Larry Miller family ?


1015
1021
1037
1102
103
J4
...and now 1074/Mirage

[Peter Morley]

That seems to agree with at least one magazine article from 1969 that I recall seeing, which indicated that 1075 was brand-new, and not a converted Mirage.

I have photos from the Monterey Historics in 2003 where Rob Walton had displayed 1075. As displayed at that event, it had a chassis plate stamped "M10003" on the doorjamb. There was also an information placard with the car in the paddock display which stated that 1075 and M10003 are the same car. This seems to disagree with other material I've read.

If Rob Walton did buy 1074 this weekend, maybe that ends all doubt that he owns M10003.

According to the World Registry of Cobras and GT40s the build sheet for P/1074 notes "ex M10003".
It also says that P/1075 was based on a new standard GT40 chassis which was Miragised as it was built and again mentions the build sheet.

If original build sheets exist for these cars (plus articles as you mention) surely they are going to be more reliable than optimistic owner's investigations being carried out some 45 years later?