21 replies to this topic

[simonlewisbooks]

I have some slides from this event and minimal details on who was whom and in what.
Can anyone help with identities ?

The one of the start shows the following cars from right to left.

56 possibly Elva (Mike Mckee) no reg visible. Pale blue
62 could be a Mk1 Lola ( Mike Taylor?) dark green or maybe very dark blue
48 Lotus XI reg could be NAB 444 Green with white stripe and red covers over lights
54 Lotus XI red with white nose band
(two cars in the background unidentifiable possibly both silver or light blu
58 Unknown (Lister???) dark green or black with white stripe
40 Cooper T49 Salvadori in Coombs car
42 (half out of shot) Lotus Xi (Ireland?)

[D-Type]

According to Martin Krejci the result of the 1500cc race was:
(1) Innes Ireland - Lotus (Team Lotus)
(2) Roy Salvadori - Cooper Monaco (John Coombs)
(3) Mike Taylor - Lola
(4) Mike McKee - Elva

And in the over 1500cc race:
(1) Roy Salvadori - Cooper Monaco-Maserati (John Coombs)
(2) Graham Hill - Lotus XV (Team Lotus)
(3) Jim Russel - Cooper Monaco-Climax (Jim Russel)
(4) Ivor Bueb - Lister-Jaguar (Lister Engineering)
(5) Bruce Halford - Lister-Jaguar (Lister Engineering)
- Bill Moss - Lister-Jaguar

O don't think that #58 was a Lister as no Lister was only 1.5 litre (as far as I know)

[simonlewisbooks]

Yes that was the only source of info I could find too - sadly it doesn't have race numbers.

You are no doubt correct about the Lister, the car in the photo is very odd (ugly) looking and reminded me of the early bodied Bristol & AJB engined versions - which weren't pretty...

[Dutchy]

Could it be a Willment?

[Ted Walker]

Simon dont you have a copy of the C Palace book in stock ???????

[Alan Cox]

After consultation of Autosport's report of the meeting, it looks like the start of heat 1 of the Anerley Trophy (up to 1500cc). They report that Mckee led the first lap from Salvadori and Ireland. The final was led from start to finish by Ireland, who would surely have been on the front row. The over 1500 cc race was for the Norbury Trophy and was littered with Knobbly and Costin Listers, as well as John Ewer's Chevrolet Corvette.

PS The Crystal Palace book doesn't even mention the up to 1500cc race, Ted

[simonlewisbooks]

Simon dont you have a copy of the C Palace book in stock ???????

Nope..... not the Philip Parfitt one nor the 2 volume 'Record of...' I'm afraid.

[Roger Clark]

Roy Salvadori won three races that day. Pity he was only any good on airfield circuits.

[simonlewisbooks]

After consultation of Autosport's report of the meeting, it looks like the start of heat 1 of the Anerley Trophy (up to 1500cc). They report that Mckee led the first lap from Salvadori and Ireland.

So that would tend to confim it's McKee's Elva up front in this photo.

Wonder why Salvadori and Ireland are at the back here? Surely a random or even reverse grid draw rather than the normal one based on practice times?

[Paul Parker]

Roy Salvadori won three races that day. Pity he was only any good on airfield circuits.

Anything further removed from an airfield circuit in Britain than Crystal Palace would be hard to imagine.

Yes he was very, very quick around Silverstone and pretty good at Sebring too but I think your statement is somewhat OTT if you don't mind me saying so. For the record he finished 4th at Zandvoort and 2nd in the German GP during 1958, albeit helped by attrition in the latter and he had matched Brabham in '57/58.

Yes he didn't like Dundrod but overall like so many of his era he was unlucky enough to be racing in the era of Ascari, Fangio, Moss, Brooks et al, and most of his significant rivals were significantly younger bar Fangio/Ascari. He also of course suffered a very near fatal accident at Silverstone in 1951 which must have had some long term deleterious effects.

So I think he deserves rather more credit for his very long and frequently very successful career.

[Roger Clark]

Anything further removed from an airfield circuit in Britain than Crystal Palace would be hard to imagine.

Yes he was very, very quick around Silverstone and pretty good at Sebring too but I think your statement is somewhat OTT if you don't mind me saying so. For the record he finished 4th at Zandvoort and 2nd in the German GP during 1958, albeit helped by attrition in the latter and he had matched Brabham in '57/58.

Yes he didn't like Dundrod but overall like so many of his era he was unlucky enough to be racing in the era of Ascari, Fangio, Moss, Brooks et al, and most of his significant rivals were significantly younger bar Fangio/Ascari. He also of course suffered a very near fatal accident at Silverstone in 1951 which must have had some long term deleterious effects.

So I think he deserves rather more credit for his very long and frequently very successful career.

I know. My statement was meant to be ironic; sorry if it failed.

[Doug Nye]

It didn't fail Roger. Paul just spends too much time in Switzerland, tee hee.

DCN

[Alan Cox]

It didn't fail Roger. Paul just spends too much time in Switzerland, tee hee.
DCN

[D-Type]

The Motor Sport report says the 1500cc race was poorly supported and that only Ireland's Lotus XV and Salvadori's Cooper Monaco were 1500s, all the other entries being 1100s. Might they have started from the back of the grid to 'make a race' of their heat?

[alfredaustria]

The photo is definitely from the up to 1500 ccm race.

Some starting numbers from the over 1500 ccm race:

# 66 Bruce Halford
# 75 Graham Hill
# 77 Jim Russell

[pete53]

As taken from the programme ....

Heat 1
40 R.Salvadori Cooper Climax
42 I.Ireland Lotus Climax
48 P.Riley Lotus Climax
50 A.Aubrey Lotus Climax
52 G.Lambert Lotus Climax
54 R.Dutt Lotus Climax
56 T.Dickson Elva Climax
58 R.Ham Elva Climax
60 M.Taylor Lola Climax
62 A.Hegbourne Tojeiro Climax

Heat 2
41 S.Ouvaroff Willment Climax
43 A.Stacey Lotus Climax
45 D.Randall Lotus Climax
47 A.Rees Lotus Climax
49 R.Prior Lotus Climax
51 M.Wills Lotus Climax
53 C.Bristow Lotus Climax
55 E.Hine Lotus Climax
57 J.Brown Elva Climax
59 P.Ashdown Lola Climax
63 I.Raby Cooper Climax

[Roger Clark]

Was the picture taken before or after the start? Salvadori was on pole but could be coming through to take up his grid position. The cars don't look as though they're racing.

[taylov]

Was the picture taken before or after the start? Salvadori was on pole but could be coming through to take up his grid position. The cars don't look as though they're racing.

My copy of the programme has the grids and lap charts filled in.

The grid for Heat One was

40 (Pole) - 56 - 48 - 62

58 - 54 - 50

42 - (52 NS) - 60

Salvadori was in 2nd place for 2 laps, led laps 3 to 5, then was overtaken by Innes Ireland (42) who won the heat.


The 15-lap Final grid was

42 (Pole) - 40 - 56 - 60

53 - 57 - 53

63 - 47 - 48 - (51 NS)

(55 NS) - 54 - 58

50


Innes led throughout, but the lap chart suggests that Salvadori started at the back or stalled on the grid as he was 7th or lower on lap 2, 4th on lap 3, third on Lap 4 and 2nd by lap 5, where he remained race long.

Tony

Edited by taylov, 22 August 2012 - 14:11.

[Paul Parker]

It didn't fail Roger. Paul just spends too much time in Switzerland, tee hee.

DCN

You swine Nye!

[Paul Parker]

I know. My statement was meant to be ironic; sorry if it failed.

Apologies, irony function offline.

[RAP]

Tony
The grids agree with what I have in "A Record of Motor Racing at Crystal Palace" except Ht 1 55 should be 58, I guess a typo, but thanks for the info that 51 & 55 were dns in final, I didn't know that.
Richard Page (author)

[taylov]

Tony
The grids agree with what I have in "A Record of Motor Racing at Crystal Palace" except Ht 1 55 should be 58, I guess a typo, but thanks for the info that 51 & 55 were dns in final, I didn't know that.
Richard Page (author)

Yes, should be 58, of course.

What a great meeting this must have been. As well as the 2 heats and final for the sportscars, the event was headlined by the London Trophy Formula 2 race over 36 laps with the very best of British F2 drivers - George Wicken; Ivor Bueb (who was to lose his life from injuries received in an accident that July); Salvadori; Jim Russell (on pole), Ian Raby, Trevor Taylor; Chris Bristow; Alan Stacey; Ireland; Bruce Halford; David Piper etc.

Alas, I didn't see my first race at the Palace until two years later.

Tony