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N Piquet Jr criticises 'weak' and 'lucky' Lotus duo [split]


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#151 SpaMaster

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 19:17

What he said:

"Sure he (Grosjean) has improved a lot but there is no phenomenon."

What you said:

"He assumes it is the same Grosjean as in 2009".

You made that up. I pointed it out to you. Moving on.

What he said:
"His luck is that he was not doing well in F1, another season of GP2, landed a sponsorship deal and returned to F1 paying, right? Then things went right for, how do you say, in his career. The timing was very good for him."
His 'not doing well in F1' 2009 season was the basis for his luck comment.

What I said:
"He assumes it is the same Grosjean as in 2009".

What he also said, but does not have anything to do with his comment about being lucky:
"Sure he (Grosjean) has improved a lot but there is no phenomenon."

You made misleading unrelated inferences. Now move on.

Edited by SpaMaster, 23 August 2012 - 19:18.


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#152 DonaldDuck

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 19:23

Then Kimi should alter his driving style in order to generate the necessary heat. The onus is on him after all, but I suspect that you and others would like the team to go on a wild goose chase in figuring out what is wrong with the car that causes him these issues.

Again, what does Alonso have to do with this? This is about Kimi...


Okay Ill explain you like this.

Every driver has a driving style which suits them the most. As you are aware, the drivers set up their cars on Fridays and Saturdays for the Race and qualy. Once you setup your car for qualy, you cant change it for the race. Kimi has a less aggressive driving style. He turns in smoothly and likes a responding rear to exit the apex. Kimi is not the kind who makes major steering inputs unlike Fernando. He is a driver who thrives in the art of minimalism input. He likes to keep the steering at a degree where the car is dancing on the edge. This style makes him what he is. This style makes him one of the fastest drivers in the world. You can go and watch the flying lap where they discussed driving styles and the driver coach mentioned kimi is the quickest on one lap. As with every human, there are strenghts and weaknesses to a particular style. With Kimi, in order to keep the balance on the optimum, he has to forego qualy pace. Since he is gentle on his tyres, it becomes difficult to extract heat on one lap pace as compared to other aggressive drives. But the same style allows him to go super quick in the races. He can pound fastest lap after fastest lap without disturbing his tyres. Stats prove me right with the number of fastest laps he had. And the last race is a testament to what I am trying to get you to understand. So its not always about supreme qualy pace. Kimi is mature, he knows he can qualify at the top, but that will really hinder his chances in the race. So you look for a balance. Thats why you hear so many drivers saying they are loking for the best balance. balance is defined under Formula 1 terms as the give and take between race pace and qualy pace. You take some, you lose some, in the end the perfect balance sets you up for the race.

I think this Kimi generate heat into tyres is over exaggerated by Alonso fans. Thats why I take a hit on Alonso. There is nothing wrong in Kimis qualy pace. He himself trades it for a better race pace. Just coz he might not generate enough heat doesnt mean he is not quick. It is coz he choses not to adapt to such a setup. What he needs is a setup which will allow him to generate heat into tyres and retain the balance in the race too. And looking at the last race, they are getting there.

#153 SpaMaster

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 19:24

As I've said the onus is on the driver to make the necessary adjustments in order to get the best out of the machinery.

No, not really. When the car suits better for another driver by default based on his innate driving styles, it is not equal footing anymore. Of course, one can adjust and you can do a marvellous job of adjusting. Still it is not as good as have something fit like a glove for the other driver.

#154 Ferrari2183

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 20:00

Okay Ill explain you like this.

Every driver has a driving style which suits them the most. As you are aware, the drivers set up their cars on Fridays and Saturdays for the Race and qualy. Once you setup your car for qualy, you cant change it for the race. Kimi has a less aggressive driving style. He turns in smoothly and likes a responding rear to exit the apex. Kimi is not the kind who makes major steering inputs unlike Fernando. He is a driver who thrives in the art of minimalism input. He likes to keep the steering at a degree where the car is dancing on the edge. This style makes him what he is. This style makes him one of the fastest drivers in the world. You can go and watch the flying lap where they discussed driving styles and the driver coach mentioned kimi is the quickest on one lap. As with every human, there are strenghts and weaknesses to a particular style. With Kimi, in order to keep the balance on the optimum, he has to forego qualy pace. Since he is gentle on his tyres, it becomes difficult to extract heat on one lap pace as compared to other aggressive drives. But the same style allows him to go super quick in the races. He can pound fastest lap after fastest lap without disturbing his tyres. Stats prove me right with the number of fastest laps he had. And the last race is a testament to what I am trying to get you to understand. So its not always about supreme qualy pace. Kimi is mature, he knows he can qualify at the top, but that will really hinder his chances in the race. So you look for a balance. Thats why you hear so many drivers saying they are loking for the best balance. balance is defined under Formula 1 terms as the give and take between race pace and qualy pace. You take some, you lose some, in the end the perfect balance sets you up for the race.

I think this Kimi generate heat into tyres is over exaggerated by Alonso fans. Thats why I take a hit on Alonso. There is nothing wrong in Kimis qualy pace. He himself trades it for a better race pace. Just coz he might not generate enough heat doesnt mean he is not quick. It is coz he choses not to adapt to such a setup. What he needs is a setup which will allow him to generate heat into tyres and retain the balance in the race too. And looking at the last race, they are getting there.

You're not going to convince me that Kimi forgoes quali for the race, rather a suitable compromise is reached. And for the record balance in formula 1 terms is the balancing act a driver has to contend with regard the front and rear downforce levels for a given style.

Anyway, the really great drivers adapt their styles to different situations and are thus fast in a wider range if conditions than an average driver.

I like Kimi, but let's not sweep his adaptability issues under a rug.

Ps. If you're happy with Kimi's qualifying performances then that's great. I certainly wouldn't be happy if I were a fan.

#155 Skinnyguy

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 21:01

I like Kimi, but let's not sweep his adaptability issues under a rug.


One poor year in a 10 years career, with lots of different cars, aero regulations, tyre types and brands, and suddenly you have "adaptability issues"? Sorry but that´s moronic.

#156 Lazy Prodigy

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 21:05

What PK really meant to say was that Alonso's dong is quite big what Kimi and RoGro's is tiny.

#157 DarkknightRises

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 01:21

You're not going to convince me that Kimi forgoes quali for the race, rather a suitable compromise is reached. And for the record balance in formula 1 terms is the balancing act a driver has to contend with regard the front and rear downforce levels for a given style.

Anyway, the really great drivers adapt their styles to different situations and are thus fast in a wider range if conditions than an average driver.

I like Kimi, but let's not sweep his adaptability issues under a rug.

Ps. If you're happy with Kimi's qualifying performances then that's great. I certainly wouldn't be happy if I were a fan.


i dont know why you claim he aint adapting well~~ when he was driving with handicapped steering!!


#158 Ferrari2183

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 06:56

One poor year in a 10 years career, with lots of different cars, aero regulations, tyre types and brands, and suddenly you have "adaptability issues"? Sorry but that´s moronic.

Quit the tunnel vision please. Kimi has had trouble adjusting to certain things, whether that be generating the necessary heat in the tyres, steering issues, suspension geometries.

You hardly hear drivers like Schumacher (1st career), Alonso and Hamilton having such issues. They just get in the car and get on with business.

#159 Menace

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 07:21

Quit the tunnel vision please. Kimi has had trouble adjusting to certain things, whether that be generating the necessary heat in the tyres, steering issues, suspension geometries.

You hardly hear drivers like Schumacher (1st career), Alonso and Hamilton having such issues. They just get in the car and get on with business.


:lol:

Complete nonsense.

They, especially Michael and Alonso have very specific requests/needs that they wanted from the setup and the car. Without that, they can be good but not as good as with it.

Nice try. :lol:

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#160 Menace

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 07:22

You attempt to simplify something that both the driver and the teams have spoken of, and rubbish it as excuses. Especially a driver that never makes excuses and takes responsobility even for the mistakes of his team?

Who do YOU think you are convincing with your simplistic argument? :stoned:

Edited by Menace, 24 August 2012 - 07:24.


#161 DonaldDuck

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 07:35

Quit the tunnel vision please. Kimi has had trouble adjusting to certain things, whether that be generating the necessary heat in the tyres, steering issues, suspension geometries.

You hardly hear drivers like Schumacher (1st career), Alonso and Hamilton having such issues. They just get in the car and get on with business.


Just because you dont hear any issues about them doesnt mean that all is pleasant sun shine for them all the time. You dont work in the pit lane with these guys, do you ? We take ffor granted whatever little news we read in the papers and the websites. Little do we know that those who are writing such stories have not much to share. A tiny piece of information flows and we generalise such information to be the gospel truth.
Much has been said and written about Raikkoenen by people with different propaganda. During his Mclaren days I used hear stories that he was a car breaker. What happened to that one ? Are you basing your judgment on such people's opinion ? One should always try to find out with his own eyes. And dig deeper. Just because Stella says in the press that Alonso has no weaknesses doesnt mean that he is perfect. Stella said that in utter admiration. He did not want to link anything coz there is no need for people to know about his weaknesses. That way a team protects his driver and promotes him in the eyes of the people to attract positive vibes. Very seldom will you find teams admitting a certain fact about thier driver in public. What they say in public is very different to what they know is the truth and what they do in private.

Raikkonen comes across as the most honest driver out there about his own performance, and so does Lewis. Lewis is more akin to admitting stuff about his private life, while Raikkonen is completely open about his driving and things related. Thats why you read that Raikkonen said something about his mistakes, or set up issues in papers. He talks his heart out. And when a top lad like Kimi opens up about his style and mistakes, journos think that gives them a license to pen down any kind of bollocks remotely assisted with the Finn. And thats how conspiracy theories start circulating, one day Kimi can adjust his steering, the other day he cant heat up the tyres. Its those journos who think that putting down such stories will get them publicity, and when the fools read it, the journos do get popular and so does their articles. Coz they wrote about Kimi, everyone wants to about Kimi, he is the most popular mystery out there.

Even in Mclaren, Kimi never shyed admitting his mistakes in public. It takes balls of iron to do that, when youre in an atmosphere where nothing but the best is expected off you, and if you fail to deliver youre crucified. We dont live in that atmosphere, we are chilling in our armchairs, the butchers knife is not places on our heads at the level of Formula 1. A guy like Alonso will never claim his mistakes in public like the way Raikkonen does. Coz it matters to him how people think about him, how fans might react and how his stock might get affected. No wonder he keeps tweeting about his fitness regimes. Coz he wants people to know he is working extra hard to win, he wants people to see it. Kimi, on the other hand is beyond this, he doesnt care, he just does it. And when we cant see that, we imagine that he is sipping some beer somewhere and passing out. How foolish! Seeing is believing is one thing, and refusing to believe is another.


#162 Ferrari2183

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 08:24

:lol:

Complete nonsense.

They, especially Michael and Alonso have very specific requests/needs that they wanted from the setup and the car. Without that, they can be good but not as good as with it.

Nice try. :lol:



You attempt to simplify something that both the driver and the teams have spoken of, and rubbish it as excuses. Especially a driver that never makes excuses and takes responsobility even for the mistakes of his team?

Who do YOU think you are convincing with your simplistic argument? :stoned:

Yeah, they may be simplistic but can you refute them? If you can then go ahead... I've seen this happen at Ferrari and now at Lotus and it is frustrating seeing these issues just being swept under the rug by his fan base.

Just because you dont hear any issues about them doesnt mean that all is pleasant sun shine for them all the time. You dont work in the pit lane with these guys, do you ? We take ffor granted whatever little news we read in the papers and the websites. Little do we know that those who are writing such stories have not much to share. A tiny piece of information flows and we generalise such information to be the gospel truth.
Much has been said and written about Raikkoenen by people with different propaganda. During his Mclaren days I used hear stories that he was a car breaker. What happened to that one ? Are you basing your judgment on such people's opinion ? One should always try to find out with his own eyes. And dig deeper. Just because Stella says in the press that Alonso has no weaknesses doesnt mean that he is perfect. Stella said that in utter admiration. He did not want to link anything coz there is no need for people to know about his weaknesses. That way a team protects his driver and promotes him in the eyes of the people to attract positive vibes. Very seldom will you find teams admitting a certain fact about thier driver in public. What they say in public is very different to what they know is the truth and what they do in private.

Raikkonen comes across as the most honest driver out there about his own performance, and so does Lewis. Lewis is more akin to admitting stuff about his private life, while Raikkonen is completely open about his driving and things related. Thats why you read that Raikkonen said something about his mistakes, or set up issues in papers. He talks his heart out. And when a top lad like Kimi opens up about his style and mistakes, journos think that gives them a license to pen down any kind of bollocks remotely assisted with the Finn. And thats how conspiracy theories start circulating, one day Kimi can adjust his steering, the other day he cant heat up the tyres. Its those journos who think that putting down such stories will get them publicity, and when the fools read it, the journos do get popular and so does their articles. Coz they wrote about Kimi, everyone wants to about Kimi, he is the most popular mystery out there.

Even in Mclaren, Kimi never shyed admitting his mistakes in public. It takes balls of iron to do that, when youre in an atmosphere where nothing but the best is expected off you, and if you fail to deliver youre crucified. We dont live in that atmosphere, we are chilling in our armchairs, the butchers knife is not places on our heads at the level of Formula 1. A guy like Alonso will never claim his mistakes in public like the way Raikkonen does. Coz it matters to him how people think about him, how fans might react and how his stock might get affected. No wonder he keeps tweeting about his fitness regimes. Coz he wants people to know he is working extra hard to win, he wants people to see it. Kimi, on the other hand is beyond this, he doesnt care, he just does it. And when we cant see that, we imagine that he is sipping some beer somewhere and passing out. How foolish! Seeing is believing is one thing, and refusing to believe is another.

I don't care about Kimi's honesty or Hamilton and Alonso's for that matter. As Alonso is driving for Ferrari all I care about is results. End of!

Furthermore, I didn't proclaim that Alonso or Hamilton were perfect. These are the guys that make the adjustments necessary to go fast instead of moaning about this issue or that issue.

Anyway, I can see you trying turn this topic and numerous others on this board into an Alonso piss thread so I will refrain from replying to part about Alonso not admitting his mistakes.

#163 Trust

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 10:09

Indeed it's about managing the tyres.

Lewis spoke in Hungary about inducing understeer like JB does during the race to help preserve the tyres.

I think what we're seeing from the both Lotus drivers is an inability by both drivers to manage the tyres correctly one in qualifying and one during the race.

It's not saying that either is bad, with both out of F1 for 2 years they are still getting to grips with the tyres, but it does suggest that the full potential of the car is left untapped.

This all can be said for Button and Lewis, IMO. Lewis can make good use of tyres in qualifying but in the race it's an inability by him to manage tyres correctly(Bahrain). I would say, put Kimi in that McLaren for Bahrain and he would won it easily with his tyre managing skills.

#164 prty

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 10:14

Kimi is not the kind who makes major steering inputs unlike Fernando. He is a driver who thrives in the art of minimalism input. He likes to keep the steering at a degree where the car is dancing on the edge. This style makes him what he is. This style makes him one of the fastest drivers in the world.


Posted Image

Much has been said and written about Raikkoenen by people with different propaganda. During his Mclaren days I used hear stories that he was a car breaker. What happened to that one ? Are you basing your judgment on such people's opinion ? One should always try to find out with his own eyes. And dig deeper.


http://www.lotusf1te...Strawberry.html

Rene Speksnijder:
 We learned that you are a bit more harsh on the engine then Romain. In which way does that affect the car? Furthermore, how do you like the engine to pick-up regarding your use of the throttle?

KR: I have driven the car and used the throttle in the same way all my career. Every driver has his own style of going fast. This is mine. It is maybe a bit harsh, but it remains within the scope of what the Renault engine can take.


You're welcome :)

Edited by prty, 24 August 2012 - 10:19.


#165 Kvothe

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 10:17

This all can be said for Button and Lewis, IMO. Lewis can make good use of tyres in qualifying but in the race it's an inability by him to manage tyres correctly(Bahrain). I would say, put Kimi in that McLaren for Bahrain and he would won it easily with his tyre managing skills.


I highly doubt that in fact had Kimi qualified it in the top ten I would have been surprised, especially considering his position compared to Grosjean in what was the fastest car that weekend.

Lewis qualified that car ahead of where it should have been, just like in Valencia and Monaco and hence why he fell back but was still faster than Button.

I think you have too little appreciation of just how good the Lotus has been on tyres.


#166 DarkknightRises

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 10:19

Yeah, they may be simplistic but can you refute them? If you can then go ahead... I've seen this happen at Ferrari and now at Lotus and it is frustrating seeing these issues just being swept under the rug by his fan base.


I don't care about Kimi's honesty or Hamilton and Alonso's for that matter. As Alonso is driving for Ferrari all I care about is results. End of!

Furthermore, I didn't proclaim that Alonso or Hamilton were perfect. These are the guys that make the adjustments necessary to go fast instead of moaning about this issue or that issue.

Anyway, I can see you trying turn this topic and numerous others on this board into an Alonso piss thread so I will refrain from replying to part about Alonso not admitting his mistakes.


HAHA, you dont care about anything!! Even the problem admitted by the technical director you will still claim it as excuses!! Give him a break, he got 9 races left!! you can criticize all you want at the end of the season!!





#167 DarkknightRises

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 10:37

I highly doubt that in fact had Kimi qualified it in the top ten I would have been surprised, especially considering his position compared to Grosjean in what was the fastest car that weekend.

Lewis qualified that car ahead of where it should have been, just like in Valencia and Monaco and hence why he fell back but was still faster than Button.

I think you have too little appreciation of just how good the Lotus has been on tyres.



You dont gain something without losing something!! Mclaren is poles machine, results in overheating and degrade tyre faster than lotus and rbr and even ferrari!! Lotus can run longer on the tyres, due to its gentleness, it will nvr clinch poles on 1 lap pace!!




#168 sailor

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 10:58

Quit the tunnel vision please. Kimi has had trouble adjusting to certain things, whether that be generating the necessary heat in the tyres, steering issues, suspension geometries.

You hardly hear drivers like Schumacher (1st career), Alonso and Hamilton having such issues. They just get in the car and get on with business.


As much as I like Kimi , I have to agree with this conclusion.
Kimi is quite weak in adapting but bloody fast when the car comes back to him.

So I never compare him to the other top dogs who are fast as well as adaptable.

I think its not a matter of who is faster between Kimi and Ham / Alonso
rather that they belong to different categories and best in their respective ones.


#169 Ferrari2183

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 11:00

You dont gain something without losing something!! Mclaren is poles machine, results in overheating and degrade tyre faster than lotus and rbr and even ferrari!! Lotus can run longer on the tyres, due to its gentleness, it will nvr clinch poles on 1 lap pace!!

It is not just about poles. It is about getting the car in a decent enough position in qualifying to take advantage of the race pace.

Edited by Ferrari2183, 24 August 2012 - 11:02.


#170 Ferrari2183

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 11:01

As much as I like Kimi , I have to agree with this conclusion.
Kimi is quite weak in adapting but bloody fast when the car comes back to him.

So I never compare him to the other top dogs who are fast as well as adaptable.

I think its not a matter of who is faster between Kimi and Ham / Alonso
rather that they belong to different categories and best in their respective ones.

:up: :up: :up:

#171 DarkknightRises

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 11:09

As much as I like Kimi , I have to agree with this conclusion.
Kimi is quite weak in adapting but bloody fast when the car comes back to him.

So I never compare him to the other top dogs who are fast as well as adaptable.

I think its not a matter of who is faster between Kimi and Ham / Alonso
rather that they belong to different categories and best in their respective ones.


I remember alonso struggle in his first year with ferrari and results in losing too much points and eventually lose the lead in WDC !!

I also remember Lewis struggle in 2011 throughout the years!!

Kimi comin back from 2 years, its understandable he struggle abit in qualifying, but he has been absolutely mega in race!!

Like you said, once he adapt he will be fast like hell, just like his mclaren years when he spent 5 years with the team!!




#172 Trust

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 11:15

I highly doubt that in fact had Kimi qualified it in the top ten I would have been surprised, especially considering his position compared to Grosjean in what was the fastest car that weekend.

Lewis qualified that car ahead of where it should have been, just like in Valencia and Monaco and hence why he fell back but was still faster than Button.

I think you have too little appreciation of just how good the Lotus has been on tyres.

Or he underperformed in race? Still, Button is not a yard stick(and he also has problem with managing tyres), because Lewis is much superior on pure pace in comparison.

What if Kimi puts that car in the races where it doesn't belong?


In other words, what are those thing that makes your car in qualifying faster by at least 0.5 second but in race a lot slower than the guys behind? Did he we ever have this kind of sitation in recent history? I blame drivers of McLaren for not making the maximum potential in the race.

#173 korzeniow

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 11:23

I remember alonso struggle in his first year with ferrari and results in losing too much points and eventually lose the lead in WDC !!

I also remember Lewis struggle in 2011 throughout the years!!

Kimi comin back from 2 years, its understandable he struggle abit in qualifying, but he has been absolutely mega in race!!

Like you said, once he adapt he will be fast like hell, just like his mclaren years when he spent 5 years with the team!!


Could you precisize on this 'once'. Many people say Kimi should be given time, but not everyone says how much

#174 DarkknightRises

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 11:44

Could you precisize on this 'once'. Many people say Kimi should be given time, but not everyone says how much


he already in the "zone" during the race~~~ and he had shown pace in qualifying just that he needs to avoid mistakes in Q3!!

well, you will witness it in Spa!!


Edited by DarkknightRises, 24 August 2012 - 11:45.


#175 Wander

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 11:49

Could you precisize on this 'once'. Many people say Kimi should be given time, but not everyone says how much


Well, I, as a fan, was willing to give him half a season at the beginning of the year so starting from Hungary, I expected him to be at the top of his game. So far I'm pleased.

#176 sailor

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 11:55

Just remembered that Kimi went to Nascar Truck for a race or two.

Did Kimi actually beat PJ in his own series by any chance?

#177 artista

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 12:00

Just remembered that Kimi went to Nascar Truck for a race or two.

Did Kimi actually beat PJ in his own series by any chance?

He did. It's true that Piquet was unfortunate at the end of the race, but Räikkönen did finish in front of him

#178 sailor

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 12:14

He did. It's true that Piquet was unfortunate at the end of the race, but Räikkönen did finish in front of him


Wow ! Could that be the reason to mouth off ? Doubt it though

Although - reading his comments again it doesn't seem that he is bashing Kimi as much as he is bashing Grosjean.

Edited by sailor, 24 August 2012 - 12:15.


#179 gm914

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 12:14

Just remembered that Kimi went to Nascar Truck for a race or two.

Did Kimi actually beat PJ in his own series by any chance?

Yes. Piquet had been running top 10 all day, and was in 7th with 3 laps to go.
Kimi, although a valiant effort, qualified 31st and barely ran in the top 20 all day.

If I remember correctly, Kimi was blown away at the fact these guys run 3 practice sessions, a Quali session and the race on the same day!
Was a good race. I was cheering for him to crack the top 15.
Here's a vid.
Last 3 laps.


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#180 sailor

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 12:17

Yes. Piquet had been running top 10 all day, and was in 7th with 3 laps to go.
Kimi, although a valiant effort, qualified 31st and barely ran in the top 20 all day.

If I remember correctly, Kimi was blown away at the fact these guys run 3 practice sessions, a Quali session and the race on the same day!
Was a good race. I was cheering for him to crack the top 15.
Here's a vid.
Last 3 laps.


Thanks mate. Had missed this one.

Great vid too. Actually Truck racing doesn't look half bad.

#181 gm914

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 12:24

Thanks mate. Had missed this one.

Great vid too. Actually Truck racing doesn't look half bad.

The NCWTS is one of the most exciting race series I've seen, no kidding. The racing this year has been epic.
If only people got over their F1 elitist attitude, they'd probably become fans.

I laugh every weekend when me and the NASCAR guys on here are enjoying three fantastic races, but look at the other threads to see "motorsport fans" sitting in front of their computers whining and crying about so-and-so F1 driver.
Come to the NASCAR thread if you seriously want to watch and I'll hook you up with streams. :)

EDIT: just a note, though. We don't do hate or fanboy wars, and we respect pretty much everyone out there racing.
It's a novel concept.

Edited by gm914, 24 August 2012 - 12:43.


#182 Kvothe

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 12:49

Or he underperformed in race? Still, Button is not a yard stick(and he also has problem with managing tyres), because Lewis is much superior on pure pace in comparison.

What if Kimi puts that car in the races where it doesn't belong?


In other words, what are those thing that makes your car in qualifying faster by at least 0.5 second but in race a lot slower than the guys behind? Did he we ever have this kind of sitation in recent history? I blame drivers of McLaren for not making the maximum potential in the race.


Outperforming the car?

Raikkonen: I should have won by now

Edited by Kvothe, 24 August 2012 - 12:49.


#183 Kvothe

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 12:57

You dont gain something without losing something!! Mclaren is poles machine, results in overheating and degrade tyre faster than lotus and rbr and even ferrari!! Lotus can run longer on the tyres, due to its gentleness, it will nvr clinch poles on 1 lap pace!!


Yet even when you include Spain McLaren only has the amount of pole positions Red Bull has?

Mercedes have come out and said there engine is harder on tyres, hence both McLaren and Mercedes (also ddrs) disparity between qualifying and race pace
http://thef1times.co...s/display/06576

the Renault engine cuts its cylinders by eight to four which aides traction out of slow corners and reduces tyre wear.
http://www.thef1time...s/display/05630

Furthermore Raikkonen is being outqualified by a rookie, whose raw pace and race pace is probably still developing and who has managed to qualify it near the front of the grid numerous times.

The point is neither driver is yet at their best, or their prime and so by consequence the potential of the car is not yet fully tapped.

Imagine if Hamilton Alonso or Vettel was in it and not merely two drivers who were beaten by Alonso and Massa.


#184 artista

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 12:57

Thanks mate. Had missed this one.

Great vid too. Actually Truck racing doesn't look half bad.

It is actually a lot of fun. I got addicted :lol:

EDIT: just a note, though. We don't do hate or fanboy wars, and we respect pretty much everyone out there racing.
It's a novel concept.

I have to say that's absolutely true and it's really refreshing. I suppose that's one of the reasons why I read you guys every weekend

#185 korzeniow

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 13:02

Imagine if Hamilton Alonso or Vettel was in it and not merely two drivers who were beaten by Alonso and Massa.


I'm always imagining Kubica in E20, and that ends up in him being WDC

#186 sailor

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 13:08

The NCWTS is one of the most exciting race series I've seen, no kidding. The racing this year has been epic.
If only people got over their F1 elitist attitude, they'd probably become fans.

I laugh every weekend when me and the NASCAR guys on here are enjoying three fantastic races, but look at the other threads to see "motorsport fans" sitting in front of their computers whining and crying about so-and-so F1 driver.
Come to the NASCAR thread if you seriously want to watch and I'll hook you up with streams. :)

EDIT: just a note, though. We don't do hate or fanboy wars, and we respect pretty much everyone out there racing.
It's a novel concept.


Will surely drop by and watch the whole race rather than bits.

About your EDIT - How does that work then ? :) No name calling and bashing on drivers who crashed into their faves. Indeed a novel concept!!

#187 Kvothe

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 13:11

I'm always imagining Kubica in E20, and that ends up in him being WDC


Where would you see him after 11 races?

#188 Watkins74

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 13:18

Will surely drop by and watch the whole race rather than bits.

About your EDIT - How does that work then ? :) No name calling and bashing on drivers who crashed into their faves. Indeed a novel concept!!

It really is the friendliest thread on the board in my opinion. Every now and then someone will show up to bash NASCAR but we just ignore them and surprise, surprise they just leave.

Also there is a bunch of Montoya fans so we have been humbled over the last few years. :D

#189 korzeniow

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 13:22

Where would you see him after 11 races?


Leading the championship.

#190 MadYarpen

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 13:23

Where would you see him after 11 races?

Not far behind Alonso at this point. Just an opinion.

#191 Trust

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 13:26

I'm always imagining Kubica in E20, and that ends up in him being WDC

I'm also imagining Heidfeld in the same car being 20-30 points ahead of Kubica.

#192 gm914

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 13:29

It is actually a lot of fun. I got addicted :lol:

I have to say that's absolutely true and it's really refreshing. I suppose that's one of the reasons why I read you guys every weekend

:up:

#193 Trust

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 13:32

Outperforming the car?

Raikkonen: I should have won by now

Of course he should have won, there is nothing wrong for that. But is he guilty that Hungaroring is a track where you can't overtake?
Kimi is a honest guy, he always admits his mistakes. But Hamilton has history of making lies, why would he blame his talent for Bahrain fiasco? It's easier to downplay the car. Once more time, Button is not a yard stick, I really don't rate him that high. Grosjean on pure pace would similarly dominate him.

The thing is, you put your car on pole by more than 0.5 second. And then you lose about 1 second of that pace in the race. Going by your logic, that must be on drivers shoulders, because they can't put the tyres into right operating window in the race.

Edited by Trust, 24 August 2012 - 13:32.


#194 DarkknightRises

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 13:55

Yet even when you include Spain McLaren only has the amount of pole positions Red Bull has?

Mercedes have come out and said there engine is harder on tyres, hence both McLaren and Mercedes (also ddrs) disparity between qualifying and race pace
http://thef1times.co...s/display/06576

the Renault engine cuts its cylinders by eight to four which aides traction out of slow corners and reduces tyre wear.
http://www.thef1time...s/display/05630

Furthermore Raikkonen is being outqualified by a rookie, whose raw pace and race pace is probably still developing and who has managed to qualify it near the front of the grid numerous times.

The point is neither driver is yet at their best, or their prime and so by consequence the potential of the car is not yet fully tapped.

Imagine if Hamilton Alonso or Vettel was in it and not merely two drivers who were beaten by Alonso and Massa.


Hamilton and vettel aint even dominating the field with their car that was always in fight for the wins!!! Imagine my arse~~



#195 DarkknightRises

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 13:55

Not far behind Alonso at this point. Just an opinion.


How would you know?? Pure BS !!


#196 DarkknightRises

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 13:58

Judging the aero package of each team, clearly mclaren and rbr hv the upper hand!!

Especially rbr, that seems to be the best all rounder!!
while mclaren duo failed to capitalize the race pace of their car!!

Whitmarsh admitted recently, they hv yet to bring out the best of their car~~~

And now we are slating the lotus duo that happen to hv a car that gentle on its tyre alone!!

#197 MadYarpen

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 14:02

How would you know?? Pure BS !!

Jesus fvck!ng christ, what part of 'this is just an opinion' you don't get? People tend to have different views, is it hurting you man?
Are you too dumb to understand, that I don't KNOW this?

Edited by MadYarpen, 24 August 2012 - 14:02.


#198 korzeniow

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 14:04

Judging the aero package of each team, clearly mclaren and rbr hv the upper hand!!

Especially rbr, that seems to be the best all rounder!!
while mclaren duo failed to capitalize the race pace of their car!!

Whitmarsh admitted recently, they hv yet to bring out the best of their car~~~

And now we are slating the lotus duo that happen to hv a car that gentle on its tyre alone!!


Show me examples of McLaren's oustanding race pace, please. I can give you plenty examples of Lotus while not thinking even for a minute

#199 DarkknightRises

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 14:06

Show me examples of McLaren's oustanding race pace, please. I can give you plenty examples of Lotus while not thinking even for a minute


australia, shanghai, canada, hockeinham

they shown great pace, but lack consistency!!

http://www.planetf1....se-Our-Package-

the only race lotus shown great pace was bahrain and hungary!! no more than that!!

Edited by DarkknightRises, 24 August 2012 - 14:08.


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#200 Vesuvius

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 14:12

Show me examples of McLaren's oustanding race pace, please. I can give you plenty examples of Lotus while not thinking even for a minute


many experts say RBR and McLaren are the best cars and Lotus and Ferrari not far off, Lotus can be the best when they get their qualifyings work perfectly but overally RBR and McLaren are better/faster cars than Lotus now but all are very close. Lotus has mainly been outstanding on racepace but only on the final stint of the race (except bahrain,valencia and hungary) but other than that they have been on the level of other top cars.